I'd just wait to see if they adopt the preexisting structure. It's not sure to be the exact same thing with a higher bank balance.
Arnold/Murtough would have an easier life under new owners.
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Is this sarcasm? Can we get link?
Wonder what division Murtough would be working in when new owners have a clear out
Yes!
Just joking. And it’s a bit on my own expense too, because I can also wonder if someone like Arnold really is that awful.
But with that said — at all relevant positions, you want to have the best people in the world for the job. Right? We wouldn’t buy a goalie if he isn’t the one that best fits the description that we want from a GK. It’s the same withe CEO role, the DoF role etc.
It’s really hard to make an argument that Arnold should be the best guy for the job.
Yeah if Murtough survives until the summer that's when I'll judge him fully. He'll have had time to get things in place and has already appointed two deputies to share the workload.
Under new owners unless we keep Arnold and Murtough without the glazers we will never know how good or bad they are I think it proved everything is still 100% driven by the glazers, slowness of transfers, when to cut the flow of money off etc, when we had finished buying then losing the first 2 games the speed we bought Antony. The glazers shit the bed, released more funds and it was done in days.
If the glazers wasnt selling up and if we had been say 7th after the wc 8 points adrift of top 4, I believe Gakpo would have been signed. Its all to do with penny pimching with them.
If the glazers wasnt selling up and if we had been say 7th after the wc 8 points adrift of top 4, I believe Gakpo would have been signed. Its all to do with penny pimching with them.
I swear, I was reading this exact shite last summer. The guy was appointed March 2021. It's been nearly two years and our supposed splurging this summer has cost is Gakpo.
Some of these comments would fit right in with the Tories and their ever-lasting quest of fixing the shit they themselves have broken and issues caused by the fixed itself.
From SAF to Gill right to LVG and Ronaldo, how many times must people come up and tell you that the Glazers can't be arsed of managing the club? They negotiate the football transfer budget with their football people and then the latter are tasked in signing players, negotiating salaries and fees. Which means that all the feck ups done (overspending, Murtough-Arnold going to Barcelona and Turin only to return holding their dicks in their hands, we overspending on Martinez and Antony etc) is their own doing.
I am not saying that Arnold and Murtough are idiots. Arnold was the brains behind United bringing in so many sponsors at the club while Murtough played an important role in the youth academy and the women team. However they are not suited for the job they are in. Its as simple as that. They are two people who were thrown in a job they have zero experience in and time and time again (this is more about Murtough rather then Arnold) had shown that he's awfully out of depth.
I am not saying that Arnold and Murtough are idiots. Arnold was the brains behind United bringing in so many sponsors at the club while Murtough played an important role in the youth academy and the women team. However they are not suited for the job they are in. Its as simple as that. They are two people who were thrown in a job they have zero experience in and time and time again (this is more about Murtough rather then Arnold) had shown that he's awfully out of depth.
This supposes that Gakpo would have been a good purchase to begin with which is highly debatable considering he plays primarily as a left wide forward where United are already overflowing with players. The smart move may well have been to abandon pursuit of Gakpo given he has no real convincing history of playing and thriving as a Centre forward which is the position we need to fill.
I swear, I was reading this exact shite last summer. The guy was appointed March 2021. It's been nearly two years and our supposed splurging this summer has cost is Gakpo.
Some of these comments would fit right in with the Tories and their ever-lasting quest of fixing the shit they themselves have broken and issues caused by the fixed itself.
Nah, with new owners a new management (structure) will be set in place. This is how it works.
We just signed Martinez, Antony, Casemiro, Eriksen, and Malacia. How can anyone say Murtough is failing at his job? It was his first summer in charge and we signed 4 major players, after an absolute horror show of a season under the Ole, Rangnick and Woodward triumvirate. I'm absolutely keen to see what he can do with proper owners in charge alongside ten Hag. The clamouring for "experienced" DOFs like Edwards and Mitchell, both of whom cut their teeth as relatively inexperienced football men, is a bit funny.
Seriously though, what great strategic thinking did you see there from Murtough? Martinez, Antony and Malacia were clearly coach identified and driven. Casemiro was a panic buy (that has worked out immaculately) when Murtough's entire summer pursuit of FdJ never came to fruition despite Frenkie being absolutely clear all year that he had no interest in United. Eriksen was a freebie.
We paid 100mn for Antony even though he's clearly not worth half of that figure. We also overpaid for Lisandro too given the market we've bought him from but he's just been so good that it's overlooked. These overpayments are now having an impact on our future squad building when we can't even pay for a loan fee.
Also, why was Rangnick brought in as a football consultant and then made manager? Why was his consultancy ignored but they were happy to have him manage the club into the ground when he's not a manager? Also there is weird stuff going on with the data side. Dominic Jordan was appointed but didn't seem to advertise for his team until this summer. Won't belabour that point because I'm not sure if he's ultimately responsible for that but it makes intuitive sense that it would fall under a DOF. None of this screams of competence to be honest.
A- Murtough has been here since forever. He's known as Woodward's fixer and he was promoted by him thus throughout the years he had the guy's ear. Thus unless you believe that the CEO of our club would do everything on his own then part of the faults/merits of that time were done by Murtough as well
B- With all the talk of new scouts, new data analysts and new tea ladies employed we still did what we had always done ie we went for the manager's targets no questions asked. We also overspent massively (Antony is nowhere near worth 100m) and we also spent an entire summer chasing De Jong only to end up with an egg on our face only to repeat that embarrassing situation with Rabiot.
Thus there's nothing that remotely suggest that Murtough had improved the situation on the transfer market and everything points at Woodward simply giving his trusted man an official role before fecking out.
Head scouts have not long been in place actually, see a few posts up where Adnan informs me
Murtough gets criticised for "panic buying" Casemiro and at the same time, EtH gets praised, not Murtough, for signings such as Martinez. Either we judge Murtough based on all the signings made or none at all.
We now have a head of scouting, Mayorga, and a director of data science, Jordan. We should start to see some of the benefits of this in the summer - people just need to be patient. It will lead to data driven identification of players and the scouting team actually having a significant say in the players to be targeted, which should align with EtH's philosophy.
We now have a head of scouting, Mayorga, and a director of data science, Jordan. We should start to see some of the benefits of this in the summer - people just need to be patient. It will lead to data driven identification of players and the scouting team actually having a significant say in the players to be targeted, which should align with EtH's philosophy.
Why has Gakpo been such a trigger for so many folk? He's a LW, did we desperately need another player in that position?!
What so many miss (which is pretty telling) is not the fact that we're not getting Gakpo but the fact we're not spending any fecking money AT ALL.
It's not like we'll go and spend £40m on a RB to challenge Dalot and grab a promising midfielder or CB, we're literally penny-pinching loans while our top 4 rivals go in hard (Chelsea might get Fernandez and for all of Boehly's craziness, that's ambition for you).
The other hypocrisy in all of this is that this is a player our manager, who we are meant to be backing, wanted explicitly (anything else is just absolute lies from the people pushing this story in the press a week ago).
My issue with this is, says who? You?
What’s this got to do with murtough or Arnold though? An idiot could have told us that the money was spent in summer, the reports were that they borrowed to complete the Antony deal, and with the club up for sale, surely you’d logically conclude there is no major money for a January shopping spree. January is more expensive to buy in conspired to summer. The sooner people get it into their heads “we have very little money to spend” the better. We will only break it out for someone truly exceptional. Otherwise prepare for a loan signing
This is the Glazers' line. We always find Jan challenging, not just this year.
Last year Spurs got two players on a loan-to-buy and got top 4. Why can't Murtough the Mastermind pull this off when it was Spurs' DoF who was instrumental in getting those done (and getting Conte)?
Because he's not very good and this is why this is relevant.
Saf, Gill, Ronaldo etc. The Glazers don't meddle in football affairs
It’s not a line this year, it’s reality. If you’re expecting a buy whilst the club is for sale, during the most expensive window, then you’re in for a very big disappointment!
loans are our only hope
btw didn’t spurs DOF work with them before and Conte? Not exactly hard in those circumstances
Many posters (usual suspects) still haven't noticed that the Glazers don't spend more than we earn.
We spent £200m in the summer and somehow people think there's loads more where that came from. Have they been living under a rock for the last 17 years?
We spent £200m in the summer and somehow people think there's loads more where that came from. Have they been living under a rock for the last 17 years?
Read the OP. The core issue appears to be us not signing another LW when we're already stacked in that position. We're being sold as well right now so transfers, when we already had to take loans for the summer, isn't clever. More than happy to have a sit in and hate on the Glazers but some folk are just childish with their complaints.
Still no hopes of even a loan signing,we just need a finisher down the middle that's all
I think we will get a loan signing in but that’s it. It’s no surprise that he’s bigging up his squad players
Honestly that's all I want until the summer,just someone who will get those scrappy goals Rashford & Martial don't
It’s not even January yet & you’ve come to that conclusion already?
Generally get stories before window opens,don't count Felix as think loan fee has put us off.
Good post.
Like I've said before, the true test for John Murtough is going to be the summer window of 2023. And the reason I've been saying that is because he didn't have the support structure in place which would enable him to provide alternative options for ten Hag. He's put in place the Argentine Jose Mayorga and Simon Wells at the top of the recruitment chain. And both men replace the outgoing heads of scouting, Jim Lawlor and Marcel Bout. He's also put in place the club's first data science team on the football side of the club.
I can't judge Murtough before he's had the opportunity to put the above in place, and then when you put the above in place, you have to give them at least a season to scout and analyse targets for the ten Hag blue print, which involves identifying players for the positional play principles the head coach in question believes in, where the objective is to dominate all phases of play from the defensive to the attacking third and hence play the game in the opponent's half.
And we also need to remember that Matt Judge was still involved as the director of transfer negotiations up until the summer window of 2022. So it'll be interesting to see who will take up the role of Matt Judge when it comes to negotiating deals.
I've also read people say that we need the best in class DoFs who have experience. But if you take a glance at some of the biggest and most successful clubs in the world. Then it becomes pretty clear that there's no such thing as a best in class DoF with the top clubs in Germany and Spain etc opting for DoFs who are either former players or people who have a association with their clubs.
So those clubs hire their own people to oversee the football side of the club in DoF roles, but put in place the best in class scouting, data science, sport science etc. And all it requires to bring in the best in class recruiters/scouts etc, is to use a head hunting firm that does the job for you, which all the top clubs use according to available reports.
I said judge him fully. He wasn't great in the summer but that's also loaded against the club not wanting to release the funds for Casemiro and/or Antony earlier in the summer forcing us to overpay late in the window. Still though, doesn't look good for him. Ignoring the FDJ thing because that's a whole fiasco by itself.
I swear, I was reading this exact shite last summer. The guy was appointed March 2021. It's been nearly two years and our supposed splurging this summer has cost is Gakpo.
Some of these comments would fit right in with the Tories and their ever-lasting quest of fixing the shit they themselves have broken and issues caused by the fixed itself.
I'm not really going to criticise the pair for missing out on Gakpo, we're in a pretty strange situation right now with already cumbersome owners being in the seemingly final stretch of a sale.
I do expect a Murtough to be able to have a team in place able to identify players the manager needs, it's been a year since he's been the decisions guy (he was credited with hiring Ragnick in November 21).
These players shouldn't be costing 80m+ either, who couldn't identify Casemiro, Fdj etc, we need to be buying these players before they become a hit (Fernandez, Alvarez, Caicedo etc) and that's going to be happening in the summer - if they're still scratching their heads in the summer then the new owners will rightly show them the door.
I do expect a Murtough to be able to have a team in place able to identify players the manager needs, it's been a year since he's been the decisions guy (he was credited with hiring Ragnick in November 21).
These players shouldn't be costing 80m+ either, who couldn't identify Casemiro, Fdj etc, we need to be buying these players before they become a hit (Fernandez, Alvarez, Caicedo etc) and that's going to be happening in the summer - if they're still scratching their heads in the summer then the new owners will rightly show them the door.
If they end up with Depay they are just incompetent idiots like Glazers.
They could move some players (Maquire or Lindelof, Fred or McT) in January and find that money for a striker, but no. It is better to sit with a d..k in your hand.
They could move some players (Maquire or Lindelof, Fred or McT) in January and find that money for a striker, but no. It is better to sit with a d..k in your hand.
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Sorry this is nonsense. I can give Murtough a pass with Timber because Van Gaal got in his ear that he wouldnt play him at the WC so we got Martinez instead. But we overpaid for him. ETH wanted de Jong - Murtough and Arnold flew out there and came back empty handed. We almost ended up with Adrien Rabiot until the Casemiro deal somehow happened. Eriksen was a free and a great deal. Antony he overpaid by about 50-60m.
Murtough had a madness in the Summer for sure just not a good one.