[el3mel]

Nobody else got a fair chance really. He had plenty of bad games and mistakes, and he was never a long term plan for the position. His defensive performance against Liverpool wasn't a one man effort, and he didn't stop Salah on his own. It was a collective good defensive performance, in which Bailly was the best and yet he scored an own goal.

We revise nothing, just state the obvious. Anyone who followed the situation without any agenda would have told you that Shaw will play better if given a run of games.

He was pretty good for the majority of last season tbf. His form started to drop heavily by the later half of it though and it's still continuing now.

 

[VeevaVee]

Nobody else got a fair chance really. He had plenty of bad games and mistakes, and he was never a long term plan for the position. His defensive performance against Liverpool wasn't a one man effort, and he didn't stop Salah on his own. It was a collective good defensive performance, in which Bailly was the best and yet he scored an own goal.

We revise nothing, just state the obvious. Anyone who followed the situation without any agenda would have told you that Shaw will play better if given a run of games.

It was obvious why Young played. He came in and looked better from the off. Everyone here was happy for him to continue playing too. Shaw would play and look poor and out of shape. That's a great reason not to get games.
No agenda here. Shaw is excellent this season. Most consistent players for us so far. It's just disrespectful on Young to call him a turd that can't be flushed, when he's been patient on the bench then stepped up when called upon. He's obviously not good enough for first choice in the long run, but he did a job, which was more than anyone else was doing.
Now we have an exciting young fullback and want to see him play, particularly now that Young isn't playing well.

 

[MadDogg]

Oh come off it. He has the luxury of being on the good page of Jose notebook and he got leeway others did not. He had plenty of awful games last season.

He was good in the first half of the season. Performed comfortably better than any other fullback on either side. Most people on here were talking about him being the best performing leftback in the league at that point.

Of course, in the second half of the season he was quite average, barring the odd great game here and there (like against Liverpool).

 

[Kostov]

It was obvious why Young played. He came in and looked better from the off. Everyone here was happy for him to continue playing too. Shaw would play and look poor and out of shape. That's a great reason not to get games.
No agenda here. Shaw is excellent this season. Most consistent players for us so far. It's just disrespectful on Young to call him a turd that can't be flushed, when he's been patient on the bench then stepped up when called upon. He's obviously not good enough for first choice in the long run, but he did a job, which was more than anyone else was doing.
Now we have an exciting young fullback and want to see him play, particularly now that Young isn't playing well.

No it was not. He came in and looked good, yes that's true. Was he a winger turned full back? Yeah we all knew that. He could whip in a good cross and he played with great commitment but there were evident flaws in his game. All that while we had a great young LB getting the rare game here and there.

And that sentence when people peddle that shit about Shaw being unfit or playing poor is what get fans like me thinking some of you were so up in Jose's ass, that you twist facts. Shaw was very good when he had a run of 4-5 games, and everybody with a brain cell would have seen the long term benefit of him staying in the team, compared to Young. I'm in no way trying to disrespect Young, I can never doubt his heart, but it's on the manager to see the long term benefits of the team.

And it's not that we NOW have an exciting young full back, we've had him fit and needing a chance and run of games since the beginning of last season, someone did not show faith in him a year sooner.

 

[Kostov]

He was good in the first half of the season. Performed comfortably better than any other fullback on either side. Most people on here were talking about him being the best performing leftback in the league at that point.

Of course, in the second half of the season he was quite average, barring the odd great game here and there (like against Liverpool).

He was pretty good for the majority of last season tbf. His form started to drop heavily by the later half of it though and it's still continuing now.

He was good yes, but he was never a long term solution for the position. While we had a talented LB sitting on the bench and now when given a proper chance has shown higher level than that of Young, that's the thing I was referring.

 

[Adam-Utd]

He's managed to reinvent himself really well and extend his career with us, but let's be honest we shouldn't be relying on him or Valencia anymore.

We need younger / fresher upgrades.

 

[drdoityourself]

He's already showing signs of being past it, and Ashley Young at his best was never seen more than a squad player.
He works hard and shows commitment but he's 33 in the summer, let's not keep pissing in the shoe and retain him.

He played well in parts last season, he's always done that. Come in, had a couple of very good performances, followed by a bucketload of run of the mill average ones.

The squad is arguably someway behind the top sides, it's not always about signing an expensive star player. We should be seeing out the contracts of the ageing squad players and use the opportunity to freshen things up. Bring in players who aren't just here to be squad players, players who have years ahead of them and potential to improve the first team in the long run. Dalot has the makings of being the first of those signings.

 

[VeevaVee]

No it was not. He came in and looked good, yes that's true. Was he a winger turned full back? Yeah we all knew that. He could whip in a good cross and he played with great commitment but there were evident flaws in his game. All that while we had a great young LB getting the rare game here and there.

And that sentence when people peddle that shit about Shaw being unfit or playing poor is what get fans like me thinking some of you were so up in Jose's ass, that you twist facts. Shaw was very good when he had a run of 4-5 games, and everybody with a brain cell would have seen the long term benefit of him staying in the team, compared to Young. I'm in no way trying to disrespect Young, I can never doubt his heart, but it's on the manager to see the long term benefits of the team.

And it's not that we NOW have an exciting young full back, we've had him fit and needing a chance and run of games since the beginning of last season, someone did not show faith in him a year sooner.

You're making a narrative up. Something people do in this threads all to regularly. Not up Jose's ass at all. I think he's done.
But if you're not good enough and unfit, which was clear for all to see, I'm quite happy with the manager not playing you. Get fit and play well, you play, which is exactly what we've seen with Shaw.
Should Dalot be playing now? I think so.
Could we have agreed to disagree without the unnecessary agg from you? Definitely.

 

[ForestRGoinUp]

If Ashley Young or Antonio Valencia were wearing the armband for one of our rivals we’d be making fun of it. Great effort guys, thanks for your service and contributions to not all that much. Retire elsewhere, please.

 

[Kostov]

You're making a narrative up. Something people do in this threads all to regularly. Not up Jose's ass at all. I think he's done.
But if you're not good enough and unfit, which was clear for all to see, I'm quite happy with the manager not playing you. Get fit and play well, you play, which is exactly what we've seen with Shaw.
Should Dalot be playing now? I think so.
Could we have agreed to disagree without the unnecessary agg from you? Definitely.

Contrary I don't think Jose is done, maybe I'm naive but I still think he could turn it around. I think we all agreed that unfit shit sticked on Shaw was behind us? He still looks the same "fat" guy that people gave abuse over nothing. It was not clear for all to see, it was evident that the guy needed a chance and more faith from the coach. Even Mourinho himself praised him to the sky in January when he gave him a run of games.

All I'm saying is that, it's not such a surprise that young football players need a bit of protection and the benefit of the doubt. I'm glad he is getting those minutes this moment, but it could have been done a season earlier. And it wasn't done, not because of Young playing to some undisputed great level, but mostly because Mourinho didn't give the same chance to Shaw.

 

[IAmAWinner]

I think he did ok against the best player in the league.

 

[Red_Ramirez]

Had Hazard in his pocket in the 2nd half.

Him and Mata men of the match for me

Like I said before if the so called more talented players put in the same effort and desire week in week out Young does we'd be top of the league.

 

[Kostur]

He was tremendous today, captain's performance really.

 

[Idxomer]

Terrible 1st half and brilliant in the 2nd.

Still he's a dirty player and I don't really like watching him play for United.

 

[gr3yham3]

He had a better second half, but what was he doing for the 2nd Chelsea goal? Ball was floated far post towards 2 players in blue, and he choose to hang back and ball watch, letting Smalling go against 2 players?

 

[ForestRGoinUp]

Applaud the second half performance but still a shame he features so much for us, let alone that he wears the band.

 

[Red_Ramirez]

I just wish the more talented players in this bunch had his desire and attitude

Shame

Anyway well done Ashley. Played well. Hazard didnt get a sniff

 

[izec]

He had a better second half, but what was he doing for the 2nd Chelsea goal? Ball was floated far post towards 2 players in blue, and he choose to hang back and ball watch, letting Smalling go against 2 players?

Yep, maybe he thought the ball would fly over them. He should have gone for it, maybe it would have been enough to derange Luiz

 

[gr3yham3]

Yep, maybe he thought the ball would fly over them. He should have gone for it, maybe it would have been enough to derange Luiz

Exactly. Last minute of the game, a cross comes in towards your post and you ball watch from 3 yards away? Very poor end to a good 2nd half performance. At least get in there and try to put them off.

 

[MadDogg]

As everyone else is saying - somewhat poor first half, very good second half, then doesn't contest for the ball at the end there.

 

[Devil may care]

Don't think it was a MOTM performance like Nevs did but he did well enough as Hazard didn't massively impact the game.

 

[11101]

Did well enough during the game but its a case of another game another goal hes cost us. Ball watching at the end and had no idea Luiz was coming in for the header. I've lost count how many times this season he has been out of position or reacted poorly and its led to us conceding. We need to upgrade urgently.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

Thought he was class especially after that yellow card. Hazard barely got a sniff against him. Didn't add much to the attack but considering he was up against hazard and Alonso I'd take that defensive performance any day.

 

[Mcking]

Had Hazard in his pocket in the 2nd half.

Him and Mata men of the match for me

Like I said before if the so called more talented players put in the same effort and desire week in week out Young does we'd be top of the league.

You forgot the lad that actually got the goals.

 

[WR10]

Was fantastic until he ran out of gas around the 65th minute. Anyone that seriously thinks he should still be starting for us need to watch him individually from the 70th minute on. He looked like a player that needs to be retiring in the MLS. Hazard was mostly nullified by our deep block. Laughable that Gary gave him MOTM - disrespectful to mata and martial.

I still love his heart and desire though. Move him on with respect.

 

[Ish]

You forgot the lad that actually got the goals.

I don’t think he forgot, in the Martial thread he seems to want Martial to put in as much effort and desire as Young and be more consistent.

 

[Red_Ramirez]

I don’t think he forgot, in the Martial thread he seems to want Martial to put in as much effort and desire as Young and be more consistent.

Martial would be world class if did

 

[Mcking]

Martial would be world class if did

You really adore Ashley Young, don't you?

 

[Devil may care]

He'll likely be on Ronaldo duty on Tuesday unless Mourinho has one of his wacky moments and plays Herrera at RB.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

He’s been a solid if not spectacular player for us. Far far better player and captain than Valencia, although that’s a extremely low bar.

We really need Dalot to start featuring more often for us, otherwise we are going to burn out Shaw on the left, if Young keeps playing at RB.

Young is 33, and was against one of the top 5 players in the league on the weekend, so no wonder he was knackered - and it’s clear he can’t do that twice a week throughout the season. If Shaw was out for a period of time, we would be in real trouble.

 

[11101]

Brought over from another thread:

We have conceded 11 goals in the 5 games Ashley Young has played.
We only conceded 5 goals in the 4 he hasn't played in.

Of those 11 goals:

3 v Brighton
Goal 1 down his side, defence out of shape covering for him out of position.
Goal 2 started down his side, again Bailly over covering for him and made a mess of it.
Goal 3 came down his side, Bailly stuck between covering two players because Young was out of position.

1 v Watford
Nothing to do with him

3 v West Ham
Goal 1 - not on him.
Goal 2 - Stood completely still watching Yarmoleko shape to shoot from 6 feet away.
Goal 3 - more on other defenders but there was a huge gap between the centre backs because McTominay was too far over, covering the absent Young at right back.

2 v Newcastle
Goal 1 - caught out of position and completely done for the goal.
Goal 2 - Let his man control, turn and shoot on the penalty spot.

2 v Chelsea
Goal 1 - not him.
Goal 2 - allowed Luiz to run in for a completely free header.


Other players were involved in many of those goals but you would say Young was at least 50% responsible for 5 or 6 of those 11 goals, and somewhat responsible for another 2 or 3 where he has put other defenders in impossible situations. Watching them over, he is almost always out of position or slower to react than everyone around him. He is killing our defensive organisation.

In comparison, Luke Shaw on the other side has been partly at fault for just 3 goals in 8 games, all from allowing crosses in.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Goal 2 - allowed Luiz to run in for a completely free header.

Bit harsh - he see's Chris Smalling going for it (someone who is miles better in the air then him) and lets it go... if he had challenged for the ball, literally nothing would have changed. Did you see Luiz's jump? He's always winning that header.

The main problem with that goal was everyone just standing and staring at everything that happens after the ball hits the post.

 

[11101]

Bit harsh - he see's Chris Smalling going for it (someone who is miles better in the air then him) and lets it go... if he had challenged for the ball, literally nothing would have changed. Did you see Luiz's jump? He's always winning that header.

The main problem with that goal was everyone just standing and staring at everything that happens after the ball hits the post.

Any decent defender knows to block that run and get in the way so Luiz doesn't get to it in the first place, exactly as Luiz did to Pogba on their first goal. Young just backs away and leaves Smalling to rush over from his own man.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Any decent defender knows to block that run and get in the way so Luiz doesn't get to it in the first place, exactly as Luiz did to Pogba on their first goal. Young just backs away and leaves Smalling to rush over from his own man.

...Young is looking at the ball and is tracking it's path (as he realises its coming his way and doesn't want it to drop behind him) - Luiz comes from wide left and hits it with a running jump. Unless you want Young to stop looking at the ball and just run into Luiz, there's not much he can do.

Luiz is nowhere near Young when the move starts - he's actually Andreas' man

He leaves it for Smalling, which isn't the worst decision in the world ... he probably should have attempted for it too, but no way he's beating David Luiz in the air.

For discussion :

 

[Cambion]

Hasn't Barkley put him on the floor in the build up(foul missed by the officials), so he is playing catch up.

 

[roonster09]

Bit harsh - he see's Chris Smalling going for it (someone who is miles better in the air then him) and lets it go... if he had challenged for the ball, literally nothing would have changed. Did you see Luiz's jump? He's always winning that header.

The main problem with that goal was everyone just standing and staring at everything that happens after the ball hits the post.

This is the biggest problem. Forget anticipation, the reaction to header was so poor. All players just stood there hoping De Gea will bail us out.

 

[11101]

...Young is looking at the ball and is tracking it's path (as he realises its coming his way and doesn't want it to drop behind him) - Luiz comes from wide left and hits it with a running jump. Unless you want Young to stop looking at the ball and just run into Luiz, there's not much he can do.

Luiz is nowhere near Young when the move starts - he's actually Andreas' man

He leaves it for Smalling, which isn't the worst decision in the world ... he probably should have attempted for it too, but no way he's beating David Luiz in the air.

For discussion :

Looks to me like Andreas was marking one of the two Chelsea players on the edge of the box. Luiz drifts off the back of the pack and then comes in from the left. Regardless of who is marking who at the start, at that point Luiz is the huge danger but Young still has no idea he is there as he is ball watching. Smalling actually spots him before Young does. He doesn't need to win the header if he blocks Luiz from getting close enough to jump for it in the first place. Its as simple as putting his body there so Luiz doesn't have so much time to pick his placement.

Once the ball has turned into a pinball it's too late, whether the players react or not.

Anyway, it's not so much a single goal to get hung up over. It's the trend that when you analyse the goals we have conceded this season, Young is often involved somewhere.

 

[Andersonson]

Should play again tomorrow. Our best right back.

 

[criticalanalysis]

...Young is looking at the ball and is tracking it's path (as he realises its coming his way and doesn't want it to drop behind him) - Luiz comes from wide left and hits it with a running jump. Unless you want Young to stop looking at the ball and just run into Luiz, there's not much he can do.

You've just described Young as doing exactly what some are saying he's done wrong at i.e ball watching. It's a cliche but the expression 'don't let the ball drop' is heard a million times in football because it's the most dangerous flight of a ball.

He should have moved towards the ball, jumped, blocked or somehow affect that with his physical presence. No ifs, no buts. The goal wasn't solely his fault but he has to take some blame there.

 

[Ekeke]

...Young is looking at the ball and is tracking it's path (as he realises its coming his way and doesn't want it to drop behind him) - Luiz comes from wide left and hits it with a running jump. Unless you want Young to stop looking at the ball and just run into Luiz, there's not much he can do.

Luiz is nowhere near Young when the move starts - he's actually Andreas' man

He leaves it for Smalling, which isn't the worst decision in the world ... he probably should have attempted for it too, but no way he's beating David Luiz in the air.

For discussion :

Marking players isnt all about winning the ball instead of them. Its about influencing what is happening. If Young could subtly stop Luis from doing exactly what he wants in the air, it would be a lot more effective than doing nothing like he did.

Alternatively he could have come forward to make contact with the player who ends up blocking Smalling's run at the ball and given his CB a better chance of meeting Luiz.

The one thing he does, is the least effective thing he can do. There's a reason they played a long ball into his area. He's not very good at dealing with it. On the other side Shaw wins a decent amount of headers compared to the other fullbacks in the league. He's sure to have done more