was just going through the Hall of Fame website and realized Roger Maris isn't inducted? WTF? 'tis a shame. 
Baseball (Yanks)
- Thread starter USDevil
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USDevil said:was just going through the Hall of Fame website and realized Roger Maris is inducted? WTF? 'tis a shame.
I believe you mean that Roger Maris was NOT inducted. He did have several great seasons, winning the AL MVP in 1960 and 1961, and was one of the great defensive right fielders (check out his throw from the right field wall to keep Cepeda at third on Mays' double in the bottom of the ninth, Game 7, 1962 World Series), but his career stats weren't really that great, either for average or power. Maris was my favorite player when I started following the team, but I question whether his stats were sufficient to get him in (before the old-timers' committee takes a look).
I think the bat he used to hit #61 is in the Hall.
FresnoBob said:
Yeah you're right, mispell. Corrected.
I agree his stats are small compared to the likes of Mantle and DiMaggio, but there are far worse choice in the HoF. But if the likes of Bonds and McGwire get inducted later on, there is more than a case for Maris. 7 World Series victories and 12 pennants during his time.
USDevil said:
Oh, so he won them single-handedly did he? He had half a dozen good seasons and DOES NOT belong in the HoF
Nearco said:
No, I'm not saying that he won them by himself, but there are worse inductees in the hall. Enos Slaughter for example.
USDevil said:
Mmm maybe, Slaughter is borderline, although he was a career .300 hitter and if it hadn`t been for the war he may have had 3000 hits.
USDevil said:Yeah you're right, mispell. Corrected.
I agree his stats are small compared to the likes of Mantle and DiMaggio, but there are far worse choice in the HoF. But if the likes of Bonds and McGwire get inducted later on, there is more than a case for Maris. 7 World Series victories and 12 pennants during his time.
In 12 years total in the majors, Maris played on 7 pennant winners (back in the pre-playoff era you had to win your respective league to go to the Series). In his seven trips to the Fall Classic, his teams only won 3 times, Yanks in 1961 (best team ever?) and 1962 and the Cardinals in 1967.
Roger's significant career stats were 275 homeruns (100 in 2 seasons), only 851 RBI, and a lifetime batting average of .260. He was much better as a fielder than McGuire, Bonds, etc, but the Hall is attracted to numbers like 500 (home runs) or 300 (wins for a pitcher) as the automatic numbers for getting your ticket stamped.
Maris had two great years, not a great career. I might love the Yanks and their players, but as a fan of major league baseball I can understand his exclusion from the Hall.
Maris was an outstanding all-around athlete and still holds the US high school record for returning kickoffs for touchdowns in a game for eleven-man (gridiron) football--4.
baseball sucks.
(awaits angry response from incensed poster)
(awaits angry response from incensed poster)
alonso767 said:
Well, I'll agree that the Boston Red Sox baseball team sucks. In fact, I could probably find that about 33% of the teams in the majors suck. The game itself, however, never did any harm. and is a very nice excuse to ingest beer and hot dogs on a summer night without the wife getting b*tchy.
FresnoBob said:
Ah, sorry got some of the numbers confused. Guess it does make the arguement a little less solid. I understand about the Hall being attracted to big numbers, but look at the likes of Ryne Sandberg and Ernie Banks. Really good fielders, decent BAs and other assortments of stuff, but overall nothing outstanding.
Same thing for Lou Brock. Other than him getting over 3000 hits, do you think he would have made the HoF on his base stealing skills alone? I don't think Ricky Henderson would make it alone, but he just barely broke 3000, and he did it in his last 2-3 seasons.
I dont understand what your saying here. Lou Brock and Rickey Henderson were immense all round players. And your way off on Ernie Banks, he had 500+ home runs and a decent BA in a very pitching dominant era. His numbers today would be astronomical.
I agree with Fresno that Maris doesn't deserve to be in the HOF. I also agree with alonso that the Red Sox suck.
Ernie Banks played SS and had over 500 Home Runs. He was MVP twice, playing for a lousy team like the Cubs. He's an automatic for the HOF.
Sandberg is a closer call. He was great on defense, a 10-time All Star, stole over 300 bases and hit almost 300 Home Runs. It's close, but I would put him in.
I wouldn't put Brock in for base running, but 3,000 hits is a great achievement. He gets in pretty easy.
Ricky Henderson is automatic if he ever stops playing. He was a dominant player. He hit lost of homers and was the best base stealer of all time.
Ernie Banks played SS and had over 500 Home Runs. He was MVP twice, playing for a lousy team like the Cubs. He's an automatic for the HOF.
Sandberg is a closer call. He was great on defense, a 10-time All Star, stole over 300 bases and hit almost 300 Home Runs. It's close, but I would put him in.
I wouldn't put Brock in for base running, but 3,000 hits is a great achievement. He gets in pretty easy.
Ricky Henderson is automatic if he ever stops playing. He was a dominant player. He hit lost of homers and was the best base stealer of all time.
Nearco said:
What I mean is that some players shouldn't be in there, but are based on 1 achievement alone. Banks hit 512 homers, a .274 BA, and was a good fielder. Without 512 homers, would he have made it?
Out of roughly 3058 games, he committed 261 errors. Derek Jeter, in a hitter-dominated era, in 1900 games has committed 145 errors. Has only hit 150 homers, but has a BA of .315. Even though he's in the middle of his career, if he continues this trend, will he make the Hall for his BA only, even though his fielding errors could be worse?
I'm just thinking that even though a player is above average, he could probably get in because of his off-field demeanor too. Rose batted .303, slugging avg of .409, 4200+ hits, and he's blacklisted because he fecked up.
Was Pete Rose a hall of famer?
I remember him being chokeslammed by Kane when I was into WWF.
I remember him being chokeslammed by Kane when I was into WWF.
TheRedFlag said:
no he wasn't, he mucked up his chances by betting on and possibly fixing games.If you took away Bank's 500+ homers, then he wouldn't make it. But if you took away everybody's homers, a lot of great players woouldn't make it. Banks made the all star team 11 times and is generally considered one of the greats. And he did it as a shortstop, a position not usually reserved for terrific hitters. If you want to see a much closer call, look at Ozzie Smith. He got in primarily on defense, yet a guy like Keith Hernandez, Ozzie's equal defensively among first basemen, could also hit and didn't make it. Neither did Don Mattingly.
I think Jeter will make the hall, not just for his batting average, but because he's an excellent all-around player - defense, base running, leadership, etc.
I don't think off-field demeanor will get you in, but it can keep you out, as in Rose's case. I would put Rose in because his well-publicized problems seem to have begun after he stopped playing.
I think Jeter will make the hall, not just for his batting average, but because he's an excellent all-around player - defense, base running, leadership, etc.
I don't think off-field demeanor will get you in, but it can keep you out, as in Rose's case. I would put Rose in because his well-publicized problems seem to have begun after he stopped playing.
The fool, no wonder Kane chokeslammed him then*
* = Yes I am aware it wasn't real.
* = Yes I am aware it wasn't real.
kennyj said:
Damn, forgot all about Mattingly. In all honesty, I can't stand the Yankees, although I do have mad respect for them (my gramps has been a fan since the 50s, and has all sorts of signed memorabilia). Haven't really followed baseball the last few years being overseas and all, but I've been an Oakland fan since I was a kid, and recently a Marlins and Devil Rays fan since I'm from FL (and it's about time we got our own teams).
Being a great fielding shortstop is vastly different to being a great fielding 1st baseman. The amount of runs that Smith saved as opposed to an average SS must have been at least 30-40 a year.
As long as Gil Hodges remains not in the HoF, Roger Maris can kiss my hairy ass.
Nearco said:
What Banks and Aaron managed to do in the mid-late 1960s was simply staggering. This is an era so pitching dominant that two 30 game winners faced each other in a WS. 30 game winners? The very idea is comical today.
jasonrh said:
TheDevil'sOwn said:Word Up - and Garvey, too.
Respek.
Steve=legend.
Garvey wasn't bad either.
Do you know the Napiltonias?
TheDevil'sOwn said:
You too?
You and Suedsi are the Napiltonias and I claim my ten pounds.
Have they been arrested for mass murder or something? Why is everyone suddenly talking about them?
No.jasonrh said:You too?
You and Suedsi are the Napiltonias and I claim my ten pounds.
I just thought I'd ask it again since it was such a weird question, an' all.
What are Neopolitans?
TheDevil'sOwn said:
You know those guys?!?
They're assholes.
I think Don Sutton's Perm should be in the HOF (to get this thing back on track).
They're assholes.
I think Don Sutton's Perm should be in the HOF (to get this thing back on track).
TheDevil'sOwn said:
From your mouth to God's ears.
I thought Don Sutton's perm was in the HoF!
Hair of Fame
TheDevil'sOwn said:
Hair of Fame
That's a shit picture, though.
It's the only one of decent size, though.jasonrh said:
What happened to Kippax, btw? I'll take the short story if you have it.
TheDevil'sOwn said:
Ghosted. Still. Was on yesterday. No posts.
That's not rightjasonrh said:Ghosted. Still. Was on yesterday. No posts.
Pardon me for a sec...
Nearco said:
Explain Kirby Pucket then. You know that his stats are quite comparable to Don Mattingly, yet Donnie Baseball is missing from the Hall.
And Juicer, I mean Mark McGwire will get in, though he's the most one dimensional player I've seen. It's his homeruns and fan fare that will get him in. Though he wasn't a great player, IMO. Just hit long homeruns. I'd take Frank Thomas (though he's a 'me' player), Raffy Palmerio, Will Clark (before the elbow/back injuries; add Don M here too), and Jeff Bagwell over him anyday.
And I'm not a McGwire hater, actually liked watching him play. He's just a one dimensional player and if he had the attitude of Bonds, he wouldn't be such a fan favorite.
MrMarcello said:
It was his gigantic ass. How could you keep him out? He would just shake his booty and knock the door down.
The whole system is horribly flawed and BS. Mike Schmidt recently said Hodges shouldn't be in because "he actually wasn't that good". I wanted to punch that sorry sob's face in. And then I counted his world series rings, and felt much better.
jasonrh said:It was his gigantic ass. How could you keep him out? He would just shake his booty and knock the door down.
The whole system is horribly flawed and BS. Mike Schmidt recently said Hodges shouldn't be in because "he actually wasn't that good". I wanted to punch that sorry sob's face in. And then I counted his world series rings, and felt much better.
I never really followed Schmitty that much, but he was basically a homerun or strikeout hitter with a slick glove. Had a bad attitude supposedly. But he hit 500 homeruns back before the juice days so he was a lock for the Hall.
MrMarcello said:
Hodges had seven straight 100+ RBI seasons in an era in which he was batting in front of Duke Snider. He had 370 HR, was a consumate fielder, and took a team that Casey Stengel couldn't make win and got a WS victory in three years. And he lost three prime years to the war.
His problem is he died in 1972, and so he has slipped off the radar, and cnuts like Schmidt, who like to think they know everything because they are already in the HoF, won't go back and take a look at him.
Did Mattingley put his ten years in?
Also, none of these players can hold a candle to Josh Gibson, who with any justice in this world would have eclipsed Ruth and his records.
Also, none of these players can hold a candle to Josh Gibson, who with any justice in this world would have eclipsed Ruth and his records.
Mattinly played 13, but the last 5 or so he was bothered by a bad back. Shame about Gibson and many others.