Barcelona: Charged with corruption .... again!

caid said:
I guess a mexican would have a different outlook on the weather :lol:
I'd have a pretty different view on it. I guess i'd rather live somewhere sunnier than ireland but the rain has its own set of advantages in a thousand ways. Or maybe its just the family and friends that make me love ireland and tolerate the weather.
I guess the math would be very different for a footballer to my or your outlook on it. The weather is probably a pretty big part of that but im not really convinced theres a bad place to live in western europe for anyone. Not with a city like Manchester anyway.
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Sometimes people(not you @caid) act like if Manchester had the weather of Trondheim or something. Yes it has more rainy days than most Spanish cities and is cooler on average, but nothing shocking or hard to live with for a Dutch person.
I think there's other factors in play here like network, social activities, opportunities for entertainment and the like. And as long as you pay well who cares. City has a loaded squad and I've never heard them complaining about the weather. These rich people can create their own weather and can afford heated swimming pools regardless of how expensive gas or electricity gets.
 
MexicanCowboy said:
Can United pay De Jong what we pay him? For sure, you pay Ronaldo way more. But to be able to spend over a 100 million every summer and still finish below Spurs and Arsenal. Well it's kind of easy to see why De Jong prefers to stay here in our bankrupted club than move to a club that has spend nearly as much as City but can't even make top 4. De Jong may tolerate living in Manchester if at least he was playing for City. But to move to an awful place to have even less probabilities to win a trophy than where you currently are. You really need to get paid way more. No Barca's player will move to United unless United pays way more.
At Barca you can hope finances will get better. At United it doesn't matter, you haven't won any important trophy in like 9 years anyway.
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So he'd of been happy to move last summer, when we were 2nd? K.

You do realise there is only one way for Barca's finances to get 'better' right? That is to both get in cash by selling players, and also reducing the wage bill by the same means. That's how you improve the giant hole you've climbed in. So while you say FDJ et al should remain at Barca and 'hope' the reality of the situation is that if some of those same players don't agree to be sold, they might not be getting paid a few weeks into the season.
 
caid said:
Your idiotic management goes back further than your previous president
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In the 2017 season, and at the time when PSG deposited the €222M for Neymar, at that time and with that money Barcelona had no net debt.

But... the idiot who was for president began to throw away the money.

At that time Barcelona was both sportingly and economically in a great position.
 
Niemans said:
In the 2017 season, and at the time when PSG deposited the €222M for Neymar, at that time and with that money Barcelona had no net debt.

But... the idiot who was for president began to throw away the money.

At that time Barcelona was both sportingly and economically in a great position.
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Your wages to income levels have been stupid for about a decade. Buying neymar was an outrageously expensive deal. It was always going to blow up in your face. Pretty much everyones reaction to you having Messi, Neymar and Suarez was how the feck can they afford it. Turns out you couldn't.

So question. If they manage to get 400m together and get all the various free agents and lewandowski signed, are they in the clear? Or will they be trying to scrape together hundreds of millions again next year?
 
RoyH1 said:
Sometimes people(not you @caid) act like if Manchester had the weather of Trondheim or something. Yes it has more rainy days than most Spanish cities and is cooler on average, but nothing shocking or hard to live with for a Dutch person.
I think there's other factors in play here like network, social activities, opportunities for entertainment and the like. And as long as you pay well who cares. City has a loaded squad and I've never heard them complaining about the weather. These rich people can create their own weather and can afford heated swimming pools regardless of how expensive gas or electricity gets.
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Yeah I mean it's like 29 degrees this Friday in Manchester. Ok it's showers on Saturday but you get what I mean :lol: . I've been to many a country which had weather in the 30s and 40s and even 50s in their summers - that to me is way, way harder to live with. You can't DO anything in that. You can't work, you can't play sports, you just sit in air conditioning if you are really lucky or go find a pool . Depends what you want I guess but it's not for me.
 
caid said:
Your wages to income levels have been stupid for about a decade. Buying neymar was an outrageously expensive deal. It was always going to blow up in your face. Pretty much everyones reaction to you having Messi, Neymar and Suarez was how the feck can they afford it. Turns out you couldn't.

So question. If they manage to get 400m together and get all the various free agents and lewandowski signed, are they in the clear? Or will they be trying to scrape together hundreds of millions again next year?
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The escalation in wages came from 2017, just after Neymar left. Coutinho, Dembele and Griezzman were signed and Messi, Piqué, Alba, Busquets and other players were renewed.

2015 - €419M ( All professional sections and amortization)
2016 - €435M
2017 - €432M
2018 - €639M
2019 - €633M

Barcelona are trying to get 500M to be inside ffp and being able to sign normally.
 
Niemans said:
The escalation in wages came from 2017, just after Neymar left. Coutinho, Dembele and Griezzman were signed and Messi, Piqué, Alba, Busquets and other players were renewed.

2015 - €419M ( All professional sections and amortization)
2016 - €435M
2017 - €432M
2018 - €639M
2019 - €633M

Barcelona are trying to get 500M to be inside ffp and being able to sign normally.
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From 2014-2015
https://www.barcablaugranes.com/2015/7/17/8987367/fc-barcelona-2014-15-financial-report-released

"While those numbers suggest excellent work by the outgoing board, the report also points out some big flaws in the system. The wage bill has reached sky-high levels of 73% of the income, with recommended levels being between 55 and 70 percent. Spending 73% on wages, a large increase from last season, partly "aided" by bonuses because of the trophy-laden season, is unsustainable long term because the club is still operating in debt, which has increased this season by a staggering €41 million, from €287 million to €328 million"

That was after winning pretty much every trophy that season i believe. Completely unsustainable to expect that to continue. You've been a clown show for ages.

For the avoidance of doubt in 2019 you had a ratio of 75.7%, a pretty minor increase. Tottenham were on 34.5%, Liverpool 46.5%, Ajax 57.7%.
https://www.sbibarcelona.com/newsdetails/index/449
 
MexicanCowboy said:
Can United pay De Jong what we pay him? For sure, you pay Ronaldo way more. But to be able to spend over a 100 million every summer and still finish below Spurs and Arsenal. Well it's kind of easy to see why De Jong prefers to stay here in our bankrupted club than move to a club that has spend nearly as much as City but can't even make top 4. De Jong may tolerate living in Manchester if at least he was playing for City. But to move to an awful place to have even less probabilities to win a trophy than where you currently are. You really need to get paid way more. No Barca's player will move to United unless United pays way more.
At Barca you can hope finances will get better. At United it doesn't matter, you haven't won any important trophy in like 9 years anyway.
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It's not as if this is some kind of eternally destined state of affairs. United can bounce back practically any moment, it's just a matter of sorting out the things that have been plaguing the club from within. While nobody will expect us to be back at the top this very next season, it's not outlandish to imagine that we'll challenge for the title again inside three years if things go well. Besides, while this has undeniably been a very bad decade for us, we did finish 2nd in two of the last five seasons, and reached the Europa League final twice in the same timespan. A far cry from our golden age under SAF, but it's not as if this club is on its last legs. We have the finances, legacy and footballing clout to be back at the top whenever the dysfunctional elements at the club are repaired. By all accounts, we've made leaps and strides towards that in the last year. We're not significantly worse off than Liverpool were five or six years ago, and financially, we're much better. Even with the parasitical owners, we can still spend £100m or more every summer, which very few other clubs can boast of.
 
caid said:
From 2014-2015
https://www.barcablaugranes.com/2015/7/17/8987367/fc-barcelona-2014-15-financial-report-released

"While those numbers suggest excellent work by the outgoing board, the report also points out some big flaws in the system. The wage bill has reached sky-high levels of 73% of the income, with recommended levels being between 55 and 70 percent. Spending 73% on wages, a large increase from last season, partly "aided" by bonuses because of the trophy-laden season, is unsustainable long term because the club is still operating in debt, which has increased this season by a staggering €41 million, from €287 million to €328 million"

That was after winning pretty much every trophy that season i believe. Completely unsustainable to expect that to continue. You've been a clown show for ages.

For the avoidance of doubt in 2019 you had a ratio of 75.7%, a pretty minor increase. Tottenham were on 34.5%, Liverpool 46.5%, Ajax 57.7%.
https://www.sbibarcelona.com/newsdetails/index/449
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Barcelona had that salary bill that year for the signing of Luis Suárez and his amortization, the signing the previous year of Neymar and for the bonuses for having won the League, cup and Champions League (€60M).

Also there enters the academy and the other sections very deficit economically.. like Basketball.

caid said:
From 2014-2015
https://www.barcablaugranes.com/2015/7/17/8987367/fc-barcelona-2014-15-financial-report-released

"While those numbers suggest excellent work by the outgoing board, the report also points out some big flaws in the system. The wage bill has reached sky-high levels of 73% of the income, with recommended levels being between 55 and 70 percent. Spending 73% on wages, a large increase from last season, partly "aided" by bonuses because of the trophy-laden season, is unsustainable long term because the club is still operating in debt, which has increased this season by a staggering €41 million, from €287 million to €328 million"
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2014-2015 - 73% income
2015-2016 - 69%
2016-2017 - 64%

2014-15 - 328 Net debt
2015-16 - 271
2016-17 - 247

The club after an atypical season returned to the margins recommended by Uefa.

To draw conclusions you have to see the evolution and why of each season.
There it is clear that Barcelona was within the margins and everything began as I said in the 2017 season.
 
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Barca won the CL in 2015 (?) which cost them money because their players were on such high bonuses. Their financials aren’t a recent phenomenon.
 
MexicanCowboy said:
Madrid's nice. I love the city. A bit too hot in summer but other than that is a great place. London and Paris have really bad weather but nice historical sites.
Don't get me wrong, as Mexican I envy most european cities. But Barcelona and mediterranean cities in general are much nicer than northern ones. Specially because of that annoying rain you seem to have all the time over there.
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No offense but you clearly haven't traveled very widely.
 
cyberman said:
Barca won the CL in 2015 (?) which cost them money because their players were on such high bonuses. Their financials aren’t a recent phenomenon.
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They lost 42m that year with record breaking income. The outgoing president kind of left a shit sandwich to whoever came after. Win everything to avoid racking up 9 figure debts annually. Dont sign anyone, renew anyone on improved terms or spend anything on infrastructure because you have near half a billion debt built up just from operating on a day to day basis.
You could be pragmatic and responsible and try to sell neymar to a club like PSG, cut Messi's wage to a sustainable level that doesn't completely distort the wages of everyone else in the squad or even just sell him and start again with some younger players but your obviously not going to win an election on that platform and barca fans seem way too delusional to not see the sense in that. Getting a charlatan like Bartomeu was probably kind of inevitable.
 
Utd have bored some folk but I wish Barca would feck off and die now. There's no mileage in them. They're a club without that magic ingredient of historical
narrative: tragedy. No disasters, nothing. And let's be honest, their history follows the same timeline as PSG. They were feck all before 1970.
 
Needham said:
Utd have bored some folk but I wish Barca would feck off and die now. There's no mileage in them. They're a club without that magic ingredient of historical
narrative: tragedy. No disasters, nothing. And let's be honest, their history follows the same timeline as PSG. They were feck all before 1970.
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I recommend that you learn the history of the Spanish league.
 
Needham said:
Utd have bored some folk but I wish Barca would feck off and die now. There's no mileage in them. They're a club without that magic ingredient of historical
narrative: tragedy. No disasters, nothing. And let's be honest, their history follows the same timeline as PSG. They were feck all before 1970.
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hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

In 1970...
Barça had won the domestic league more times than any english side. (2nd in winnings after Real Madrid in Spain)
Barça had already won more times the domestic cup (Copa del Generalisimo/Copa del Rey) than any english side FA cups... until today!!!!
United won the only CL final they played, Barça lost it (Barça played his CL final almost a decade before United, first team to beat Real in the competition by the way). Barça also played other international titles were it was successful (Copa de Ferias, Copa Latina, etc.).

Then Cruyff came in the darkest period of our history (14 years without winning LaLiga) and new history was built.

Even if you delete from history a team who had won more leagues than any english side, a team who had won more domestic cups that any english side until today and international success, you still have 50 years of football heritage with almost 20 leagues, cups, 5 Champions Leagues among others. So yeah! PSG all the way!!!
 
FCBarcelona said:
hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

In 1970...
Barça had won the domestic league more times than any english side. (2nd in winnings after Real Madrid in Spain)
Barça had already won more times the domestic cup (Copa del Generalisimo/Copa del Rey) than any english side FA cups... until today!!!!
United won the only CL final they played, Barça lost it (Barça played his CL final almost a decade before United, first team to beat Real in the competition by the way). Barça also played other international titles were it was successful (Copa de Ferias, Copa Latina, etc.).

Then Cruyff came in the darkest period of our history (14 years without winning LaLiga) and new history was built.

Even if you delete from history a team who had won more leagues than any english side, a team who had won more domestic cups that any english side until today and international success, you still have 50 years of football heritage with almost 20 leagues, cups, 5 Champions Leagues among others. So yeah! PSG all the way!!!
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I meant 1870 and you know I did stop trying to be an arse.
 
Still amazes me that no criminal charges were ever brought against Bartomeu. Surely there is a case for criminal negligence.
 
What's the story with this "Economic Levers" carry on?

On their forums and a few articles I've read, they seem to be banging on about some rights or levers they're supposed to be selling today which will fill all their bank accounts back up?
 
diarm said:
What's the story with this "Economic Levers" carry on?

On their forums and a few articles I've read, they seem to be banging on about some rights or levers they're supposed to be selling today which will fill all their bank accounts back up?
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There are different options to get a lot of money right now to get out of the crisis. Selling 49% of BLM or 25% of our tv rights. If they are approved we will be able to sign and registre players and won't need to sell any player that Xavi likes, like De Jong, Dest or Memphis.
 
MexicanCowboy said:
There are different options to get a lot of money right now to get out of the crisis. Selling 49% of BLM or 25% of our tv rights. If they are approved we will be able to sign and registre players and won't need to sell any player that Xavi likes, like De Jong, Dest or Memphis.
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Sounds shady.
 
Adisa said:
They are selling a massive chunk of future earnings.
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Acrobat7 said:
They are kicking the can down the road.
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Not if they sell for far more than the current value to compensate for future growth. There is a reason they rejected a previous CVC deal due to it shaking up to looking like a horrible decision ten years from now as revenue and club value most likely rises. They’ve been holding out for this current deal and once we get the final numbers we can see what the long term value is.
 
MexicanCowboy said:
There are different options to get a lot of money right now to get out of the crisis. Selling 49% of BLM or 25% of our tv rights. If they are approved we will be able to sign and registre players and won't need to sell any player that Xavi likes, like De Jong, Dest or Memphis.
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You sure about that re: not needing to sell?
 
Bartomeu is imprinted on the hearts of every Madridista. A true genius who has set Barca back for years. Barca have to not only back-pay many of their high earners, they also have limited ability to raise debt for infrastructure projects since they have had to raise so much to pay existing wages.

Economically we can expect a Global Recession within the next 12 months, and since companies across all industries are so overleveraged it will be an everything-recession, unlike 2001 (Tech) and 2008 (Housing debt). It will be so severe that people will cutback on non-essential spending such as tickets and club merchandise. Advertisers will follow suit and pay less for associating with Barca games. So Barca will have a tough time building up revenues for the next 2-3 seasons. Long may this continue :drool: ... Sick and tired of them always acting like their 'sh-t doesn't stink' ... 'mes que un club' should be changed to 'mosquito club'.
 
ilrm said:
Bartomeu is imprinted on the hearts of every Madridista. A true genius who has set Barca back for years. Barca have to not only back-pay many of their high earners, they also have limited ability to raise debt for infrastructure projects since they have had to raise so much to pay existing wages.

Economically we can expect a Global Recession within the next 12 months, and since companies across all industries are so overleveraged it will be an everything-recession, unlike 2001 (Tech) and 2008 (Housing debt). It will be so severe that people will cutback on non-essential spending such as tickets and club merchandise. Advertisers will follow suit and pay less for associating with Barca games. So Barca will have a tough time building up revenues for the next 2-3 seasons. Long may this continue :drool: ... Sick and tired of them always acting like their 'sh-t doesn't stink' ... 'mes que un club' should be changed to 'mosquito club'.
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Yes, this is great news for all, for sure. :drool:
 
diarm said:
Sounds shady.
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They need to pay the loans which are due and salaries which are owed. They have no other option. And also they need to sell players regardless of today’s outcome. Their revenue stream is going to take a big hit from next season onwards if this is approved
 
diarm said:
Sounds shady.
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laporta might not be be quite as bad Barto, but the new leadership is hardly transparent. E.g. as far as I can tell, they havn't even budgeted ferran torres or any other transfer last season and did other things to dress up the 21/22 budget. They "planned" to have it balanced, but will fall way way way short. The only question is how bad it is and they really need the money to cover their losses. They are asking the socios to agree to deals without providing any details about these deals.

Edit: sales of BLM% have been approved comfortably. Hard to believe that TV rights won't be approved as well.
 
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Laporta said it perfectly, there are no illusions here. There is no good decision here either. Only bad or worse. Nobody likes to sell future incomes, but the situation is dire and to do nothing is even worse. If the socios want the club to move forward and be competitive again, they need to approve the selling. 600m € would allow barca to breathe again and then it will depend on the sporting project to invest the money wisely and not to buy failures again like Bartomeu did.

Also, 25 % of the national tv rights equals 5 % of total club income as of today. It will be even less, if the sales increase. So at the most, barca is selling 5% of the income for 25 years. More or less 40m every year.
 
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Widow said:


Approved the partial commercialization of the two economic 'levers' that were submitted to a vote in Barça: up to 25% of the TV rights and 49.9% of BLM. The forecast is that an amount between 700 and 800 million can be entered.

So, Barca look to be bringing in 700/800 million Euros. They may not need to sell FdJ
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Does anyone have an oversight of this - what do they owe, how much do they generate through merchandise, TV rights and match day income? And what's the timeframe on this commercialisation - in perpetuity?
 
ilrm said:
Bartomeu is imprinted on the hearts of every Madridista. A true genius who has set Barca back for years. Barca have to not only back-pay many of their high earners, they also have limited ability to raise debt for infrastructure projects since they have had to raise so much to pay existing wages.

Economically we can expect a Global Recession within the next 12 months, and since companies across all industries are so overleveraged it will be an everything-recession, unlike 2001 (Tech) and 2008 (Housing debt). It will be so severe that people will cutback on non-essential spending such as tickets and club merchandise. Advertisers will follow suit and pay less for associating with Barca games. So Barca will have a tough time building up revenues for the next 2-3 seasons. Long may this continue :drool: ... Sick and tired of them always acting like their 'sh-t doesn't stink' ... 'mes que un club' should be changed to 'mosquito club'.
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Why?
 
Half of merchandising/licensing and 25% of TV money sounds an awful lot like mortgaging the future of the club.

The can might have been kicked down the road for another season or two, but I'd be very nervous about the medium/long term future of the club if I was a Barca fan.
 
So De Jong stays. Dembele stays. Kounde goes to Barca. They'll confirm Alonso, Christensen, Lewandowski and potentially Azpi.
 
V.O. said:
Half of merchandising/licensing and 25% of TV money sounds an awful lot like mortgaging the future of the club.

The can might have been kicked down the road for another season or two, but I'd be very nervous about the medium/long term future of the club if I was a Barca fan.
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It seems seriously short sighted to me, especially if it is done to sign players as they have enough talent in the squad to make top 4 without signing anyone and things will eventually get better after 2-3 years anyway if they are able to shift some overpaid players and focus on youth. This deal will come back to bite them in 5-7 years time once all the players they sign now need to be replaced and their revenue is effectively 25% lower than everyone else's.
 
MuFc_1992 said:
It seems seriously short sighted to me, especially if it is done to sign players as they have enough talent in the squad to make top 4 without signing anyone and things will eventually get better after 2-3 years anyway if they are able to shift some overpaid players and focus on youth. This deal will come back to bite them in 5-7 years time once all the players they sign now need to be replaced and their revenue is effectively 25% lower than everyone else's.
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Exactly.

It’s amazing to me that the club and it’s supporters seem to have such a massive sense of entitlement that the thought of probably not winning La Liga or the CL for a couple years is just unbearable.
 
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