Auction-Trade Madness Draft-Finals: Raees vs Enigma/TRV

[Raees]

But then again, your superior goalthreat faces a defence with 1 additional defender in it.

Of course.. thus my response will be, well do you think guys like Stoichkov and Gullit or Rivaldo can be contained with 1 v 1 defending, or will it generally require multiple defenders to keep each one of them quiet in a given attacking phase of play? in which case that extra defender can still be taken out.

Likewise Dinho will of course take out defenders as will Ronaldo, but the question is whose defence is more likely to face those situations where multiple defenders are taken out, which defenders are best equipped to deal with those situations where their colleagues have been taken out and whose attack is generally more likely to put the goals away when these situations are created.

For example Burgnich is much more likely to deal with Dinho himself, than Marcelo is versus Gullit. So Gullit will have more 2 v 1 situations which leaves that defence more exposed.

Rivaldo, Stoichkov and Seeler in particular are deadly in front of goal.

 

[Enigma_87]

Yes but then you can argue that Rivelino has 23 goals coming from when he played in Arabia.. or only 70 of Ronaldinho's goals come when playing at Barca. I think that is a weak way of trying to argue your way out of the statement, our attack is a superior threat from a sheer goal perspective. That is undeniable.

I would say from a playmaking perspective, you've got players in Rivelino/Ronaldinho.. that > my own. There is no point of me lying about that.. what I can do though is set my team up to try and minimise that advantage you have over me, but I can't deny it. Just like you can't really deny that my team has much more goalscoring potential.

Question is, how are you going to prove that your defence is capable and stronger than mine, relative to the threat of the attack you are facing.

Not really mate. Goal stats put up like that are really meaningless as we're going with who will win this tie, rather than career stats.

If we went with Bican and Ferenc Deak would that mean they are superior attacking threat than Ronaldo and Ronaldinho?

Fenomeno ripped apart 4 leagues before turning 22. You can imagine what he'd do to Oberliga Nord or the Czech league 50 years ago...

Comparing Masopust stats to Tardelli is absolutely irrelevant if you put the former in Seria A in the 80's.

Even Maradona didn't score more than 16 goals in 9 seasons there. Would that mean Rivaldo or Gullit are bigger goal threats than him? He is 34 goals in 91 games for Argentina as well. Going off just by stats doesn't do him service at all..

 

[Raees]

Not really mate. Goal stats put up like that are really meaningless as we're going with who will win this tie, rather than career stats.

If we went with Bican and Ferenc Deak would that mean they are superior attacking threat than Ronaldo and Ronaldinho?

Fenomeno ripped apart 4 leagues before turning 22. You can imagine what he'd do to Oberliga Nord or the Czech league 50 years ago...

And who said we are doubting Fenomeno? guys a beast. I am not going to sit here and shit on one of my favourite players of all time just to win a draft.

It is just common sense that guys like Stoichkov were more direct and more about goals than say someone like Ronaldinho, or that Rivaldo was much more explosive than Rivelino in front of goal - but arguably not as silky a playmaker.

 

[The Red Viper]

Ronaldo and Dinho are the fluidest of the trio while Rivellino is surely capable of being a part of such a setup as long as he is in the left and central zones. As far as I recall watching him, he didn't use his right foot often.

Positionally it looks odd to me although I understand the arrows. I think Rivellino on that side sort of plays against the fluidity and his strengths.

The idea is to have Rivelino play in that zone between the opposition defense and midfield and look to be the link between our attack and midfield. We aren't expecting Rivelino to provide width down that flank. If we were, then yes we would have been mis-utilized him. Another example of him playing in that right channel is, when he cuts in, he can cut in to his stronger foot and hammer it in! He had a peach of a left foot.

Here's Rivelino destroying opposition defenders from that zone we playing him in.

 

[Enigma_87]

And who said we are doubting Fenomeno? guys a beast. I am not going to sit here and shit on one of my favourite players of all time just to win a draft.

It is just common sense that guys like Stoichkov were more direct and more about goals than say someone like Ronaldinho, or that Rivaldo was much more explosive than Rivelino in front of goal - but arguably not as silky a playmaker.

Going off by that tho you have Tigana and Tardelli much more explosive than either of your CM pair. It's hard to better our attacking trio and you have to take into consideration if you try to stop them by fouling them - something that would be very often occasion - both Rivelino and Dinho were top notch FK takers who can turn all those opportunities into goals.

Also playing in a counter attacking setup the three of them would really thrive giving them more space to operate and face your defenders whilst running towards them - basically in their dribbling zone.

I'll be off for couple of hours and leave TRV to have his say on the game as well and come back later to address things. So that we don't double on Raees as well

 

[The Red Viper]

Ronaldo and Dinho are the fluidest of the trio while Rivellino is surely capable of being a part of such a setup as long as he is in the left and central zones. As far as I recall watching him, he didn't use his right foot often.

Positionally it looks odd to me although I understand the arrows. I think Rivellino on that side sort of plays against the fluidity and his strengths.

Here's another instance of Rivelino working his magic in that right channel and subsequently scoring.

And there are many more instances like those. Especially when he was at Corinthians. He would leave defenders for dead and use that left foot of his to hammer goals in!

 

[antohan]

Raees front 4 looks a bit off. Something about that dynamic doesn't feel right.

Unorthodox maybe but works a treat for me, particularly when you also factor in the immense workrate of both wide players.

It may be a simple disappointment on the fact that Rivera missed out on the final but I think that Rivera would've been a better fit for Seeler-Stoichkov-Gullit here. Don't think that there's much between them in terms of sheer talent, but stylistically with those three I would've had Rivera.

I haven't followed and it's always disappointing when a key regular gets dropped in a final, particularly one like Rivera who deserves better in our drafts.

That said, I think Rivaldo will work superbly with Seeler much like he did with Kluivert. I'm no Rivaldo fanboi but he was deadly as the second striker for a selfless frontman like Seeler, more so than in the Brazil trident if you ask me.

On the flipside, Masopust being there can make up for much of what Rivera has on Rivaldo (playmaking from deep).

We wanted Rivaldo indeed for that proven trio, but as we tried to explain in the OP Rivelino isn't half bad either and perhaps individually and stylistically even better fit due to his playmaking ability, work rate and still proven goalscoring record.

Are you taking the piss? Rivelino is far better suited to that role. You also have to factor in this should be peak Goofy, not the willing/accommodating final piece of 2002 which rounded it off. Rivelino takes on that mantle expertly, doing a better job than either of the other two.

So underrated. I would even argue he was more responsible for bringing coherence to the insanity of throwing 5 #10s together on a pitch than Pelé himself (in fairness, they all found their place somehow but Rivelino had the harder job to fit in).

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

At first glance it likes Raees tactic works very well to counter Enigma's plan. Enigma has a fabulously front three but Raees defense of Figeuroa-Chumpitaz with Varela in front and Burgnich on the side and Neuer in goal is IMO pretty much a perfect counter to a Ronaldo-Dinho-Rivellino three. I feel like Enigma could used an extra attacker/midfielder here instead of the extra defender. Seems like Raees tactic and personnel are set up to counter the opposition better.

 

[antohan]

At first glance it likes Raees tactic works very well to counter Enigma's plan. Enigma has a fabulously front three but Raees defense of Figeuroa-Chumpitaz with Varela in front and Burgnich on the side and Neuer in goal is IMO pretty much a perfect counter to a Ronaldo-Dinho-Rivellino three. I feel like Enigma could used an extra attacker/midfielder here instead of the extra defender. Seems like Raees tactic and personnel are set up to counter the opposition better.

Agreed and that's what settles my vote. Can't think of a better pairing than Figueroa-Chumpitaz to stop O Fenómeno.

 

[harms]

Went with Raees; a simpler team that'll work great — funnily enough, it was something that his side lacked in the previous rounds in my opinion, a well-thought simplicity.

 

[The Red Viper]

I have to disagree that you can stop Peak Ronaldo completely.

Also, with Ronaldo keeping Figueroa and Chumpitaz occupied, it allows others like Ronaldinho, Rivelino, Tardelli, Marcelo etc to thrive and come up decisive moments in attack.

Ronaldinho with Marcelo overlapping from that flank will completely dominate the game. Here's Peak Ronaldinho toying against that great defensive set-up of AC Milan. Gattuso and Nesta who were superior defensive players had a hard time stopping him. With Figueroa and Chumpitaz already pre-occupied with Ronaldo, Ronaldinho will absolutely thrive here.

 

[harms]

Now to Ronaldinho gifs It's so hard to vote against Ronaldo-Ronaldinho-Rivellino!

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Agreed and that's what settles my vote. Can't think of a better pairing than Figueroa-Chumpitaz to stop O Fenómeno.

Yes. The other factor for me is Enigma and RV's 3/5 at the back allows Junior to a lot of time and space on the ball to play make in that inside-left channel.

 

[antohan]

Yes. The other factor for me is Enigma and RV's 3/5 at the back allows Junior to a lot of time and space on the ball to play make in that inside-left channel.

Indeed, must be one of very few times Junior's best attributes get used effectively. I include myself in that. Despite my best efforts to use him properly it never made sense to tailor the team/system to him.

 

[Enigma_87]

Are you taking the piss? Rivelino is far better suited to that role. You also have to factor in this should be peak Goofy, not the willing/accommodating final piece of 2002 which rounded it off. Rivelino takes on that mantle expertly, doing a better job than either of the other two.

So underrated. I would even argue he was more responsible for bringing coherence to the insanity of throwing 5 #10s together on a pitch than Pelé himself (in fairness, they all found their place somehow but Rivelino had the harder job to fit in).

Yeah, was a tongue in cheek mate. Rivelino is a great fit for our side and would definitely thrive in this setup.

 

[Enigma_87]

A bit more on the duo up front - Ronaldo and young Ronaldinho tearing apart a very strong Argie side.

You can't really get bored of those two.

 

[Gio]

A lot to like about both attacks in terms of synergy and quality. The Rivaldo/Seeler partnership would be devastating together, while Rivaldo packed plenty of pedigree on the ball inside the full-back to feed Stoichkov/Gullit and ensure that Rivera isn't overly missed.

Two juggernauts altogether. Only obvious separation for me is Raees' defence look better suited to the individual assignments in front of them, whereas I don't have quite the same confidence in the wide axes of Gentile/Zambrotta and Marcelo/Vidic shutting out what's motoring inbetween them.

 

[Raees]

RIVALDO - BRAZIL'S DEVIL TO PELE'S GOD

Zico was renowned for being named the 'White Pele' but when you compare where they played and their style of play, there wasn't much of a similarity to them positionally. One was a free-roaming final third player and the other was your quintessential number 10 albeit one who scored a shit tonne of goals. In fact Brazil, never really produced a second striker of Pele's level i.e. a superstar until Rivaldo grew to prominence. Where someone like Bebeto will always be seen as a foil to Romario, Rivaldo was a star in his own right and he shared certain similarities with the great man.. the ability to roam across the final third, a love of set pieces and a powerful punt from distance, a taste for the spectacular, bringing out the best of other superstars around him, wriggling through tight spaces with magical close control and using his body to protect the ball like his life depended on it.

That said, they couldn't be more different in terms of physique and personality which in turn greatly affected not just the nature of their all-round games (Pele could also function as a 9, could beat more players, had more playfulness) but also the perception people had of them. Pele was arguably one of the best athletic specimens of all time in the game of football, Rivaldo on the other hand was anything but. Pele was a marketing dream and an ambassador beyond compare with his beaming smile, Rivaldo was an ugly scowling corrupt wizard who begrudged the world and everything in it.. and used tricks not out of joy, but with the intention to deceive opponents and gain revenge.

Malnourishment

Rivaldo grew up exceedingly poor, even by the standards of South American football players. Home was in the impoverished far north of Brazil - one reason, incidentally, he has advanced as to why Brazilian fans from the richer and more densely populated south have never taken to him. He suffered from serious malnutrition as a child, which perhaps explains his amazingly bandy, stick-man legs. As a boy ('I will never forget the hunger I used to feel,' he has said) he would supplement the meagre family income by selling drinks and sweets on the beach.

Growing up with two brothers and two sisters in poverty, Rivaldo, aged 11, sold snacks outside schools in Recife to earn extra money. His father fully supported his desire to become a footballer while his mother pleaded with him to go to school. To get to his first training sessions at his local football club he would walk 10 miles each way. Football won, but his father never saw his son fulfil his dreams. In 1989, Romildo Borreira died after being run over by a bus.

So Rivaldo was left without his father and without any education. And it has showed. Shy, introvert even he has always found it difficult to adapt in professional football, carrying with him an inferiority complex compounded by a difficult upbringing.

Autism

A leading Barcelona football writer made the point that Rivaldo suffered from 'a kind of autism'. 'In this day and age a football superstar cannot let his feet do the talking the way maybe he could in the past,' the Catalan football writer said. 'He also needs to be a bit of a populist. Rivaldo has no idea how to play that game.'

He didn't. In 2002 watching Beckham in action in Japan, flashing his easy smile and making a point of thanking the Japanese for their wonderful hospitality and so forth (even hinting he might eventually play in Japan), offered a reminder of how much more refined a politician he was than the Brazilian whose left foot was as good, as exquisitely honed, as the Englishman's right. Rivaldo simply had no idea what signals to emit, either off the pitch or on it, to win over the love of the multitudes.

Hence he is probably the most underrated and easily forgotten out of the 90's legends, yet in pure footballing terms he might well have been the very best of the lot, or at worst at least should have been rated higher than say the likes of Zidane for that era.

Bronca

Nevertheless, what he did have in his favour was bronca, the word used repeatedly in Diego Maradona's autobiography to refer to "anger, fury, hatred, resentment, bitter discontent ... [it was] his motivator, his fuel, his driving force". Zidane had rage blackouts, but he was rarely in a high state of bronca: for the most part, as we saw in his movie, he was a wonderfully still footballer, whose game existed in a vacuum of technical perfection, such as the volley in the 2002 Champions League final. But he could not win a game on his own by imposing his personality all over it. Rivaldo could.

Rivaldo often looked apathetic and sullen – his smile was so rare that, when it came, it broke a thousand mirrors, and at times he seemed to dither like a posh boy pretending to have commitment issues – but when the mood took him and he fancied the challenge, he pursued it with the remorseless will and purpose of Javier Bardem in No Country For Old Men. "You know how this is gonna turn out, don't you?"

Comparisons with Zidane...

John Carlin wrote that Rivaldo "combines to dazzling effect the two essential qualities of the ideal footballer: artistry and efficiency". The same could not necessarily be said of Zidane. Sir Alex Ferguson once observed that Zidane didn't really "hurt" teams and, while it sounded sacrilegious, there was a degree of truth in it. In terms of ball retention he was probably the greatest player of all time, blessed with such grace and supernatural awareness that he could play a game of real-life Pac-Man and never be caught, but to some extent his work was done in less dangerous areas. He needed good players alongside him.

A team of 11 Zidanes would kill you time and time again, but a team of 10 Nevilles and a Rivaldo could on occasion do the same. Zidane was an avant-garde footballer, as rich in subtext as it is possible for a sportsman to be, whereas Rivaldo was a rudimentary blockbuster. Yet the suspicion remains that some appreciate Zidane without knowing exactly what they're appreciating; that they are perpetuating a discourse for fear of being seen as a philistine. Nobody wants to admit that they thought Citizen Kane was crap.

The cerebral genius of Zidane, nonetheless, makes him the ultimate fantasy footballer, whereas Rivaldo was the ultimate Fantasy Footballer: he dealt relentlessly in the hard currency of goals (86 in 159 games for Barcelona and 34 in 74 for Brazil, outstanding for a player who invariably played on the left) and assists. And if there were another category by which we judged players – coronaries induced in opposing fans when they get the ball within 30 yards of goal – he would surely be top. When he was on one, he was utterly terrifying.

Three examples spring to mind. There was his coconut-shy at an inspired Paul Robinson in a Champions League group game against Leeds in 2000, when Rivaldo finally equalised in the last minute to (temporarily) postpone Barcelona's exit; an astonishing tour de force against Manchester United in 1998 when, in a game Barcelona had to win to avoid elimination, he equalised twice before creaming an unbelievable shot off the bar and ingeniously creating another gilt-edged chance for Giovanni; but best of all there was the greatest hat-trick of all time, against Valencia on June 17, 2001, a midsummer night's dream of a performance that deserves a book, a film and even a Tim Lovejoy tribute all of its own.

In a straight shoot-out for the final Champions League place, which was worth tens of millions and even more in terms of pride, Barcelona needed a win and Valencia a draw. Twice Rivaldo screamed Barcelona ahead from long range, the second hit with such fury that it knocked him off his feet; twice Ruben Baraja equalised. Then, in the 89th minute, he scored with an overhead kick from outside the box so perfectly executed that it even swerved away from the dive of Santiago Canizares. Even now, it beggars belief.

Style of Play (Analysis)

Apart from a right foot, Rivaldo had everything. His wiry strength allowed him to bounce off defenders, he was a outstanding dribbler, and he had a left foot that was both educated and thuggish, subtle and a sledgehammer. He could larrup the ball in, arrow a daisy-cutter a few centimetres inside the far post (the winner against Denmark in the 1998 World Cup quarter-final is the best example, but there were so many), coax a free-kick high or low, left or right, and also pass the ball in (how underrated the precision of his finish against England in 2002 remains). He also possessed excellent tactical awareness, always knowing when the game required him to drift out wide and constantly seeking space. You'll note than in the big games he rarely if ever just got marked out of a game and that is testament to his versatility on the pitch and his intelligence.. you just couldn't get too close to him as he'd always find a way to get past you with or without the ball and give him too much space and he could unleash that hammer.

• Wiry Strength

Rivaldo was incredibly strong, which is remarkable to say when you take a look at him but this was a guy who thrived on and enjoyed being 'kicked'. It was his way of gaining a psychological advantage over an opponent, drawing a concession from the opponent that he was too good to defeat by fair means. It was a 'Maradonaesque' quality which made him particularly effective against the best opponents, where the bigger players couldn't stand the fact that someone would dare mock them in open court and that an individual seem so brazen in holding on to the ball as if it was there own.

What made his hold up play even more effective was that he was very light on his feet and very agile, this meant he could roll his foot over the ball, or cruyff turn or do any manner of footwork even whilst in a shielding stance and wriggle his way through physical encounters. The fact he was so slim, made him incredibly elusive and due to his height - he could chest down long balls and bring it down, and generally was just incredibly well-equipped to bring any manner of pass down with aplomb. Cruyff was another who despite his height and slim frame (usually a recipe for disaster in terms of hold up play) had top notch hold up play. A favourite move of his was allowing opponents to get close, feel their body struggling to push him over and then wickedly flicking it over their heads in humiliation.

• Creativity (Passing & Crossing)

When he wasn't being ridiculously audacious with his countless Rabona passes, he was an outstanding crosser.. as good as the likes of Dzajic or Beckham albeit he wasn't constantly stationed out wide. In the middle of the park, he could spread the play with any range of pass and he was also a superb killer passer but his best asset was his link up play, great short incisive passer with lots of one touch flicks and clever round the corner passes.

• Spectacular goals/Finishing

Not much to be said about this, but like Pele.. Rivaldo could score any type of goal, from anywhere at will. It was all executed effortlessly. Chips, Lobs, Volleys, Long range lace efforts or curls, bicycle kicks.. he had exceptional shot technique and is no doubt one of the best of all time for his range of goals scored.

• Set Pieces

Rivaldo was an incredibly devastating and complete set piece taker as United fans know all too well. His favoured method was the curl ala Beckham, but Rivaldo's left foot had more power behind it and it was a hard whip, which allowed him to score more from further out than Beckham's trademark 25-30 yard radius. Closer to goal, he could strike under the wall with laces but generally preferred to use the 'falling leaf' technique, where he'd barely lift it over the wall and watch it fall in beside the keeper. He could also hammer it with power if a short pass was made as a change up option.

• Dribbling/Tricks

Out wide or slaloming through the centre, Rivaldo was an incredibly unpredictable ball-carrier. He had a cliched 'deceptive change of pace' which meant you could never quite tell if he could outpace you but then while the defender was thinking about keeping up with him, he'd burst past you and then go on to beat another two. Pre 2000's he was super nippy, and his acceleration often gets underrated in the midst of his other qualities but it was a key factor underpinning the remainder of his game.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Perhaps I'll just ban all fancy formation pics that are not usual sharemytactics size for next draft.

I don't mind fancy pics as such - but the basic format (the dimensions) should at least be the same. This looks messy. What you want as a scan voter (heh!) is to look quickly at the formations and imagine how they'd move about against each other.

Then check whether anyone has misspelled any player names - and vote for the other fecker if necessary.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Only obvious separation for me is Raees' defence look better suited to the individual assignments in front of them, whereas I don't have quite the same confidence in the wide axes of Gentile/Zambrotta and Marcelo/Vidic shutting out what's motoring inbetween them.

Yeah, same.

I think Raees is downplaying the opposition quality in certain areas too much (central midfield, not least - there's nothing between Tigana/Tardelli and Masopust/Varela in terms of pure quality for me, the highlighted difference(s) portrayed as advantageous won't make a difference in an all-time GOAT fest like this) - but his team makes more sense: There's nothing there that looks even slightly dubious, whereas the opposition has some minor problem areas.

Don't quite fancy that trio in the middle, and I don't think Vidic/Marcelo is an ideal "combo" (as others have mentioned) against R's attackers.

 

[Raees]

Commiserations @Enigma_87 @The Red Viper ... think the key was securing Rivaldo, if you had got the three 'R's.. it might have been game over for me!

 

[Raees]

@Edgar Allan Pillow thanks for running the draft and @Invictus this one belongs to you as well

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Ah, congrats @Raees @Invictus

Hard luck @Enigma_87 @The Red Viper

 

[The Red Viper]

Thanks for running this, @Edgar Allan Pillow . Was a fun draft to participate.

And Congrats, @Raees and @Invictus . Well Played.

 

[The Red Viper]

Commiserations @Enigma_87 @The Red Viper ... think the key was securing Rivaldo, if you had got the three 'R's.. it might have been game over for me!

Yeah.

Rivelino was a better player than Rivaldo.

But Ronaldo - Rivaldo - Ronaldinho as a trio would have been absolute beastly.

Having said that, I feel you did a great job of completely re-tooling your team and negating our attacking threat. In hindsight, we should have waited before going for Zambrotta. This is a game where we could have really used Robben's x-factor and explosiveness. Once we went for Zambrotta, we didn't have much flexibility to counter your moves. There were a few moves we could have made I guess but wouldn't have ended up with a better team imo.

 

[Raees]

Yeah.

Rivelino was a better player than Rivaldo.

But Ronaldo - Rivaldo - Ronaldinho as a trio would have been absolute beastly.

Having said that, I feel you did a great job of completely re-tooling your team and negating our attacking threat. In hindsight, we should have waited before going for Zambrotta. This is a game where we could have really used Robben's x-factor and explosiveness. Once we went for Zambrotta, we didn't have much flexibility to counter your moves. There were a few moves we could have made I guess but wouldn't have ended up with a better team imo.

Its funny but when I bidded for Gullit, at that stage I was just going to keep Pele.. but it was only after I saw Zambrotta etc.. i thought feck.. if they get the 3 R's, as a combo that entire side would just look so damn strong.

 

[Enigma_87]

Congratulations @Raees ! Well deserved mate and finally a win as well Happy for you and the effort you put in here as well as @Invictus played a good part in it as well.

Great reinforcement strategy and in the end revamped the whole team to counter our strengths.

 

[Invictus]

No need to tag me, lads — I did nothing in the business end of the competition.

That aside, well done @Enigma_87 and @The Red Viper — hell of a team that with two of my favorite midfielders in close to peak pivot roles; and cheers @Edgar Allan Pillow for hosting this.

And obviously, congratulations @Raees on popping you draft cherry — hopefully the first of many more to come.

Rivelino was a better player than Rivaldo.

Disagree with this assessment from a neutral standpoint, mate. You could argue that Rivelino was a more well-rounded footballer than Rivaldo considering his superior ability in terms of playmaking, workrate and the length of performance at a fairly high level - but Rivaldo was more dynamic, caused pandemonium in the ranks of opposition players and managers at his peak, and produced a ton of decisive performances at club level and for the Seleção (particularly at the World Cups):







Reckon Rivaldo was a wee bit better, fine margins and all - though a bit underrated in the pantheon of Brazilian greats. And in a one off draft game in particular, I'd almost always take Rivaldo over Rivelino, unless it's for a slightly deeper attacking midfield role or as a tucked in left playmaker - for which Rivelino is perfect (and one the best options after Charlton, Iniesta and Laudrup - stylistic and slight functional differences aside).

 

[antohan]

Its funny but when I bidded for Gullit, at that stage I was just going to keep Pele.. but it was only after I saw Zambrotta etc.. i thought feck.. if they get the 3 R's, as a combo that entire side would just look so damn strong.

To be honest, you guys are making far too much out of that 3 Rs thing.

I appreciate the marketing value of reuniting them, but that trio, all being at peak, would have worked better with Rivelino. Conversely, I think Rivaldo added far more value to you. If you had Rivera there I would have quite probably voted for the other side as Seeler would have been completely isolated and Masopust would seem completely pointless.

When you have Seeler you want someone who can fully exploit his excellent work serving opportunities on a plate to those around him, and few would have revelled in that as much as Rivaldo.

The constant to and fro over the 3 Rs indicates it was a bit of an accident, but what you definitely had going for you was that a large chunk of your team where deployed in such a way that they would have played to their very best in a way I have never seen so clearly before:

• Chumpitaz vs. Ronaldo, and Figueroa as the perfect foil
• Junior playmaking from the left
• Masopust in full flight as a playmaker once Rivera is out of the picture
• Varela doing much of the heavylifting... against Brazilians. His favorite passtime
• Rivaldo/Seeler, as above
• And I'd argue even Stoichkov and Gullit have never been more at home than here, while you'd have a hard time finding better options to both torment those wingbacks and track them effectively. Both would revel in the freedom to go outside, inside, between cb and fullback... The whole Gullit vs Vidic/Marcelo debate was baffling, he would have a laugh making full use of his repertoire and thus always at the very least matching either at their strengths and destroying them on account of everything else he had and they don't.

It's been a long time since I've seen a final team where everyone looks at home rather than having a few marketing ploys peppered around.

 

[Physiocrat]

To be honest, you guys are making far too much out of that 3 Rs thing.

I appreciate the marketing value of reuniting them, but that trio, all being at peak, would have worked better with Rivelino. .

QFT. Rivelino in 10 with Ronaldinho/Rivaldo as SS with Ronaldo as ST is the best setup for them