Auction-Trade Madness Draft-Finals: Raees vs Enigma/TRV

with players at career peak, who will win this match?


  • Total voters
    26
  • Poll closed .

Edgar Allan Pillow

Ero-Sennin
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
42,037
Location
┴┬┴┤( ͡° ͜ʖ├┬┴┬
jaSBgK2.jpg
VS
GHlzxOE.png


................................................................ TEAM RAEES ................................................................................................................... TEAM ENIGMA / TRV ............................................

TEAM RAEES

Formation: 4-2-4 (with 4 fluid forwards*)


5 Key Points
  • Robust rearguard... Burgnich not venturing forward, and Varela holding give the team an immense stability in a defensive sense and the fact they're supporting players such as the likes of Chumpitaz and Don Elias.. means it will take something exceptional to score one let alone two goals past our side. Rivelino's lack of pace and not being able to play in his favoured position on the left, means he'll be coming up against guys like Varela and Figueroa.. and Dinho won't find it easy with Burgnich breathing down his neck and then finding Varela in the midfield when he cuts in.

  • Super-compatible midfield duo oozing with leadership, determination and class ... A wonderful midfield pairing full of aggression and leadership. Whereas Tigana and Tardelli were generally more support players in their respective sides, Masopust was the shining light for the 1962 World cup finalists and their dynamic playmaker and Varela was the colossus who inspired Uruguay to unassailable heights in 1950. Masopust can dictate the play with freedom knowing full well Varela has his back, but he will no doubt also put in a shift going backwards too.

  • Gullit v Marcelo 'a devastating mismatch'... As much as I love Marcelo and I myself declare him the best left back ITW... this is just a real bad match up for him in a tactical sense and I don't think having Vidic there helps, as they both just lack that top level athleticism to keep a specimen like Gullit quiet when he's running at them with pace, power and precision. If that isn't enough, Marcelo's best assets will be neutered by Gullit's defensive work-rate. If there is one right midfielder you'd back to keep tabs on a Marcelo.. its Gullit, with his endeavour, strength and nous.

  • Seeler and Rivaldo, ideal orchestrators who will conduct beautiful symphonies from the Fab Four... we have two incredibly intelligent footballers at 9 and 10, who will set the tone in terms of constantly finding pockets of space and linking up with or playing in the more brutish and incisive Stoichkov and Gullit. Seeler was a wonderfully complete forward who was a 9.5, a false 9 and traditional 9 rolled into one and Rivaldo was winger/AM/SS and at times 9 all in one. They could be effective from anywhere and that gives guys like Stoichkov and Gullit licence to roam, knowing Seevaldo can occupy their berths if need be.

  • The sheer brute physicality of our side from goalkeeper to up front... A physical monster in goals, physically robust players across the defence bar arguably Chumpitaz (who was still squat and strong), dynamos in midfield, and in Gullit, Stoichkov and Seeler.. powerhouses in attack. Even Rivaldo was immensely strong and one of the best shielders of the ball in the modern game, capable of holding the ball up against anyone (just don't aim for his face though!).
THE DEFENCE

Manuel Neuer
is one of the best keepers in the draft and of all time. Given his trademark style of play in terms of using his feet in the build-up phase or launching counters with his hands, he can be the ideal genesis of several attacks as well.

In the heart of defense, we have someone who's a seamless fit with just about anyone and one of the few GOAT caliber defenders to boast sweeper level technique and defensive nous in addition to the physique and athleticism of some of the best stoppers over the years. Could wax lyrical all day long, but to cut a long story short, Don Elías Figueroa is quite simply one of the greatest ever and undoubtedly the greatest and most complete from the South American continent.



To the right of him is another legendary centerback - El Capitán de America, Héctor Chumpitaz - widely regarded as one of the best central defenders in history and as one of the true Sudamerican greats - alongside the likes of Santamaría and Nasazzi.

A quick, resolute and powerful figure belying his small-ish frame, Chumpitaz is a seamless fit with the Don, and the collective defensive and leadership ability of the duo, on top of rare athleticism and man-marking ability will help safeguard the central zones against Ro-Ro.

To the left of Chumpitaz is one of the most most tactically malleable players of all time, Leovegildo Júnior. A world class player as leftback, box-to-box playmaker, or defensive midfielder, here Júnior will operate as a playmaking leftback who can dovetail wonderfully with Masopust while boasting good levels of defensive awareness given the relatively complete nature of his game and the intelligence with which he operated on the pitch:



Completing the defence is 'The Rock', Taricisio Burgnich - Burgnich remains the gold standard as a defensive right back and he will look to tuck in besides Chumpitaz (as he did for Picchi in the Grande Inter side of the mid-60's. Not many players could mark Ronaldinho in his prime, but then again he never quite faced a Vogts or a Burgnich who will endeavour to stick to him like glue. Their barging battle will be one to savour.

THE MIDFIELD

Patrolling the midfield area is El Negro Jeffe Obdulio Varela - the man who brought Brazil to its knees in 1950, and led Uruguay to the summit of the football world in front of a hostile 200,000 strong Maracanã Stadium. Given the up-tempo nature of our team, the talismanic Varela is going to be the center of gravity player - involved in both breaking down the opposition moves and instigating the build-up play from the back with efficient passes primarily to the slaloming wizard alongside him. To the left of him is arguably the finest left-half in football history and the first Eastern European Ballon D'Or winner, Josef Masopust - a dominant force in his half of the field, he will play a big part in our build-up play with his strength in possession, drag markers slightly wider towards his favorite inside and outside left channels (thus providing auxiliary width), and link up with the forwards with his ability to go on surging runs.

THE ATTACK

Spearheading the attack is one of the most clinical and complete strikers of all time, with 43 goals in 72 games for Germany and an incredible 404 in 476 for Hamburg, ranking him as the 7th highest goalscorer of all time Uwe Seeler. Now, in my opinion, every team needs a presence up front who can take the attention of the central defenders and distract them. On top of that, this presence should also be a reliable goalscorer who will make the most of the supply that he gets. On top of that, this presence needs solid ball control and skills in order to resist the challenge of the defenders and link up with other dynamic players around him. Finally, this presence must be good in the air and strong on the floor so that he isn't bullied out of the game. For me, Uwe Seeler fit that profile perfectly, and he is the perfect final jigsaw to my puzzle.

Behind him we have three Ballon D'or winners... to the left of him we have Hristo Stoichkov who was the perfect blend of flair and ruthlessness. He was just as likely to create something out of that lovely left peg of his as he was to pounce on a minor defensive error in brutal fashion. He was as complete an attacker as it could get - physically, technically and most importantly, mentally - almost taking Bulgaria to a world cup triumph and winning the European Cup for Barca.

On the opposite flank is Ruud Gullit, The Black Tulip - A complete and versatile player, Gullit epitomised the ethos of Total Football as he was naturally adept in several positions, and was capable of aiding his team defensively as well as offensively due to his work-rate, ball-winning abilities, and tactical intelligence in addition to his skill and physical qualities. Regarded as one of the greatest players of all-time,[24] his foremost attribute was his athleticism, as he used his strength and speed, combined with his technique, to great effect; he was also strong in the air, as he was tall, powerful, and an excellent jumper. Yet, unusually for a man of his stature, Gullit was an elegant player, who also possessed outstanding natural balance, poise, technical ability, and dribbling skills, which gave a graceful style to his game.Gullit also was noted for his intelligence, creativity, vision, and spatial abilities, qualities that helped him score goals early in his career and enabled him to play in a deeper role as a playmaker late in his days, where he was known for creating chances for teammates. Gullit thus combined physical presence with flair, mental acuity, formidable technique and natural touch, to become an iconic figure in world football.

"Ruud Gullit is a great player by any standards. He has all the skills. He's not afraid to do things with the ball. And he looks as if he's enjoying every second of it. By my reckoning that's what makes him an even better player than Maradona. Both have the key quality you will find in all the best players: balance. You just can't knock them off the ball. It was the same with Pelé, Beckenbauer and Cruyff." George Best

And in a free second striker/10 role akin to his peak at Barcelona is Rivaldo - a true genius of Brazilian football, who is usually used in wider roles (when attempting to shoehorn many great players which tended to happen for the NT) but here is given full berth to showcase his full array of skills...top tier dribbling, long shots, volleys, incredible vision and range of passing, not to mention a deadly finisher. For Barcelona, he tended to play in the hole in a free-roaming role and his great shielding ability, meant he drew a lot of attention but was able to wriggle his way through destroying the likes of Redondo at his peak and scoring two goals even against midfields run by the likes of Roy Keane.

TEAM ENIGMA / TRV

Formation: 5-2-3 to 5-3-2 fluid, counter attacking.
Defensive line: normal
Style: very direct, fast tempo. Open up the flanks and stretch the play with Marcelo and Zambrotta, making the pitch as wide as possible to create one-on-one situations for Ronaldo, Ronaldinho and Rivellino to exploit. No matter how good a defender you are, you aren't stopping any of Ronaldo, Ronaldinho and Rivellino, in one-on-one situations. Compact in midfield and at the back.

Also, once we win back the possession, we would utilize Sammer's vision and passing range by having him initiate swift counter attacks and catching Raees' defense out of position or in one-on-one situations where Ronaldo, Ronaldinho and Rivellino can run his defense ragged.

Short team profiles:

(GK) De Gea - steadily becoming one of the best keepers to have graced the game. Imperious for United and probably the outstanding player we have had since Fergie retired.
(LB/LWB) Marcelo Vieira - Probably the best attacking modern day full back. Marcelo has won 4 La Liga titles and 3 CL medals to his name, being absolutely vital for both attack and defence at Real. Another big game player who doesn't shy under pressure.
(RB/RCB) Claudio Gentile - Rugged ruthless defender - one of the centerpieces in the most successful Juve side in the late 70's, early 80's. Excellent defender becoming notorious for marking out players like Maradona and Zico quite successfully and limiting their game and effect on the match at the highest level.
(Libero) Matthias Sammer - not many defenders have won the Ballon D'or on the back of great defensive displays both for club and country. A colossal figure and modern day Beckenbauer he wasn't that far off from his predecessor in terms of quality.
(LCB) Nemanja Vidic - One of the best United defenders of all time. Excellent pure defender but also monster in the air.
(RWF) Gianluca Zambrotta - right up there with the best attacking Italian wing-back/full backs of all time. A force going forward he'll stretch the opposition defence.
(LCM) Jean Tigana - From Claude Makelele to Didier Deschamps and even now N'Golo Kante, France have had some geniuses in this position, but none finer than Jean Tigana. A really classy central midfielder, Tigana had it all; stamina, technique, vision. He won 52 caps for the national team, winning the European Championships and making two World Cup semi-finals. Tigana was runner-up to compatriot Michel Platini in the 1984 Ballon d'Or.
(RCM) Marco Tardelli - Hard tackling midfielder, epitomizing the Catenaccio era, but very skillful on the ball and excellent in transition, alongside Tigana forms a top notch midfield unit.
(AM/SS) Rivelino - Integral part of Brazil's best team ever he was one of those players who can dribble you in a phone booth and was an example for the younger generation. He possessed enormous flair and talent with a cannonball of a shot(named “The Atomic Kick”).


(SS) Ronaldinho - Another Ballon D'or winner and at his peak there are very few that can claim to be better. True artist of the game who could take any defence apart in his heyday.
(CF) Ronaldo - The best #9 in the game.


Team tactics and style:
Defence -
marshaled by Sammer, our defence is complimented a rugged defender in Gentile who will man-mark Rivaldo and one of the greatest stoppers in the modern game, who is also one of the finest defenders in the air - Vidic. Marcelo will be an attacking wing back stretching the opposition defence and providing width on the left, like Zambrotta on the right. Sammer will play in his natural role whilst Vidic and Gentile will stay back when he surges in and one of our double pivot midfielders will cover for him when he overloads the midfield.
Midfield - Tigana and Tardelli will form the double pivot midfield base - both solid in the defensive phase and able to contribute forward. Rivellino will be no stranger to the midfield battle as his work rate is well appreciated.
Attack - The best #9 in the game, complimented by a proven partnership in Ronaldinho, bot of whom will get plenty of support both from the flanks and Marcelo on the left and Rivelino centrally. A great attacking unit with plenty of flair - Ronaldinho, Rivelino, Ronaldo, top class finisher in the box in Fenomeno and goalscoring threats out wide in our wing-backs. Our attack would be very difficult to handle with plenty of pace, technique and ruthless finishing.

Advantages:
Attack -
obviously our main focal point is our fearsome attack. Ronaldo, Ronaldinho and Rivelino is one of the most (if not the) entertaining attack that graced the game. Not only they are awesome individually but compliment pretty well each other. Ronaldo with his natural game and slaloming runs and excellent finishing. Ronaldinho with his creativity and ability to unlock any defence and Rivellino with his cannon of a left foot, playmaking ability and top notch work rate. Our attack will interchange and confuse its markers a lot like 2002 Brazil, but this time round the peak versions of Ronaldinho and Ronaldo.
Midfield - our midfield is an excellent base to build our attacking unit and can hold their own against pretty much every other midfield pair in history. Both Tardelli and Tigana are in their zone here breaking up play and launching quick counter attacks finding our attacking trio or stretching the game on the flanks. Our midfield line is very dynamic and has the edge on energy, stamina and work rate throughout the 90 minutes.
Defence - the opposition defence boasts with some excellent defenders namely Chumpitaz and Figueroa, but our defence isn't far off. We have one of the best markers in history in Gentile and Sammer in his Ballon D'or winning form and right into his zone, flanked by two top notch stoppers. Gentile will man mark Rivaldo - this suffocating the opposition main creative force in the attacking third and we will be very compact at the back with nice mixture of defensive ability and ability at dealing with crosses.

Individual battles - Raees has done a pretty good job picking some of his defenders and Varela to fit against our attack, but despite being good fits, Burgnich won't stop Ronaldinho or Rivellino when facing them time and time on the pitch and as good as Figueroa/Chumpitaz are Raees defence will get stretched by Marcelo and Zambrotta leaving space for Ronaldo in the middle.

With Burgnich most likely marking Ronaldinho and Varela most likely marking Rivellino, we would look to take them out of their comfort zones and have them defend Ronaldinho and Rivellino in zones they aren't comfortable defending especially one-on-one. This will create some sort of chaos in his defense and more importantly leave their midfield extremely open to be exploited. And, in Tardelli, Tigana and Sammer we have the perfect players who can exploit that by making their trademark penetrating runs through the midfield. And as they have often showed, that too in the big stages, Tardelli, Tigana and Sammer can be the difference makers with their off the ball runs as they can pop up with vital goals or assists.
 
Last edited:
@harms

How about we focus on the football side of things? what are your thoughts on the actual teams?
 
Raees front 4 looks a bit off. Something about that dynamic doesn't feel right.

Vidic at LCB esp covering for Marcelo is not really final worthy flank.
Vidic is a great defender mate. Sure he has problems with short nippy and fast players, but we have a setup that wouldn't expose him as we aren't playing in a high line and have excellent defensive cover. Plus physically he's a great fit for Gullit.

Marcelo is playing alongside 3 man backline, so he isn't really exposed either. He's one of the full backs that you can count on covering the whole flank on his own.
 
Great compilation of Rivelino, showcasing his full talent.



And of course one of my favorite Fenomeno videos:


:drool:
with a bonus:



:D
 
Vidic is a great defender mate. Sure he has problems with short nippy and fast players, but we have a setup that wouldn't expose him as we aren't playing in a high line and have excellent defensive cover. Plus physically he's a great fit for Gullit.

Marcelo is playing alongside 3 man backline, so he isn't really exposed either. He's one of the full backs that you can count on covering the whole flank on his own.

I disagree there, coping with Gullit's strength is one thing.. for example Drogba v Vidic was usually a great ding dong battle..



But Gullit has that nimbleness, acceleration and balance which would leave Vidic exposed. He'd burst past him with ease and I can't see Marcelo being much use against him either.

 
@harms

How about we focus on the football side of things? what are your thoughts on the actual teams?
Please don't take offense. The picture was so big that it was hard for me to even visualise things, and it looked a bit grotesque in that size — I had to make my own tactical board on sharemytactics. It's better now.

Will comment later, haven't decided yet. Enigma's side is a little light on goals compared to your guys, but, to be fair, it won't be a goal fest with those defences, so 1 goal from, say, Ronaldo may suffice.
 
Please don't take offense. The picture was so big that it was hard for me to even visualise things, and it looked a bit grotesque in that size — I had to make my own tactical board on sharemytactics. It's better now.

Will comment later, haven't decided yet. Enigma's side is a little light on goals compared to your guys, but, to be fair, it won't be a goal fest with those defences, so 1 goal from, say, Ronaldo may suffice.

No don't worry.. just wish Ed had asked me for smaller pic before starting the game. Might have cost me some votes already :mad:
 
Vidic is a great defender mate. Sure he has problems with short nippy and fast players, but we have a setup that wouldn't expose him as we aren't playing in a high line and have excellent defensive cover. Plus physically he's a great fit for Gullit.

You'll rarely hear a bad word about Vidic from me, but this role is just not for him. He really lacks the pace to cover out wide. Though physically a match for Gullit, I see him getting dragged wide on the counter.
 
No don't worry.. just wish Ed had asked me for smaller pic before starting the game. Might have cost me some votes already :mad:

Dude, it all shows the same on phone. I just logged in my laptop just now to set up the match, so didn't notice it before.

Perhaps I'll just ban all fancy formation pics that are not usual sharemytactics size for next draft.
 
It may be a simple disappointment on the fact that Rivera missed out on the final but I think that Rivera would've been a better fit for Seeler-Stoichkov-Gullit here. Don't think that there's much between them in terms of sheer talent, but stylistically with those three I would've had Rivera. The additional goalthreat that Brazilian adds isn't really needed, with Seeler and Stoichkov being absolutely clinical and Gullit having a great goalscoring record too.

I understand that it was as much about having Rivaldo as it was about Enigma not having him though.
 
You'll rarely hear a bad word about Vidic from me, but this role is just not for him. He really lacks the pace to cover out wide. Though physically a match for Gullit, I see him getting dragged wide on the counter.
He really doesn't have to mate. He'll be up against Gullit with the help of Marcelo. Raees is playing a tucked in defensive right back who won't give any support in attack, hence a much easier task than having a full back winger combo.

Gullit is also a player who will cut inside so Vidic is a good match for him.
 
I disagree there, coping with Gullit's strength is one thing.. for example Drogba v Vidic was usually a great ding dong battle..



But Gullit has that nimbleness, acceleration and balance which would leave Vidic exposed. He'd burst past him with ease and I can't see Marcelo being much use against him either.



Drogba was pretty explosive mate. He also had pretty similar body strength. Gullit is not Torres or Eto'o who troubled Vidic in the past. Very different players to Gullit. We have went for Vidic for the exact type in mind.
 
It may be a simple disappointment on the fact that Rivera missed out on the final but I think that Rivera would've been a better fit for Seeler-Stoichkov-Gullit here. Don't think that there's much between them in terms of sheer talent, but stylistically with those three I would've had Rivera. The additional goalthreat that Brazilian adds isn't really needed, with Seeler and Stoichkov being absolutely clinical and Gullit having a great goalscoring record too.

I understand that it was as much about having Rivaldo as it was about Enigma not having him though.

Think Rivera would've been better option for Raees indeed as a main playmaker. Taking out Rivaldo would really stifle Raees creativity and the supply his attackers would get.

We wanted Rivaldo indeed for that proven trio, but as we tried to explain in the OP Rivelino isn't half bad either and perhaps individually and stylistically even better fit due to his playmaking ability, work rate and still proven goalscoring record.
 
SEELER AND RIVALDO COMBINATION AT 10 AND 9






@harms @Edgar Allan Pillow

The reason why I wanted Rivaldo in there is the strength aspect, it is a super underrated aspect of his game and not to mention the mentality he brings to the big occasions. He was the Best player in the world cup in 2002 and he was World Player of the year in 1999, a season in which he gave some top teams a real run for their money in the Champions League. At his peak he could go toe to toe with the most athletic B2B players and still leave them wondering how to nick the ball of him, which is important here as he has two quality midfielders in Tardelli/Tigana who would find a slower 10, more easier to pick up.

I didn't want my 10 to fall into the double trap of having to beat them both, so here we can get through both mids by having a more fluid front four which will keep that defence and midfield combo guessing. All of my front four, love the physical battle and are very very mentally tough.







In the Madrid video above, he's up against Seedorf and Redondo and Hierro and he runs rings around them, as good as Rivera was.. dynamically, he wouldn't be able to execute that same level of chaos at his pomp. Rivaldo at his peak.. had zippiness, in addition to that wiry strength and brazillian magic, that is what makes him such a fearsome prospect for Enigma to contain. If the going gets tough, Rivaldo will get going.. you can't kick him out of the game. IMO Rivaldo's big match performances are just as impressive if not more so than Dinho and he done it over a much longer period too.. for a brazillian, he was super competitive and not as lasses-faire as one would associate for a superstar from that nation.
 
Last edited:
We wanted Rivaldo indeed for that proven trio, but as we tried to explain in the OP Rivelino isn't half bad either and perhaps individually and stylistically even better fit due to his playmaking ability, work rate and still proven goalscoring record.
Yeah, no doubt. I actually wanted to post in the main threat that on paper Rivellino looks perhaps like an even better fit with peak Ronaldo and Ronaldinho (since both of them weren't at their actual peak in 2002, when Rivaldo was the best of them three), but decided to save it for the match thread.
 
It may be a simple disappointment on the fact that Rivera missed out on the final but I think that Rivera would've been a better fit for Seeler-Stoichkov-Gullit here. Don't think that there's much between them in terms of sheer talent, but stylistically with those three I would've had Rivera. The additional goalthreat that Brazilian adds isn't really needed, with Seeler and Stoichkov being absolutely clinical and Gullit having a great goalscoring record too.

I understand that it was as much about having Rivaldo as it was about Enigma not having him though.

Aye, one of my initial thoughts was that Rivera was a better fit for Raees' team than Rivaldo, and also that Enigma has lost a very credible route to goal in Robben attacking Junior by selling the Dutchman.

You'll rarely hear a bad word about Vidic from me, but this role is just not for him. He really lacks the pace to cover out wide. Though physically a match for Gullit, I see him getting dragged wide on the counter.

He covered for Evra out wide week in week out for us and rarely put a foot wrong. He wouldn't be my first choice covering versus a line-hugging speed demon like Stanley Matthews for example, but he brings alot of essential qualities to the table vs a beast like Gullit and he looks a good fit tactically for Enigma/TRV. His relative weaknesses get blown out of proportion in drafts.
 
1993.jpg


Born in Sao Paulo, Roberto Rivelino made his name famous world wide with his viscous cannon-like free-kicks, long range shooting and dribbling skills. One particularly famous move of his, called the elastic dribble, is still imitated today. It consists of running your foot over the top of the ball, making it appear before going in another direction. He scored many times with this move often leaving his opponents open-mouthed and wrong footed in his wake.

Rivelino was 24 at the time of the World Cup in Mexico. The Brazilian winning team of 1970 is regarded by many as the best soccerteam ever and it displayed some of the finest soccer ever seen with Rivelino as one of the best players. He scored three great goals including a trademark thunderous free-kick against Czechoslovakia in their first match. Four years later in West Germany, the Brazilians lacked the flair of 1970, and failed to shine thus had to settle for fourth place. Rivelino was one of few Brazilians to play up to the required level. In 1978, he was kept on the bench for most of the time. Young players like Zico waited in line to take over from the man with the moustache. Rivelino was approaching the end of his great career, but showed in a few flashes what he was capable of doing. He was instrumental when Brazil came from behind to beat Italy in the bronzematch.

Rivelino was one of the greatest offensive midfielders in the world in his prime and spent most of his career in Corinthians. However, despite staying there for ten seasons, Rivelino failed to win the domestic Sao Paulo championship. His fans appreciated his loyalty and nicknamed him Reizinho do Parque (Little King of the Park). He had a three year spell with Fluminense before going to El Helal in Saudi Arabia towards the end to make some extra money. He retired in 1981 and is today a respected TV commentator in Brazil.

“Rivelino was everything I wanted to be as a player,” Diego Maradona once commented. “His dribbling was flawless, his passes perfect and his shots unstoppable. And he did everything with his left foot. It didn’t matter if his right foot was only good to stand on, because there was nothing he couldn’t do with his left. To me it was beautiful.”

The highest praise. And, of course, Rivelino illustrated why on the highest stage. Having only belatedly been found a starting place in a Brazil team that was brimming with his style of creator, he arguably only follows Pele as the name most identified with the excellence of 1970. But, for all the problems he caused the opposition, Rivelino actually solved one for Mario Zagallo. With an off-form Brazil unable to find the right player for the left side of the field, the manager realised Rivelino’s natural inclination to come inside would provide a perfect counterweight to Jairzinho’s surges on the other side. With such iconic sides, of course, there is an eternal debate over whether the quality of the players makes the team or the quality of the team makes the players. There can be little doubt Rivelino falls into the former.

But the irony is perhaps that the 1970 World Cup did make his career. Previously, he had been a fantastic player who tended to fade in games. And he certainly didn’t have the energy to propel Corinthians to any major trophies during his nine-year stint there. For all of his class, the clubs’ fans eventually saw him as an “unlucky charm – a man incapable of leading the team to the titles they yearned for”.

It was only when he had left Corinthians, in acrimony, that he won the first club medals of his career: back-to-back state championships with Fluminense.

In what was perhaps a greater indication of his ability than any medal, however, it was Rivelino who would eventually inherit Pele’s fabled number-10 short.

Credited with bringing the famous ‘elastico’ dribble to the world, Rivelino was a true No.10, whose magical left foot could be as delicate as it was devastating.

 
Probably for the first time in a final of a draft, the players at the back decide it for me.

Time and again Chumpitaz has come against Ronaldo in this draft. Chumpitaz is exactly the kind of player I would have against Ronaldo. Fast, physical and in your face. If you don't have those attributes, you don't have a chance against R9 in drafts.

Add Figueroa beside him and I am sold all day long.

Varela and Burgnich are exactly in the places you would want them to be against Dinho and Rivellino.

As much as I like the three R's upfront, they run into a defence which looks to be built to beat them by default.

Disappointed with Rivera missing out and Rivellino being sacrificed positionally. I would have had him upfront leftish with Ronaldo while Dinho was in the hole. Rivellino was as good upfront with his magical feet and skills as he was deeper.

I see some more interesting match ups to comment on but my vote was decided during the reinforcements itself. Good luck either ways lads.
 
Last edited:
He really doesn't have to mate. He'll be up against Gullit with the help of Marcelo. Raees is playing a tucked in defensive right back who won't give any support in attack, hence a much easier task than having a full back winger combo.

Gullit is also a player who will cut inside so Vidic is a good match for him.

I can't see how Marcelo will be much help.. not that Marcelo is a huge liability (in general as that would be overstating it - plus I am a Marcelo fanboy) but against a powerhouse like Gullit.. Marcelo will not be anyone to fear. Furthermore yes Drogba was explosive (for a striker) but would he have been able to play as a winger like Gullit? of course not. Drogba had the ability to beat players 1 v 1, but Gullit can take on entire defences on his own - he's a) a different calibre of player b) a much more superior ball-carrying threat c) supported by a GOAT level support cast which will mean he will have much more space to work with as they can't just concentrate on taking him out of the game. Plus he can easily just switch with Rivaldo/Stoichkov and go on the opposite flank or start operating as a AM. Can Marcelo and Vidic follow him? no chance.

Assuming Marcelo/Vidic.. try to take on Gullit..

That leaves Sammer, Gentile, Zambrotta, Tardelli/Tigana to take on Stoichkov, Rivaldo, Seeler, Masopust and Junior. There is more goals across my side, and with the more fluid and varied nature of my threat, I think that will prove telling whereas your side will be that tad more easier to predict as to where the main attacking threats are coming from. Tardelli and Tigana aren't as potent a goal threat as Masopust who has twice as many career goals as either and more than both of them put together.
 
Aye, one of my initial thoughts was that Rivera was a better fit for Raees' team than Rivaldo, and also that Enigma has lost a very credible route to goal in Robben attacking Junior by selling the Dutchman.
We thought about it long and hard mate as Robben brings sheer pace, but Rivelino is a level above and also a great fit for our side, not to mention a much better playmaker. We have two runners with the ball in Ronaldinho and Ronaldo so IMO as things stands we're gaining more from him than Robben.
 
twice as many career goals as either and more than both of them put together.

If A is greater than two times B and
If A is also greater than two times C, then
A will always be greater than B + C

Sorry, the mathematician in me had to point that out :p
 
Probably for the first time in a final a draft, the players at the back decide it for me.

Time and again Chumpitaz has come against Ronaldo in this draft. Chumpitaz is exactly the kind of player I would have against Ronaldo. Fast, physical and in your face. If you don't have those attributes, you don't have a chance against R9 in drafts.

Add Figueroa beside him and I am sold all day long.

Varela and Burgnich are exactly in the places you would want them to be against Dinho and Rivellino.

As much as I like the three R's upfront, they run into a defence which looks to be built to beat them by default.

Disappointed with Rivera missing out and Rivellino being sacrificed positionally. I would have had him upfront leftish with Ronaldo while Dinho was in the hole. Rivellino was as good upfront with his magical feet and skills as he was deeper.

I see some more interesting match ups to comment on but my vote was decided during the reinforcements itself. Good luck either ways lads.

Our front three is fluid mate. We aren't sacrificing Rivelino at all. We've tried to explain it in the OP and and in terms of graphics. Chumpitaz as good as he was can't stop peak Ronaldo. Ronaldo has destroyed better defenders than him and as good as a fit he is that won't stop him.

Also Ronaldinho and Rivelino won't stick to zones and will confuse the hell out of Raees's backline.
 
If A is greater than two times B and
If A is also greater than two time C, then
A will always be greater than B + C

Sorry, the mathematician in me had to point that out :p

:lol:

just for the sake of clarity..

  • Masopust 483 Club Apps (98 goals) 63 NT apps (10 Goals)
  • Tardelli 393 Club Apps (43 goals) 81 NT Apps (6 Goals)
  • Tigana 487 Club Apps (36 goals) 52 NT Apps (1 Goals)
On a separate note (attack wise)...
  • Seeler 477 Club Apps (406 goals) 72 NT Apps (43 Goals)
  • Rivaldo 573 Club Apps (258 goals) 74 NT Apps (35 Goals)
  • Stoichkov 454 Club Apps (223 goals) 83 NT Apps (37 Goals)
  • Gullit 465 Club Apps (175 goals) 66 NT Apps (17 Goals)
  • Ronaldo 343 Club Apps (247 goals) 98 NT Apps (62 Goals)
  • Ronaldinho 441 Club Apps (167 goals) 97 NT Apps (33 Goals)
  • Rivelino 686 Club Apps (217 goals) 92 NT Apps (26 Goals)
Key Points to note...

  • He is heavily reliant on Ronaldo as a surefire goal threat.
  • 1062 goals v 631 goals - and his less dangerous attack is not even supported by superior goal threat via wing backs or his midfield as Junior has more goals than Marcelo and Masopust > Tigana and Tardelli.
  • The goalscoring ratios are in my favour too.. i.e. Rivelino has more apps than likes of Rivaldo/Stoichkov and is not as efficient as them in terms of goal threat.
 
Last edited:
I can't see how Marcelo will be much help.. not that Marcelo is a huge liability (in general as that would be overstating it - plus I am a Marcelo fanboy) but against a powerhouse like Gullit.. Marcelo will not be anyone to fear. Furthermore yes Drogba was explosive (for a striker) but would he have been able to play as a winger like Gullit? of course not. Drogba had the ability to beat players 1 v 1, but Gullit can take on entire defences on his own - he's a) a different calibre of player b) a much more superior ball-carrying threat c) supported by a GOAT level support cast which will mean he will have much more space to work with as they can't just concentrate on taking him out of the game. Plus he can easily just switch with Rivaldo/Stoichkov and go on the opposite flank or start operating as a AM. Can Marcelo and Vidic follow him? no chance.

Assuming Marcelo/Vidic.. try to take on Gullit..

That leaves Sammer, Gentile, Zambrotta, Tardelli/Tigana to take on Stoichkov, Rivaldo, Seeler, Masopust and Junior. There is more goals across my side, and with the more fluid and varied nature of my threat, I think that will prove telling whereas your side will be that tad more easier to predict as to where the main attacking threats are coming from. Tardelli and Tigana aren't as potent a goal threat as Masopust who has twice as many career goals as either and more than both of them put together.

Marcelo keeps getting flack defensively but in a back 5 he certainly is not a liability. Not to mention trouble Burgnich a lot going forward relieving space for our front three.

Flip it the other way around - Chumpitaz, Figueroa, Junior and Burgnich will have to deal with our two wing backs and Rivelino, Ronaldinho, Ronaldo. Especially on counter we have an advantage there.
 
:lol:

just for the sake of clarity..

  • Masopust 483 Club Apps (98 goals) 63 NT apps (10 Goals)
  • Tardelli 393 Club Apps (43 goals) 81 NT Apps (6 Goals)
  • Tigana 487 Club Apps (36 goals) 52 NT Apps (1 Goals)

I hate those comparisons to be honest. :lol:

Masopust played for Dukla Prague in an era where you had 5 attacking players on the pitch and 2 out and out defenders.

Tardelli played in catenaccio driven era against some of the best defenders in history.
 


here's Tardelli scoring some top goals during that era. If no one is minding him with that dynamic front trio can cause a lot of damage. As shown on the highest level as well - the WC.
 
Our front three is fluid

Ronaldo and Dinho are the fluidest of the trio while Rivellino is surely capable of being a part of such a setup as long as he is in the left and central zones. As far as I recall watching him, he didn't use his right foot often.

Positionally it looks odd to me although I understand the arrows. I think Rivellino on that side sort of plays against the fluidity and his strengths.
 
I hate those comparisons to be honest. :lol:

Masopust played for Dukla Prague in an era where you had 5 attacking players on the pitch and 2 out and out defenders.

Tardelli played in catenaccio driven era against some of the best defenders in history.

That is irrelevant, if he is able to bring the same level of attacking threat to the 1962 world cup.. and he did that against top international teams in a world cup final.



Also the stats can't be ignored. The sheer goal threat of my side is definitely greater than yours, then when you consider that if your attack was to be kept quiet.. your support cast doesn't have that much in terms of plan B of winning this game in contrast to mine, and the calibre of the defence you are facing.. the odds are going to be that my side will break down your defence more than you will break mine.
 
:lol:

On a separate note (attack wise)...
  • Seeler 477 Club Apps (406 goals) 72 NT Apps (43 Goals)
  • Rivaldo 573 Club Apps (258 goals) 74 NT Apps (35 Goals)
  • Stoichkov 454 Club Apps (223 goals) 83 NT Apps (37 Goals)
  • Gullit 465 Club Apps (175 goals) 66 NT Apps (17 Goals)
  • Ronaldo 343 Club Apps (247 goals) 98 NT Apps (62 Goals)
  • Ronaldinho 441 Club Apps (167 goals) 97 NT Apps (33 Goals)
  • Rivelino 686 Club Apps (217 goals) 92 NT Apps (26 Goals)
Key Points to note...

  • He is heavily reliant on Ronaldo as a surefire goal threat.
  • 1062 goals v 631 goals - and his less dangerous attack is not even supported by superior goal threat via wing backs or his midfield as Junior has more goals than Marcelo and Masopust > Tigana and Tardelli.
  • The goalscoring ratios are in my favour too.. i.e. Rivelino has more apps than likes of Rivaldo/Stoichkov and is not as efficient as them in terms of goal threat.

Just to address that as well.

Comparing goalscoring feats like that is pretty useless. Seeler played in an era where there wasn't even a Bundesliga established but scored most of his goals in Oberliga Nord. In the Bundesliga he went past 15 goals only on 3 occassions in 9 seasons.

Gullit scored 19 goals more than Tardelli in Seria A, just to put it in perspective. Rivaldo 80-90 goals from those statistics came when he went to Greece, Turkey and so forth.

It's really apples and oranges.
 
You'll rarely hear a bad word about Vidic from me, but this role is just not for him. He really lacks the pace to cover out wide. Though physically a match for Gullit, I see him getting dragged wide on the counter.

Thats where Tigana would help Vidic, mate.

When Marcelo overlaps, Tigana would be there to cover and support Vidic to ensure Vidic isn't alone dealing with Gullit. One of Tigana's greatest strengths was his positional sense and in France's Carré Magique set-up, he was often the man helping full-backs like Amoros, Bossis and Battiston out when they were up against top class wide attackers.

Now if it was say a Best or Garrincha, sure I agree it would have been an issue. But as great Gullit was, he wasn't a mazy dribbler like those guys who can annihilate in one-on-one situations. Gullit was a very good player but not the right kind of player to fully exploit that flank!
 
That is irrelevant, if he is able to bring the same level of attacking threat to the 1962 world cup.. and he did that against top international teams in a world cup final.



Also the stats can't be ignored. The sheer goal threat of my side is definitely greater than yours, then when you consider that if your attack was to be kept quiet.. your support cast doesn't have that much in terms of plan B of winning this game in contrast to mine, and the calibre of the defence you are facing.. the odds are going to be that my side will break down your defence more than you will break mine.



Don't see how it isn't relevant mate. Masopust has 2 goals on EURO/WC last stages - Tardelli has 2 in 1982 WC alone scoring in the final as well.
 
C'mon Raees. You can't just put the goals scored stats and come to a conclusion at face value.
 
Just to address that as well.

Comparing goalscoring feats like that is pretty useless. Seeler played in an era where there wasn't even a Bundesliga established but scored most of his goals in Oberliga Nord. In the Bundesliga he went past 15 goals only on 3 occassions in 9 seasons.

Gullit scored 19 goals more than Tardelli in Seria A, just to put it in perspective. Rivaldo 80-90 goals from those statistics came when he went to Greece, Turkey and so forth.

It's really apples and oranges.

Yes but then you can argue that Rivelino has 23 goals coming from when he played in Arabia.. or only 70 of Ronaldinho's goals come when playing at Barca. I think that is a weak way of trying to argue your way out of the statement, our attack is a superior threat from a sheer goal perspective. That is undeniable.

I would say from a playmaking perspective, you've got players in Rivelino/Ronaldinho.. that > my own. There is no point of me lying about that.. what I can do though is set my team up to try and minimise that advantage you have over me, but I can't deny it. Just like you can't really deny that my team has much more goalscoring potential.

Question is, how are you going to prove that your defence is capable and stronger than mine, relative to the threat of the attack you are facing.
 
Also the stats can't be ignored. The sheer goal threat of my side is definitely greater than yours, then when you consider that if your attack was to be kept quiet.. your support cast doesn't have that much in terms of plan B of winning this game in contrast to mine, and the calibre of the defence you are facing.. the odds are going to be that my side will break down your defence more than you will break mine
But then again, your superior goalthreat faces a defence with 1 additional defender in it.