Are the players not good enough or not professional enough?

Ten Hag finished 3rd with a lot of the same players only 2 seasons ago (+ a very in form Rashford)
I don't understand how the lot of them have dropped off so badly
 
The number one issue currently is that we have players who don't want to compete for headers at set pieces. If we don't have de ligt and Maguire then we are basically at the mercy of the other team putting their routine into practice. Casemiro would help. Some are absolute liabilities. I would not be surprised if they are targeted. The ball would be played towards whoever is being marked by them.
 
Overrated talent wise, and not good enough mentality wise.

Doesn't help we overpay the majority of them too.
 
Skills said:
And other fans don't?

Why didn't Liverpool fans turn their club into a toxic shit hole for their players through the 90s, 2000s and 2010s like ours have for the last decade?
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Lack of social media then meant that those critical fans voices didn’t travel.

With social media, a fan option from a 12 year old 30k miles away from OT can carry as much weight than that of a fan who travels home and away.

I dont agree our fan base is toxic. And even if it is, is that an excuse for the 10 years of mediocrity?
 
There simply not good enough, we have some exciting players coming through like Diallo and Garnacho but there no where near good enough if you want to finish top four and inconsistent. I'm not sure if Hojlund will ever be good enough, seems to have little acceleration and takes an hour to shift the ball at his feet. With Ole we had a forward line of Sancho, Rashford, Greenwood, Cavani and which is miles ahead of where we are now in all honesty.

The only players that I see are good enough at the minute are Bruno and Mazraoui in all honesty where the likes of Diallo, Garancho, Hojlund should be playing in cup games or coming on in the 60th when a game is won.

Rest of the squad is just bang average. I can see Rashford going to Arsenal where he will probably bang in 20+ goals as a striker. Our squad is just crap and I think we are the worst at crossing the ball in the league and our our link up play is astrocious.
 
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The most worrying ones are the ones that don’t give a feck because it potentially rubs off elsewhere in the squad, especially on the younger players who we absolutely don’t want them to be around. They’re the ones we need out ASAP.

The players who aren’t good enough have the potential to still try if given the right encouragement by Amorim.

I’d also add a ‘sick note’ category in there with the likes of Shaw and Mount, and historically Martial, Schweinsteiger and Varane. We seem to ignore injury records for some players or players suddenly become injury prone when they come here, and the Glazer/Woodward approach of keeping their contract at a decent length ‘to preserve value’ was beyond stupid.
 
To me it just looks like most of our players lack drive, they coast looking for someone else to stand up and make the difference. The first change I would make is to change the captain, the captain needs to be the example for the others to follow, the captain needs to be tireless, positive and professional. He should be able to empower those around him. This definitely isn't Bruno who is too negative.
 
We are performing as a mid-table team because most of our players are of mid-table quality.
 
ABTEK said:
The current team was assembled in a relatively short period of time. The players who have been around longer unfortunately came through similar structural issues that their predecessors faced. There's been a terrible cycle going on for most of the post-SAF era - each season our team has been characterized by a lack of cohesion, identity, physicality, and perseverance in unfavorable situations.

It's easier to add two or three above-average players like Gakpo to an already well-oiled machine like Liverpool than to add a prime Ronaldo to a dysfunctional team like ours.

The problem requires a long-term fix: building the team with the right profile of players while creating cohesion and identity. I trust the current coaching staff is capable of achieving that based on early signs.
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This is true, but, also, Wilcox and Vivell know how to build inside that “cohesive framework” you need.

United need to revamp the salary structure and come to terms with what they are building and how long it will take. From the moment our new owners took over Chelsea they started drilling “project 2030” into everyone associated with the club. That doesn’t mean we are vastly ahead of schedule. You can win earlier. It means that have a step by step 7 year plan not only to have one of the top teams in the world, but to elevate the identity and brand of the club so that it is one of the top overall clubs in the world.

They have everything planned, down to the timeline for the marketing team for ticket tales to the new stadium engaging.

Does Ineos have a plan for even.. say… Bruno? Say it takes 2 or 3 windows to clear out some players and be at a level to compete for top 4. Let’s say it takes a few tweaks from that point and another season or two to compete for a title while also playing CL football. Just as you kick into gear Bruno will be hitting 33, 34 years old.

It seems weird to build something “new” around a primary player and captain that won’t be around when it’s ready to really compete. Add to that the fact he’s one of the people that throws your whole pay structure out of whack.

Thats one of the reasons we were only targeting people in a certain age range.

They should have a coordinated plan for all of this. That plan, if possible, should convince the Glazers that enough spending outside of PSR for facilities, stadium, etc is required that it might be in their best interests to step aside so the core of what Man United is can shine through (at a sizeable profit to them, of course).
 
SouthernRedDev said:
To me it just looks like most of our players lack drive, they coast looking for someone else to stand up and make the difference. The first change I would make is to change the captain, the captain needs to be the example for the others to follow, the captain needs to be tireless, positive and professional. He should be able to empower those around him. This definitely isn't Bruno who is too negative.
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This is it, literally! Start with a captain. Current not many in this side are capt material, perhaps De-ligt at a push. Too many passive mental midgets in this side. Expect some more drubbings this season.
 
The ones that are good enough aren't professional enough.

The ones that are professional enough aren't good enough.
 
Not good enough and overrated.

A lot of the time we don't like to admit to ourselves that players we like are perhaps, maybe, possibly, not as good as we think they are.

There's a lot of them in our squad and if you were to name them on this forum, you'd get piled on!
 
Skills said:
The whole thing around attributing everything to players professionalism is specific to the Man Utd fanbase. Manchester United's fanbase hate footballers - it's a weird thing, but the collective fanbase just doesn't like footballers.

I don't believe other clubs have more or less professional players than us, but as a club we fester a terrible environment around them. We've seldom made any effort whatsoever in the last 10 years since Fergies' retired to protect our players - we've thrown them to the wolves at any given opportunity.
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I think it's a symptom of the cult worship many fans have of the managers position. Many find it hard to criticise the manager (understandably given fergie was an ever present for a generation) and they've invested a lot into believing the current boss (who ever that's been at the time ) is the one to lead us back to the promised land. And so if it's not his fault that we're struggling then it must be those pesky, lazy, unprofessional trouble making players.

You only have to look back to the Moyes era for evidence of this phenomena, one of the most professional squads in world football with vast experience and a deep rooted winning culture were blamed by many for Moyes failings. And accused of all the same things virtually every squad since has been accused of since then when a manager starts struggling.
 
SouthernRedDev said:
To me it just looks like most of our players lack drive, they coast looking for someone else to stand up and make the difference. The first change I would make is to change the captain, the captain needs to be the example for the others to follow, the captain needs to be tireless, positive and professional. He should be able to empower those around him. This definitely isn't Bruno who is too negative.
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Agree re drive, though Bruno has at least that fire in him which few of our players do.

For me it’s incredibly simple, I think us fans lose sight of the reality of professional football and assume all these guys are hardwired to be perfect when the reality is all it takes is one bad egg in a changing room and suddenly others start to mess around, try 1% less than before and it will snowball. United really let things snowball and now the clean up will take time.
 
We’re desperate for some leaders amongst men in the team. I can’t think of one at the moment. All our great sides were full of them. They don’t even need to be the most talented players. Just lead by example, demand the highest of standards of effort and drive and inspire our talented younger players. We need to find a core of these making one of them the captain. Bruno is not captain material of this great club.
 
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