Athletic | Manchester United: Inside Ralf Rangnick’s spell as interim manager

Bojan Djordjic said:
This is probably lost among the more sensational stuff in the article but it's so telling. Recruitment meetings taking place where nothing happens.

Also, I wish the cliché that January is a bad time to do business would die a death. Kulusevski, Bruno Guimaraes, Christian Eriksen, Coutinho and Luis Diaz were all done in January of this year in the PL and have had huge impacts for their clubs. Bruno was signed in a January window for god's sake.
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I think you misread the situation.

It's not only about being skeptical about January signing, it's more about how broken football operation is.

The system is still too reliant on a manager rather than a head coach. When changing the manager, the Football director/Recruitment team had no authority at that time to push for signing that could have helped saving the season and be beneficial for the new permanent head coach.

Yet at the same time, the planning is all reactive, and lagging behind the need of the team. You feel like the power that be at the club really thought they had their new SAF in Ole, that no need for a plan in case Ole fail (which many in the fanbase kinda foresee).

Once Ole failed, it still took longer than necessarily because they still waited to see whether Ole could still bounce back. RR is an emergency appointment, so we can buy time for the new manager search after ignoring Conte. However, it means having to write off the season,because now in charge is a big picture system first semi retired manager. especially when as mentioned above, the way this club ran, it also means recruitment work stop until new manager appointment, that gives little room for success.

Only hope is that with recent changes the power transition from Woodward regime is over, it would be better going forward where football people can do their job and fulfill their duty
 
stevoc said:
Every player playing in every league that United could potentially sign had intimate knowledge of the inner workings and problems at United but the fans who follow the club very closely didn't have a clue?
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If you are going to sign for a club then you know someone who knows someone who knows a United player. Or your agent knows their agents etc. Im pretty sure no player signs for a club without finding out anything about the players and what goes on. It gets talked about in football circles trust me. The fans are not part of that circle. They get thier knowledge from media or guesswork. At a push bobs uncle who works in catering heard a story about a delivery man who went to Old Trafford and heard an argument maybe.
 
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Teja said:
spent 90M on signing Amad, Pellestri and VdB.
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Was looking at VdB's Ajax stats on Wikipedia and he seems to have progressively worsened in output (Goals+Assists) prior to joining United.
There is literally nothing impressive about Amad and Pellestri prior to joining United.
Whoever was the final 'decider' on this needs to be sacked immediately. What a horrid waste of money.
 
Ralf was just good for us, he was clearly always perplexed as to how basic our problems are, and said as much, it was just such basic stuff, but it needed to be said, he was also left totally exposed after he came in as manager, with no transfers, losing Greenwood, and lots of loans.

The only up side is that he could end up been the fall guy that finally puts us on the right track.
 
UpWithRivers said:
If you are going to sign for a club then you know someone who knows someone who knows a United player. Or your agent knows their agents etc. Im pretty sure no player signs for a club without finding out anything about the players and what goes on. It gets talked about in football circles trust me. The fans are not part of that circle. They get thier knowledge from media or guesswork. At a push bobs uncle who works in catering heard a story about a delivery man who went to Old Trafford and heard an argument maybe.
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Being able to maybe find out some inside information through contacts/friends isn't exactly the same as everyone in football already knowing though.

But anyway the good news for them is they don't have to bother even speaking to anyone this coming window as every problem with the squad and the club (true or not) has been blasted all across the media for the last 6 months. It'll be a real time saver I imagine.
 
Biggins said:
If Mourinho had his way then Pogba and Martial would have been gone! So we would have got rid of at least two toxic players years ago... the players that Mourinho wanted to buy as replacements is a different story.
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Martial got out, yet the toxicity persistent and arguably got worse.
Pogba was part of a winning Juve and French NT, never mind that he wa in Dubai when the atmosphere got noticeably worse.
These players have underperformed and haven't been arsed at times, but they're not the root cause of our issues.

ilrm said:
Was looking at VdB's Ajax stats on Wikipedia and he seems to have progressively worsened in output (Goals+Assists) prior to joining United.
There is literally nothing impressive about Amad and Pellestri prior to joining United.
Whoever was the final 'decider' on this needs to be sacked immediately. What a horrid waste of money.
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Context is important here. In his last Ajax season after De Jong left, he played deeper in midfielder and not as the no 10.
The season before, he scored some important goals in the CL. It's common for teams to drop in performances domestically when they're going deep in Europe.
West ham for example. The drop off is bigger for Dutch teams with their smaller squads.

I don't rate him all too highly, but he certainly didn't regress through his stint at Ajax as the stats would suggest when taken at face value.
 
It is amazing that the Ralf cult here in redcafe is alive and well.
 
These players are a joke. No matter how shot the manager is, thatvdressing room is a shitshow, most behaving like young teenagers
 
All this reinforces what I think needs to be done. Minimum 10 players need to be moved on and minimum 5 need to come in, ideally 6, in this transfer window. The rot needs to be cleared out.
Like Rangnick has said, up to 10 new players need to come in and it shouldn’t take more than 3 windows. The recruitment needs to be spot on.
Anything else isn’t good enough for the club we are and it would once again underline how damaging the glazers are.
 
Look in rear, I still think getting RR on board was a correct decision. At that moment, you start question why all our coaches could not survive more than 3 years , and it must be something higher and deeper rooted in our management approach and process that hindered the success. So the logical way was to bring in an outsider and expert on building football club, and let him find out the problems and provide the solution.

We could hire Eddie Howe or Conte if we did that earlier, but appointing another coach in rush would just be a rinse & repeat process of another 3 years' failed project.

Now, RR does give his diagnosis that:
  1. Current squad could not play the modern pressing football and lack of physical quality. (his comment in couple pressers)
  2. Dressing room issue (his latest comment that after knocked out from CL, the team never resumed confidence and energy)
  3. The recruitment to replace all those unsuitable of modern football is vital (his open-heart surgeon comment)
  4. Our recruitment planning is questionable ( the Matic replacement case as mentioned in today's article)
  5. Our renewal process is questionable (reward past performance instead of evaluating future performance, renew fringe players to preserve the so-called book value)

Now we see some signs that the new management team followed his solutions: sacked those in-charge of scouting and contract negotiation; get a coach who could bring the football we would like to play in long run. These are fruits that we pick from bringing in RR instead of rushing the decision, at the costs of this season's top 4 place.

I do see some bright sides brewing , hopefully this is not something too optimistic .
 
Still so funny to see that majority of fans don't understand what Ralf actually did and are pissed at us finishing outside CL spots. You all are short-term minded people who cannot make sacrifices in the near future just to benefit hugely in the later stage of your life. That's why you don't succeed in your life, your ambitions don't match your efforts and instead of enjoying financial benefits of your reasonable actions you are splashing cash on meaningless things.

/rantover

Okay, so yes - Ralf failed as we all wanted to secure a top4 spot. That is true. His gameplan seemed totally opposite than we had in mind when he at first arrived. We saw gegenpressing and energetic display maximum 45 mins per game, then everybody looked gassed. Or uninterested.
Our football was crap.

But he showed us (mostly to the board and ETH) where the problems are. He is like the auditor who shows all the weaknesses and issues of a company and I'd say he did it 10/10.

Yes, in a perfect world he would have been a sort of assistant manager or a sporting director, not a head coach (or manager as we have) and some more competent interim would have been instead of him, guiding the team to CL spots, but I'm not sure if then all the issues would have been visible. So yeah - one crap season but if it helps to take out the trash and lay the foundations (big up to my man Louis van G), then it's a great deal.
 
He couldn’t turn shit into wine doesn’t mean it’s his fault we didn’t end up with wine
 
Mickeza said:
How the feck is that article positive in any way about Rangnick? It's damning of everyone at the fecking club :lol:
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Right ..so the idea of blaming Ragnick alone is quite short sighted. Glad you agree.
 
The Irish Connection said:
All this reinforces what I think needs to be done. Minimum 10 players need to be moved on and minimum 5 need to come in, ideally 6, in this transfer window. The rot needs to be cleared out.
Like Rangnick has said, up to 10 new players need to come in and it shouldn’t take more than 3 windows. The recruitment needs to be spot on.
Anything else isn’t good enough for the club we are and it would once again underline how damaging the glazers are.
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That's not some shocking revelation though is it? He's just saying something that would be true of almost any team at any point in time.

We signed 9 players over the last 3 windows under Solskjaer and Henderson came back from a loan which makes 10 players added to the squad.
 
afatzp said:
Look in rear, I still think getting RR on board was a correct decision. At that moment, you start question why all our coaches could not survive more than 3 years , and it must be something higher and deeper rooted in our management approach and process that hindered the success. So the logical way was to bring in an outsider and expert on building football club, and let him find out the problems and provide the solution.

We could hire Eddie Howe or Conte if we did that earlier, but appointing another coach in rush would just be a rinse & repeat process of another 3 years' failed project.

Now, RR does give his diagnosis that:
  1. Current squad could not play the modern pressing football and lack of physical quality. (his comment in couple pressers)
  2. Dressing room issue (his latest comment that after knocked out from CL, the team never resumed confidence and energy)
  3. The recruitment to replace all those unsuitable of modern football is vital (his open-heart surgeon comment)
  4. Our recruitment planning is questionable ( the Matic replacement case as mentioned in today's article)
  5. Our renewal process is questionable (reward past performance instead of evaluating future performance, renew fringe players to preserve the so-called book value)

Now we see some signs that the new management team followed his solutions: sacked those in-charge of scouting and contract negotiation; get a coach who could bring the football we would like to play in long run. These are fruits that we pick from bringing in RR instead of rushing the decision, at the costs of this season's top 4 place.

I do see some bright sides brewing , hopefully this is not something too optimistic .
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It's been reported by Mitten and I believe Luckhurst also that Rangnick had little to do with any of those decisions.
 
stevoc said:
That's not some shocking revelation though is it? He's just saying something that would be true of almost any team at any point in time.

We signed 9 players over the last 3 windows under Solskjaer and Henderson came back from a loan which makes 10 players added to the squad.
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True. What I meant to say was we should be front loading the rebuild by bringing in 6 players this summer, which I believe is what Rangnick meant. Then another 4 next year.
 
The Irish Connection said:
True. What I meant to say was we should be front loading the rebuild by bringing in 6 players this summer, which I believe is what Rangnick meant. Then another 4 next year.
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Well I hope we can sign 6 quality players this summer but I doubt it to be honest. The budget will only go so far and even if we sign 6 no guarantee all of them will work out.
 
stevoc said:
Well I hope we can sign 6 quality players this summer but I doubt it to be honest. The budget will only go so far and even if we sign 6 no guarantee all of them will work out.
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I doubt it too. Any less than 5 though and I think we’ll struggle again.
 
The Irish Connection said:
I doubt it too. Any less than 5 though and I think we’ll struggle again.
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Yeah I think so. DM, CM, RB, CB and a striker are all needed badly. We can't be going into another season with the likes of Dalot and McTominay as regular starters.
 
Lots of disheartening stuff about how Ralf has been treated. He never had a fair go, hopefully things become better in that regard with the club putting all of its eggs in the ETH basket. They just have to.

However beyond that we still have a mega rebuild ahead of us. I cant believe about some of the players turning their noses at having to play according to tactics. WTH. If ever there were primadonnas at a football club...

Gosh we have players we need to get rid of. And fast. Before even thinking of bringing anyone in
 
Though he did make some ill-advised choices while coaching, and I really didn't trust him. That turned when the players went full-court in the media to disparage him and his staff as if they are fit to question him after consistently failing. The last line really puts into play how this club really thinks when it comes to actual football. Worst part of those deals is that they never were given a fecking chance. I am ready for a full on documentary about this because this has been probably my worst feeling I have gotten from any other sports team I support besides San Jose.
 
I feel he overestimated what the job scope of managing a big club entails

He probably thought he could come in, lay out his tactics, get in some coaches to implement it, and we get top 4. I really think if the players were receptive of his coaching, we would easily get top 4, maybe even top 3. The fact is, we have really only play Ralfball just once, and it wasn't even a full match. It's that first 30 mins in the first half against Palace.

What he didn't expect was walking into a squad with a massive internal strife, players simply do not want to follow his tactics thus requiring him to compromise (to the point of basically reverting back to Oleball), coaches he wants to get wouldn't want to leave for a 6 month gig thus him having to resort to getting 3rd/4th choice underqualified coaches, backbiters and leakers, 5-6 of the players with expiring contract have already mentally checked out, Ronaldo is seemingly undroppable or it'll cause a massive fallout

Ralf failed before he was even given a chance to coach.

It's funny because remember when Ole is sacked, people have been crying out for a ruthless, no nonsense, unapologetic manager. Well that's Ralf and it failed horribly. We need someone yesman like Ole to coddle the squad
 
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devilish said:
Most of the scouts were brought in by SAF, Mou and LVG. Woodward has his share of fault. He meddled into areas that he shouldn't have had simply because he lacked competency in it. That incompetence was exploited by our managers. However he did bring the players the manager wanted most of the time.
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I'd say our recruitment over the last decade fell broadly into three categories

1) Players the manager at the time knew well or had a personal recommendation from a contact

Fellaini, Valdes, Romero, Lukaku, Matic, Blind, Depay, Lindelof, Dalot, Rojo, Pellistri, Dan James, Ibrahimovic

2) Players the club lazily decided to buy without much research because we were offered them by an agent and/or felt we could sell shirts

Di Maria, Falcao, Schweinsteiger, Ronaldo, Varane, Van der Beek, Cavani, Juan Mata

3) Players that were signed by the recruitmemt team/transfer committee -

Telles, Bailly, AWB, Maguire, Schneiderlin, Sancho, Diallo, Martial, Fred, Pogba, Mhiki, Darmian

Whichever way you look at the above, its an abject failure.

Modern clubs take a scientific approach to analysing and assessing players. They don't take phonecalls from their old mates or agents and sign players without really doing their due diligence.

Also, they don't let managers choose players. Managers get one vote and possibly a veto, but they certainly are not allowed to hand-select players. The reason for this should be obvious. The manager will think short-term and the club should be thinking long-term. It also encourages a mess and a clash of styles, which is exactly what we have now.

Putting all of these processes in-place and building these teams was one of Ed's key roles but he arrogantly believed he could take on the bulk of this work himself, despite having no background as a football man or an analyst.

Also, a proper recruitment team should include Data scientists - Liverpool have actual rocket scientists in their team. We have SAFs old mates and a few old stragglers various managers have picked up. Still sitting in the stands using the "eye test" and taking recommendations from people they know.

It'a just a terrible approach. It didn't start with Ed - our recruitment was arguably poor at times under SAF and Gill, but Ed certainly made it worse/failed to address structural failings
 
Lentwood said:
I'd say our recruitment over the last decade fell broadly into three categories

1) Players the manager at the time knew well or had a personal recommendation from a contact

Fellaini, Valdes, Romero, Lukaku, Matic, Blind, Depay, Lindelof, Dalot, Rojo, Pellistri, Dan James, Ibrahimovic

2) Players the club lazily decided to buy without much research because we were offered them by an agent and/or felt we could sell shirts

Di Maria, Falcao, Schweinsteiger, Ronaldo, Varane, Van der Beek, Cavani, Juan Mata

3) Players that were signed by the recruitmemt team/transfer committee -

Telles, Bailly, AWB, Maguire, Schneiderlin, Sancho, Diallo, Martial, Fred, Pogba, Mhiki, Darmian

Whichever way you look at the above, its an abject failure.

Modern clubs take a scientific approach to analysing and assessing players. They don't take phonecalls from their old mates or agents and sign players without really doing their due diligence.

Also, they don't let managers choose players. Managers get one vote and possibly a veto, but they certainly are not allowed to hand-select players. The reason for this should be obvious. The manager will think short-term and the club should be thinking long-term. It also encourages a mess and a clash of styles, which is exactly what we have now.

Putting all of these processes in-place and building these teams was one of Ed's key roles but he arrogantly believed he could take on the bulk of this work himself, despite having no background as a football man or an analyst.

Also, a proper recruitment team should include Data scientists - Liverpool have actual rocket scientists in their team. We have SAFs old mates and a few old stragglers various managers have picked up. Still sitting in the stands using the "eye test" and taking recommendations from people they know.

It'a just a terrible approach. It didn't start with Ed - our recruitment was arguably poor at times under SAF and Gill, but Ed certainly made it worse/failed to address structural failings
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If you ask me, United's recruitment system was/is a mess. We've got managers having a say and a veto, the scouts have a say, the data analysts have a say, the DOF and the technical director have a say as well, the latter having near zero experience in recruitment at this level. Then everything was forwarded to an accountant who had no clue about the player in question or how to deal with agents. No wonder why we overpaid (fees and salaries), we went for the obvious signings (a type of consensus need to be reached between all parties) and we struggle to sign more then 4 players per year.

This has an impact on most decisions made as lack of ability in handling a high staff turnover force us to give contract extensions to players who should have been sold
 
stevoc said:
Why did Ralf and the club allow them to leave then?

They were under contract so they couldn't just unilaterally decide to feck off mid-season. Ralf didn't seem too fussed when he let McKenna leave for Ipswich a few weeks into his reign.
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Coaching staff do not have contracts like players - they don’t have a balance sheet asset value - they are treated the same as any normal working employee - ie they would have a notice period.

After Ole was given the boot several decided it was time for them to move on. Carrick decided to leave after his brief spell and McKenna went for another job. The club let them go there and then rather than hang around as they would need replacing anyway - football clubs don’t keep staff like that - therefore Ralf was on the back foot immediately as he had to cobble together a coaching team for a 6 month period - hence we/RR ended up with low experienced assistants that had no understanding of the club.

Therefore Ralf was shafted the day he walked through the door.
 
GoldanoGraham said:
Coaching staff do not have contracts like players - they don’t have a balance sheet asset value - they are treated the same as any normal working employee - ie they would have a notice period.
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KcKenna was in the 3rd year of a 3 year fixed term contract, if his contract had an early termination clause that allowed him to hand in his notice then yeah he could leave early. But neither of us would have any idea if such a clause existed in his contract. And if he could just hand in his notice and leave then not sure why he bothered going to the trouble of asking for permission to speak to Ipswich officially.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...s/man-united-mckenna-ipswich-manager-22484943

GoldanoGraham said:
Therefore Ralf was shafted the day he walked through the door.
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So was United's season.
 
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