Axel Tuanzebe - Loan Watch (Napoli)

‘We should bring him back next season. I’d start him as first choice alongside Maguire. He’s better than Lindelöf’ - Redcafe every hear for the last 4 seasons.

This day has been coming for years, and as has been blindingly obvious throughout that time, he’ll eventually be let go for pennies on the dollar when he should have really brought us at least 20m if we sold when we should have. He was average on loan at Villa in the Championship and has never given any indication that he’d be a good enough centre half for us.
 
kouroux said:
There are many lessons to learn from tbh:
1) What a player does in other leagues/teams is basically irrelevant when it comes to Utd.
2) When a player has a great game at Utd (Axel vs PSG), it's still not enough to rate him as a possible starter long term.
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I think regarding point one, he was not even impressive enough on loan at the other team/league. At a club without our ‘traditions’ for young players, he’d have been shopped immediately back then. He was simply decent in the Championship. Nowhere near as good as Ben White. Nowhere near as good as Marc Guehi. Just decent. We should have sold then, but as long as an academy player looks like they can walk, we’ll try and hang on to them if we can.
 
Rozay said:
I think regarding point one, he was not even impressive enough on loan at the other team/league. At a club without our ‘traditions’ for young players, he’d have been shopped immediately back then. He was simply decent in the Championship. Nowhere near as good as Ben White. Nowhere near as good as Marc Guehi. Just decent. We should have sold then, but as long as an academy player looks like they can walk, we’ll try and hang on to them if we can.
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According to several Villains I talked to, he was as good as Tyrone Mings, and among the best performers in the team, and he was 20/21. For a CB, that is a very promising trajectory. At other clubs, he’ll either be loaned further (Tomori) or kept in-house as a squad opportunity (Gomez) at that point, depending on how he performs in training and the situation at the club.

Tbh, at the point he got injured, it looked like a good plan, and at the point he started the CL game vs PSG, almost anyone still thought it was brilliantly handled. Then his nerves and decision making regressed, predicted by practically nobody, but these things happen often, and is part of the gamble with young players.

The Villa loan mk 2 made much sense, the Napoli one seems a poor decision at this point, a bit like Januzaj going to Dortmund.
 
Grande said:
According to several Villains I talked to, he was as good as Tyrone Mings, and among the best performers in the team, and he was 20/21. For a CB, that is a very promising trajectory. At other clubs, he’ll either be loaned further (Tomori) or kept in-house as a squad opportunity (Gomez) at that point, depending on how he performs in training and the situation at the club.

Tbh, at the point he got injured, it looked like a good plan, and at the point he started the CL game vs PSG, almost anyone still thought it was brilliantly handled. Then his nerves and decision making regressed, predicted by practically nobody, but these things happen often, and is part of the gamble with young players.

The Villa loan mk 2 made much sense, the Napoli one seems a poor decision at this point, a bit like Januzaj going to Dortmund.
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Fair enough if that’s what they say, but I never saw that personally. Mings was far better. Hence Villa spending 26m on him back then.

And he was kept in house as a squad option anyway, and bar one much-fabled performance, he was largely either terrible or injured. Last season in particular he cost us points almost everytime he stepped on to the pitch.

Villa Mk2 made sense in theory, but it also showed him up for not being up to it.
 
Grande said:
According to several Villains I talked to, he was as good as Tyrone Mings, and among the best performers in the team, and he was 20/21. For a CB, that is a very promising trajectory. At other clubs, he’ll either be loaned further (Tomori) or kept in-house as a squad opportunity (Gomez) at that point, depending on how he performs in training and the situation at the club.

Tbh, at the point he got injured, it looked like a good plan, and at the point he started the CL game vs PSG, almost anyone still thought it was brilliantly handled. Then his nerves and decision making regressed, predicted by practically nobody, but these things happen often, and is part of the gamble with young players.

The Villa loan mk 2 made much sense, the Napoli one seems a poor decision at this point, a bit like Januzaj going to Dortmund.
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TBF he's been injured pretty much the whole times he's been at Napoli - that they even wanted him and were prepared to pay a loan fee shows he is well rated

He was in regular rotation at Villa at the start of the season before Gerrard showed up so is good enough to play PL football for someone if he can sort out his injury issues
 
Grande said:
According to several Villains I talked to, he was as good as Tyrone Mings, and among the best performers in the team, and he was 20/21. For a CB, that is a very promising trajectory. At other clubs, he’ll either be loaned further (Tomori) or kept in-house as a squad opportunity (Gomez) at that point, depending on how he performs in training and the situation at the club.

Tbh, at the point he got injured, it looked like a good plan, and at the point he started the CL game vs PSG, almost anyone still thought it was brilliantly handled. Then his nerves and decision making regressed, predicted by practically nobody, but these things happen often, and is part of the gamble with young players.

The Villa loan mk 2 made much sense, the Napoli one seems a poor decision at this point, a bit like Januzaj going to Dortmund.
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Yeah Axel was good at Villa in the Championship tbf.
Tyrone Mings was better though and held Axel's hand in that CB partnership.
 
As a regular academy and u-23s watcher I never rated him as highly as other fans.
The way some fans spoke of him you'd think he was an exceptional talent. A dead cert! :D

For me he's up there with Fosu Mensah as the most overrated youth players we've had in the last ten years.

Shame because they're good lads and by all accounts Axel would've been captain material, but he just wasn't good enough for the first team plain and simple.
 
Rozay said:
‘We should bring him back next season. I’d start him as first choice alongside Maguire. He’s better than Lindelöf’ - Redcafe every hear for the last 4 seasons.
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Typical. "Centre back sorted for the next ten years" etc
 
GueRed said:
As a regular academy and u-23s watcher I never rated him as highly as other fans.
The way some fans spoke of him you'd think he was an exceptional talent. A dead cert! :D

For me he's up there with Fosu Mensah as the most overrated youth players we've had in the last ten years.

Shame because they're good lads and by all accounts Axel would've been captain material, but he just wasn't good enough for the first team plain and simple.
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Bastian said:
Why are people shitting on him? He was a super promising player in our academy, Mourinho name checked him and said he only needed to watch him for a few minutes to realise he was going to make it. He had an outstanding performance after not playing for ages away at PSG where he was up against the best forward in the world. The only thing that's held him back are injuries and bad loan-management. Such a shame.
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Remember the geese said:
I echo this. He really was a terrific talent. I was excited about what he could be for us. It's disappointing. Like most of the last decade.
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See, the revisionism has started, now we all can make posts with benefit of hindsight, that he was never a good talent. Agree with @Bastian and @Remember the geese , he was very talented player and also very good on the ball. Ofcourse transition to first team is always tough and if the development plan is not good then the career is just wasted.

Young players should leave big clubs asap to get regular game time, no point staying at clubs just to get few games here and there.

Excluding @Rozay from this 'Revisionism' point. I remember he always said he wasn't all that (at least when he was playing for first team).
 
Wednesday at Stoke said:
Pique sat on the bench behind Rio, Vidic and Wes Brown and his career did not go off the rails because of that. Tuanzebe had every opportunity to push for a starting spot and instead made mistakes on every occasion, except that one game in Paris.
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Odd comparison - Pique left at 21 precisely because his career wasn't going to plan...
 
Bastian said:
Why are people shitting on him? He was a super promising player in our academy,
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A lot of players from our academy are 'super promising'.

The hype and the way fans talked about Axel at the time was like he was exceptional and was going to be world class! He wasn't a dead cert in my eyes.
 
roonster09 said:
he was very talented player and also very good on the ball.
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As talented as he was he was (quick on the ground and a decent tackler) he was a shambles in the air and had regular lapses in concentration. Not good.
 
Never thought he was that good
 
Bastian said:
Why are people shitting on him? He was a super promising player in our academy, Mourinho name checked him and said he only needed to watch him for a few minutes to realise he was going to make it. He had an outstanding performance after not playing for ages away at PSG where he was up against the best forward in the world. The only thing that's held him back are injuries and bad loan-management. Such a shame.
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Totally agree - his loans haven't even been that bad, injuries (plus Ole's lack of rotation) have been his main issues and meant last 2 seasons have been a waste for him

He is low to mid PL level at the minimum - could have even progressed higher than that without the injuries
 
I liked the couple of games he had at right back under Mourinho, but yeah that was like five years ago
 
I still maintain the club should've prioritised the development of Tuanzebe over signing a bang average CB like Lindelof. We actually paid £30m to bring Lindelof in and he's lived upto how average some of us predicted he would be. We're a team that can't maintain a high line and hence can't press effectively from the front due to the players that were signed. Tuanzebe would've been moved on quickly at the behest of the first team manager if he didn't live upto his potential but Lindelof with a £30m price tag wasn't going anywhere fast and was given ample opportunity to stake a place in the team after putting in some awful performances.

Mourinho signed Lindelof and Bailly when Virgil Van Dijk was at Southampton. This type of thought process is what has contributed to our malaise post Fergie and we're a team that has been left way behind when it comes to implementing a proactive/attacking brand of football with counter pressing capabilities. If we buy Van Dijk then I don't have a problem at all with who is moved on/loaned out. But if you buy Lindelof then I'm sorry but I'm going to have a issue with that, especially after watching him play for us. And predictably we're a bang average team, and it was easily predicted on this forum that the likes of Lindelof, Maguire and AWB wouldn't be suited to a team that had aspirations to play dominant front foot football with high risk. And it's no surprise the same players with numerous appearances have proved alot of us to be correct.

We're in our current position, because we bought players who were nowhere near good enough to play for a club with our aspirations. And now we can't effectively press from the front and I've been telling you this for years.
 
GueRed said:
As a regular academy and u-23s watcher I never rated him as highly as other fans.
The way some fans spoke of him you'd think he was an exceptional talent. A dead cert! :D

For me he's up there with Fosu Mensah as the most overrated youth players we've had in the last ten years.

Shame because they're good lads and by all accounts Axel would've been captain material, but he just wasn't good enough for the first team plain and simple.
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Fair enough. I remember him playing RB against Arsenal under Mourinho and thinking, this lad is a dead cert. It was like the performance he had against PSG, only he was three years younger.

To be fair, both the youth allergic Mou and several inside United talked about him being almost a dead cert, even praising his mentality and leadership skills, touting him as a future captain etc, so people would be forgiven for having high expectations.

To me, it seems clear something has developped backwards, as well as some things stagnating. In the end, you can never tell with development, which makes I-told-you-so’s pretty daft in football :)
 
I don’t think he’s a bad player at all. He could be a very good player but he’s wasted crucial years of development being a bit part player out on loan. He should have been sold instead of being loaned out over and over. Hopefully we learn a lesson from all the waste recently
 
Adnan said:
I still maintain the club should've prioritised the development of Tuanzebe over signing a bang average CB like Lindelof. We actually paid £30m to bring Lindelof in and he's lived upto how average some of us predicted he would be. We're a team that can't maintain a high line and hence can't press effectively from the front due to the players that were signed. Tuanzebe would've been moved on quickly at the behest of the first team manager if he didn't live upto his potential but Lindelof with a £30m price tag wasn't going anywhere fast and was given ample opportunity to stake a place in the team after putting in some awful performances.

Mourinho signed Lindelof and Bailly when Virgil Van Dijk was at Southampton. This type of thought process is what has contributed to our malaise post Fergie and we're a team that has been left way behind when it comes to implementing a proactive/attacking brand of football with counter pressing capabilities. If we buy Van Dijk then I don't have a problem at all with who is moved on/loaned out. But if you buy Lindelof then I'm sorry but I'm going to have a issue with that, especially after watching him play for us. And predictably we're a bang average team, and it was easily predicted on this forum that the likes of Lindelof, Maguire and AWB wouldn't be suited to a team that had aspirations to play dominant front foot football with high risk. And it's no surprise the same players with numerous appearances have proved alot of us to be correct.

We're in our current position, because we bought players who were nowhere near good enough to play for a club with our aspirations. And now we can't effectively press from the front and I've been telling you this for years.
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During the beginning of the 19/20 season, Tuanzebe was in the rotation and playing at a better frequency then he ever had at United. But his injuries crept up again and he never recovered for the entire season.

While I agree that he should have been focused more than others, his injury record is poor and has also aided in him not developing properly. Last year, he was firmly on the bench and United got through the season primarily with Lindelof and Maguire. He was available for selection most matches, but didn't feature as much, obviously. That was the start of his 'decline' and just an abrupt stop to his development, which has been compounded by his loan move to Napoli.
 
edcunited1878 said:
During the beginning of the 19/20 season, Tuanzebe was in the rotation and playing at a better frequency then he ever had at United. But his injuries crept up again and he never recovered for the entire season.

While I agree that he should have been focused more than others, his injury record is poor and has also aided in him not developing properly. Last year, he was firmly on the bench and United got through the season primarily with Lindelof and Maguire. He was available for selection most matches, but didn't feature as much, obviously. That was the start of his 'decline' and just an abrupt stop to his development, which has been compounded by his loan move to Napoli.
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Plus his massive brainfart and playing in Aubamayeng vs Arsenal at home, to make it 1-1.
 
He is 24 and is yet to play 100 professional games in senior football. Surely that itself is a huge indication that he is not that good. Hope he does well elsewhere but we have to stop wasting players' time. Let them grow elsewhere.
 
Rozay said:
‘We should bring him back next season. I’d start him as first choice alongside Maguire. He’s better than Lindelöf’ - Redcafe every hear for the last 4 seasons.

This day has been coming for years, and as has been blindingly obvious throughout that time, he’ll eventually be let go for pennies on the dollar when he should have really brought us at least 20m if we sold when we should have. He was average on loan at Villa in the Championship and has never given any indication that he’d be a good enough centre half for us.
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I have been making this point elsewhere. It's incredibly difficult to produce a player even as good as Tuanzebe, so the chances of producing a genuinely elite player that suits your style and set-up are actually very low. Liverpool only have TAA in their best XI and Foden plays about half the time in City's.

We need to stop clinging on to the notion that they will go through some huge developmental spike in their 20s. Generally, if a footballer is going to truly be one of the best in the World in their position then they should standout before they turn 21.

What we should actually be doing with lads like Tuanzebe is marketing them once they hit 19/20 and haven't broken into the first team squad. Send them on soft loans to weaker leagues, let them play regularly and then flog them to a bottom half-PL club. Simple.

Again, as I have said elsewhere, you can include a buyback clause, so on the very rare occasion their talent suddenly explodes, we can bring them back. Think about it honestly though...if we had sold Rashford for £70m, McTominay for £30m, Henderson for £40m, Lingard for £35m, Tuanzebe for £20m or Brandon Williams for £20m, would we bring any of them back for that fee or more?

Personally, I think it would be a resounding 'no'. That's £215m we could have in our back pocket, enough to buy two world class CMs and probably a CF too.

Imagine our team now without those 6 players but with Declan Rice, Luis Diaz and Frenkie De Jong. Miles better off.

And...on that note...I'd be tempted to sell Elanga and Garner now. I like both and have spoken positively about both...but if we could get £25/30m(ish) each with a £50m buyback clause then I would snap that up right now.
 
Lentwood said:
I have been making this point elsewhere. It's incredibly difficult to produce a player even as good as Tuanzebe, so the chances of producing a genuinely elite player that suits your style and set-up are actually very low. Liverpool only have TAA in their best XI and Foden plays about half the time in City's.

We need to stop clinging on to the notion that they will go through some huge developmental spike in their 20s. Generally, if a footballer is going to truly be one of the best in the World in their position then they should standout before they turn 21.

What we should actually be doing with lads like Tuanzebe is marketing them once they hit 19/20 and haven't broken into the first team squad. Send them on soft loans to weaker leagues, let them play regularly and then flog them to a bottom half-PL club. Simple.

Again, as I have said elsewhere, you can include a buyback clause, so on the very rare occasion their talent suddenly explodes, we can bring them back. Think about it honestly though...if we had sold Rashford for £70m, McTominay for £30m, Henderson for £40m, Lingard for £35m, Tuanzebe for £20m or Brandon Williams for £20m, would we bring any of them back for that fee or more?

Personally, I think it would be a resounding 'no'. That's £215m we could have in our back pocket, enough to buy two world class CMs and probably a CF too.

Imagine our team now without those 6 players but with Declan Rice, Luis Diaz and Frenkie De Jong. Miles better off.

And...on that note...I'd be tempted to sell Elanga and Garner now. I like both and have spoken positively about both...but if we could get £25/30m(ish) each with a £50m buyback clause then I would snap that up right now.
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Hard to argue with any of that, it's a good plan and the amount of players we should have off loaded sooner when we could have is criminal, I would include Pogba and Lingard in that too, both should have been sold last summer.
 
OnlyTwoDaSilvas said:
1 league game (which was 10 minutes) and 1 cup game (90mins plus ET) for Napoli, according to Transfermarkt. Grim.
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What the hell. Then why didn't we recall him? Surely there are some Championship teams that could use him for their starting XI? He needs playing time, that's the whole point of a loan.
 
Has Tuanzebe, however limited his minutes have been this season, looked worse than Maguire?
 
Dolf said:
What the hell. Then why didn't we recall him? Surely there are some Championship teams that could use him for their starting XI? He needs playing time, that's the whole point of a loan.
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Because he's shit and we probably don't care about his development anymore considering he'll likely leave on a free next summer.
 
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lex talionis said:
Has Tuanzebe, however limited his minutes have been this season, looked worse than Maguire?
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How have you managed to shoehorn Maguire into this?

Tuanzebe has played on game. It's not possible to compare his performances to anyone.
 
Is it some sort of rule that Maguire needs to be fecking slagged off every 3 posts? Regardless of the thread some “witticism” will be said about Harry Maguire. We’re every bit as fecking shite without him as we are with him because remarkably when your front players don’t run, you don’t press as a team and you have Bruno turning the ball over every 5 touches meaning you’re being countered all the time it’s actually pretty difficult to look good as a CB. Oh and to top it off you have some of the most average fullbacks around either side of you. So no - Tuanzebe wouldn’t have fared better.
 
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