Auction Draft QF1 - Aldo vs rpitroda

Who will win based on all the players at their peak?

  • Total voters
    21
  • Poll closed .
Aldo said:
Just to clear up some stuff.

I rate Laudrup as highly as you guys and I am not going to pretend that he would have no say in the game, but at the end of the day, he was a playmaker, in fact he was usually way too unselfish for his own good. It has already been raised how Vieri is not an ideal striker to combine with him, given Laudrup needs no time to pick a great pass, you need an equally good off the ball movement to latch on to that, which is certainly a danger but I am hoping Koeman's reading othe game would allow him to intercept his supply.

As for Lerby and Essien, firstly they are equally if not more hard working than Keane and Effenberg, so they won't just get run over like they are not there. Their job is to protect the defense, cut out supply from Laudrup, and protect the flanks only when needed. I agree with your point that they are not as good as Effenberg or Keane in attack, even though Essien has come up with some absolute screamers in his time, but regardless, there is a reason I dropped Pep while knowing those two are not the greatest going forward, because I have Koeman in defense. He is going to do the job of orchestrating from deep and I can say for certain that there are not many better than him for that job. So like I mentioned in the write up, once these two win it back, Koeman takes over and finds his target. OR Platini takes over, who will be in close attention when we don't have the ball. This is without taking into account that both Irwin and Bossis are quality ball players, which is above the level or a normal defender. Combined within these players should be able to compensate for the lack of attacking prowess from Lerby and Essien, as harsh as it is for them to be called that. I mean, they might not be the best but they are not Makelele or Mauro Silva. Lerby in particular was praised of carrying the ball forward effectively, but anyway, hopefully the players better suited for that will do that job.

I also don't understand the lack of width in my team. How much more width can I provide? Do people consider Cristiano at Madrid a "central" player? Isn't he praised so much for providing allthose goals while not playing central and starting in wide areas, specially in counters? To add to that he is backed up by Denis Irwin, and Di maria is stretching play on the other side. I honestly don't believe that my attack has "all players who like to come centrally". Even in the scenario which trippy is portraying where Cristiano is stretching play, it doesn't destroy my goal threat with Platini bombing into the box in the middle. Platini's solo runs should also not be neglected, here. I wouldn't have paid 6 TP points and a truckload of cash if I just wanted a run of the mill number 10, it's a player who can hurt you in three VERY effective ways, that is creating, scoring and set pieces.

The last point has been addressed already, Koeman isn't going on any runs. I started my write up saying it is a defense that revolves around him, stays compact and organized under his leadership and allows him to run the game from deep. In a case where he needs any help, he has Bosses, a quality defender in my book, to act as a third CB.

Lastly with both teams playing a direct game, it would be an open end to end affair that suits me. I pack a bigger punch going forward with a top quality passer to not waste absolutely any time in transition, while he lacks any comparable ball playing ability in defense and I can definitely see my team's transition being quicker and more fluid.
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Well argued, sir.

I think "width" is something people attach far too much importance to, actually. What sort of "width" you need depends on how you play, to put it very simple. If you go with two attacking fullbacks and two line hugging wingers you'll be murdered for setting up too rigidly - and yet any sign of a "lack of width" is immediately pointed out as though it were an alpha and omega factor in any kind of match. What you need is variety - not "width" in and of itself.

End of rant.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
For my money, trip, what you need to do here is convince the voters that your wide men - Pires and Little Laudrup - will help Big Laudrup set up chances for Vieri. Those two haven't really entered the fray here - and in a sense they're the most important factor in your set-up: Michael Laudrup's quality is unquestionable - what he brings to the table is almost self-evident. But my feeling is that you rely too much on him to be the creator - same problem you had in our friendly, as I see it.

I think people probably underrate Vieri here - 'cause to my thinking he should have an edge over those CBs with his strength and nose for goals. But he needs service - and Pires and the other Laudrup need to step up to the plate in that regard.
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Well I've tried to highlight as best I can but if people glance and vote with no feedback (note, none have provided any feedback to both teams), what can I do?

That's precisely why Effenberg was drafted. He can unlock passes with Laudrup.

The key thing is they are not necessarily directly unlocking Vieri. That's still a possibility. But they can unlock the wingers who in turn unlock Vieri.

I have two wingers who can run inside and out, and a midfielder and a creator who can pass to them. And pires scores goals, and LaudrupB is a fabulous assister. They can both pick out Vieri while running at wing backs as much as laudrup and effemberg can from the middle.
 
...and just to make it clear - the width rant was not directed at trippy's particular point. It was a general little rant - nothing more.
 
rpitroda said:
Well I've tried to highlight as best I can but if people glance and vote with no feedback (note, none have provided any feedback to both teams), what can I do?

That's precisely why Effenberg was drafted. He can unlock passes with Laudrup.

The key thing is they are not necessarily directly unlocking Vieri. That's still a possibility. But they can unlock the wingers who in turn unlock Vieri.

I have two wingers who can run inside and out, and a midfielder and a creator who can pass to them. And pires scores goals, and LaudrupB is a fabulous assister. They can both pick out Vieri while running at wing backs as much as laudrup and effemberg can from the middle.
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Aye - Pires always had decent numbers for a winger (or whatever you want to call him). He can definitely score when given the chance.
 
Aldo said:
TBH mate I don't see how my defense is "much weaker". I have Irwin, possibly the greates fullback our club has had, a man who guarantees a minimum of 7/10 performance in every game and was a key player in our treble win. As good as Evra was at his peak, I would never choose him ahead of Denis and this opinion is backed up the majority in here when we see the United all time XI being made. Kohler is possibly the best "pure defender" on the pitch, and he is a legend of the game and one of the greatest stoppers ever, but Koeman won 4 La Liga's in a row while one European Cup and reaching the final of another, this after already winning one, with scoring the winner in his earlier career. It's a bit disrespectful to him to be portrayed like a liability, when he coped with quality attacks frequently in his career. I won't say there's much between Montero and Costacurta. And coming to Bossis, he is usually rated as one of the best defenders to come out of his country, a country that isn't short of having quality defenders. Much like Irwin, he was someone who can be relied upon in most situations. He's a complete legend of French football, both for NT and domestic arena, and I can't really see what Neviller has over him. Bossis was also a key component of the brilliant French team that won the Euro and reached two WC semis in a row.
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Your argument about Irwin can be equally applied to Neville. And Evra in my opinion is more dynamic in his role as a Full back. Irwin the better defender but Evra the better attacker. At his peak he was no slouch as a defender. Also the placing he has in fans hearts regarding best left back is also due to what he achieved. He was part of the team that one a treble. He's therefore got a special space in all our hearts. But ask people elsewhere and they would say Evra is overall better. His current dip in quality certainly has had an impact on that though.

Re Koeman and Montero, you're doing a big injustice to kohler and costacurta if you say they are equal. Koeman brings qualities that allow him to excel In a Team like Barcelona and their style of play. He is a very good defender but not because he was a brilliant pure defender as you call it but all the other things he offers. Defensively though he isn't in the same league as Kohler no matter what he has own and that's what this specific point is about, his defending. Not his contribution in creating.
 
rpitroda said:
Good post but there are a few factors I contest:

1) Width. To clarify, I was not saying your team lacks wide options. I was referring to the runs your players would make to get into the defence and into goal scoring opportunities. Ronaldo loves to cut inside and depending on the flank so does Di Maria. That's where they are most dangerous. That's not saying you lack width but rather your best players run at the heart of the defence and I have central defenders and a pitbull in midfield who can not control, but have a significant impact in managing that.

2) Lerby and Essien. I highly contest your point. Purely on a work rate basis then maybe you can make a claim but to say they are on a par as a pairing is false. Keane and Effenberg offer so much more as a pair.

3) Transition. I don't understand this point. Laudrup doesn't have to unleash directly into Vieri. I have wingers who are extremely fast and skillful. Laudrup could unlock them who in turn can unlock Vieri. And I think it's unfair to estimate that because pires and laudrup can run in and outside the wing backs and M Laudruo has the quality to pick them out. Then I have Vieri to convert. b Laudrup was too unselfish I agree but with the likes of Pires coming in and Vieri in the middle, his desire to assist can certainly be met.
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They won't be running centrally together at the same time, though? That's where the whole fluidity comes in, as all 4 are comfortable performing different roles as necessary. Platini is the axis around which it is all revolving, and apart from that, they will constantly interchange. One big factor of you traying to stop them at 18 yard box is fouls. Keane and Effenberg both love a strong tackle and with the tendency of Cristiano and Di Maria going down, along with the close control of Platini, the acceleration of Cristiano and Di Maria and the physical bulldozing of Weah, there will be times, specially with the way you are set up that your Dms and defenders would need to commit a foul to stop a player clean through on goal. That is a clear cut opening for me. I have two, not one but two of the top quality free kick takers the game has seen. The fact that I am even taking Koeman's name in set pieces next to Platini shows how great he himself was. Between them, the freekicks won't go waste. I consider that as a real factor which can decide the game. Cristiano's disruption, off the ball movement and pacy runs have opened many packed defenses because the defenders cannot let him have a clean run on goal, even from distance he can easily take long shots which can be dangerous and him drawing out defenders towards him creates a lot of space.

I never disagreed that Keane and Effenberg offer more, but at the same time their job is bigger, both defensively and offensively.

The transition point is simple. Defense is where you win the ball back, you don't have Laudrup there to play it out, you need a defender to do that and your defenders aren't really renowned for their skill on the ball. So that is where you will have to take time and a few passes before you come near my defense while I can unless my attacking players from deep, reducing the time considerably. It is Koeman, it won't be hoofball here, but properly orchestrated counters which don't waste a single second.
 
rpitroda said:
Your argument about Irwin can be equally applied to Neville. And Evra in my opinion is more dynamic in his role as a Full back. Irwin the better defender but Evra the better attacker. At his peak he was no slouch as a defender. Also the placing he has in fans hearts regarding best left back is also due to what he achieved. He was part of the team that one a treble. He's therefore got a special space in all our hearts. But ask people elsewhere and they would say Evra is overall better. His current dip in quality certainly has had an impact on that though.

Re Koeman and Montero, you're doing a big injustice to kohler and costacurta if you say they are equal. Koeman brings qualities that allow him to excel In a Team like Barcelona and their style of play. He is a very good defender but not because he was a brilliant pure defender as you call it but all the other things he offers. Defensively though he isn't in the same league as Kohler no matter what he has own and that's what this specific point is about, his defending. Not his contribution in creating.
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Well I'd just respectfully disagree with the Evra and Irwin discussion because for me it is pretty clear that Irwin provides more to the team, is more balanced, much better decision maker, intelligent, quality ball player. He was taking set pieces for us, how many times do fullbacks do that? He was called the metronome for a reason. Also, importantly, Irwin did his role much more consistently. His "peak" lasted almost a decade and he rarely ever had a bad game. That is including league and CL. His attacking instinct is all there to see. If you remember, he hit the post twice in the semi final against Juve in 99, that was him bombing forward out of absolutely nowhere and got a bullet of a shot away, in a tight game where we desperately needed that goal to go to the final. In a big game, I trust Irwin much more than Evra in both phases.

For Kohler, there is no argument from my side that he is the best "pure defender" on the pitch. I didn't say Koeman was as good as a defender as he was but I have constructed my defense to balance and compliment Koeman, and the presence of Bossis in particular would be a major asset.
 
Initial thoughts, before reading the thread.

Team Aldo: What I love the most about the side is that Koeman and Ronaldo are as perfect as Stoichkov was of a target for Koeman. The same way I think Koeman functioning with Guardiola and Laudrup shows that Koeman can be at his playmaking peak with other playmakers still being in theirs.

For my money I would have had Guardiola for that reason, him and Koeman have shown how perfect they can offer differing playmaking routes while still having Laudrup shining bright in front.

It is hard to imagine a way to shut out not just Platini, not just him and Guardiola, but him Guardiola and Koeman who can all thrive in the same set up. Cristiano is absolutely brilliant for the role as well.

But then again I see all the reasoning behind this team as well, hard to criticize it because I personally would have done something slightly different.

Team Rpitroda: I think Aldo has better strongest areas, whereas Rpitroda may be losing here because he has a very high level in every area of his team. Hard to find any weaknesses here, but at the same time it is hard to see him penetrate Aldo on the regular anywhere.

I think Rpitroda has the better defense, the better midfield, but still I can see logic in why people are voting against him as maybe overall Aldo would still score more goals.

Both are brilliant sides, I haven't read any posts in the thread yet, so I will do that - have no clue how it has gone and what people have said.
 
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With both teams going for a counterattacking setup, this could be a cagey affair. If there was a draw option, I'd pick that, or I may not vote in this. However, I feel like picking a winner here.

For me, the winner will come from the team that has the greatest chance of scoring a goal from a few opportunities.

Both teams are similar in their setup. Both have defensive midfielders who are combative, good at reading the game, and technically apt. Both have an attacking playmaker and 3 players who roam around with 1 being more of a winger than the others.

To me, it comes down to which team has more individual quality on the attack as those players will always have a moment of magic that can break the best of defences.

Sorry trippy, but Aldo gets my vote on this one. C. Ronaldo and Platini are two amazing players. Weah is a handful, himself. di Maria's such a great workhorse that trippy's defenders will have trouble keeping up with him. I think Aldo's team has a greater chance of scoring goals than trippy's.

This is not an easy decision, but I think Aldo gets a tight victory in this match.

P.S.: trippy, you have two great wingers in your team, both of whom can do the damage in the middle and out wide. You also have an amazing big striker in Vieri who's deadly and a perfect foil for Pires. You have Effenberg who can make M. Laudrup's job easier in creating chances. B. Laudrup himself is also capable of many moments of magic as demonstrated throughout his career. Keane and Effenberg are combative players who are solid in midfield. You have two excellent pure defenders in Kohler and Costacurta, with Kohler being up there with the best of the best. Neville and Evra have been world class full backs in their time who have made life difficult for opposing wingers and attacking players.

However, Aldo just has the better team. Sorry, trippy, but you always get matched against really good opponents that seem to make it tough for you to win. Even in the last matchup, I gave you the win out of extreme difficulty because Chester's team had an absolutely top class attack.
 
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rpitroda said:
If I'm not mistaken Koeman loved taking free kicks and penalties and his mentality with the ball was to contribute to the attacking phase. Going forward is a vague term and not once did I say loves running forward like a madman. So please, get off your high horse?
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Koeman taking free kicks and penalties doesn't make him a liability to be exploited the way you portrayed it.. His contribution to the attacking phase was from deep, he wasn't "the kind of player where this could happen" as in getting caught out that way. You have many valid points to make here, but that isn't one.

rpitroda said:
@antohan it's funny how when you come into a match thread you have your favourites and there is no balance in what you say. Quick to jump at a comment which you can leach off to support your overall agenda in what's happening. Frankly it takes the fun out of a game for me, and is very off putting to want to continue with these drafts for me.
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Sorry if you don't like me calling you out on making up stuff about Koeman, but that's your problem. So far all I said is your midfield has improved with Effenberg, and that Vieri could have some joy in this game particularly re: Casillas.

I don't get what this supposed agenda of mine is here, you probably have more players I have picked in the past than Aldo does, let alone personal favourites. In fact, you do. What I won't have is them receiving unfair criticism, be it one of yours or his.
 
Aldo's pick of Di Maria has been clever. He is probably getting more credit here than trippy's wingers which is absurd IMO. It's like Suarez in noPace's team. I know he was possibly Real's best player in their CL winning season but he had one outstanding season with Real along with couple of good ones before that. Some one like Pires had 4 great seasons with Arsenal.

I still have not been able to decide here.

I agree with Anto that Vieri looks primed to score here, be it from a set piece or a cross. Clearest goal for trippy's team. Aldo also lacks the player to shackle Laudrup especially with either of Keane or Effenberg joining in. On the flip side, Aldo's strategy of more or less giving C.Ron the free role is useful and with Platini providing, it is hard to see him not scoring.
 
crappycraperson said:
Aldo's pick of Di Maria has been clever. He is probably getting more credit here than trippy's wingers which is absurd IMO. It's like Suarez in noPace's team. I know he was possibly Real's best player in their CL winning season but he had one outstanding season with Real along with couple of good ones before that. Some one like Pires had 4 great seasons with Arsenal.

I still have not been able to decide here.

I agree with Anto that Vieri looks primed to score here, be it from a set piece or a cross. Clearest goal for trippy's team. Aldo also lacks the player to shackle Laudrup especially with either of Keane or Effenberg joining in. On the flip side, Aldo's strategy of more or less giving C.Ron the free role is useful and with Platini providing, it is hard to see him not scoring.
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Regarding Di Maria, it's surprised me too. Aldo has created a great tactical overview but I just feel Di Maria is a real weak link there which somehow has gone amiss.
 
This game is great for the draft however it ends. Trippy clearly has the players that the scan-voters would appreciate more but Aldo is winning for now.

I think that is great news, it shows that Aldo got people to read his OP, with help from the great .gif I believe. Possibly we need to put more time in to our OP's to make them entertaining as well as about the tactics to get people to read? Rather than complain when they don't.
 
I think Di Maria has been used very cleverly by Aldo - simply put. He joins that little dance-around so brilliantly illustrated by the .gif (that .gif will set a dangerous precedent, I tells ya!) - and his recent performances for Madrid in a central role makes the latter all the more plausible.

He gets plenty of flavour-of-the-month points - and this is dubious when someone like Pires is seemingly positively underrated - but that's the nature of the game. We can hold it against Di Maria if we insist - but we surely can't hold it against the manager who had the sense to pick him.
 
Annahnomoss said:
This game is great for the draft however it ends. Trippy clearly has the players that the scan-voters would appreciate more but Aldo is winning for now.

I think that is great news, it shows that Aldo got people to read his OP, with help from the great .gif I believe. Possibly we need to put more time in to our OP's to make them entertaining as well as about the tactics to get people to read? Rather than complain when they don't.
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Nah. Most people have clearly gone- Platini with C.Ron up front = game won. Not taking away Aldo's tactics or set up but he has gotten majority of the scan votes
 
I did say during the first round of drafting I was surprised no one had picked Di Maria riding the wave of the CL final. He has had a great season, and it's hard to argue against that movement between him and Platini relative to Cristiano. Not that clear about how Weah will go about things but I can't see it being a problem, at worst he will add little.

I've never quite rated Cristiano in these drafts, always saw him as an easy scan-vote winner chucked on either wing, but I like this notion of him doing a Boniek of sorts with his movement and probing across the frontline. He has more goals in him than Zibi, obviously, but Platini-to-Cristiano will not be met by an equally generous/selfless Cristiano-Platini, as was the case with the original duo. That's one other reason I like the Di Maria inclusion, Platini will still get opportunities for himself even if Cristiano goes into selfish overdrive.

I always complain about throwaway statements on forwards interchanging, as if it were some magical way to gain an advantage, when it may well confuse your own (remember I don't assume years playing together). This is one side where I buy it, absolutely. But yeah, I imagine we will start seeing loads of gifs bandied about, even if they don't realistically add much to the game at hand.

Trippy's defence is much stronger now though, and his midfield is superior and much more balanced now. Effenberg brings an entirely different dimension to that pair which was missing with the Vieira-Keane overkill. Vieri still isn't the best foil for Michael but is facing a defence and goalie that looks vulnerable to his strengths. I agree with Chester that little mention has been made of Pires-Brian vs. Bossis-Irwin, which are crucial battles here.

It goes down to who will score the most. Aldo's attack is more appealing and potent IMO, but trippy's defensive setup is better suited to deal with it. Furthermore, if trippy scores first it is far more damaging to Aldo's chances than the other way around.

Both sides look a handful on the break, but in order to have such openings you need to lure the opponent and soak some pressure. Under sustained pressure, I could see Vieri prevailing over Aldo's core three more often. There's also the fact I can see Kohler and Costacurta pushing up a fair bit (not insanely high, but enough to not leave a huge gap between the lines) while Montero and Koeman can't afford any space behind them as Vieri would have them beat fair and square. I think that's the most clearcut issue it could boil down to, how the defensive lines can set up and what they can/can't do as the dynamics of the game change.
 
@antohan very fair summary, thanks.

As for the role of Weah, I tried to demonstrate his job by likening him to Benzema, not saying they are extremely similar players but in terms of their roles, I can see some similarities. Essentially his role is to support the rest of the attack. It is said that the reason he didn't have crazy goal stats for a forward who had won a Ballon D'or was because he liked dropping deep or out wide and gave some really nice assists, and always being important in linking up play.

Over here, his job is threefold. I don't think there's anything to be explained when the team is on a quick counter. His second job is to provide the physical presence and hold up play when there is a more patient build up. He would be occupying the CBs and there are a few players all over the pitch who can use him as a target with the other attacking players lurking around for any loose balls. You may have Koeman finding him with a direct long ball from deep or either of the fullbacks with a cross from deep or Di maria who IMO would win a fair share of his battles, particularly against Evra putting in a cross. This is not something I wish to implement throughout the game or anything but in a tight game such as this, plan B can be very important. Third, he would vacate the space when Platini wants to get into the box by dropping deep or out wide, basically coordinating with Di Maria's movement. You can have him playing a 1-2 or dragging his marker that would create space.

I agree to your analysis, just one thing which I believe you have overlooked, is my threat from set pieces. Do you not think it can be a major factor here, all things considered? Cristiano and Di maria are going to go down a few amount of times in dangerous areas, that's really a given. And we see that for Madrid very often. The problem is Ronaldo who is the FK taker is really inconsistent and I don't really rate him highly on the dead ball. Instead, I have two premier quality dead ball specialists, I'm literally spoilt for choices. And that also frees up Cristiano from that duty and allows him to provide his presence in the box from FKs. Since he is also set up to soak up pressure, this would be even more frequent and can lead to a goal, IMO.
 
Good summary by anto there, I think.

It ain't much between them - that's my conclusion. I went for trip, since I think this is closer than the votes have suggested thus far. Very interesting match, though, for several reasons - and well done to both managers!
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Good summary by anto there, I think.

It ain't much between them - that's my conclusion. I went for trip, since I think this is closer than the votes have suggested thus far. Very interesting match, though, for several reasons - and well done to both managers!
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Same
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Good summary by anto there, I think.

It ain't much between them - that's my conclusion. I went for trip, since I think this is closer than the votes have suggested thus far. Very interesting match, though, for several reasons - and well done to both managers!
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These votes to push the game towards a draw will come back to haunt me in the end, pretty sure. :(

Personally I think if someone thinks it is a draw he should not vote, that's what I do when I think it's too close to call. But everyone has their own approach so fair game.
 
@Aldo, I agree about Weah, I always find it odd when he is leading the line solo and expected to bring the goals, his value was in building up and not pure goalscoring (which he could do but wasn't as prolific as some make him out to be). My point was I'm not sure he is doing anything the others aren't doing already. As I said, not crucial, but at worst he won't add much and most likely will just be adding one more source of concern for that defence to keep an eye on, as you say.

Re: free kicks. Yups, Platini and Koeman is as good a pair of takers as you could hope for and Cristiano and Weah are as good as it gets to aim for if not going direct for goal. Trippy doesn't have anyone in Montero's bracket (not that he was dumb and careless but the philosophy was the classic Uruguayan "if ball goes through player doesn't"). Bobby and Kohler were very composed and unlikely to make that a regular feature, but I can see Evra, less so Gaz, conceding a few desperate ones against di Maria/Cristiano. There's probably a goal there, indeed.
 
Aldo said:
These votes to push the game towards a draw will come back to haunt me in the end, pretty sure. :(
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I understand that, man. But still, I do try to be as objective as I can be - and I've no reason not to be in this case. So all things considered - including, yes, the score as it stands, but by no means exclusively due to this - I vote for the team I think deserves it the most. If I had thought there was NOTHING between the two of you, I would've done precisely what you propose - I would've opted not to vote, which I've done on several occasions before.

This match is as close as it gets for me. I think you've won the debate, for what it's worth - but I also think that trip's team edges it, by half an inch.

I agree with your general point - people shouldn't vote for whoever looks like the underdog just to force a draw. Like I said, if there is nothing to separate the teams, the fairest approach is to abstain from voting.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
I understand that, man. But still, I do try to be as objective as I can be - and I've no reason not to be in this case. So all things considered - including, yes, the score as it stands, but by no means exclusively due to this - I vote for the team I think deserves it the most. If I had thought there was NOTHING between the two of you, I would've done precisely what you propose - I would've opted not to vote, which I've done on several occasions before.

This match is as close as it gets for me. I think you've won the debate, for what it's worth - but I also think that trip's team edges it, by half an inch.

I agree with your general point - people shouldn't vote for whoever looks like the underdog just to force a draw. Like I said, if there is nothing to separate the teams, the fairest approach is to abstain from voting.
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and risk being called a coward by @crappycraperson ;).

I abstain by the way, enjoyed reading the thread and like both teams a lot, but can't decide. I can't find that half an inch to make a decision.
 
On a very different note - Sammer's Hammer is now The Red Viper.

What's the deal? one could ask. Why not The Red Hammer? Or - which is what I would've gone for myself - Summer of Sammer?

Or, even better - Son of Sammer. Now that's a username.
 
Balu said:
and risk being called a coward by @crappycraperson ;).

I abstain by the way, enjoyed reading the thread and like both teams a lot, but can't decide. I can't find that half an inch to make a decision.
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There you go. You're a fair and wise man, Balu - that's what I always say.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
On a very different note - Sammer's Hammer is now The Red Viper.

What's the deal? one could ask. Why not The Red Hammer? Or - which is what I would've gone for myself - Summer of Sammer?

Or, even better - Son of Sammer. Now that's a username.
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The Red Viper is a nickname of a character from the TV show Game of Thrones, I presume he's a fan of that character.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
I understand that, man. But still, I do try to be as objective as I can be - and I've no reason not to be in this case. So all things considered - including, yes, the score as it stands, but by no means exclusively due to this - I vote for the team I think deserves it the most. If I had thought there was NOTHING between the two of you, I would've done precisely what you propose - I would've opted not to vote, which I've done on several occasions before.

This match is as close as it gets for me. I think you've won the debate, for what it's worth - but I also think that trip's team edges it, by half an inch.

I agree with your general point - people shouldn't vote for whoever looks like the underdog just to force a draw. Like I said, if there is nothing to separate the teams, the fairest approach is to abstain from voting.
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Fair enough, I was in the impression that you thought there was nothing between the two teams but if you think trippy's team has an edge then completely fair to vote for him. Coming back to the earlier point I've seen a few times people who can't see any clear advantage, and not even an edge, but go on to vote for the one who is trailing to balance the votes which I personally find unfair to the other manager. He's being punished for taking a handy lead, which, if you are looking at the difference in votes as a representation of the scoreline, should only strengthen that manager's case as in a competition like this, most times we see that once a team takes a lead of one or two goal chances our the game will go in their favour, they will at least hold on to it if not increasing it due to the other team having to attack more. But anyway, it is a very subjective thing and everyone has their reasons.
 
Aldo said:
Fair enough, I was in the impression that you thought there was nothing between the two teams but if you think trippy's team has an edge then completely fair to vote for him. Coming back to the earlier point I've seen a few times people who can't see any clear advantage, and not even an edge, but go on to vote for the one who is trailing to balance the votes which I personally find unfair to the other manager. He's being punished for taking a handy lead, which, if you are looking at the difference in votes as a representation of the scoreline, should only strengthen that manager's case as in a competition like this, most times we see that once a team takes a lead of one or two goal chances our the game will go in their favour, they will at least hold on to it if not increasing it due to the other team having to attack more. But anyway, it is a very subjective thing and everyone has their reasons.
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There is some truth in this and at times it does hurt the person who is leading. Balu for example certainly lost against MJJ partly due to this reason.
 
Balu said:
and risk being called a coward by @crappycraperson ;).

I abstain by the way, enjoyed reading the thread and like both teams a lot, but can't decide. I can't find that half an inch to make a decision.
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I'm abstaining too as I will either have an agenda or will bemade out to be trying to prove I don't. Can't win.
 
Congrats and kudos to Aldo and trippy - it was a good match and an interesting discussion.
 
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