So it's ok to drop a player because of bad form LAST SEASON...? <img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" />
other than the city game..barthez has been good this season......
if only cudicini has been better than barthez this season then i ask one question to you slaggers of Barthez:
WHO do you want playing for us? Carrol? his experience could tear us apart - how long will he last as a first teamer?, he'll need more games to do the work - and so we should keep him on the bench.
I also don't like Ricardo being here so much, i think Carrol is pretty good too. But maybe Barthez wasn't feeling the pressure from Carrol so SAF thought another keeper would do the trick. It may have IMO. Barthez has been good in most of the games this season, and most of the time too.
WHO do you want playing for us? Carrol? his experience could tear us apart - how long will he last as a first teamer?, he'll need more games to do the work - and so we should keep him on the bench.
I also don't like Ricardo being here so much, i think Carrol is pretty good too. But maybe Barthez wasn't feeling the pressure from Carrol so SAF thought another keeper would do the trick. It may have IMO. Barthez has been good in most of the games this season, and most of the time too.
Originally posted by 77:
<strong>
Your post becomes you</strong><hr></blockquote>
I know I might be wrong about Ricardo given that I've only seen him in a few games.
Don't blame him for the Haifa goals but I wasn't happy at all with the penalty. I was surprised he didn't see red and in games like that (and particularly the way it was going) you can't afford to have your keeper sent off.
It was silly and, had he been sent off we would have suffered and all on here would have a slightly different opinion of him.
I think Barthez is playing well enough to be the #1 keeper right now. I admit that he has pissed me off in the past with some of his antics. I think he's improved this season, yes he does make the occasional error but no keeper is infallible. If the question is... who is the best keeper at OT right now?, then the answer is Fab. I think he's got a better understanding with his center backs now than he ever has. I'm not sure how he'll do without Blanc infront of him right now, we'll see. I never said Fab cares about the shirt, he obviously does more than Fatnich did though and he genuinly seems to enjoy playing for United.
Fair point. I just think of him when Keano's talking about those at the club just turning up and picking up a wage. I think most of the fans know that he's taking the piss, but his reputation preceeds him, so........I'll reserve judgement until the end of the season and hope he hasn't let the shirts down.
The stats I produced showed that Barthez's record this season is pretty good. Last season Carroll's stats were better than Fabs and this season they are too, as are Ricardo's. Neithers been given the chance over a longer period of games to prove themselves, but certainly Carroll didn't deserve dropping to 3rd choice just for the Chelsea game, otherwise Barthez does for the City game.
Unfortunately after the Chelsea game Carroll went and cost us 2 points at Sunderland. IMO that mistake was worse than anything at Chelsea.
My view of Barthez is that he makes me nervous anytime the ball goes near our goal. With Schmeichel, I had so much confidence in his ability that even when the last defender was beaten, I wouldn't panic because I'd think to myself no problem Schmiks will save it - and most of the time he did (or perhaps it appears to me that he did). He had such a commanding presence in the box and the way he dominated his defenders - it gave me confidence watching him. With Barthez it's exactly the other way around. If the last defender is beaten, I expect a goal to be scored and if Barthez saves it, it's a bonus, and if he doesn't do anything crazy in a match - well, that's a bonus too. Yes, I know it's a sad way to look at things, but there you go. Sigh...
Barthez is the better keeper, end of. We should stick by him instead of debating which of our reserves should replace him.
selling Fab wouldnt make much economic or football sense. We wouldnt get as much as we paid for him and any replacement keeper (ie a keeper with the credentials to handle first-choice at OT, and there are very few out there - Casillas, Cudicini) would cost considerable more and wouldnt settle in/adjust to our defence immediately etc.
Barthez likes storming forward and playing as a sweeper quite a lot. It's such a shame he doesn't command his area with the same vigour. Having observed him over the last few weeks, I think that one of the reesons the backline are so nervous is that they defend Barthez to his 6 yard line and he's rubbish at coming off his line quickly to clear danger. Last night, Wes was shaking his head in disbelief at some of the Barthezs actions, as were other defenders on some of those corners. I don't think they know if or when he's gonna come for the ball. He's a liability and he cost us dear last year and will again. The biggest bunch of overated, overpayed shite I've seen since............
When I came with these suggestions (read Manutd defense main problem) this forum wanted to cut me in pieces.
My opinion is this Barthez is a wonderful shot stopper possibly the best in that area. But his serious lack of leadership and his runs up front is not helping much our young and far from unbeatable defense.
What Manutd needs is leader like Scmike who leads the defense rather than confuses her. Barthez is fablous in an experienced defense (like France) not in an unexperienced young one like ours
Currently we dont have a leader like that but Im sure that our scouts can find one. A person like Toldo or Buffon would do
When I came with these suggestions (read Manutd defense main problem) this forum wanted to cut me in pieces.
My opinion is this Barthez is a wonderful shot stopper possibly the best in that area. But his serious lack of leadership and his runs up front is not helping much our young and far from unbeatable defense.
What Manutd needs is leader like Scmike who leads the defense rather than confuses her. Barthez is fablous in an experienced defense (like France) not in an unexperienced young one like ours
Currently we dont have a leader like that but Im sure that our scouts can find one. A person like Toldo or Buffon would do
Barthez has failed to lead and inspire confidence in his young back four and his mistakes regularly cost the team valuable points. Unfortunately, he has become a liability, and we need to find a replacement to acheive success in an increaingly competitive league. <img src="graemlins/annoyed.gif" border="0" alt="[Annoyed]" />
Ricardo is the best keeper that we have got.
Canizares is the best in the world ATM.
Originally posted by Livvie20:
Barthez also saved us last night.<hr></blockquote>
You said it Liv
Amir you dont become a leader, you are born with it. Schmicke was a (nearly) unknown keeper when he brought at OT, but even in his first years he was able to bully Bruce and co and show them who is the boss.
We need a keeper with the same charateristics. I have pointed Toldo for various reasons
1 He is a born leader who had lead star studded defenses like that of Italy, Inter and Fiorentina
2 He has the same charateristics of Schmicke
Of coarse there are many more
We need a keeper with the same charateristics. I have pointed Toldo for various reasons
1 He is a born leader who had lead star studded defenses like that of Italy, Inter and Fiorentina
2 He has the same charateristics of Schmicke
Of coarse there are many more
Worse than all his bad points regarding his trade, the fact that he just doesn't care is the thing that really riles me. If we gave Carrol a chance, at least it would mean something and he WOULD care about the shirt. Barthez has lost his hunger and is sanitised by success in the cozy arena of French football. He's not a red and never will be. Sell him in Jan before he costs us more than silverware. How many times have you seen him interact with the fans? Or give interviews to local stations? The only time he speaks to the press is in L'equipe. He is the epitomy of what needs to be put right at OT. People don't doubt him cos he's won what he's won, but that's in the past and I could've kept goal for France in the WC98 and EC2002 with a defence of that quality.
No doubt devilish, but it doesn't matter who you bring and what he's done elsewhere - You never know how he'd do at Old Trafford. Just like Massimo Taibi, a decent goalkeeper, found himself out of his depth, so can a goalkeeping leader elsewhere find himself totally silenced at United.
Barthez is fine for me. I don't see anyone better for us despite what people say. And people who blame him for all three goals against Newcastle should honestly set themselves decent standarts. I can see even the great Schmeichel conceding each of those three goals.
Barthez is fine for me. I don't see anyone better for us despite what people say. And people who blame him for all three goals against Newcastle should honestly set themselves decent standarts. I can see even the great Schmeichel conceding each of those three goals.
Pls Amir dont compare Toldo to Taibi.
Toldo is (or should be) Italy's no 1, with loads of experience both Nationally and Internationally. He had been Euro 2000 best keeper and is regarding as one of the finest keepers in the world.
Taibi is a provincial fool who was lucky enough to have two big occassions in his life (AC MILAN AND MANUTD whom he bought failed) he may do fairly well with little teams but will crumble under the pressure of big clubs. Manutd should have known that before bringing this buffoon to OT.
I disagree with ppl who slagger Barthez. He is a fabulous keeper but hes not what Manutd needs.
Toldo is (or should be) Italy's no 1, with loads of experience both Nationally and Internationally. He had been Euro 2000 best keeper and is regarding as one of the finest keepers in the world.
Taibi is a provincial fool who was lucky enough to have two big occassions in his life (AC MILAN AND MANUTD whom he bought failed) he may do fairly well with little teams but will crumble under the pressure of big clubs. Manutd should have known that before bringing this buffoon to OT.
I disagree with ppl who slagger Barthez. He is a fabulous keeper but hes not what Manutd needs.
at the end of the day..if you were given a choice of swapping bartex with any keeper of your choice would you choose to swap YES or NO i think 90% would be able to think of someone theyd rather have between the sticks..
and id say if you say no your a liar or have no cklue about football what so ever
personally i think schmikes could STILL do a better job than our french clown
and id say if you say no your a liar or have no cklue about football what so ever
personally i think schmikes could STILL do a better job than our french clown
Originally posted by Ronnie:
<strong>Worse than all his bad points regarding his trade, the fact that he just doesn't care is the thing that really riles me. If we gave Carrol a chance, at least it would mean something and he WOULD care about the shirt. Barthez has lost his hunger and is sanitised by success in the cozy arena of French football. He's not a red and never will be. Sell him in Jan before he costs us more than silverware. How many times have you seen him interact with the fans? Or give interviews to local stations? The only time he speaks to the press is in L'equipe. He is the epitomy of what needs to be put right at OT. People don't doubt him cos he's won what he's won, but that's in the past and I could've kept goal for France in the WC98 and EC2002 with a defence of that quality.</strong><hr></blockquote>
feck OFF and go to hell. So you could have kept goal for France in the WC98 and EC2002. Who are you to say that, jealous loser ? What have you achieved in football ?
So would have saved that penalty against Italy ? You would have saved that Ronaldo shot during the final, jumped over him ? You would have made crucial saves in every Euro 2000 games (that miraculous Abel Xavier header for example ?). And to qualify for Euro 2000 you would have made that great save against Chesnokov ? In France we know what we owe him and he's rated at his worth. He often gets very good marks, and wouldn't get them by doing nothing behind his line.
If he refuses to speak to the local press and English press in geeral it's because everything he says is distorted by your wonderful tabloids.
To say he has lost his hunger is completely stupid too. He lives for football, the place where he is the happier is on the pitch. How do you dare to say he doesn't care ? Of course he cares. He was fined last year after the Leverkusen game, he had broken a pane or something because he was too disappointed. And he salutes the fans at each game.
Fab has been good this season in many games, until the City game where he wasn't at fault anyway. And even last Wednesday he was very good, particularly on the free kick and with his reflex save after the pause.
I can't believe the way you deny him any quality, you just digust me.
You can`t discuss how good or not a goakeeper is without looking at the defence he plays behind, too.
Manchester United`s defence has been remarkably inconsistent for a year and a half, owing to the initial disruption caused by selling Jaap. It is clear that Jaap`s being shipped out was not a pre-meditated action, but because of the book, given the timing and the way it had a bad effect on MU`s play.
Given the shakiness of the MU defence compared to previous seasons when silverware was won, Fabian Barthez has performed well. Sure, the man seems a few croissants short of a picnic, but his eccentricity and energy help the team more often than not.
We should also never forget that Barthez has that irreplaceable quality - experience as a winner at the highest level in world football. You cannot begin to calculate just how much worth it is having the experience that goes with a World Cup Winner`s medal and a European Championship medal.
That gives him the edge in any number of situations, especially pressure situations, and I for one think Fab is a great man to have on our side.
<img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" />
Manchester United`s defence has been remarkably inconsistent for a year and a half, owing to the initial disruption caused by selling Jaap. It is clear that Jaap`s being shipped out was not a pre-meditated action, but because of the book, given the timing and the way it had a bad effect on MU`s play.
Given the shakiness of the MU defence compared to previous seasons when silverware was won, Fabian Barthez has performed well. Sure, the man seems a few croissants short of a picnic, but his eccentricity and energy help the team more often than not.
We should also never forget that Barthez has that irreplaceable quality - experience as a winner at the highest level in world football. You cannot begin to calculate just how much worth it is having the experience that goes with a World Cup Winner`s medal and a European Championship medal.
That gives him the edge in any number of situations, especially pressure situations, and I for one think Fab is a great man to have on our side.
<img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" />
Oh, and Barthez is not a scumbag with openly fascist sympathies running around wearing racist T shirts on TV shows and in photographs, and deciding to adopt a number with fascist meaning for his football kit. Unlike The Buffoon. Some leadership, that.
I think we need a safer keeper, I also think that Ricardo was a unneccessary waste of money and Roy Carroll was unfairly dropped, he has done NOTHING wrong and looks to me to be far safer than the other 2! His only weakness seems to be the odd cross and from what ive seen and heard Ricardo doesnt like crosses either!