Barcelona: Charged with corruption .... again!

0le said:
If you are going to post statistics, you should post the source of your information. For all we know you have just made all of that up or misinterpreted the source.
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My first point was using data from transfermarkt who are reliable, the second was an article written in Feb by 90min.

Looking again at transfermarkt for the european figures they vary ever so slightly
 
Kentonio said:
Yeah but there's desperate and there's downright illegal. Just read that they claimed poor performance, lack of match minutes (wtf?!) and underperforming in 6 of 9 key training areas. Yet no-one bothered to mention any of this to him until he got an email telling him his contract was cancelled. There seems to be feck all chance of that standing up in court.
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Why did no one think of this for sanchez, rooney and ddg? ;)
 
Kentonio said:
I don't get this Matheus Fernandes thing. Did Barca really try and just terminate his contract without paying it out and without any mutual agreement? Sounds like madness.
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Ueanuwug said:
I don't know Spanish laws, but where I am from under certain conditions - such a the risk of bankruptcy - businesses are allowed to circumvent employee protection laws. At least to a certain extent.
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Kentonio said:
Yeah but there's desperate and there's downright illegal. Just read that they claimed poor performance, lack of match minutes (wtf?!) and underperforming in 6 of 9 key training areas. Yet no-one bothered to mention any of this to him until he got an email telling him his contract was cancelled. There seems to be feck all chance of that standing up in court.
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(1) Barcelona are in a very bad economic shape. But this is not the same as being officially bankrupt. To do so, custom practices indicate that you must make a notice to a local chamber of commerce and make it public... Could you imagine the papers announcing Barcelona has filed for bankruptcy?

(2) Football player contracts are not governed by Working Laws. These are drafted as "professional sports service agreements" and as such, they are governed by Civil/Commerce Codes...

(3) Professional Sports Contracts may include clauses regarding performance. If "poor performance" is duly described, measured and notified, then it could be linked to a Unilateral Termination of Contract, which is normally triggered by a rescission (which means, breach of contract from the player).

Emails may be a way of noticing bad performance, but they must also be released on time and with sufficient evidence... If Matheus was just terminated and found all explanations in badly and poorly written emails then he may have a point.

Now, not all "Terminations of Contract" mean "the player was not paid" or that the player filed for lawsuit... Some like Diego Costa with Atlético, parted amicably.
 
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Noodle said:
This is nonsense, Utd have outspent Chelsea by a handsome amount over the past 5 and 10 year period. Utd are also on a par with City for net spend

Even with our splurge last season our 5 year net spend is unexceptional (behind City, Utd, Everton, Arsenal, Brighton and Villa)

EDIT:

Highest Net Spend last 5 years across Europe (in Euros):

1) City - 631m
2) Utd - 586m
3) Barc - 471m
4) PSG - 455m
5) Inter - 386m
6) Everton - 346m
7) Villa - 339m
8) Milan - 311m
9) Chelsea - 308m
10) Arsenal - 299m
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What about since abramovic joined? That would be more logical than cherry picking the last 5 years, one of which you have a transfer ban anyway.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
he actually said that?

Good way to demoralise the squad.
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He did. Interview in vi.nl (Dutch football magazine):

"The club is trying to get a wage reduction through and everyone should accept that. They need to know their place and the situation. Covid has caused a lot of damage, a lot of revenue has been lost. It's time for them to make their contribution now."
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ArjenIsM3 said:
There have to be mechanisms in place to ensure the club is run properly (financially).
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The only way that can happen is if an independent financial auditor (as in not hired by the president of the club, but hired by some other process) is given veto power to any financial transaction. Otherwise, no one will do that.

Presidents are voted to power because of the dream they sell around what the team will look like should they be voted. So, banning that may not be possible.
 
They’ve loaned in some 18 year old from
Austria. They’re not finished just yet
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
The ones fangirling over Beckham 20 years ago would now be in their early 30s to 40s, hardly the demographic who make up social media follower count.

I’m not even interested in this inane debate but I think you’ve consistently failed to factor that into the comparison. We just had a lot less to focus on during those days, posters of fat Ronaldo, Becks etc were pretty much everywhere that were frequented by people, their faces made it to the sport section of the evening news the majority tuned into daily. As late as the beginning of the 10s people in Asia still bought printed press for their sports news in the morning. The interest in Becks with football crowd fell off a lot once he moved to the US but at his peak in the late 90s-early 00s you can’t escape seeing his mug no matter what age group you are, it was a mania, something that can’t be accounted for with social media views/counts.

That brings itself to another point, how much social media is overrated in representation of the populace at large. I don’t remember the exact statistics but something like over half, maybe even 70% of the US population are not on Twitter and for those who do, it skews significantly younger and more liberal, which can paint a very misleading picture. The absolute bore leg of a discussion that is the GOAT debate would probably be massively different in favour of Pele/Maradona if it were to be polled and weighted properly, compared to the result of the often cited online polls.
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Oranges038 said:
It's not really worth comapring players across different generations, Best, Maradona and Pele were all extremely popular in their time. Every bit as popular across the footballing world as Messi is today. The only real difference is how much money there is and how the money is being generated.

Beckham is worth about half a billion now, most of which he has generated outside of football. He was one of the main faces of Adidas for nearly his whole career. He wouldn't have that if he wasn't known world wide which was a direct result of his footballing prowess and also partly to do with how good he looks. That CK add was a real beaut.

Messi is worth about half a billion also, most of which he has creamed out of Barcelona, with his insane contracts. He's nowhere near as popular outside of football, is not as good looking, nobody wants to see him in his underpants and has never had a movie with his name in it that wasn't a documentary.
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I dont know how can you guys argue against something that is already proven. CR7 and Mess have 5x the followers Beckham has, if that doesnt tell you that they are more popular then i guess youve chosen a weird hill to die on but so be it.

Also if your argument is that old people dont use social media and most of them are Beckham followers, then thats also incredibly weird, as if old people are that interested in watching pretty Beckham on trousers as opposed to watching two of the greatest football players of all time. I think you are projecting.
 
VanKenny said:
I dont know how can you guys argue against something that is already proven. CR7 and Mess have 5x the followers Beckham has, if that doesnt tell you that they are more popular then i guess youve chosen a weird hill to die on but so be it.

Also if your argument is that old people dont use social media and most of them are Beckham followers, then thats also incredibly weird, as if old people are that interested in watching pretty Beckham on trousers as opposed to watching two of the greatest football players of all time. I think you are projecting.
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Social media followers are mostly bots anyway. Nobody cares how many followers they have except the people who pay them for sponsored posts. It doesn't explain how Beckham, despite being retired for a while, now still has almost as much net worth as these guys and is still making money.

Most of my post was a joke anyway. Personally, I'd love to see a movie called "Cream them like Messi" where a young star follows their dream of milking the club he "loves" for as much money as possible, even while they were on the brink of financial ruin. Would be a great viewing for all aspiring young players. I'd also love to see him in his underpants.
 
Oranges038 said:
Social media followers are mostly bots anyway. Nobody cares how many followers they have except the people who pay them for sponsored posts. It doesn't explain how Beckham, despite being retired for a while, now still has almost as much net worth as these guys and is still making money.

Most of my post was a joke anyway. Personally, I'd love to see a movie called "Cream them like Messi" where a young star follows their dream of milking the club he "loves" for as much money as possible, even while they were on the brink of financial ruin. Would be a great viewing for all aspiring young players. I'd also love to see him in his underpants.
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Pretty sure you can find some pic of Messi on his underpants. Let me see if i can fetch you a link
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Jesus, talk about a strawman.

Barca have been stupid knobheads, they make United’s board look like a well oiled machine.
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United's board are incompetent in terms of transfer dealings (buy expensive, sell cheap) and sporting decisions (which is 99% of the clubs TBF).

But they're one of the most fiscally competent clubs out there. Not being a title challenger for most of 8 years and being in and out of the CL, yet they've managed to financially keep up with the oil clubs. That is quite remarkable IMO.
 
Charrockero said:
(1) Barcelona are in a very bad economic shape. But this is not the same as being officially bankrupt. To do so, custom practices indicate that you must make a notice to a local chamber of commerce and make it public... Could you imagine the papers announcing Barcelona has filed for bankruptcy?

(2) Football player contracts are not governed by Working Laws. These are drafted as "professional sports service agreements" and as such, they are governed by Civil/Commerce Codes...

(3) Professional Sports Contracts may include clauses regarding performance. If "poor performance" is duly described, measured and notified, then it could be linked to a Unilateral Termination of Contract, which is normally triggered by a rescission (which means, breach of contract from the player).

Emails may be a way of noticing bad performance, but they must also be released on time and with sufficient evidence... If Matheus was just terminated and found all explanations in badly and poorly written emails then he may have a point.

Now, not all "Terminations of Contract" mean "the player was not paid" or that the player filed for lawsuit... Some like Diego Costa with Atlético, parted amicably.
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Same principle applies regardless of contracts. Aka if there is a way to prevent bankruptcy, there are some legal ways to break certain kinds of contracts from employment to other sorts of contracts. But again, I am not aware of spanish law so I don't know what is possible there.
 
MUFC OK said:
It's hard to argue that we aren't heading for an era of PSG/City/Chelsea dominance. The financial power they possess versus the rest of the field is frankly obscene.

They could each spend 250m net each season for the next 10 years if they were inclined to do so.
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PSG have had to make free transfers and their team is a bit meh, I don't see where you see the dominance coming from? They have also just lost the league title to Lille.

Chelsea don't spend anymore than United and it shows that money alone doesn't always get glory.
 
onemanarmy said:
Koeman's interview is actually bonkers.

- "Messi is the future of Barcelona and we have to keep him at all cost." He is 34... In Caf age that's like 57.
- "Other players have to lower their wages so we can afford a new contract for Messi". If he was my employer, I'd tell him to piss off, as most Barca players have done apparently.
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That is crazy, imagine being asked by your manager to take a pay cut so that another employee who is already the highest paid can get paid even more.

I hope every single player says no. Messi is no saint in this either, I cannot believe he would allow his team's mates and friends to go through that so he can have even more money.
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
PSG have had to make free transfers and their team is a bit meh, I don't see where you see the dominance coming from? They have also just lost the league title to Lille.

Chelsea don't spend anymore than United and it shows that money alone doesn't always get glory.
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PSG dont have to make free transfers they spend €60mil on hakimi and €15 on Danilo. Ramos, wijnaldum and donnarumma were good free transfers. Lets hope they also buy pogba.

As for Barcelona players having to take a paycut to pay for messi, i know what i would be telling the squad if i was a player and it wouldnt be lets take a pay cut to make a global superstar richer.

The man is a leech, his boyhood club is dire straights and hes willing to come down to €140mil over 2 years. What a joke.
 
nuanced said:
United's board are incompetent in terms of transfer dealings (buy expensive, sell cheap) and sporting decisions (which is 99% of the clubs TBF).

But they're one of the most fiscally competent clubs out there. Not being a title challenger for most of 8 years and being in and out of the CL, yet they've managed to financially keep up with the oil clubs. That is quite remarkable IMO.
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:lol:

We've managed to spend almost as much as the oil clubs, but without having a title challenge for 8 years.
 
clarkydaz said:
The same Barcelona who happily hogged all the TV money from smaller clubs? feck em
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I can imagine the outrage from the fans of thsoe clubs. We have no money to spend on the team but will give Barcelona who unfairly hog the tv revenue with real madrid money to keep messi. Seriously? The weaker Barcelona are the better for the other la liga clubs.
 
dinostar77 said:
I can imagine the outrage from the fans of thsoe clubs. We have no money to spend on the team but will give Barcelona who unfairly hog the tv revenue with real madrid money to keep messi. Seriously? The weaker Barcelona are the better for the other la liga clubs.
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La Liga isn't a competition anymore. There is no sporting goal among the lesser clubs to challenge the big clubs.

Imagine West Ham funding a United player's wage. Mental.
 
VanKenny said:
I dont know how can you guys argue against something that is already proven. CR7 and Mess have 5x the followers Beckham has, if that doesnt tell you that they are more popular then i guess youve chosen a weird hill to die on but so be it.

Also if your argument is that old people dont use social media and most of them are Beckham followers, then thats also incredibly weird, as if old people are that interested in watching pretty Beckham on trousers as opposed to watching two of the greatest football players of all time. I think you are projecting.
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oh man I feel old.
 
unplayable said:


Might be getting help from other teams now. :wenger:
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Mighty Barca getting bailed out publicly by other Spanish clubs. There’s a story in there somewhere.

Edit- guess this is similar to “Too big to fail”.
Perhaps these clubs will pressure LaLiga to ease some of the financial rules.
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
That is crazy, imagine being asked by your manager to take a pay cut so that another employee who is already the highest paid can get paid even more.

I hope every single player says no. Messi is no saint in this either, I cannot believe he would allow his team's mates and friends to go through that so he can have even more money.
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No, Messi should not accept less money. He can get more than what he is demanding from Barcelona from other teams anyway. Why should Messi be punished for how poorly the club has been run? Give them till the deadline to find a solution otherwise sign for another team.
He gave them an out last year instead they decided to keep him like hostage.

The rest of the players can say no but the club will just start terminating contracts. The team is filled with dead weights. Pique, de jong, pedri, busquets, fati, their goalkeepers, other young players. The rest either takes a pay cut or gets kicked out.
 
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