Backup CDM

ElectroManiac said:
Yeah is time for one of Lindelof, Martinez or Shaw to play on midfield.

Sabitzer is not a CDM. He will be much better playing as a box to box midfield. Martinez I'm sure he can do a good job in there but he is doing so good on his CB position that I would like to not mess up that, so that only leave Shaw or Lindelof.
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Sabitzer has played as a 6 more times than any of the names you've listed.

Martinez is levels above anyone at cb at the club bar varane, why would you want that drop off. Lindelof is incompetent at cb, he's only going to get worse as a CDM. Shaw is the only one I'd consider because we have a capable deputy, but who's to say he's capable of playing there?
 
What the heck is all this talk about Shaw playing centre mid?! :lol:

He's had some nice games at centre back with acres of space and no-one behind him, but quite different in the middle with everything coming from all sides with way less time.
 
Clubs usually have one proper cdm and another midfielder who is can cover but isn't primarily a DM. No decent DM would like to come to United with Casemiro in the team. Hopefully Sabitzer would turn out good so he could deputize for Casemiro in his absent.
 
Don't disrupt the parts of the team that do work - Shaw at LB combining with Sancho/Rashford, Varane-Martinez at CB.

So, Lindelof.
 
Just because Shaw has shown to able to play CB, it doesn't mean he can replace Casemiro. Shaw's one of the best LBs in the world, him and Malacia there is exactly the type of model we should hope to achieve in every position.

In my opinion signing someone younger who can deputise for Casemiro when he's rested / absent should be priority #2 for the summer - right behind signing a striker.

We've been crying out for a player of Casemiro's ilk for (arguably) over a decade, now that we've got him I've found the past couple of PL games more than enough proof that we need him (or someone atleast somewhat similar) to play every game, if we want this level of play to become a steady standard.
 
Casemiro will play whenever he's fit. Head coaches like ETH don't like rotating too much, so the key is finding someone who can play with Casemiro as well as without him.

Or else, said players going to rot on the bench, and be rusty as feck whenever he's actually called upon.
 
Palinha my pick to beef up our midfield + Mac Callister. This we are set in midfield and ready to compete against anyone.
 
What with the Martinez as DM chat? Mind boggling. Martinez is immense at CB. Oh yeah, here’s an idea let’s not play him there anymore.
 
Skills said:
Casemiro will play whenever he's fit. Head coaches like ETH don't like rotating too much, so the key is finding someone who can play with Casemiro as well as without him.

Or else, said players going to rot on the bench, and be rusty as feck whenever he's actually called upon.
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I would not say this it true. Look at Varane this year, TH is rotating him and keeping him in a loop in order to rest him and have him for big games. But he has options there suitable for some games. Also, Dalot and AWB now, he is rotating them. I think the reason why he is playing Casemiro every game, and Eriksen before, or Rashford, is that he doesn't gave replacement good enough (on 80% of level of first choice). But I am sure he is aware that Casemiro and Rashford now can't play every three days till May.
 
KevinJoh said:
I would not say this it true. Look at Varane this year, TH is rotating him and keeping him in a loop in order to rest him and have him for big games. But he has options there suitable for some games. Also, Dalot and AWB now, he is rotating them. I think the reason why he is playing Casemiro every game, and Eriksen before, or Rashford, is that he doesn't gave replacement good enough (on 80% of level of first choice). But I am sure he is aware that Casemiro and Rashford now can't play every three days till May.
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Difference is that we at least have some CB cover to rest Varane at times,however in terms of Casa cover we haven't anyone who has his positional sense at all
 
DM - Casemiro, Sabitzer, Mctominay
CM - Eriksen, Fred, Mainoo

Our first choice pair Casemiro+Eriksen is very strong, the problem is our backup, while Sabitzer looks quite reliable from what we have seen so far, Fred does look like an obvious weakness. I think Mainoo looks promising during his brief debut here. Maybe in summer we could bring Sabitzer here for long term, and get another young midfielder (preferably Bellingham), then I think we will be quite sorted.
 
RedRonaldo said:
DM - Casemiro, Sabitzer, Mctominay
CM - Eriksen, Fred, Mainoo

Our first choice pair Casemiro+Eriksen is very strong, the problem is our backup, while Sabitzer looks quite reliable from what we have seen so far, Fred does look like an obvious weakness. I think Mainoo looks promising during his brief debut here. Maybe in summer we could bring Sabitzer here for long term, and get another young midfielder (preferably Bellingham), then I think we will be quite sorted.
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Sabitzer ain't a DM, he's the Eriksen backup. Casemiro's the only recognised DM in the squad, the others are more box to box players.
 
Raw said:
Sabitzer ain't a DM, he's the Eriksen backup. Casemiro's the only recognised DM in the squad, the others are more box to box players.
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I don’t think it really matter that much. We played with 2 central midfielders on the field and Sabitzer is a good ball winner in midfield. In fact majority of the game he has played for Bayern is in DM position.
 
I'd have a breakdown trying to choose the DM for say the Europa League final if Casemiro is out. There are good arguments for and huge argument againsts all of Sabitzer, McTominay, Lindelof, Lisandro and Shaw to play there.

This summer, I think we sign a young player who wants to learn from Casemiro and take over for him in 3-4 years. If you're a 20 year old DM that might appeal to you over playing every game in mid-table in Ligue 1 or staying in Brazil.
 
RedRonaldo said:
DM - Casemiro, Sabitzer, Mctominay
CM - Eriksen, Fred, Mainoo

Our first choice pair Casemiro+Eriksen is very strong, the problem is our backup, while Sabitzer looks quite reliable from what we have seen so far, Fred does look like an obvious weakness. I think Mainoo looks promising during his brief debut here. Maybe in summer we could bring Sabitzer here for long term, and get another young midfielder (preferably Bellingham), then I think we will be quite sorted.
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Sabitzer and McTominay are no DMs. Both are missing the real sense of positioning and especially McTom is dribbled past pretty easy (just look at one of Maddison shots yesterday late in the game). Sabitzer might be a good rotation option for Eriksen when he settles but his best work is done in the builtup and in front of opposition goal. The notion that he is a DM is a little misguided. He can be, just like Martinez can be. But why would you try to push a player into a position that he isn't thriving in. Sabitzer made a name for himself at Leipzig where he didn't play DM or DLP. He is a roaming midfielder who is no slouch in terms of defensive actions (like Eriksen is these days) but that doesn't make him a DM. When we see the effect that Casemiro had on our team it is a bit bizarre that people still dismissing the need of a specialized ball winner, not a makeshift solution.

RedRonaldo said:
I don’t think it really matter that much. We played with 2 central midfielders on the field and Sabitzer is a good ball winner in midfield. In fact majority of the game he has played for Bayern is in DM position.
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And he didn't make any sort of impact there and became unhappy. Don't get me wrong, I am not against the player but he isn't a Casemiro replacement.
 
Palhinha would be good there, maybe not as good on the ball but seems monstrous defensively.
 
RedRonaldo said:
He played well for us so far. Looking aggressive/combative enough even in PL. I think he is made for this league.
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I don't see how you watch the games we've played without Casemiro and think Sabitzer suits the DM role. It's so clear we've missed a DM and that's not Sabitzer's fault, he's just not a natural DM
 
What about Lavia from Southampton.

I must be honest, I have seen him play 5 odd times but he looks like he is a good player.

If Southampton go down, can probably get him cheaper than Rice, Caceido or someone of that ilk.
 
The problem is any DM we sign knows they won't get in the team ahead of Casemiro so it's likely it'll have to be someone who's happy to be back-up for now and just plays when Casemiro needs a rest. Can't see us signing anyone like Caceido or Rice for that role
 
If Newcastle miss out on CL then what would people think about Bruno Guimaraes?

Would be expensive, but capable of both partnering Casemiro as more of an 8, as well as filling in for him when necessary.
 
Gerald G said:
I don't see how you watch the games we've played without Casemiro and think Sabitzer suits the DM role. It's so clear we've missed a DM and that's not Sabitzer's fault, he's just not a natural DM
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Yea but with Casemiro starting most of the games, we don’t really need a top class backup DM there playing 20+ games a season. We probably need someone who could play CM and also fill in DM role when required so (~10 games would do). Sabitizer is one of few times I could think of who can do both, and seems adapts well in this league
 
RedRonaldo said:
Yea but with Casemiro starting most of the games, we don’t really need a top class backup DM there playing 20+ games a season. We probably need someone who could play CM and also fill in DM role when required so (~10 games would do). Sabitizer is one of few times I could think of who can do both, and seems adapts well in this league
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I disagree. You'd need someone that can play DM and fill in CM if required, not the other way around.
 
Casemiro seems to be a relatively fit guy so our only worry with him is losing him due to suspension.

Any DM who would be of the requisite quality won't want to come and play second fiddle to him. We're probably best off sticking with McT in there (With a midfield partner that isn't Fred as the two of them together just don't work) as he can do an okay job there and he won't agitate when he's not playing often. If there was someone better who was happy to come and sit on the bench that would be great, but I can't see who that would be.
 
footballbite said:
If Newcastle miss out on CL then what would people think about Bruno Guimaraes?

Would be expensive, but capable of both partnering Casemiro as more of an 8, as well as filling in for him when necessary.
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Guimaraes is also a combatitive 8 but not a sitter. Casemiro is exactly that and the replacement/rest option should have a similar skillset. Definitely in terms of defensive nous. Casemiro is obviously great because he is imperious defensively and still very good with the ball.

Gerald G said:
I disagree. You'd need someone that can play DM and fill in CM if required, not the other way around.
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Fully agree here. Feels wild that people were screaming for a DM for years, now have seen the effect of Casemiro and still come to conclusions that we just need players "who can do a job there" and not specialists
 
NZT-One said:
Guimaraes is also a combatitive 8 but not a sitter. Casemiro is exactly that and the replacement/rest option should have a similar skillset. Definitely in terms of defensive nous. Casemiro is obviously great because he is imperious defensively and still very good with the ball.


Fully agree here. Feels wild that people were screaming for a DM for years, now have seen the effect of Casemiro and still come to conclusions that we just need players "who can do a job there" and not specialists
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100%. And the lack of a DM has been clear to see in the games he's missed in my opinion. For instance, if we had a proper DM then I don't think we would have drew 2-2 with Leeds last week
 
RedRonaldo said:
He played well for us so far. Looking aggressive/combative enough even in PL. I think he is made for this league.
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He's certainly tenacious enough to excel in the PL, I don't disagree with you on that bit. He's also a better player than McT, and Donny. His passing is way better/more consistent than Fred and you want that from a player playing in the centre of the pitch. He has shown he has an eye for a pass - that switch out wide to Shaw leading to Rashford's goal against Leeds.

Whilst I agree with you that Sabitzer can deputise at DM if needed, we need to plan for the future and bring in a young specialist DM (if there isn't anyone suitable from the academy) as backup. Someone who can be moulded by EtH and Casemiro, then take over from Casemiro eventually.
 
Absent calamitous injury crisis, we can’t be fukking about with having defenders play in midfield.

Short term, Sabitzer and Fred. Long term is an entirely different discussion, but there aren’t many quality specialist DMs who would be interested in playing behind Casemiro.
 
We should be looking at Sangare this summer, he's been doing quite well for PSV, watched him play their Europa league match against Sevilla and I thought he was class.
 
jeepers said:
He's certainly tenacious enough to excel in the PL, I don't disagree with you on that bit. He's also a better player than McT, and Donny. His passing is way better/more consistent than Fred and you want that from a player playing in the centre of the pitch. He has shown he has an eye for a pass - that switch out wide to Shaw leading to Rashford's goal against Leeds.

Whilst I agree with you that Sabitzer can deputise at DM if needed, we need to plan for the future and bring in a young specialist DM (if there isn't anyone suitable from the academy) as backup. Someone who can be moulded by EtH and Casemiro, then take over from Casemiro eventually.
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I actually agree we need a young proper DM specialist as backup. But I suspect his game time would be very limited, so we might end up having to take some risk to bring in some young potential (rather unproven) who doesn’t mind to play 2nd fiddle all season.

Personally best scenario would be a DM/CM hybrid so he can have more game time even when Casemiro is starting, but realistically that type of midfielder would usually be more suit to play in box to box role, and somewhat similar to what Sabitzer would offer us.

I am just thinking if we are going to bring someone like Bellingham (box to box) in summer, we are probably not going to sign anymore DM specialist as there is simply no game time for such player. And of course bringing in someone like Bellingham would always be better option for our midfield, as he is in different class.
 
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