Auction-Trade Madness Draft - R1: Skizzo vs Onenil

With players at career peak, who will win this match?

  • Team Skizzo

    Votes: 15 55.6%

  • Team Onenil

    Votes: 12 44.4%
  • Total voters
    27
  • Poll closed .
Skizzo said:
Use as many green smileys as you’d like...You’re just listing all your players as if it means something. No one on your team offers the same threat as Zico. Your striker leading the line hasn’t even scored against my center back who you keep downplaying.

Rensenbrink is no Dzajic. McGrain is a better defensive match up for the winger than Maicon.

Lato I’ve already talked about, and had him all the way through my winning draft.. but he will have a tougher time against Junior than Finney on against Pessotto. Lato will look to move inside, and Junior is comfortable enough going either way to make it difficult. On the flip side, Finney is up against Pessotto. Like I said, a good if unspectacular full back.

What game plan do you suppose to have in which your chance of winning rests on Mendieta and Falcao? There’s no easy route through when they’re coming up on Coluna and Silva.

The biggest mismatches all go in my favour, so If you're just hoping to get into a shootout, I have a more threatening, prolific forward line to do so.
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Meh, your midfield offers nothing compared to Falcao, Mendieta and Cerezo. Figueroa is the best player on the pitch and nullifies any name influence of Zico. Falcao was a genius where you have no plan to stop him. Rensenbrink and Lato are very underrated and are just as dangerous as your wingers which don't fit well with Zico stylistically etc.
Junior's best strength was not in his defense at all but rather him running unmarked into the center of the pitch which won't happen here and Coluna and Silva are massively underwhelming to attempt to stop my midfield.

I am sure your narrative is different and repeating ourselves is not beneficial anymore.

The weakest area of either side is your CB pairing which doesn't mesh well with your tactic, your other players or each other. A third rate all time stopper and someone who was only a man marker are just an awful CB pairing for a modern back 4 or a 1982 homage tactic or whatever your ambiguous tactical plan is trying to be.

I have a clear tactical plan while you really are all over the place first claiming 1982 Brazil then trying to say you have a 433 (WTF?) and now just avoiding the issue.
 
I think I might have realized why Onenil hasn’t directly addressed the Zico problem he faces...and yes some of these are out of context and tongue in cheek. Relax.

To be fair, my top 5 probably changes every month based on mood. Socrates is always 1 and Zico is always in the top 5-6 though
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What are you talking about? I rate Zico as the 7th Best Player of All Time (only behind Pele, Maradona, Messi, Cruyff, Beckenbauer and Di Stefano grudgingly - I really like Zico better but I acknowledge Di Stefano has better credentials).
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For me I can't see Zico being stopped
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Also there is only one play I have ever seen better at manuvering in tight spaces, and that’s Messi.
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When Zico was tightly marked, he did drop deep in midfield and that's how he was still able to unlock Gentile-Scirea defense. One of his assists against Liverpool as well can from him going over the top from deep.
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Moby said:
Just revoked all your privileges from the Zico fan club.

Wtf man.
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You weren't going to be happy with how I phrased, originally it was best defender of all time.
 
Moby said:
Just revoked all your privileges from the Zico fan club.

Wtf man.
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You weren't going to be happy with how I phrased, originally it was best defender of all time.
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
Meh, your midfield offers nothing compared to Falcao, Mendieta and Cerezo. Figueroa is the best player on the pitch and nullifies any name influence of Zico. Falcao was a genius where you have no plan to stop him. Rensenbrink and Lato are very underrated and are just as dangerous as your wingers which don't fit well with Zico stylistically etc.
Junior's best strength was not in his defense at all but rather him running unmarked into the center of the pitch which won't happen here and Coluna and Silva are massively underwhelming to attempt to stop my midfield.

I am sure your narrative is different and repeating ourselves is not beneficial anymore.

The weakest area of either side is your CB pairing which doesn't mesh well with your tactic, your other players or each other. A third rate all time stopper and someone who was only a man marker are just an awful CB pairing for a modern back 4 or a 1982 homage tactic or whatever your ambiguous tactical plan is trying to be.

I have a clear tactical plan while you really are all over the place first claiming 1982 Brazil then trying to say you have a 433 (WTF?) and now just avoiding the issue.
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You say Figueroa is the best player on the pitch, yet had Zico ahead of him in your “top players of all time”

Zico was a team first player, as were Finney and Seeler. All of them would have no issues linking up and creating chances for each other.

The benefit of Junior is his ability to move centrally, but it’s not all he offers, and you’re well aware of that. Defensively he’s also no liability as you yourself even alluded to in comments such as
I don't really see 31+ year old Junior picking up Garrincha nearly as easily as 27 year old Junior could.
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as you understand his work rate, agility et al were more than capable on the defensive side to help nullify threats.

The weakest part on my team and your striker still hasn’t been able to score against one of them. Doesn’t bode well for you there does it.

Clear tactical plan blah blah you still haven’t mentioned anything about it. I already clarified my earlier comments. You’re still yet to address any of yours regarding some plan you have.

You’re trying your best to steer away from talking about Zico because you’re well aware you aren’t able to stop him. Your best argument seems to have been “Figueroa nullifies the threat of Zico’s name”

If you’re really trying to make it sound like Zico is a vote winner based on scan votes, you’re clutching at straws. You need Figueroa to be focused on Seeler, and have no way of stopping Zico running away with this game.
 
Skizzo said:
You say Figueroa is the best player on the pitch, yet had Zico ahead of him in your “top players of all time”

Zico was a team first player, as were Finney and Seeler. All of them would have no issues linking up and creating chances for each other.

The benefit of Junior is his ability to move centrally, but it’s not all he offers, and you’re well aware of that. Defensively he’s also no liability as you yourself even alluded to in comments such as as you understand his work rate, agility et al were more than capable on the defensive side to help nullify threats.

The weakest part on my team and your striker still hasn’t been able to score against one of them. Doesn’t bode well for you there does it.

Clear tactical plan blah blah you still haven’t mentioned anything about it. I already clarified my earlier comments. You’re still yet to address any of yours regarding some plan you have.

You’re trying your best to steer away from talking about Zico because you’re well aware you aren’t able to stop him. Your best argument seems to have been “Figueroa nullifies the threat of Zico’s name”

If you’re really trying to make it sound like Zico is a vote winner based on scan votes, you’re clutching at straws. You need Figueroa to be focused on Seeler, and have no way of stopping Zico running away with this game.
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You are trying to steer clear of my advantage in midfield because your workman like 2 man CMs have no chance in containing Falcao-Cerezo-Mendieta.

Its pretty obvious you want the entire narrative to be about Zico and not about all the nuances of the tactical battle (or lack thereof when it comes to your mess of "1982 Brazil then 433 now just trying to only talk about Zico".

Let's just pretend Falcao, Mendieta, Lato and Rensenbrink don't exist this match. Oh and that Chillieni and Gentile aren't horribly suited to a 4 at the back

Skizzo said:
@oneniltothearsenal you still haven’t responded to this yet?
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Obviously I voted for myself, what are you going on about?
 
Let's not pretend Falcao doesn't exist this match or is incapable of having influence. We should highlight this grand player.

Paulo Roberto Falcão
“Falcao is the man who conducts the orchestra on the pitch. All I do sometimes is write the music for him, or prepare the score based on certain ideas.”

Nils Liedholm
They say that back in the early '70s, Falcao considered becoming a psychologist because making it as a footballer seemed to be too difficult. The budding superstar changed his mind in 1972 when he went to play in a junior football tournament in Cannes.

Nonetheless Paulo Roberto Falcao remained a psychologist throughout his football career. He knew when a team-mate needed a word in his ear and what to say to get the team motivated.

His psychological masterpiece, as it were, came on TV programme Mixer after Roma lost to Juventus in 1982-83. The Brazilian knew the city and his team-mates were hurting and he realised that somebody had to send out a message to restore confidence. He did just that, then the following Sunday he scored against Pisa to complete the job: Roma were back on track and they went on to cap a marvellous campaign with title glory.

So Falcao was a leader. But he was much more besides. Fulvio Stinchelli, one of the greatest Roman journalists of all time, used to say that Il Divino's greatness lay in his uncanny ability to see into the future: “Falcao always knew three passes beforehand where the ball would end up.”

That gives you an idea of the player but to complete the picture, for those who never saw him play, we have to mention the incredible touch he was blessed with. One of the first things you noticed was that he really could place the ball anywhere he wanted. After seeing him in action for the first time, journalist Roberto Chiodi said: “It's impossible that anyone can play the way he does. He has two hands in place of his feet.”

The other thing about him was his knack of being everywhere on the pitch. Fulvio Bernardini wrote: “Falcao appears wherever the team need his feet, his ideas and his brain. He's not a showy player and he's only spectacular for brief moments. He controls the ball with long legs and doesn't have blistering pace, yet he is everywhere. He shows for the ball, makes it easy for his team-mates to find him and so often slips away from his marker.

Paulo Roberto Falcao, inducted into the Hall of Fame in 2012, is one of those players who defines AS Roma history. Il Divino will never be forgotten."



http://www.asroma.com/en/club/hall-of-fame/falcao




Through ball
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Assist in the Box
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Crazy shot
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Amazing Volley
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oneniltothearsenal said:
You are trying to steer clear of my advantage in midfield because your workman like 2 man CMs have no chance in containing Falcao-Cerezo-Mendieta.

Its pretty obvious you want the entire narrative to be about Zico and not about all the nuances of the tactical battle (or lack thereof when it comes to your mess of "1982 Brazil then 433 now just trying to only talk about Zico".

Let's just pretend Falcao, Mendieta, Lato and Rensenbrink don't exist this match. Oh and that Chillieni and Gentile aren't horribly suited to a 4 at the back



Obviously I voted for myself, what are you going on about?
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I don’t need to steer clear of your “advantage” in midfield because there isn’t one. I’ve addressed the comparisons there multiple times already. You say I’m taking “pot shots” at your full backs, and yet completely disregard the player Coluna was, and the fact that Cerezo can’t go wandering off into midfield to attack without leaving Zico even more wide open.

I’ve talked more about any tactical nuances than you have. All you’ve done so far is ignore Zico running through your team, and listed Rensenbrink, Lato, Falcao and Mendieta about 4 times :lol: Matic got more tactical discussion on Mourinho’s note yesterday.

Not to mention you still seem to struggle coming to grips that your striker hasn’t scored against Chiellini at any point so far, so you ramble on aimlessly elsewhere.

And the question regarding the votes is for scoring purposes. Settle down :)
 
Skizzo said:
I don’t need to steer clear of your “advantage” in midfield because there isn’t one. I’ve addressed the comparisons there multiple times already. You say I’m taking “pot shots” at your full backs, and yet completely disregard the player Coluna was, and the fact that Cerezo can’t go wandering off into midfield to attack without leaving Zico even more wide open.

I’ve talked more about any tactical nuances than you have. All you’ve done so far is ignore Zico running through your team, and listed Rensenbrink, Lato, Falcao and Mendieta about 4 times :lol: Matic got more tactical discussion on Mourinho’s note yesterday.

Not to mention you still seem to struggle coming to grips that your striker hasn’t scored against Chiellini at any point so far, so you ramble on aimlessly elsewhere.

And the question regarding the votes is for scoring purposes. Settle down :)
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What nonsense. All you keep doing is repeating "what about Zico blah blah". You have done zero talking about tactical nuance. No mention of how Lato and Rensenbrink are supposed to be stopped. Nothing about how you are outmatched heavily in midfield. Coluna-Silva is decent but can, in no way contain Falcao-Mendieta and Cerezo no matter how much you want to pretend that is possible.

Also your example on Suarez is rubbish. "Chillieni" does not count for Juventus defense. That was an entirely different system to the rubbish mismash system that you never even adequately explained that you are running.

First you are allegedly Brazil 19823 then a 433 now you just pretend Chillieni and Gentile work in whatever magic defense set-up you are supposed to be running now. Fact is your Frankenstein 4231 is nothing near what Juve's tactical system was defensively so its just WUMMing to bring up a handful of matches instead of looking at the overall system.

Junior can't stop Lato solo. McGrain can't stop Rensenbrink solo. And neither Chiellini nor Gentile is suited to playing your ambiguous magical tactical system.

I honestly don't get how you can feck up claiming your system is Brazil 1982 (no its not) then say its a 433 with when Zico is not a CM and then pretend you have any advantage tactically. You got some shameless bollocks I'll say that
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
Let's not pretend Falcao doesn't exist this match or is incapable of having influence. We should highlight this grand player.
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Again, who’s ignoring him? You seem to have some alternate narrative going on in your head.

Since you seem to have no idea who Coluna is though..

Club
Benfica
International
Portugal
Individual

He spent most of his career with Benfica, appearing in 525 official games and scoring 127 goals during 16 professional seasons. Dubbed O Monstro Sagrado (The Sacred Monster), he won 19 major titles with his main club, including ten national leagues and two European Cups.

Coluna represented Portugal at the 1966 World Cup, and earned a total of 57 caps. He was considered one of the best midfielders of his generation, also being viewed as one of the most talented Portuguese players of all time.

 
Skizzo said:
Again, who’s ignoring him?
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You are.

Coluna's individual awards are not even remotely on the level of Falcao. Mendieta was UEFA European best midfielder in 1999-00 and 2000-01. Sorry but you are just overrating Coluna (whose was a very simple playmaker who simply had broad shoulders and was strong for his era) and very much underrating Mendieta and Cerezo.

Your midfield is simply out numbered (3v2), outmatched technically, poorly matched tacically (433 vs 4231) and your side doesn't really mesh well with your tactics and all the players. You have a bunch of players that excelled playing different play styles rather than focused around one strategy as I have.

Good luck Skizz. I am not going to get sucked into your narrative anymore.
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
What nonsense. All you keep doing is repeating "what about Zico blah blah". You have done zero talking about tactical nuance. No mention of how Lato and Rensenbrink are supposed to be stopped. Nothing about how you are outmatched heavily in midfield. Coluna-Silva is decent but can, in no way contain Falcao-Mendieta and Cerezo no matter how much you want to pretend that is possible.

Also your example on Suarez is rubbish. "Chillieni" does not count for Juventus defense. That was an entirely different system to the rubbish mismash system that you never even adequately explained that you are running.

First you are allegedly Brazil 19823 then a 433 now you just pretend Chillieni and Gentile work in whatever magic defense set-up you are supposed to be running now. Fact is your Frankenstein 4231 is nothing near what Juve's tactical system was defensively so its just WUMMing to bring up a handful of matches instead of looking at the overall system.

Junior can't stop Lato solo. McGrain can't stop Rensenbrink solo. And neither Chiellini nor Gentile is suited to playing your ambiguous magical tactical system.

I honestly don't get how you can feck up claiming your system is Brazil 1982 (no its not) then say its a 433 with when Zico is not a CM and then pretend you have any advantage tactically. You got some shameless bollocks I'll say that
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How many times do you want me to compare the match ups for you? Other posters have already come in and mentioned how McGrain is the best defensive full back on the pitch, and yet you still don’t see how Dzajic and Finney pose more problems for Maicon and Pessotto than your wingers do on the other side.

Again, I’ve already clarified and addressed multiple things throughout the thread, and yet you still seem to struggle to actually address them at all.

Claims I’m wumming and taking potshots at your players when you’ve ignored half my teams impact completely takes it to a new level. I Can’t even claim you have big bollocks, you just seem to be spouting it.

Dzajic is better than Rensenbrink. He’s up against a favourable full back and would have more success than Rob against McGrain.

Finney and Lato are somewhat similar, but Finney against Pessotto again doesn’t bode well for you.

Zico is now the responsibility of Figueroa? So Puyol takes on the responsibility of Seeler? Doesn’t bode well for you either when Dzajic cuts inside.

Take your “3v2 dominating possession” BS argument and come back with an actual plan for stopping the ACTUAL best player on the pitch.

The argument you’ve made before is Zico scored more goals at the Maracanã than the oppositions wingers combined. Well, he’s only about 20 shy of matching yours as well. And that’s not even taking into account Seeler, Dzajic and Finney :)
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
You are.

Coluna's individual awards are not even remotely on the level of Falcao. Mendieta was UEFA European best midfielder in 1999-00 and 2000-01. Sorry but you are just overrating Coluna (whose was a very simple playmaker who simply had broad shoulders and was strong for his era) and very much underrating Mendieta and Cerezo.

Your midfield is simply out numbered (3v2), outmatched technically, poorly matched tacically (433 vs 4231) and your side doesn't really mesh well with your tactics and all the players. You have a bunch of players that excelled playing different play styles rather than focused around one strategy as I have.

Good luck Skizz. I am not going to get sucked into your narrative anymore.
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Not sure how I’m ignoring him when I’ve direcly discussed him multiple times. You say I’m overrating him, I say you’re underrating him. The truth is probably
Somewhere in the middle, as with anything. The fact remains that it doesn’t leave a sieve in midfield for you to wander through as you’d suggest.

Even if you make no more responses to my “narrative”, that would still be equal to the amount of actual responses you’ve made in terms of how to set up to stop us winning :) good luck to you too.
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
Sorry but you are just overrating Coluna (whose was a very simple playmaker who simply had broad shoulders and was strong for his era)
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Cmon now. He was a great midfield general with an excellent engine and the creative heart of that dominant Benfica team that broke Real's dominance in Europe.
 
Skizzo said:
Not sure how I’m ignoring him when I’ve direcly discussed him multiple times. You say I’m overrating him, I say you’re underrating him. The truth is probably
Somewhere in the middle, as with anything. The fact remains that it doesn’t leave a sieve in midfield for you to wander through as you’d suggest.

Even if you make no more responses to my “narrative”, that would still be equal to the amount of actual responses you’ve made in terms of how to set up to stop us winning :) good luck to you too.
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:lol:
All you are doing is pretending your 2 CMs are equivalent to my 3 Cms.
 
Moby said:
Cmon now. He was a great midfield general with an excellent engine and the creative heart of that dominant Benfica team that broke Real's dominance in Europe.
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You might as well be describing Mendieta with that statement.
No way is Coluna on another level to Mendieta. We can just agree to disagree if you actually believe that nonsense. Mendieta is just as hard a worker with a higher technical level.
 
Skizzo said:
:lol: I think that’s the second or third time now that someone else has said something contrary to what you believe, and you just dismiss it almost immediately.
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Except that's not whats happening so stop making things up.

Again you have 2CMs. They are outmatched against 3CMs. That is just reality mate.
You neither have the numbers nor the tactic to compete in midfield. But carry on making things up !
 
Moby said:
It isn't my opinion, I've just quoted what most sources say about him.
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Ok link me a source saying Coluna is at a different level to Mendieta since that seems to be what Skizzo claimed and you are defending
 
Moby said:
Not really, I haven't said anything about Mendieta, just talking about Coluna there.

I've picked Mendieta before, he's an excellent midfielder.
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Well my point is Skizzo has a midfield 2CM compared to my midfield 3CM.

He also declared that Coluna was on another to Mendieta completely which is rubbish.

So he seems to think that his two midfielders (which he is overrating) can somehow handle my 3 CMs without any help.

He even implied Coruna so bad ass he could handle 2v3 in midfield and also have the time to help out Junior against Lato.

this is why i say Skizzo argument is rubbish and anyone supporting his argument is just rubbish :)
 
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