Barcelona: Charged with corruption .... again!

Ragnar123 said:
And you make this assumption based on what exactly? Some rival forum opinion? Top players still don't think twice when Laporta and Xavi call. Some even accept lower wage offers to be able to play here. So far, we got nearly every transfer target we had. And we kept our young talents. Araujo turned down offers worth €3m a year more to stay. Gavi could join any club he wanted with his €50m release clause and he still wants to extend. Pedri extended for €6m, I'm pretty sure he had better offers on the table. Dembele had a take it or leave it offer and he took it.
So players still want to come and to stay. Let's go further.
What about fans and sponsors. We had recently 83.000 fans in a friendly game. Many of them tourists who payed a lot of money for tickets and kits. Lewandowski's shirt was sold out during the Gamper trophy. Seems like people still want to go to the "Spotify" Camp Nou and spend their money on a joke club. On Social Media platforms we are still a, if not the leading football club. The fact that our digital Studios are worth €400m, shows a big worldwide digital interest in Barcelona.
That leaves us with sponsors then? Spotify pays €70m a year, which will increase considerably with the new stadium, to a massively damaged reputation? That's quite a take you have there. A new arm sleeve sponsor will also pay double as Beko did in recent years. All facts of a damaged reputation, I see.

If I think about it, you are completely right.
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All those numbers are meaningless if you've sold all future incomes to fund the next couple of transfer windows.

Barca could have kept the squad you have this season, supplemented it with a couple of talented youngsters from the academy and rode out the next couple of years while reestablishing your finances. All that you've written above would still be true and you'd be looking at a bright future having not sold your soul.

Instead, ye have turned your back on the culture of your club - preferring instead to mortgage your future existence in the pursuit of short term galactico success.
 
Ragnar123 said:





he did nothing wrong? This is a joke right? Catalan media write that barca has some good offers for him, but he blocks them all. Not only wants he his letter of freedom, he also wants all his wages of the two remaining years upfront. So take all the remaining money, leave for free and get a big wage because of it at a new club. Get double payed so to speak. If that is not brazen, I don't know what is. Culers have the right to express their feelings towards his behaviour, because he lives on their money.
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Only culo'....ehh culers believe the barca media propaganda. If anything Barca should ask Martin to teach them how to make money.
 
HTG said:
I mean how dare he to expect his club to honour the contract they both signed. What an asshole.
Barca fans who buy into this rhetoric disgust me.
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Agreed entirely. Complete detachment from reality and business ethics.
 
I still don't understand why they won't just pay what they owe their players so they can sell them on. In the grand scheme of things, it isn't that much money. They owe FDJ what, €17m? And presumably they owe less to everyone else. At the end of the day, I doubt it's even €50m in total. Instead they risk losing these players for free if taken to court, they're destroying their reputation as a club, and they're surely making at least some players think twice about signing for Barcelona in the future. Even with their currently encumbered finances, the money they owe in deferred wages is a small fraction of their annual revenue. They've spent like five times that amount on transfers this summer. It's not like they don't have the money. They're raking in hundreds of millions selling assets and whatnot.

Even if they should somehow manage to scam these players out of what they're owed, it's not all that much money and it'll forever tarnish the club's name. I can't see how it could possibly be worthwhile. Either they pay up in the end anyway and look like idiots for pissing about, or they defraud their players and become the most hated club in football for the sake of a sum that represents maybe 10% of one year's revenue. Nothing about what they're doing lately makes any sense. I don't see any way this farce can possibly be a winning move for them.
 
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Ragnar123 said:
And you make this assumption based on what exactly? Some rival forum opinion? Top players still don't think twice when Laporta and Xavi call. Some even accept lower wage offers to be able to play here. So far, we got nearly every transfer target we had. And we kept our young talents. Araujo turned down offers worth €3m a year more to stay. Gavi could join any club he wanted with his €50m release clause and he still wants to extend. Pedri extended for €6m, I'm pretty sure he had better offers on the table. Dembele had a take it or leave it offer and he took it.
So players still want to come and to stay. Let's go further.
What about fans and sponsors. We had recently 83.000 fans in a friendly game. Many of them tourists who payed a lot of money for tickets and kits. Lewandowski's shirt was sold out during the Gamper trophy. Seems like people still want to go to the "Spotify" Camp Nou and spend their money on a joke club. On Social Media platforms we are still a, if not the leading football club. The fact that our digital Studios are worth €400m, shows a big worldwide digital interest in Barcelona.
That leaves us with sponsors then? Spotify pays €70m a year, which will increase considerably with the new stadium, to a massively damaged reputation? That's quite a take you have there. A new arm sleeve sponsor will also pay double as Beko did in recent years. All facts of a damaged reputation, I see.

If I think about it, you are completely right.
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Honest question - how old are you?
 
Dansk said:
I still don't understand why they won't just pay what they owe their players so they can sell them on. In the grand scheme of things, it isn't that much money. They owe FDJ what, €17m? And presumably they owe less to everyone else. At the end of the day, I doubt it's even €50m in total. Instead they risk losing these players for free if taken to court, they're destroying their reputation as a club, and they're surely making at least some players think twice about signing for Barcelona in the future. Even with their currently encumbered finances, the money they owe in deferred wages is a small fraction of their annual revenue. They've spent like five times that amount on transfers this summer. It's not like they don't have the money. They're raking in hundreds of millions selling assets and whatnot.
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They probably can't without straying further away from their financial objectives allowing them to register the new signings. Paying anticipated wages do not reduce the wage bill.
 
antk said:
They probably can't without straying further away from their financial objectives allowing them to register the new signings. Paying anticipated wages do not reduce the wage bill.
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And yet the clock is very much ticking with regards to selling FDJ, and with all this talk of taking things to court, it seems increasingly likely that they won't get to sell him this summer. He probably won't leave until he gets his money back, and he appears to be willing to stay if that's what it takes. They could pay him his €17m and sell him for €75m or something like that. I can't see any world where their ridiculous talk of keeping the deferred money due to criminal activity by the previous administration will hold up in any sort of court, so what do they really stand to gain here?
 
Ragnar123 said:
he did nothing wrong? This is a joke right? Catalan media write that barca has some good offers for him, but he blocks them all. Not only wants he his letter of freedom, he also wants all his wages of the two remaining years upfront. So take all the remaining money, leave for free and get a big wage because of it at a new club. Get double payed so to speak. If that is not brazen, I don't know what is. Culers have the right to express their feelings towards his behaviour, because he lives on their money.
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You are right, Barca fans have right to express their feelings.
But Braithwaite also has the right to reject any offers and stay in Barca.
It's irritating for fans, but club gave him the contract and must honor it.

Genuinely asking, what good offer did Braithwaite got that he rejected?
What You or Barca thinks is a good, is probably not so good for him. Perhaps he doesn't want to move to another city or country, perhaps it's financial reason.
 
Ragnar123 said:
And you make this assumption based on what exactly? Some rival forum opinion? Top players still don't think twice when Laporta and Xavi call. Some even accept lower wage offers to be able to play here. So far, we got nearly every transfer target we had.
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"Nearly" is important here since you missed your bigget target in Haaland :lol: Lewa is fine but it only buys you 2 years or so.
 
Ragnar123 said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_Gamper_Trophy

As you can see, 83.000 is a very good number, especially considering the opponent. In the last 10 years, only Arsenal and Roma attracted more fans. And Roma 2015 was the triple MSN year. Also I don't think they all visited the Camp Nou to say farewell to Alves. They wanted to see the new stars. Lewy, Raphina, Kounde. There is a spirit of optimism, especially after the horrendous last year's performance.
Barca earned nearly €3m in tickets just for a friendly match. It's clear how much the club's revenue depends on tourism.
Will the investements in new stars pay off in the end? Who can say. For that, we need to wait at least a year.
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Those are not the average attendance numbers I asked for.
 
Ragnar123 said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_Gamper_Trophy

As you can see, 83.000 is a very good number, especially considering the opponent. In the last 10 years, only Arsenal and Roma attracted more fans. And Roma 2015 was the triple MSN year. Also I don't think they all visited the Camp Nou to say farewell to Alves. They wanted to see the new stars. Lewy, Raphina, Kounde. There is a spirit of optimism, especially after the horrendous last year's performance.
Barca earned nearly €3m in tickets just for a friendly match. It's clear how much the club's revenue depends on tourism.
Will the investements in new stars pay off in the end? Who can say. For that, we need to wait at least a year.
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It is a very interesting scenario and as you you say it will likely be a year before we know if the massive gamble has payed off or not. I do follow that tourism & big crowds are contingent on the club having success. The plan may just work ! Its gonna be fun to watch.!!
 
Barca fans making Braithwaite a villain after they had to sign him in an emergency outside the window is hilarious.

He has every right to remain at Barca and demand his money.
 
I think Braithwaite could be an interesting signing at zero cost. No kidding. He is very good physically, he is a good finisher and earn very little.
Raúl de Tomás and Umar Sadiq would be good choices as well.
 
What an absolute car crash. Many folks (including me) said that the UNICEF shirt deal was the start of a trend that saw them chase money and never be able to catch up.

They’ve now sold their sleeve, chest, stadium, future, and soul to stay afloat.

I hope they go full Juve/Rangers.

Garbage club, top to bottom. Loved the Rijkaard/Ronaldinho period. Hated them since.
 
Berbasbullet said:
Barca fans making Braithwaite a villain after they had to sign him in an emergency outside the window is hilarious.

He has every right to remain at Barca and demand his money.
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He has, but so do the fans to express their feelings. I can't repeat it often enough.
Why is everybody only highlighting the player rights, but not those of the fans. The actual people who pay the money? Where does it come from, the urge to protect
multimillionaires and deny the paying people to express themselves? Is this common in the premier league? An honest question, because in LaLiga, every team respects the opinion of it's fans, because in the end, they are the main and only reason we have this form of entertainment.
 
Ragnar123 said:
He has, but so do the fans to express their feelings. I can't repeat it often enough.
Why is everybody only highlighting the player rights, but not those of the fans. The actual people who pay the money? Where does it come from, the urge to protect
multimillionaires and deny the paying people to express themselves? Is this common in the premier league? An honest question, because in LaLiga, every team respects the opinion of it's fans, because in the end, they are the main and only reason we have this form of entertainment.
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You shouldn't direct your ire at the player. He signed a contract the club offered him. If you have an issue with that take it up with the people who offered him the contract.
 
Ragnar123 said:
He has, but so do the fans to express their feelings. I can't repeat it often enough.
Why is everybody only highlighting the player rights, but not those of the fans. The actual people who pay the money? Where does it come from, the urge to protect
multimillionaires and deny the paying people to express themselves? Is this common in the premier league? An honest question, because in LaLiga, every team respects the opinion of it's fans, because in the end, they are the main and only reason we have this form of entertainment.
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These players are mainly paid by TV ad, sponsors and with prize money. If we are being real for one second Barcelona fans do not pay the players, they have no more rights to expess their discontent toward a player wage than the vast majority of neutral observers of La Liga and CL games.
 
Maagge said:
You shouldn't direct your ire at the player. He signed a contract the club offered him. If you have an issue with that take it up with the people who offered him the contract.
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That's exactly the point. Usually fans direct their ire for stupid contracts against the management who offered it, only in Barca's case the fans seem to be enjoying harassing their players who only did what everyone would and should do - try to negotiate the best possible working contract.
 
JPRouve said:
These players are mainly paid by TV ad, sponsors and with prize money. If we are being real for one second Barcelona fans do not pay the players, they have no more rights to expess their discontent toward a player wage than the vast majority of neutral observers of La Liga and CL games.
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To be fair that money only flows because there are fans interested in the club. It isn't a direct cash flow apart from ticket and merchandise income, but nonetheless it depends on the fans.
 
Ragnar123 said:
He has, but so do the fans to express their feelings. I can't repeat it often enough.
Why is everybody only highlighting the player rights, but not those of the fans. The actual people who pay the money? Where does it come from, the urge to protect
multimillionaires and deny the paying people to express themselves? Is this common in the premier league? An honest question, because in LaLiga, every team respects the opinion of it's fans, because in the end, they are the main and only reason we have this form of entertainment.
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Of course you have a right to boo players, but you are choosing probably the worst target for the worst reason.

Your management is responsible for your financial situation and the president is elected by yourself. So instead of taking it up with this guy, who just signed half a starting line-up of new players, and his predecessor (where Barca fans conveniently ignore, that they elected him as well), you are angry at a fringe player, who never did anything wrong. A player, who is overall on relative small wages (compared to the overall Barca payroll), who doesn't want to move to Saudi Arabia. All of that based on extremely questionable media reports. If you want to blame players for accepting big wages (:lol:), at least have the balls to boo the big shots. Obviously nobody can stop you, but its just pathetic.
 
Ragnar123 said:
He has, but so do the fans to express their feelings. I can't repeat it often enough.
Why is everybody only highlighting the player rights, but not those of the fans. The actual people who pay the money? Where does it come from, the urge to protect
multimillionaires and deny the paying people to express themselves? Is this common in the premier league? An honest question, because in LaLiga, every team respects the opinion of it's fans, because in the end, they are the main and only reason we have this form of entertainment.
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Some of the stuff you say is sensible and then some of the stuff that you say is utterly mental. You don't have the right to boo a player who has done nothing wrong, always shown up and done his best. No team in England would do this to a player. In fact I don't think I have seen a reaction like that to a player who has behaved like a bit of an idiot. That was the reaction that Zouma got for being a cat kicking piece of shit.

How you can defend your fans behaving like this is beyond me.

This truly is the sort of shit that makes players not want to come to a club. Will you all boo Frenkie if he doesn't bend over for you as well and leave meekly?
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
What an absolute car crash. Many folks (including me) said that the UNICEF shirt deal was the start of a trend that saw them chase money and never be able to catch up.

They’ve now sold their sleeve, chest, stadium, future, and soul to stay afloat.

I hope they go full Juve/Rangers.

Garbage club, top to bottom. Loved the Rijkaard/Ronaldinho period. Hated them since.
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Juve is a different situation as they got relegated by the league for the Calciopoli scandal. They got promoted straight away and won the title for a record 9 times in a row just 4 years after getting relegated and weren't financially ruined (although you can question some of their finances at times still)

Barca deserve to go full blown Rangers and get demoted to the lowest league and take a decade to get back and challenge for the title again
 
Ragnar123 said:
He has, but so do the fans to express their feelings. I can't repeat it often enough.
Why is everybody only highlighting the player rights, but not those of the fans. The actual people who pay the money? Where does it come from, the urge to protect
multimillionaires and deny the paying people to express themselves? Is this common in the premier league? An honest question, because in LaLiga, every team respects the opinion of it's fans, because in the end, they are the main and only reason we have this form of entertainment.
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Course they can express themselves, and the rest of us have a right to express ourselves and say you guys are acting like spoilt babies.

Booing someone out of the club is a pretty terrible look lets be honest.
 
stefan92 said:
To be fair that money only flows because there are fans interested in the club. It isn't a direct cash flow apart from ticket and merchandise income, but nonetheless it depends on the fans.
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Not exactly. The money flows because there are viewers, the vast majority aren't fans. The point being that you and I contribute similarly to Barcelona's players wages.
 
Ragnar123 said:
He has, but so do the fans to express their feelings. I can't repeat it often enough.
Why is everybody only highlighting the player rights, but not those of the fans. The actual people who pay the money? Where does it come from, the urge to protect
multimillionaires and deny the paying people to express themselves? Is this common in the premier league? An honest question, because in LaLiga, every team respects the opinion of it's fans, because in the end, they are the main and only reason we have this form of entertainment.
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Barcelona: "Hey player, you're an amazing footballer and coveted by all of the big teams in Europe, and we want you at Barcelona, here's a totally legitimate contract for millions upon millions. Sign with us and not with any of those other clubs and its all yours. You get to live in Barcelona too, and play for Barcelona. You truly will be blessed."
Player: "Oh my Lord what an amazing opportunity and an amazing sum of money you are going to legally owe me. I surely will sign this legally binding contract with Barcelona and not another club who is offering less. #Blessed"

signs da ting

Barcelona: "Hey dude, here's the thing. We can't actually pay you what we said right now because of Covid. We're barely holding on, despite being one of the biggest clubs in the world we need you to take a pay cut. Times are hard, but we all need to do our bit. For the good of the club. But we can totally pay you in 18 months, 100%, pinky swear. Remember, Mes Que Un Club."
Player: "Oh, well I guess I could help out. Times are hard after all and everyone needs to do their part."

Player defers wages, 18 months later

Barcelona: "Yeaaaah, here's the thing... our finances are a sham, you're gonna have to resign the contract cos we haven't got the money to pay you. Take a lower wage or Barcelona is going to die. Also, we want to make a bunch of expensive new signings and you're kinda stopping us doing that with your ridiculous wages. Mes Que Un Club."
Player: "Uhm, no sorry it's 18 months later and the deferred wages are now owed, please pay them as promised."

Barcelona: "Listen here you little s***, we love you but you're gonna make the club die, just take less money or we'll take you to court, but bleed for the badge cos Mes Que Un Club, but stop being selfish, we need shiny new things, you're not flavour of the month, SIGN THE NEW CONTRACT or we'll see you in court, we love you, Mes Que Un CLub"

Player: "fk you, pay me"
Barcelona fans: "What a toxic player. Boooooo, get out of the club."
 
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Salford_Red83 said:
Barcelona: "Hey player, you're an amazing footballer and coveted by all of the big teams in Europe, and we want you at Barcelona, here's a totally legitimate contract for millions upon millions. Sign with us and not with any of those other clubs and its all yours. You get to live in Barcelona too, and play for Barcelona. You truly will be blessed."
Player: "Oh my Lord what an amazing opportunity and an amazing sum of money you are going to legally owe me. I surely will sign this legally binding contract with Barcelona and not another club who is offering less. #Blessed"

signs da ting

Barcelona: "Hey dude, here's the thing. We can't actually pay you what we said right now because of Covid. We're barely holding on, despite being one of the biggest clubs in the world we need you to take a pay cut. Times are hard, but we all need to do our bit. For the good of the club. But we can totally pay you in 18 months, 100%, pinky swear. Remember, Mes Que Un Club."
Player: "Oh, well I guess I could help out. Times are hard after all and everyone needs to do their part."

Player defers wages, 18 months later

Barcelona: "Yeaaaah, here's the thing... our finances are a sham, you're gonna have to resign the contract cos we haven't got the money to pay you. Take a lower wage or Barcelona is going to die. Also, we want to make a bunch of expensive new signings and you're kinda stopping us doing that with your ridiculous wages. Mes Que Un Club."
Player: "Uhm, no sorry it's 18 months later and the deferred wages are now owed, please pay them as promised."

Barcelona: "Listen here you little s***, we love you but you're gonna make the club die, just take less money or we'll take you to court, but bleed for the badge cos Mes Que Un Club, but stop being selfish, we need shiny new things, you're not flavour of the month, SIGN THE NEW CONTRACT or we'll see you in court, we love you, Mes Que Un CLub"

Player: "fk you, pay me"
Barcelona fans: "What a toxic player. Boooooo, get out of the club."
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I'm pretty sure you forgot a few 'Mes que un clubs' somewhere along the way there. Other than that, a spot on analysis of the situation.

A contract is a contract. If a club gives an inflated contract to someone who doesn't really deserve it, it's definitely not the player's fault for accepting it and if the player can't be moved on the club just have to find a way to live with their mistake. United fans aren't hounding out Phil Jones because it's not his fault Woodward gave him that stupid contract extension, and likewise Chelsea fans accepted the fact that Danny Drinkwater spent the last four years of his contract without making a single first team appearance because handing him that contract was on Marina and in that situation Drinkwater would've been stupid to accept any less than full payment.

Somehow Barca fans find a way to whitewash all the misdeeds of their management and blame it on someone else. It's a victim mentality that is right up there with Liverpool fans. Barca fans are like a cult that have been brainwashed to believe anything their 'leaders' tell them. Mes que un club.
 
If only we could back to the peaceful days when Barcelona fans were merely trying to con us into thinking Messi was worth 100m a year because he was responsible for 30% of the club's revenues.
 
The way the fans are following the lead on yet another reckless president they themselves have voted in is quite distateful.

I've always had a soft spot for the club, but not so much anymore. They deserve what they get at this rate.
 
The entire narrative of a default club, seems to come more from a fan level and some media more than anything.

It seems that teams like Leeds, Sevilla, Bayern, City, probably Chelsea and some other small clubs, have had no issue in accepting deals with Barça. Goldman Sachs have agreed to restructure Barça's debt to a fixed and very low interest rate, and finance the new stadium, along with the pavilion etc. What the former board at the club did, was borderline criminal, if not straight criminal, and are the ones who should be judged for what they did. But the truth is that, to this date, seems that no one has sent the current board to court for a non-payment.

That being said, what the club has done, is what most of the companies in the corporate world do when they face financial troubles. Reduce balance, or restructure debt and invest.

No one wanted to use levers, but it had to be done, and while, some fans and new "experts", around here are predicting the apocalypsis, it seems that Leeds, Sevilla, Bayern, City, Chelsea, Goldman Sachs, players, etc, have another vision.
 
Manigault said:
The entire narrative of a default club, seems to come more from a fan level and some media more than anything.
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The narrative of a default club comes from the president of Barcelona, Joan Laporta, who has made the following statements:

"The situation is dramatic."
"When we arrived at the club the first thing we had to do was ask for an 80m credit from Goldman Sachs, because we would have been unable to make payroll otherwise."
"The club was almost dead. Now we are in the ICU."
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
The narrative of a default club comes from the president of Barcelona, Joan Laporta, who has made the following statements:

"The situation is dramatic."
"When we arrived at the club the first thing we had to do was ask for an 80m credit from Goldman Sachs, because we would have been unable to make payroll otherwise."
"The club was almost dead. Now we are in the ICU."
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Sure, that's why they pulled the levers, so that they now have a way more healthy balance sheet, in expense of a reduction of income for the upcoming years, witch is said to be between 5%-10%.
The alternative of reducing the balance sheet, would probably imply a bigger drop in revenue, worsening all debt ratios. And they have a positive Working Capital.

That does not sound to me like a broke club, and all the "borrowers" seems to agree with the current board.
 
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Manigault said:
Sure, that's why they pulled the levers, so that they now have a way more healthy balance sheet, in expense of a reduction of income for the upcoming years, witch is said to be between 5%-10%.
The alternative of reducing the balance sheet, would probably imply a bigger drop in revenue, worsening all debt ratios. And they have a positive Working Capital.

That does not sound to me like a broke club, and all the "borrowers" seems to agree with the current board.
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I think it should be noted as well tht they have sold future TV rights to La Liga ... not streaming rights... not champions league rights not any potential super league rights

If 2 years down the line there is a super league where Barca have left l liga and they are streaming games direct to fans this is going to look like a stroke of genius... flip side if in a few years la liga agrees to a more even distribution of TV money between the clubs and there is no super league it will be super tough for them
 
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Can someone summaries the levers and how much of the clubs revenue (as percentage of total) they have mortgaged to the third party investors.
 
Barcelona film soon. Instead of the big short, it'll be the big bust
 
Ragnar123 said:
He has, but so do the fans to express their feelings. I can't repeat it often enough.
Why is everybody only highlighting the player rights, but not those of the fans. The actual people who pay the money? Where does it come from, the urge to protect
multimillionaires and deny the paying people to express themselves? Is this common in the premier league? An honest question, because in LaLiga, every team respects the opinion of it's fans, because in the end, they are the main and only reason we have this form of entertainment.
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Do you even understand what you are saying? A contract is a contract. It doesn't matter what fair unfair. You must honour the contract or pay compensation. The contract is between Barca as a club and the player. You think contract is illegal then go to court.

I honestly love Barca as a club. I used to watch every match until recently. But you supporters and your board have debased this great footballing institution for your greed and arrogance. An honorable club will pay the compensation as per the contract and walk with its head held high. But here you guys are signing expensive players left and right and then demonizing current player for asking money they legally own, pressuring them to leave the club. And then have audacity to even defend this despicable behaviour. Extraordinary.

Very sad state of affairs.
 
Tallis said:
Can someone summaries the levers and how much of the clubs revenue (as percentage of total) they have mortgaged to the third party investors.
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- 25% LaLiga television rights - €500M
- 49% BarcaStudios - €200M

- 7-8 % of club revenue approximately
 
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