Auction Draft: Round 1 - Physiocrat vs. 2mufc/Gio

[Himannv]

Out of interest for those voting 2mufc0/Gio what swung it? I know GodShavetheQueen voted on Muller's record Vs Schulz but that seems less than clear cut and that Hamburg were a bottom half side.

Is it Gio will score more or that he'll most shut me out?

As a unit my midfield is better than Gio's. Obviously Maradona is brilliant but I'd take Overath over Vidal (who IMO is really quite overated) and Stielike over Zito - the latter seemed perfectly competent but lacks the dynamism and passing of Stielike.

It was mainly their defense for me. It's just perfectly setup to allow Beckenbauer to step out and dominate the game.

Also, your team is good but doesn't have the star power that their team does. I mean Maradona and Muller could potentially put even better defenses than yours to the sword.

I like your midfield and wide attackers more but it wasn't enough to edge ahead of 2mufcGio.

 

[Physiocrat]

Thanks for the thoughts @Enigma_87 @Himannv

 

[Zlatan 7]

Out of interest for those voting 2mufc0/Gio what swung it? I know GodShavetheQueen voted on Muller's record Vs Schulz but that seems less than clear cut and that Hamburg were a bottom half side.

Is it Gio will score more or that he'll most shut me out?

As a unit my midfield is better than Gio's. Obviously Maradona is brilliant but I'd take Overath over Vidal (who IMO is really quite overated) and Stielike over Zito - the latter seemed perfectly competent but lacks the dynamism and passing of Stielike.

What it swung it for me was the spine running through the team with muller, Maradona and Beckenbauer, they are world class in their positions.
Your midfield German triangle looks a beast and it certainly wouldn’t be easy for Maradona in there.

Admittedly I didn’t know enough about most of your attacking line up and maybe I should have refrained from voting in this match for that reason.

 

[Physiocrat]

What it swung it for me was the spine running through the team with muller, Maradona and Beckenbauer, they are world class in their positions.
Your midfield German triangle looks a beast and it certainly wouldn’t be easy for Maradona in there.

Admittedly I didn’t know enough about most of your attacking line up and maybe I should have refrained from voting in this match for that reason.

If you are interested here's a compilation video and an all-touches video for Kopa, Riva and Finney.

Spoiler: Vids

 

[Zlatan 7]

@Physiocrat thanks, I’ll watch those through the day

 

[harms]

Quite frankly, I liked @Physiocrat's team better. But in reality (ha), Müller, Maradona and Beckenbauer (what an incredible set of perfectly complimentary GOATs) would probably decide this game more often than not.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Quite frankly, I liked @Physiocrat's team better. But in reality (ha), Müller, Maradona and Beckenbauer (what an incredible set of perfectly complimentary GOATs) would probably decide this game more often than not.

I'm not sure I'd say Maradona and Muller are complementary. I'd prefer someone like Elkjaer ahead of Maradona. Occupy defenders and open spaces type player.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

I think most times, Breitner doesn't get enough marks for his defensive presence. I am also guilty of doing that because I have not seen too much video evidence of that part of his game.

Considering he went for 110 and Matthaus for 120, I think physio missed a trick there.

I can see this going to the wire with Matthaus instead of Breitner, especially with Diego in there too..

 

[Physiocrat]

I think most times, Breitner doesn't get enough marks for his defensive presence. I am also guilty of doing that because I have not seen too much video evidence of that part of his game.

Considering he went for 110 and Matthaus for 120, I think physio missed a trick there.

I can see this going to the wire with Matthaus instead of Breitner, especially with Diego in there too..

I originally wanted Matthaus but then thought Breitner would be a lot cheaper so left Matthaus go. Then MJJ and Engima decided to keep upbidding me.

I really wanted to produce this style of team and my second choice after Breitner was Michael Ballack so really needed Breitner

 

[harms]

I'm not sure I'd say Maradona and Muller are complementary. I'd prefer someone like Elkjaer ahead of Maradona. Occupy defenders and open spaces type player.

Elkjær would be everyone's favourite partner, of course, with his selfless attitude and incredible movement, but overall Maradona-Müller is a better pair than Maradona-Elkjær — and I'm sure that Diego would've loved to have Müller at the end of his passes.

 

[Physiocrat]

Well played @Gio @2mufc0

With a couple of reinforcements I think Gio will be extending his lead of most drafts won.

 

[Ecstatic]

I have just understood the team @Physiocrat which is well engineered after all. Physio teams are generally refined. Good to see Riva who like Greaves is criminally underrated

While I do believe Kopa is better as a #10 or on the right; I can understand why Kopa plays against Djalma Santos so that he can cut inside.

On the other hand, Finney would challenge Briegel.

At first sight, not convinced by Heyncked in this role

Have to say I have voted like a sheep!

 

[Physiocrat]

I have just understood the team @Physiocrat which is well engineered after all. Physio teams are generally refined. Good to see Riva who like Greaves is criminally underrated

Is there anyway I can present it better so it is more easily understood? I think Heynckes is fine with Briegel at left back, the main question is how much defensive work would he do

 

[Ecstatic]

Is there anyway I can present it better so it is more easily understood? I think Heynckes is fine with Briegel at left back, the main question is how much defensive work would he do

Your job is great and my posts was nothing to do with your presentation.

It's just that Finney can play both sides IIRC and that it was more obvious to deploy Kopa elsewhere.

Given the opposition, maybe I would have done the same.

Even if I prefer your thinking/rationale behind your team and even if I picked/defended Stielike many times, you were unlucky to play Maradona with have a deep-lying playmaker whose attributes are not the ideal ones to keep Maradona under control. I mean it's better to have Makélélé against Maradona than Redondo.

The question being "Who will win this match?" I had voted 2mufc/Gio.

If the question was "Which story do you want to support?" I would have voted for you

I think Heynckes is fine with Briegel at left back, the main question is how much defensive work would he do

This is the question.

In the real life, no problem, you can win the Champions League with Eto'o and Cavani on the wing.

Now, in these drafts whose purpose is to nitpick on minor details, the question deserves to be asked about his defensive contribution and even his style of play.

I think most times, Breitner doesn't get enough marks for his defensive presence. I am also guilty of doing that because I have not seen too much video evidence of that part of his game.

Considering he went for 110 and Matthaus for 120, I think physio missed a trick there.

I can see this going to the wire with Matthaus instead of Breitner, especially with Diego in there too..

Contrary to most of us, he never tries to have a collection of big names. He's a romantic drafter

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

The question being "Who will win this match?" I had voted 2mufc/Gio.

If the question was "Which story do you want to support?" I would have voted for you

Very nicely put. Felt the same and was very dissapointed on seeing the Schulz stat as Ruggeri on his part was perfect for Muller and half the puzzle well fit.

 

[2mufc0]

Well played @Gio @2mufc0

With a couple of reinforcements I think Gio will be extending his lead of most drafts won.

Thanks physio you had a well thought out all round team, imo you were just missing that star attacker, otherwise i found it difficult to argue against your excellent setup.

 

[Physiocrat]

Thanks physio you had a well thought out all round team, imo you were just missing that star attacker, otherwise i found it difficult to argue against your excellent setup.

Thanks.

It's just that Finney can play both sides IIRC and that it was more obvious to deploy Kopa elsewhere.

My first choice for Kopa's position was Ronaldinho but Kopa was cheaper and I was happy he had the attributes to play both sides. There aren't too main players who can play a proper wide playmaker role that well. Today many who play wide left or right are more goalscorers than creators.

Even if I prefer your thinking/rationale behind your team and even if I picked/defended Stielike many times, you were unlucky to play Maradona with have a deep-lying playmaker whose attributes are not the ideal ones to keep Maradona under control. I mean it's better to have Makélélé against Maradona than Redondo.

I wouldn't typically describe Stielike as a DLP but I understand why you do. When I pick a DM I want him to be mobile, defensively astute and also to be able to pass. It was probably watching too many games of Carrick plus Giggs or Scholes at CM that made me want mobility. I really liked Hargreaves style of play at DM alongside Anderson - it was very rare but I remember we played well when they did.

To the Makelele question, firstly I really despise Makelele not for anything personally but that I consider him the ultimate anti-footballer who really achieved anything. I named him the crab as he'd only ever pass backwards or sideways and never forwards. But to the specific task on Maradona I still prefer Stielike mainly because I don't remember Makelele being that mobile. Against Maradona you want someone who will keep up with him and be able to follow him when he drifts wider. It's a bad example but Makelele against Riquelme makes more sense.

Contrary to most of us, he never tries to have a collection of big names. He's a romantic drafter

The major reason I don't go for big names is my major interest is in overall setup with different styles or play and formation - Ed Woodward would hate me. That said all my teams never lack width (wingers are awesome and the game is worse in their absence) and don't go full possession style mainly because I find it really dull - I suppose I'm a romantic in that I always create teams I would enjoy to watch. I should though in the future probably try and build around some of my favourite players such as Batistuta - as a child it was him and Shearer I loved the most.

 

[Synco]

Is there anyway I can present it better so it is more easily understood? I think Heynckes is fine with Briegel at left back, the main question is how much defensive work would he do

If Germany's EURO 72 is any indication for him in general: quite a bit, I'd say.

 

[Physiocrat]

If Germany's EURO 72 is any indication for him in general: quite a bit, I'd say.

I didn't push that as I didn't know too much about him TBF. I saw him in the 72 side but didn't really remember him. I was focused on Better, Kaiser, Muller and Breitner

 

[Synco]

I didn't push that as I didn't know too much about him TBF. I saw him in the 72 side but didn't really remember him. I was focused on Better, Kaiser, Muller and Breitner

It's mostly an extrapolation from my side, tbh - as I remember it, he had a pretty high workrate overall, but the majority of it happened in possession.

He still made defensive contributions repeatedly though, including some moments of serious hustle, which shows he was willing to defend in the way expected/necessary at that time. (A short demonstration - Heynckes contributing above his average there, as I remember it - would be the period from 30:00 to 35:00 in the video of the final on Footballia. Heynckes is #9, the commentator confuses him with Wimmer once.)

So my calculation is: High overall workrate & punctual defensive hustle in that early 70s setup would probably translate into reliable defensive contributions in a modern tactical setup (which seems to be assumed for these draft games). That's of course a contestable way of looking at it, but without era-adjustment, these draft games wouldn't really be possible.

 

[Physiocrat]

It's mostly an extrapolation from my side, tbh - as I remember it, he had a pretty high workrate overall, but the majority of it happened in possession.

He still made defensive contributions repeatedly though, including some moments of serious hustle, which shows he was willing to defend in the way expected/necessary at that time. (A short demonstration - Heynckes contributing above his average there, as I remember it - would be the period from 30:00 to 35:00 in the video of the final on Footballia. Heynckes is #9, the commentator confuses him with Wimmer once.)

So my calculation is: High overall workrate & punctual defensive hustle in that early 70s setup would probably translate into reliable defensive contributions in a modern tactical setup (which seems to be assumed for these draft games). That's of course a contestable way of looking at it, but without era-adjustment, these draft games wouldn't really be impossible.

Thanks. That's good stuff. Certainly sounds like he'd provide some workrate out of possession.

 

[Moby]

Elkjær would be everyone's favourite partner, of course, with his selfless attitude and incredible movement, but overall Maradona-Müller is a better pair than Maradona-Elkjær — and I'm sure that Diego would've loved to have Müller at the end of his passes.

I echo EAP here, given Maradona's style of play and the way he was the absolute master of decisive through balls I'd ideally have someone who could play off the shoulder of the last man and had devastating pace to latch on those through balls. That would be a player Diego would love playing with. The likes of Ronaldo and Romario would be incredible in front of Diego and make full use of his vision and defense splitting balls. Muller is obviously a deadly finisher but he never played with a playmaker similar to Diego, not just in terms of ability but style of play, and had a different game in terms of the service he received and how he used that to his advantage. So wouldnt say Diego and Muller is a natural fit here, while still obviously very good.

 

[harms]

I echo EAP here, given Maradona's style of play and the way he was the absolute master of decisive through balls I'd ideally have someone who could play off the shoulder of the last man and had devastating pace to latch on those through balls. That would be a player Diego would love playing with. The likes of Ronaldo and Romario would be incredible in front of Diego and make full use of his vision and defense splitting balls. Muller is obviously a deadly finisher but he never played with a playmaker similar to Diego, not just in terms of ability but style of play, and had a different game in terms of the service he received and how he used that to his advantage. So wouldnt say Diego and Muller is a natural fit here, while still obviously very good.

I can agree with that. But still, having the greatest finisher of all time up front with Maradona's endless creativity behind him is a scary prospect for any opposition.