Assessing Man Utd's psychological fortitude: Who are the weak links?

Loony BoB said:
I generally think of mental strength not as in "how I move the ball" but "how willing I am to keep pushing myself and those around me when the going gets tough".
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the going gets tough when nobody wants the ball off their own team mate
 
Siorac said:
There is absolutely no way for us to know this. The whole armchair psychology thing is a bit pointless because we just can't know. Is McTominay hiding from the ball because he's a coward or does he just not have the awareness and anticipation? Does Maguire commit stupid mistakes because he's mentally fragile or simply because he physically and technically can't cope with the demands of a team that isn't set out to protect its back four first and foremost?
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I remember once upon a time redcafe armchair psychologists convinced themselves that Lukaku was some kind of mentality monster.
 
clarkydaz said:
the going gets tough when nobody wants the ball off their own team mate
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Well it looks to me that now, and in the coming seasons under Ten Hag, we'll have enough of the type of players who will be able to drag us out of those type of performances that became all too commonplace over the past 10 years. It's why I think this thread is ill-advised. We have every reason to be optimistic and not to be looking for a particular player to blame in advance of the coming season. I'm more of the mind to take things as they come and enjoy watching the team progress. There'll be bumps along the way and I don't think we'll be challenging for a title next year but I'm excited to see how the team comes together.
 
Siorac said:
There is absolutely no way for us to know this. The whole armchair psychology thing is a bit pointless because we just can't know. Is McTominay hiding from the ball because he's a coward or does he just not have the awareness and anticipation? Does Maguire commit stupid mistakes because he's mentally fragile or simply because he physically and technically can't cope with the demands of a team that isn't set out to protect its back four first and foremost?
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Agree with this. Good post, mate.
 
flappyjay said:
I remember once upon a time redcafe armchair psychologists convinced themselves that Lukaku was some kind of mentality monster.
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And for all I know, he might be! What I know is that his second touch is a tackle and that he loves pointing to where he wants the ball only to lose it immediately because he can't trap a bag of cement.
 
Well, mentally weak or lacking big-game mentality simply means 'players I don't like' on RedCafe.

Simply pointing out facts here, because I like both, especially Martinez BUT....last season we conceded 7 against Liverpool and 6 against City and bizarrely, I didn't really see the performances of our two CBs (Varane and Martinez) critiqued at all.

I dread to think what names Maguire and Lindelof would have been called, had they played in those games.

Point is, fans have decided they like Martinez and Varane, so when we get tanked and they play, you never hear 'mentality' mentioned at all. It's really just a phrase people throw around with absolutely nothing to support it, to damn players they don't like
 
Borninthe80ts said:
I think as a team and club we’ve been suffering from confidence issues for the last 10 years really and this has had a tremendous effect on self belief and mental resilience.

The friction in the dressing room, lack of cohesion on the pitch and changing managers and systems have all had an effect too. So it’s difficult at times to know whether it’s a player being low or not having the dog and fight in them.
When players are happy and winning they run harder and fight more, so if we can sustain the form shown at times last season more this, the benefits will show. Think this rings true especially for a few in our squad who are ‘ confidence’ players.

I think we know the obvious candidates but think Ten is having effect on those individuals too, hopefully!
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I sometimes used to think that De Gea had the dog in him. After all, I once heard him described as looking like an ‘anaemic werewolf’.
 
There have been strong hints of Sancho being mentally weak, but hopefully he is over that now.

Also, Maguire seems very insecure or that’s the way he comes across in interviews.

Apart from that I don’t know.
 
Lost bear said:
I sometimes used to think that De Gea had the dog in him. After all, I once heard him described as looking like an ‘anaemic werewolf’.
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Dude, out of everything that’s what you got from my post hahahah! You got me fact checking your post now though…
 
The whole downing tools when the going gets tough business, seems to be a bit of collective thing with some of our players.

Watching players body language at OT when we are being given a tough game is always telling. Maguire / Shaw / Sancho / Martial / Fred / even Rashford at times, all have stood out to me for a while of just dropping their heads when they arent 2 or 3 up.

I think we are just missing that voice on the pitch keeping them in check. Maguire has been a poor captain. How can another player take him seriously or listen to his orders when his mistakes are costing points every other game.
 
For too long now we've had this block in big away games where we either freeze or just completely shit our pants. Going to these hostile away games like City, Liverpool and actually being able to play our own game and let the opposition worry about us would be huge. Far too often we change our shape/mentality at away grounds to be more defensive, and it doesn't suit us.

The likes of Bruno, Rashford, Shaw have all had absolute stinkers at away ground when things have gotten tough. That has to stop. You don't see De Bruyne or City putting in 4/10 performances in big away games, as a rule they generally turn up. We need our big players to start doing that on a consistent basis. IT's never going to be 10/10 perfromacnes every game, but getting a regular consistent 7/10 or 8/10 with the odd 9's and 10's chucked in has to be the aim.
 
GazTheLegend said:
@rio's upper lip I always felt like David de Gea was mentally weak, personally. Which is strange because he was a real Jekyll and Hyde for us, he would literally pull off unbelievable saves in the last minutes of games to win them for us when he was clearly riding a wave - but against the likes of City, Liverpool, for Spain and for us in the CL + Europa later stages he often felt like an absolute liability.

I'm not suggesting that Onana will necessarily improve us in that regard, but he's certainly played his share of big games at this point at 27 years old. Whether I'm proven correct in the long run I am not sure, I always felt like a commanding presence - and some early game saves - would help us, de Gea often let in the first shot on target against him.
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I agree with this. By the end of his stay, I had no trust in him for big games.
 
Lost bear said:
No, your post was interesting mate. It's just my sense of humour. I bow deeply.
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Nah it’s cool brav, I was tickling ribs myself too! People are right nobody knows exactly what’s going on in other folks heads but we can all have empathy and sympathy when necessary.
 
Loony BoB said:
People saying McTominay is mentally weak - I'd love to hear their reasoning for it. He's one of the more mentally strong players in our squad as far as I'm aware. Gets flack from fans and doesn't get impacted by it in his performances or (as far as I can tell) his overall attitude. He's in the faces of our opponents and is verbal towards the players he plays with, and if he goes without minutes he still comes back fighting.

Sancho could perhaps be seen as mentally weak by some, but perhaps our playstyle just really doesn't suit him because he never had issues at Dortmund. Still, the fact that the manager mentioned it is telling. Shaw has also been mentioned in the past for his mentality, but more so that he struggles mentally when he's not being challenged -whenever a challenge comes up he seems to step up, hence whenever a new LB is brought in he seems to come out stronger for it.

Honestly, I agree with those that said that it's simply not something we can really know for sure.
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watch how he hides during the game by positioning himself behind opposition players thus giving no option for his teammates to pass him the ball. i think thats cowardie because it cant be instruction issue can it not?
 
Going back to the 7-0 and how/ why we fell apart? Shaw and Fred had shockers, Dalot was destroyed, De Gea wasn’t commanding and confident. There are 4 players there that won’t/ likely won’t play for us again. De Gea, Weghorst (rubbish headless chicken), Fred and Mctominay, (was a sub) Elanga (sub). No one player rose to that occasion. I’d like to think the squad having finished 3rd, reaching two finals and going far in Europa plus with our additions in a vocal commanding keeper, an England International with a champions league medal to join Cas and Varane with theirs and a young but fearless striker we will be more mentally strong and more difficult to beat.
 
rio's upper lip said:
As we await the start of the new season under ten Hag, it's important to reflect on the challenges that have plagued the club in recent times. One major concern that has haunted us has been the issue of psychological fragility in certain players, leading to collapses under pressure in too many games in recent years. With ten Hag making significant changes to the squad over the course of a couple of windows (with possible additions coming), it's an opportune moment to discuss where the weak psychological links still remain in the team.

With a squad fully fit, this is probably the starting XI for the first few matches:
  • Onana
  • Shaw
  • Martinez
  • Varane
  • Dalot
  • Casemiro
  • Mount
  • Fernandes
  • Rashford
  • Antony
  • Højlund/Martial/Sancho
Players like McTominay, Maguire, Lindelof, Wan-Bissaka, Garnacho and Eriksen will also get plenty of minutes and their mental fortitude will be critical throughout the season.
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Different concerns for different players.

Maguire, Martial and Sancho are liable to crumble under pressure. They're the biggest worries.

Rashford can let his head drop, Bruno can let frustration get the better of him, and McTominay can get lost on the pitch.

It's only really Martinez, Varane and Casemiro who we know are fine.
 
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