Auction Draft Final : 2Mufc/Gio vs. GSTQ

[Gio]

In both their prime, Giggs and Ferrara met 5 times in the late 90's and Ferrara/Juve maintained 3 clean sheets. (Juve won 3 - all clean sheet games, drew 1, United won 1)

Giggs doesn't call him his toughest opponent just like that

Juventus were a better team in that mid-1990s period until United finally overcame them in 1998/99. What was a constant throughout though was Giggs shifting into top gear in the big Champions League games. Although some of his team-mates were still developing, he was very often United's best and most electric player against the top opposition until it all came together so neatly in the treble-winning season.

Obviously if those three goals are what Giggs does to his toughest opponent, I shudder to think of what he might do up against anyone else Probably worth pointing out that Giggs has also called Rob Jones his toughest ever opponent, and Javier Zanetti too. Quite a list really.

 

[Gio]

It would be fair to say the biggest mismatch on the park is Diego Maradona against GSTQ's central midfield duo. With all due respect to Bonhof and Silva, neither are of the calibre I'd want to see in an all-time draft final to curtail the greatest of all. In fact it's arguably GSTQ's weakest area of the park, up against our strongest - especially when you factor in the persuasive class of Falcao hammering home that advantage. With natural play-stretchers and selfless runners out wide, Maradona should be right at home here - sparking off Falcao inside him, and then finding the ultimate penalty box reference point and greatest goalscorer of all time in Muller.



This is probably the one draft match we’ve played in this competition where Diego looks fully poised to deliver a match-winning performance.

 

[willhse456]

Who will be looking after Maradona, GSTQ? I know a bit about Silva from a recent game in which he was described almost as a strong version of Busquets. Don't know a huge amount about Bonhof though.

 

[Synco]

Based on what I know about the players - checked a bit on Maradona & Lato after the semis -, and GSTQ's statements in round 1, I expect 2mufc/Gio's team to defend with 11 men and GSTQ to mainly defend with 8. (I can elaborate on that later.)

As both teams obviously have the offensive potential to seriously hurt the opposition & a strong defensive core, that simple difference in compactness would probably decide my vote. But I'll wait until tomorrow morning to see if this assessment gets challenged. My knowledge about some of the players is fairly limited, and I might have missed something in the discussion.

---------

Two arguments that haven't swayed me so far:

1. Gio making out Mauro Silva and Bonhof as weak spots defensively:

I'm new to these draft discussions, but my impression is that individual quality is sometimes rated too highly in defense. (Offense is a different matter.) Football has seen many mediocre teams nullify great individuals, and to me collective issues matter most in that department. Especially since we're still talking about greats of the game here, even if they're not A-list calibre.

So GSTQ's plan of crowding central areas around Maradona and tightly marking him with Silva sounds very reasonable to me, perhaps reminiscent of Germany in the 1986 final (obvious connection to GSTQ's OP there). My caveat wouldn't be the the quality of GTSQ's - in my book: very fine - CMs, but, as I said above, three players apparently not contributing much (or anything?) to the required compactness against the ball.

2. GSTQ's on Beckenbauer during posts #6-#11:

I can very well see Beckenbauer being careful here when it comes to forward runs. But I also don't think it would stifle 2mufc/Gio's buildup a lot. First of all, there seems to be no pressing against Beckenbauer, which I see as a big problem. It gives him free reign to orchestrate the buildup from deep.

Then, to my knowledge, Maradona was very flexible in adapting to structural needs. So I imagine Beckenbauer acting as the DLP from the back (and he was obviously outstanding at that), with either Falcao or Maradona picking up the ball deep, while Müller falls back into midfield to provide an additional short passing outlet. That should allow for an excellent buildup through the center, even with a restrained Beckenbauer.


Just my reasoning, open to criticism on all points of course.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Who will be looking after Maradona, GSTQ? I know a bit about Silva from a recent game in which he was described almost as a strong version of Busquets. Don't know a huge amount about Bonhof though.

We are using Zonal marking mate. So no single player marks Maradona specifically at all times. Below is from the OP

Defending style : Zonal. Congest the central areas

Similar to Mourinho's Inter Milan defending against Messi

I don't like my teams to play man to man. We play zones. Messi was in Motta duels, Cambiasso duels, defender duels. It was team work.

Also, the plan is to stifle off the ball in the midfield. The lesser time he stays on it the better. The tried and tested method has been to crowd the midfield in such games.. This is the congesting the midfield I speak about in OP.

And then the Carlos and Leandro roles

Special roles : Carlos and Leandro

1. Act as the secondary play makers of the team with lots of freedom.
2. Help in congesting the central areas by crowding the midfield when required (One of the best tactics against Maradona IMO).

As you can see, there a lot of planning that has been made to reduce Maradona's impact on the game.

And if you have read the discussion on page 1 about reducing Kaiser's impact on the game, you'd see a lot of planning went into reducing the influence of the opposition's 2 best players on the pitch.

This is an area that gets underrated in draft games. The same can in fact be said about my midfield as well. I could have gotten Tigana/Davids as my wingbacks were fine, but the tactical planning has been explained for the current setup and why I felt the midfield was perfect.

How much planning or discussion have you seen around reducing the impact of Zico/Ronaldo/Romario from the opposition? Or from negating my tactics to reduce Kaiser's influence on the game in page 1?

Dont trust either me or Gio, read the 1st page again, you'll know

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Who will be looking after Maradona, GSTQ? I know a bit about Silva from a recent game in which he was described almost as a strong version of Busquets. Don't know a huge amount about Bonhof though.

Okay, this needed a separate post. Mate, if you are in a discussion with anyone outside of the Caf draft circles, never call Mauro Silva a strong version of Busquets. That is as wrong a description of him as it gets.

Team Dogma were trying to sell him into a possession side which is alright, he was good on the ball and a pretty good holder, but he was nothing like Busquets.

He was called the Brazilian Roy Keane for his stamina and strength and was an absolute bull.

When I usually dont know much about some all time players, first place I usually refer is to PES stats database. Usually some good discussion and description around the players.
Below is Mauro's page. (You can find any player's by just googling their name and PES stats - "Mauro Silva PES stats")

https://pesstatsdatabase.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8349

Coming to Bonhof, as I have mentioned in the past as well, this is the 1974 WC final setup below.

We all know Overath was the more offensive player. So Bonhof was the defensive B2B.

And who was he against? The Total Voetbal midfiueld juggernaut of Neeskens, Van Hanegem, Cruyff etc.

The best part is not that he held his own against that lot, the best part is he was the one that actually assited Gerd Muller winning goal in the 74 WC final.

Now that is what you call a proper B2B player. Rainer fecking Bonhof

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Based on what I know about the players - checked a bit on Maradona & Lato after the semis -, and GSTQ's statements in round 1, I expect 2mufc/Gio's team to defend with 11 men and GSTQ to mainly defend with 8. (I can elaborate on that later.)

Ah, that is an incorrect assumption to make Synco. You have to remember why I didn't want Zico/Ronaldo/Mbappe to drop too deep in that game.

There was no proper DM in that possession oriented team and Ocwirk was expected to play that role. The opposition had a weak CB pair and ultra offensive wingbacks who could be taken apart on the counters.

I wanted my top 3 to be ready for the kill when the chances came in that game as the tactic was perfect for that game. I wont use those statements here obviously.

As I have reiterated, I expect Zico to get involved in the midfield and Ronaldo/Romario to contribute again in Jose's Inter style by running towards the wings and stretch the opposition defense to leave it unorganized. Sort of an offensive defense (I dont call them Etoo here, but they were perfect at dropping deep/running outwide, waiting not just centrally from the counters etc). They will have a great contribution to make in all phases of the game. A game like this demands that and gets that oyut of the best players

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

2. GSTQ's on Beckenbauer during posts #6-#11:

I can very well see Beckenbauer being careful here when it comes to forward runs. But I also don't think it would stifle 2mufc/Gio's buildup a lot. First of all, there seems to be no pressing against Beckenbauer, which I see as a big problem. It gives him free reign to orchestrate the buildup from deep.

Mate, tell me who is going to linkup play to Lato?

Not Djalma, not Zito. Kaiser's role becomes so important there.

I have reiterated so many times, having your defensive fullback and DM on the same side of the pitch is always a bad idea. Leaves so much responsibility on the CB to distribute and link to the winger on that side.

And Ronaldo and Romario both were very agile and physical players even off the ball. Its unfair to say there is no pressing against Kaiser with those two of all people lurking around.

Sure I havent mentioned it in the OP, but you cant mention everything now, can you?

What do you think of Djalma moving in to cover for Kaiser as the OP says? With Carlos running down the left wing with pace to burn on counters?

Surely you can see some sense in my arguments of reducing the Kaiser influence on the game with a super attacking GOAT front 3 who will ruthlessly punish any mistakes and gaps left behind and with Carlos making sure the RB doesn't go tucking in to cover for the libero or get punished down the flank?

In games like these, I think these minor details with respect to reducing the best opposition player's impact is what wins you games. If you have fully read the thread, you'd see most of my planning against the opposition is to reduce Maradona and Kaiser's influence as much as possible. That is a lot of attention to minor details that has been put into to handling those two.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

It would be fair to say the biggest mismatch on the park is Diego Maradona against GSTQ's central midfield duo. With all due respect to Bonhof and Silva, neither are of the calibre I'd want to see in an all-time draft final to curtail the greatest of all.

Would you call Cruyff/Neeskens/Van Hanegem setup of Total Voetbal one of the greatest setups of all times if not the greatest? If Bonhof was good enough to handle them defensively and still provide the assist to the winning goal, calling him not good enough here is a classic drafter move.

I am not a fan of this argument of lesser shiny players being called of lesser calibre. Both are WC final winners. Mauro Silva had to deal with Baggio in his pomp himself.

I think functionally for my tactics, the midfield is absolutely spot on. I trust them so much, and hence I didnt even think about reinforcing them with more shiny names in Tigana/Davids etc that were suggested.

Fair enough if some voters would rather see those shinier players there. I play my drafts differently

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Boy didn't expect to type so much so early in the morning but glad the discussion has picked up. Appreciate all the neutral involvement. Already a much better thread than the one it was earlier yesterday.

 

[Gio]

As I have reiterated, I expect Zico to get involved in the midfield and Ronaldo/Romario to contribute again in Jose's Inter style by running towards the wings and stretch the opposition defense to leave it unorganized. Sort of an offensive defense (I dont call them Etoo here, but they were perfect at dropping deep/running outwide, waiting not just centrally from the counters etc). They will have a great contribution to make in all phases of the game. A game like this demands that and gets that oyut of the best players

I'm not really buying the Mourinho's Inter references for your Brazilian front three, none of whom would have the requisite off the ball work rate to play in such a compact and disciplined system. Romario in particular would find any off the ball duties anathema. These guys cannot be reinvented as disciplined off the ball types - none of those players would make a 'great contribution in all phases of the game'.

The notion that Zico will get involved in midfield is also far fetched. When you categorise number 10s, he was always closer to a 9.5 than the 8 you might buy in that system to help out an overloaded Bonhof and Silva. Ultimately he was much more attacker than midfielder.

Furthermore, I do not believe Romario is well suited to 'running towards the wings' or 'drifting wide all the time' as you have stated on various occasions. 95% of his game was played centrally and he had no interest in foraging wide to create space. He was a selfish player which was part of his attraction.

To be clear I am not questioning the individual quality of any of that brilliant trio. But I am querying the tactical demands you have placed on them which clash with what each of those players stood for.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

I'm not really buying the Mourinho's Inter references for your Brazilian front three, none of whom would have the requisite off the ball work rate to play in such a compact and disciplined system

Its not a like for like system.

I am borrowing parts of it where the front 2 would be ready on the counters out wide and keep the fullbacks on their toes. Ronaldo and Romario are perfect for that.

No where do I mention I am actually using the exact same Mourinho defensive masterclass. I want to give my attackers more of a chance on the ball rather than the Inter Mourinho setup.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

The notion that Zico will get involved in midfield is also far fetched. When you categorise number 10s, he was always closer to a 9.5 than the 8 you might buy in that system to help out an overloaded Bonhof and Silva. Ultimately he was much more attacker than midfielder.

I'll have to disagree there. His goal scoring prowess has lead to him getting called a 9.5 maybe.

Watch his games for Flamengo, he was as much a creator both from the hole and dropped deep often.

That team of the 80's had many players who could score and it all revolved around Zico.

Watch the Liverpool Intercontintal cup final where they build brilliantly from the back. The passing play and switching from back to front and left to right is amazing.

Zico's passes on the counter a delight as well.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Furthermore, I do not believe Romario is well suited to 'running towards the wings' or 'drifting wide all the time' as you have stated on various occasions. 95% of his game was played centrally and he had no interest in foraging wide to create space. He was a selfish player which was part of his attraction.

His bonhomie with R9 showed very little selfishness to be honest. They would pass to each other more often than not.

That pair was not just about running at defenses brutally dribbling and burning chances. The chemistry, 1-2's, one touch play, false passes were a thing of beauty.

Also, being selfish doesnt mean the player would like to be only near the box. You could start wide at times and still score.

Romario at the end of the day liked to run into space like R9. He was not only a poacher.

 

[Gio]

So GSTQ's plan of crowding central areas around Maradona and tightly marking him with Silva sounds very reasonable to me, perhaps reminiscent of Germany in the 1986 final (obvious connection to GSTQ's OP there). My caveat wouldn't be the the quality of GTSQ's - in my book: very fine - CMs, but, as I said above, three players apparently not contributing much (or anything?) to the required compactness against the ball.

Agreed - it's a reasonable tactic and again I put on record how much I rate Silva. As you indicate though, crowding central areas does not work in isolation though and requires the support structures to be in place. I do not see any meaningful defensive layer ahead of them. Nor do I see central clustering very viable when we have such a clearly widely positioned attack. Two genuine wide players in Giggs and Lato happy to be deployed in selfless touchline-hugging roles. Tactically, those two will be kryptonite for any central clustering. They will pull and stretch the defensive line apart. I simply do not see it being that viable as a means of stopping Maradona and Falcao from running the game in the middle, when there is little support above or nearby personnel out wide to create any kind of central cluster.

Maradona is likely to thrive with two natural wide players to open up space for him. Giggs and Lato would also be fantastic outlets to get on the end of his passing. Up against a 3-5-2 system, their sheer pace in behind two attack-minded wing-backs would be a very viable route to goal. If we had opted for other inside-forwards who would might jostle for the ball or who would be inclined to play narrowly, then central crowding becomes much, much more viable. But that isn't the case here and Diego is set for a great game in my book.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

This is the Zico Liverpool game I talk about.

Ripped apart Kenny Dalglish's First Division and European Cup winning Liverpool team 3-0.

Zico assisted 2 goals from deeper positions and assisted 1 goal from his direct free kick which was scored off a rebound from the keeper

Not much, just contributed in all 3 goals and tore Liverpool apart along the way.

The video just shows the goals. If you watch the full game, you'll be amazed at their passing and build up. )The whole Flamengo team and not just Zico)

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Giggs and Lato would also be fantastic outlets to get on the end of his passing. Up against a 3-5-2 system, their sheer pace in behind two attack-minded wing-backs would be a very viable route to goal.

To be honest if the tactic is get the get the ball wide as the wingbacks are attack minded, I'll take that. Rather Giggs and Lato try to create something than Maradona. The lesser he has the ball creating chances, the better for me.

I'll trust the likes of Franco Baresi and Fabio Cannavaro to defend against chances created from the wings. Doesn't really get better defending wise. No one does it better than the Italians. And these two are absolute GOATs.

Also, lets not be harsh on Carlos and Leandro defending wise. They had great recovery speeds and defensive awareness, my last match's research was all around this.

Of course, they might still be caught up field just like Kaiser might be caught out of defensive position on the counters, but its not always going to be a case of bye bye Carlos and bye bye Leandro.

If that was the case, I might as well have invested in wingers rather than wingbacks

 

[Gio]

For what it's worth, this is a well past his best Diego against Mauro, and still looking different gravy to the Brazil midfield. Imagine injecting a peak Diego into that match up.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

For what it's worth, this is a well past his best Diego against Mauro, and still looking different gravy to the Brazil midfield. Imagine injecting a peak Diego into that match up.

Well Mauro and Maradona faced 2 times in 1993. One ended in a draw (Brazil vs Argentina 1-1) and the other Mauro's team Deportivo won (2-0 against Diego's Sevilla).

I didn't bring this up because -

1. It was not prime Diego and would have been unfair
2. I watched the Brazil-Argentina game you posted and didn't see too much of Mauro-Diego clash. So was again not a fair game to judge.
3. The Sevilla-Deportivo game is nowhere available online.

Of course, even though not prime Diego, I think Mauro facing Diego in the past will help him here. He has the experience of being on the same pitch in midfield along with Diego.

 

[Himannv]

Voted for 2muGio mostly because I think Beckenbauer gets too much time on the ball here. With Mauro Silva asked to mark Maradona, that leaves a big gap into which Kaiser steps into and dictates terms without much opposition.

 

[harms]

I am not a fan of this argument of lesser shiny players being called of lesser calibre. Both are WC final winners. Mauro Silva had to deal with Baggio in his pomp himself.

I think functionally for my tactics, the midfield is absolutely spot on. I trust them so much, and hence I didnt even think about reinforcing them with more shiny names in Tigana/Davids etc that were suggested.

Fair enough if some voters would rather see those shinier players there. I play my drafts differently

And you were unhappy when I've had van Bommel on Maradona

 

[willhse456]

Whilst yesterday I couldn't call it, I'm going to go for GSTQ. I think if any team/tactics are going to stop Maradona it's this one, and I can't look past that Brazilian trio on the counter.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

And you were unhappy when I've had van Bommel on Maradona

I probably would still vote against anyone who plays Van Bommel against Maradona. That is a red card waiting to happen IMO.

No thoughts on the game harms?

 

[harms]

This is the Zico Liverpool game I talk about.

It's a classic that had been posted here many times, by @Gio himself as well, I think. But I think when he talks about Zico being a 9,5 he doesn't criticise his creative side, which would be absurd, but rather a defensive contribution.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

It's a classic that had been posted here many times, by @Gio himself as well, I think. But I think when he talks about Zico being a 9,5 he doesn't criticise his creative side, which would be absurd, but rather a defensive contribution.

I have seen even Diego Maradona chase down off the ball. I disagree with this common notion that the creative ones don't contribute to midfield battles. Sure, not everyone can be Gullit, but not everyone is Savicevic too.

I was really surprised with Maradona closing down players off the ball just recently a few days ago when I was watching some game. How often do you see the argument 'Maradona wont contribute much defensively' ?

I probably would have done the same if I had not watched a few full games.

There are different levels to work rate and complete dismissing is not correct. Even the greatest of players wanted the ball back as soon as possible.

 

[harms]

I probably would still vote against anyone who plays Van Bommel against Maradona. That is a red card waiting to happen IMO.

No thoughts on the game harms?

To be fair, the whole strategy was about congesting the central space and Breitner with Beckenbauer helping out I get what you're saying though.

Regarding the game — I haven't decided yet. Gio's side doesn't have a single weakness though.

 

[harms]

I was really surprised with Maradona closing down players off the ball just recently a few days ago when I was watching some game. How often do you see the argument 'Maradona wont contribute much defensively' ?

I think Maradona is well-known for his tenacity and aggressiveness off the ball, actually. Platini was surprisingly involved in the defensive side as well. I'm not saying that Zico won't contribute — but I said that I think that was what Gio meant by saying that Zico was a 9,5, not that he wasn't good (or even an all-time great) in terms of his passing.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

This is the full match Liverpool Flamengo.

Right from the start you can see Zico closing down opponents in possession. In fact the whole Flamengo front line does that from the top.

Midfield contribution off the ball is of course not just limited to tackling alone (Not saying anyone meant that)

 

[Synco]

As I have reiterated, I expect Zico to get involved in the midfield and Ronaldo/Romario to contribute again in Jose's Inter style by running towards the wings and stretch the opposition defense to leave it unorganized. Sort of an offensive defense (I dont call them Etoo here, but they were perfect at dropping deep/running outwide, waiting not just centrally from the counters etc). They will have a great contribution to make in all phases of the game. A game like this demands that and gets that oyut of the best players

My assumption was based on two things - one were your tactical layouts, of course. It's fair to say you plan differently in this game, but tbf I couldn't find much on this prior to my post. Might well be I've missed something, please point me towards it in that case.

The other factor was player characteristics.

And Ronaldo and Romario both were very agile and physical players even off the ball. Its unfair to say there is no pressing against Kaiser with those two of all people lurking around.

If you can point me towards info that show these players fulfilling similar defensive tasks, or indicating a decent defensive workrate in general, you've got me convinced. But it would need that. A bit of research after the semis lead me to different conclusions, but it was not a very deep one.

As I have reiterated, I expect Zico to get involved in the midfield and Ronaldo/Romario to contribute again in Jose's Inter style by running towards the wings and stretch the opposition defense to leave it unorganized.

When originally reading it, I actually understood that to be about attacking movement, not about defensive tactics. In the graphic Zico is said to push into the box, after all.


Edit: Will take a look at the video you just posted

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

When originally reading it, I actually understood that to be about attacking movement, not about defensive tactics. In the graphic Zico is said to push into the box, after all.

Sorry for starting with the last point but this is a problem I have faced in multiple games now.

The graphics most time indicate the team on the ball and same should not be applied off the ball.

Need to think of some method to portray both sides of the game it better.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

If you can point me towards info that show these players fulfilling similar defensive tasks, or indicating a decent defensive workrate in general, you've got me convinced. But it would need that. A bit of research after the semis lead me to different conclusions, but it was not a very deep one.

Probably too late in the game to dig something out as this would need watching the full game. Wish you had requested this earlier

Anyways, lemme see what I can find as I didn't book mark any games as I did with other players.

 

[2mufc0]

My assumption was based on two things - one were your tactical layouts, of course. It's fair to say you plan differently in this game, but tbf I couldn't find much on this prior to my post. Might well be I've missed something, please point me towards it in that case.

The other factor was player characteristics.

If you can point me towards info that show these players fulfilling similar defensive tasks, or indicating a decent defensive workrate in general, you've got me convinced. But it would need that. A bit of research after the semis lead me to different conclusions, but it was not a very deep one.

When originally reading it, I actually understood that to be about attacking movement, not about defensive tactics. In the graphic Zico is said to push into the box, after all.


Edit: Will take a look at the video you just posted

If you're looking for Rooney/Tevez type pressing these two are not the best fit for this, as Gio already pointed out Romario did not enjoy the defensive aspect of the game at all. I don't recall Ronaldo being a great presser either, but willing to change my view if evidence comes forward.

 

[Synco]

Probably too late in the game to dig something out as this would need watching the full game. Wish you had requested this earlier

Anyways, lemme see what I can find as I didn't book mark any games as I did with other players.

It's a bit of a pity and not entirely fair that I could only make these points so close to the deadline, but the time window for discussion is pretty tight.

 

[Gio]

Sorry for starting with the last point but this is a problem I have faced in multiple games now.

The graphics most time indicate the team on the ball and same should not be applied off the ball.

Need to think of some method to portray both sides of the game it better.

Yeah I suggested showing different phases in the OP before, but I don't think there was much appetite as it's a lot of work for sometimes relatively little gain.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Alright, that is me done with my last points.

Sorry @Synco , sharing proof of Fenomeno's work rate, especially when he drifted wide would have been the perfect ending I guess, but that will have to wait for some other game as am no where near a PC.

Cheers. Been a good discussion all around.

 

[Synco]

Have voted for 2mufc/Gio, reasoning is still the same:

Imo, it would take extraordinary compactness & tenacity to defend the center against Beckenbauer/Falcao/Maradona/Müller while still containing the wide threat from the wingers. In the end, I don't think their opposition could do that. I can totally accept that further discussion may have shifted the impression in GSTQ's favour, but I have to vote on my impressions up to now. (I have no doubts about 2mufc/Gio's team's defensive capabilities, as I said. From what I know, I'd expect every one of their players to be active in that regard.)

I wish there'd been time to dig deeper, but deadline is deadline unfortunately.

 

[Gio]

I am not a fan of this argument of lesser shiny players being called of lesser calibre. Both are WC final winners. Mauro Silva had to deal with Baggio in his pomp himself.

I think functionally for my tactics, the midfield is absolutely spot on. I trust them so much, and hence I didnt even think about reinforcing them with more shiny names in Tigana/Davids etc that were suggested.

Fair enough if some voters would rather see those shinier players there. I play my drafts differently

It's not about shiny names, after all you have the shiny attack.

We opted for Giggs over Dzajic for the very same reason. IMO Dzajic is the better player who has fantastic pedigree against some of the all-time greats, but we felt that Giggs would offer a lot of the same 1v1 quality, but ultimately be a better fit for the team - working hard off the ball, creating space for Maradona.

We kept Lato in for precisely the same reason. The only thing shiny about Lato was his bald head, otherwise he's just an Eastern European who doesn't get the plaudits he's probably due for his incredible international record for Poland. To me the guy with his incredible pace (apparently below 10.5 for the 100m), eye for goal (45 goals in 100 caps), and selfless team play seems custom designed to get into the space between your LWB and your LCB. Maradona always loved playing with the electric Claudio Canniga for many of the same reasons.

We could have brought in another superstar attacker or right winger for Lato, but we felt he fit very well. Instead we assessed the opposition strengths and prioritised our reinforcement at CB. Generally Santamaria is good enough for a final, but we wanted a Kaiser/Kohler fortress there to withstand your attack, and provide a rock solid platform for the likes of Falcao, Maradona and Muller.

Each of these three decisions were made to get the best out of Beckenbauer and Maradona. They were made to mitigate your strengths while exploiting what relative weaknesses you have.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

It's not about shiny names, after all you have the shiny attack.

We opted for Giggs over Dzajic for the very same reason. IMO Dzajic is the better player who has fantastic pedigree against some of the all-time greats, but we felt that Giggs would offer a lot of the same 1v1 quality, but ultimately be a better fit for the team - working hard off the ball, creating space for Maradona.

We kept Lato in for precisely the same reason. The only thing shiny about Lato was his bald head, otherwise he's just an Eastern European who doesn't get the plaudits he's probably due for his incredible international record for Poland. To me the guy with his incredible pace (apparently below 10.5 for the 100m), eye for goal (45 goals in 100 caps), and selfless team play seems custom designed to get into the space between your LWB and your LCB. Maradona always loved playing with the electric Claudio Canniga for many of the same reasons.

We could have brought in another superstar attacker or right winger for Lato, but we felt he fit very well. Instead we assessed the opposition strengths and prioritised our reinforcement at CB. Generally Santamaria is good enough for a final, but we wanted a Kaiser/Kohler fortress there to withstand your attack, and provide a rock solid platform for the likes of Falcao, Maradona and Muller.

Each of these three decisions were made to get the best out of Beckenbauer and Maradona. They were made to mitigate your strengths while exploiting what relative weaknesses you have.

Gio, my point was about lack of shiny names on my midfield shouldn't discount it from getting its due credit.

I don't think people voted for you because of shiny names. Didn't say or mean that of course.

I quite like the balance in your team and right after the initial drafting ended, I remember calling out yours and Dogma's team as the finalists.

It would have been the case if not for their feck up picking up George Best.

Congratulations on the win @Gio @2mufc0 . Second time I am losing to both of you in the last 3 drafts. Next time shall be mine

 

[Gio]

Some team @GodShaveTheQueen. I've always wanted to pair Zico and Romario, and then Romario and Ronaldo, so to do all three at once is just pure indulgence.

Compared to the average, I probably rate Zico, Carlos, Silva and Leandro higher. To me Carlos is as good as any left wing back, and Leandro oozed technical ability and would be absolute dynamite in a set-up like yours. Same on Zico, who I only really rate below Pele/Messi/Maradona in the no10 stakes.

Thanks for organising @Indnyc and credit to @2mufc0 for doing all the heavy lifting.

 

[2mufc0]

Echo what @Gio said great drafting @GodShaveTheQueen, I really liked the way you transformed the team with reinforcements too.

Thanks to @Indnyc for running the draft, and great stuff by the draft Don @Gio in the last couple of games.