Game seems very much in the balance right now. A few quick wickets or a good batting stand for the rest of the day could really direct where this test match is going.
Ashes II - 2013/14 - In Australia
- Thread starter NinjaFletch
- Start date
Some of these tracks in Australia are sub-continental type flat.
It has been some really good bowling combined with some really bad batting.
It is seaming a touch now, but you really shouldn't be losing wickets the way England have been, in general.
It has been some really good bowling combined with some really bad batting.
It is seaming a touch now, but you really shouldn't be losing wickets the way England have been, in general.
FFS Cook! He was doing so well as well. Hope England can keep going here.
Realistically one of these two needs to get a century. Pieterson's looking very iffy but getting very lucky, he'll either be out very soon or go on to do well. Otherwise beyond this partnership there's not really much, although they're all capable of playing supporting roles and putting on 30-40, Anderson aside.
EDIT: Very soon it is. Wouldn't be too surprised if its all out for <200 now. Be surprised if we make over 250, and stunned if its 300.
EDIT: Very soon it is. Wouldn't be too surprised if its all out for <200 now. Be surprised if we make over 250, and stunned if its 300.
Well done Pieterson, when England need you again, you are nowhere.
say what?
They are nothing like sub-continent pitches! Only SCG and Adelaide come close but even they aren't sub-continent type. Funny you should say this when a match at Perth is on. Even if pitches are flat, a Australian flat pitch will behave differently to a Indian flat pitch to a England flat pitch.
It is not that much different. This Perth pitch is very flat. Bowlers are getting good bounce and that is it. Same with some Indian pitches where spinners will get some turn otherwise it will be good batting surface.
In England, there is always some movement, if not due to the pitch then due to the weather.
Go on and have a count as to how many players got out to good wicket tacking balls.
The umpiring has been appalling across the two series and its somehow been shifted on to DRS as the root of the problem.
Yea. My memory might be letting me down, but I don't recall a 600 plays 600 pitch in India since about 2010 when NZ toured.
Might be some draws against WI? but there was a period in 2010 when it was ridiculously flat -- Harbhajan making back to back centuries, and Sri Lanka making a lot of runs.. but that after, we've had pitches similar to the ones in Australia right now.
And I don't enjoy watching it.
It's rather reliant on attritional bowling and to Australia's credit, they've got 2 bowlers who are very good at that.
Seriously? Did you even see today's match? Show me a Indian pitch where you can get that kind of bounce. The wickets might not have come on unplayable deliveries but those were perfectly setup wickets after barrage of spells in very good areas which were very tough to score of.
You yourself have proved my point, though not totally, that just a flat wicket doesn't mean a sub-continent wicket by saying an Indian pitch will aid spinners and be good batting surface otherwise. A flat Perth wicket will still behave whole lot differently to a flat Chennai wicket. Look at the deliveries which took off after pitching today from Australian pacers. Is it possible to have it in India?
Each pitch has it's own characteristics. The weather definitely plays crucial role but flat wickets everywhere won't/don't behave same.
The why did we lose as badly as we did in Australia and won comfortably in India against them?
I agree on attritional type bowling but if Siddle/Johnson/Harris try to bowl same line/length in India, they won't get same result even if broadly you will classify both pitches as 'flat.' Australian pitches have a very true bounce and pace attached to it which Indian pitches never had.
Thankfully I found an article explaining it. Have a read.
http://www.theroar.com.au/2012/11/25/what-makes-australian-pitches-different-from-all-others/
The wiki article will also help. On first couple of days, from outside, any pitch will look 'flat' unless it has lots of dust or grass. Won't mean they all will be same. Hell, to me none of the 5 top Australian venues seem to have same pitch. They all are very unique.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cricket_pitch
There's some bollocks in that article about why the ball swings.
I'd speculate the biggest difference between why it swings in England and doesn't in Australia is the Duke vs Kookaburra.
I'd speculate the biggest difference between why it swings in England and doesn't in Australia is the Duke vs Kookaburra.
not all flat pitches are the same, to be fair. Flat just means there's no variation...whether it's low or bouncy makes no difference. Batsmen who can't play on bouncy tracks will alway struggle on pitches with tennis bowl bounce regardless of the pitch being flat/predictable.
Feather beds don't even offer bounce. Those are the worst for fast bowlers.
Ignore the part about swing but he is not totally wrong.. I shared it mainly for the first few paras about the 'difference in pace' on slow pitches vs dead pitches.
I don't agree it is ONLY the make of the ball which makes ball swinging more. Too simplistic imo and wrong as well.
For swing, I read a fantastic one recently. Very technical but on the mark. The weather conditions and lively grass on pitch plays its part but read this article on why a ball swings.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/258645.html
I didn't say only, I said biggest.
I think I've come across that article before (not in that guise but I think Imran Khan wrote an article on it in the Times ages ago).
In fact, I believe the science actually says that atmospherics play no role in why a ball swings and perhaps cloud cover only really explains swing as a sort of placebo effect for fast bowlers. If they believe the ball will swing (because of the conditions) subconsciously they will do things that make it swing from a scientific standpoint.
I am quoting only one of your posts but again you are missing the point crappy and myself are making. The pitches are flat pitches with the one characteristic unique to the country they're in. In Australia it bounces but does little else, in India it spins a little, but does little else.
Hehe and I think you guys are missing my point
What I am saying through these posts is, that doesn't make the tracks similar. You said they are 'subcontinental type flat' initially, which I have had problem with.
This.
I've just seen the Root dismissal.
fecking hell, the ball was about a metre past the bat before snicko acknowledged a noise.
They've actually managed to add more technology and get a decision wrong that they would have got right with just hotspot.
fecking hell, the ball was about a metre past the bat before snicko acknowledged a noise.
They've actually managed to add more technology and get a decision wrong that they would have got right with just hotspot.
"If you are wondering why so many stupid-looking shots are played at the WACA, it's because you don't understand the sun, the ground and the pitch. Cook didn't play the cut shot badly through stupidity or hubris, he did it because of everything that went before it. Not the humiliation at the Gabba or the crushing loss in Adelaide, but 212 minutes of standing out there and playing this in-form, carnivorous side in this mood, in this climate."
http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2013-14/content/story/700279.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2013-14/content/story/700279.html
All DRS does is highlight how incompetent the umpires are. Previously we could just say "oh well, maybe from where he was standing, in real time, it was tricky" but now we find out that they are actually incredibly easily confused and can't even apply the rules correctly.
We clearly need to clear-out and rebuild our batting line-up. I've always been very pro-KP through his various tribulations, but I think it's time to say thanks and goodbye - the negatives about his game now massively outweigh the positives and he's not getting any younger.
If he has a stunning season in County cricket, then maybe he can fight his way back in, but we can't pick him on his past anymore.
I think that's harsh. DRS has just highlighted the extraordinarily fine margins in cricket. I don't think the human eye can really be relied on in cricket umpires if we're not going to allow for mistakes.
Personally i'd like to see James Taylor and Gary Ballance introduced into the team after this series, Taylor has been treated extremely badly. Although its far more likely Bairstow will. Although Bairstow's long term future is Prior's replacement, whenever that will be.
Pietsersen should be dropped, he's been on terminal decline for a long time now. Before he'd save himself with one huge score a series but now he's just the easiest wicket going. The guy is never ever in, its a shame as with the unrelenting negativity we desperately need someone positive in the side, but Pieterson isn't positive he's stupid. Genuinely one of the most over rated cricketers of all time, if not the most. It's painful when you see people call him England's greatest batsmen. Having a nice array of shots doesn't make up for a complete inability to learn from his mistakes.
It'll be interesting to see how the game today goes, realistically England need 350 just to be in touch. And you'd think Stokes and Bell will have to carry England till at least 250 together. How desperately we could do with the old Prior who'd pretty much guarantee a decent score to add on to the total. Hopefully his last innings wasn't a one off.
Pietsersen should be dropped, he's been on terminal decline for a long time now. Before he'd save himself with one huge score a series but now he's just the easiest wicket going. The guy is never ever in, its a shame as with the unrelenting negativity we desperately need someone positive in the side, but Pieterson isn't positive he's stupid. Genuinely one of the most over rated cricketers of all time, if not the most. It's painful when you see people call him England's greatest batsmen. Having a nice array of shots doesn't make up for a complete inability to learn from his mistakes.
It'll be interesting to see how the game today goes, realistically England need 350 just to be in touch. And you'd think Stokes and Bell will have to carry England till at least 250 together. How desperately we could do with the old Prior who'd pretty much guarantee a decent score to add on to the total. Hopefully his last innings wasn't a one off.
You might not like him, you might think he's not got much between the ears, and you might bemoan the fact he can't play a disciplined knock; but Kevin Pietersen is undeniably one of England's greatest.
Pieterson's scores for us in 2013 have not been good enough -
19, 4, 53, 18, 26, 50, 62, 26, 44, 113, 8, 2, 5, 14, 64, 73, 0, 12
Average of just 32.
Then again, everyone has been horrendous, Bell aside.
19, 4, 53, 18, 26, 50, 62, 26, 44, 113, 8, 2, 5, 14, 64, 73, 0, 12
Average of just 32.
Then again, everyone has been horrendous, Bell aside.
ffs, worst possible start.
Well that's the game. Expect the collapse now.
Harris is easily the best bowler on either side though. Johnson's been hilariously overrated based on cleaning up the tail (a job England could still do with mind), Harris is the one we should actually be fearing. Takes wickets every single innings, and important ones at that.
Harris is easily the best bowler on either side though. Johnson's been hilariously overrated based on cleaning up the tail (a job England could still do with mind), Harris is the one we should actually be fearing. Takes wickets every single innings, and important ones at that.
It really didn't look like it was hitting to me to be honest, I think Bell was unlucky.
This is why Stokes shouldn't be playing. Not good enough with the bat or ball. Might as well another specialist in there who will give something with either one.
Bell didn't look out to the naked eye. Definitely looked like it was going over.
What a truly pathetic collapse. Again. No bottle at all in this side. Even after Cook and Carberry opened well for once the rest of the team is still hopeless, 122-7 now since then.
I'd say the decision to play Stokes was ludicrous but frankly this goes far beyond one player, not a single batsmen in form, or player really. Only Broad has done anything passably decent on average so far. Still, quite why we went for someone who's been distinctly average as a bowler and has scores of 1, 28, and 14 with the bat, ove
Once again I can't help but feel the teams pathetic attitude to run rate was costly though. For most of Cook/Carberry's partnership they were going along nicely about 3.7 then about half hour before Carberry's wicket they decided to go to a snails pace. For a team who can't bat for long I'm just exasperated by why the team is continuosly content to go along at 2.5ish an over. Having to stay in for 150 overs just to get a average score is absurd. I realise the bowling has been good but Christ, there's just no ambition at all. It was exactly the same away in New Zealanad with England's bowlers smashed all over the place and then not getting any runs when it comes to batting. It seems like the tactic is lose a wicket then block out the first 10 overs, but no one survives long enough in that time to actually start scoring runs.
Every single game we play like we're trying to bat out on the final day. To put things into perspective, 5 Aussie batsmen have scored more runs than any other English player - and that's with them declaring on 132-3 in the 2nd innings last game.
Frankly I hope we go on to lose the series 3-0 now, some freak weather events for the last two games, i'd hate for 2 wins in nothing matches at the end of the series to hide serious deficiencies and serious lack of performances from most the players. India away aside this team has been desperately poor batting wise since summer 2011 whilst the bowling is getting worse too. Big decisions need to be made - Scrap Cook as captain for starters, he's not suited to it, and he's turned into a crap batsmen (although he's easily been the best player this innings) with the pressures of it.
I'd say the decision to play Stokes was ludicrous but frankly this goes far beyond one player, not a single batsmen in form, or player really. Only Broad has done anything passably decent on average so far. Still, quite why we went for someone who's been distinctly average as a bowler and has scores of 1, 28, and 14 with the bat, ove
Once again I can't help but feel the teams pathetic attitude to run rate was costly though. For most of Cook/Carberry's partnership they were going along nicely about 3.7 then about half hour before Carberry's wicket they decided to go to a snails pace. For a team who can't bat for long I'm just exasperated by why the team is continuosly content to go along at 2.5ish an over. Having to stay in for 150 overs just to get a average score is absurd. I realise the bowling has been good but Christ, there's just no ambition at all. It was exactly the same away in New Zealanad with England's bowlers smashed all over the place and then not getting any runs when it comes to batting. It seems like the tactic is lose a wicket then block out the first 10 overs, but no one survives long enough in that time to actually start scoring runs.
Every single game we play like we're trying to bat out on the final day. To put things into perspective, 5 Aussie batsmen have scored more runs than any other English player - and that's with them declaring on 132-3 in the 2nd innings last game.
Frankly I hope we go on to lose the series 3-0 now, some freak weather events for the last two games, i'd hate for 2 wins in nothing matches at the end of the series to hide serious deficiencies and serious lack of performances from most the players. India away aside this team has been desperately poor batting wise since summer 2011 whilst the bowling is getting worse too. Big decisions need to be made - Scrap Cook as captain for starters, he's not suited to it, and he's turned into a crap batsmen (although he's easily been the best player this innings) with the pressures of it.
Told you, Prior's supposed confidence boosting hitting session in the previous test was a pointless excercise. Hitting when playing under no pressure when the match has already gone doesn't really get you prepared to play an innings that can mean something.
Prior is the worst combination of a player, decent wicket keeper, awful batsman.
We should try to get to 100 behind and then treat it like a t20 powerplay and just hit.
We should try to get to 100 behind and then treat it like a t20 powerplay and just hit.
Complete nonsense. Prior is a very good keeper and as good a batsman, or at least was till his 6 month slump. I watch a lot of test cricket and the number of times he pulled England out of a mess, or turned a drawn match into a winning position is huge. Absolute clutch player. Did it in all conditions, as well.
Wrapped up now. Massive effort from the Aussie bowlers.
He was A top batsman, look at him now, 6 months is a long time to have a slump, At this point I would much rather see Jonny Bairstow
Broad gone to hospital for X-Ray. Awful, awful news for England.
Broad injured. Good thing Stokes is playing.