We're in a better position to sign, but in a worse position to be joined by them.
Are Man Utd actually in a better position to sign players than other top teams?
- Thread starter The Boy
- Start date
If we were in CL then we would be in for every top player (according to some media outlets), but as we only qualified for EL, then I believe that players who do sign for us have joined because they want to be part of the resurgence of this great club, can see two/three years down the line to where we might be, and want to be a Manchester United player. The fact that they may also be on a good salary would also help.
Yes, i think also that one year without CL doesn't change anything. But you said that career is 15 years long. So every player wants two things from his career. Money and success. Lets be objective here and lets put emotions aside. If you are top player in your best age; would you rather go in club in which you have huge chance to win titles( Juve, Psg, Real, Barca, Bayern) or in Man Utd where your chances are not so good?
Bye then!
If you're going to make this point you've missed a bit.
The problem of Manchester united is, they don't have a team.
Every 'big club' has a team. A group of similar players with complementary abilities that play towards a common style or tactics with a widely recognizable pattern. These players are usually assembled bit by bit by a tactically astute coach with a known effective style, as he gets those players that will fit in seamlessly. This is what Manchester united has been lacking since SAF days.
When I look at man utd, I see a group of individuals with no identifiable similar trait.
Some fast players, few technical, some hardworking, some mentally strong, some lazy, some slow. There's just no single trait you can point to and say 'this is what man utd players are known for'. Much like a bunch of mercenaries being picked for each position.
Don't get me wrong, you have better than average players for each position, but since you lack a clear style, they will be largely ineffective, but might do better in other teams. Blind, di maria, zaha, depay are good examples. And I have no doubt that lukaku, pogba, martial, in fact pretty much all your players will do better in some other teams that fit their styles.
Getting back to the top is not about buying young and homegrown talents. That's how you turn into arsenal. Man city didn't do that. Neither did Liverpool whilst getting mane, firmino, salah, wijnaldum, vandyke etc.
You should also stop harping about going back to the SAF days and playing the SAF way. Only SAF can pull that off and unless you can convince him to come out of retirement, you need to move on.
First you will need to get a top manager, with a clearly identifiable effective style that suits the club (that was were you got it wrong with mourinho, he is a very top effective manager, but his style just didn't suit the club). Only then can you begin to buy players that solely fit into his game mentality. Every big club has this. Man city's pep clearly loves technical and hardworking players, this style has been maintained by his previous clubs, Barcelona and Bayern because it was successful. Klopp loves hardworking and fast players, seen in Liverpool and maintained by Dortmund. Pochettino is another good manager and you can see how Tottenham has completely evolved under him.
I'm not saying Ole is not a good manager, but he is not a top manager, no obvious style as well. He was appointed mainly because he was a club legend and to appease the fans. And the fact he keeps going on about the SAF days does not help his cause. At most it is a gamble, it might work out, but then most often than not in this type of situations, it doesn't. Cue dalglish, inzaghi, seedorf, Tim Sherwood etc.
Whether you want to take the chance on Ole and risk wasting one or two years with him, or go outrightly to get in a top manager is a call you have to make, but until then, it might not matter what players you get or how much is thrown into the club.
Every 'big club' has a team. A group of similar players with complementary abilities that play towards a common style or tactics with a widely recognizable pattern. These players are usually assembled bit by bit by a tactically astute coach with a known effective style, as he gets those players that will fit in seamlessly. This is what Manchester united has been lacking since SAF days.
When I look at man utd, I see a group of individuals with no identifiable similar trait.
Some fast players, few technical, some hardworking, some mentally strong, some lazy, some slow. There's just no single trait you can point to and say 'this is what man utd players are known for'. Much like a bunch of mercenaries being picked for each position.
Don't get me wrong, you have better than average players for each position, but since you lack a clear style, they will be largely ineffective, but might do better in other teams. Blind, di maria, zaha, depay are good examples. And I have no doubt that lukaku, pogba, martial, in fact pretty much all your players will do better in some other teams that fit their styles.
Getting back to the top is not about buying young and homegrown talents. That's how you turn into arsenal. Man city didn't do that. Neither did Liverpool whilst getting mane, firmino, salah, wijnaldum, vandyke etc.
You should also stop harping about going back to the SAF days and playing the SAF way. Only SAF can pull that off and unless you can convince him to come out of retirement, you need to move on.
First you will need to get a top manager, with a clearly identifiable effective style that suits the club (that was were you got it wrong with mourinho, he is a very top effective manager, but his style just didn't suit the club). Only then can you begin to buy players that solely fit into his game mentality. Every big club has this. Man city's pep clearly loves technical and hardworking players, this style has been maintained by his previous clubs, Barcelona and Bayern because it was successful. Klopp loves hardworking and fast players, seen in Liverpool and maintained by Dortmund. Pochettino is another good manager and you can see how Tottenham has completely evolved under him.
I'm not saying Ole is not a good manager, but he is not a top manager, no obvious style as well. He was appointed mainly because he was a club legend and to appease the fans. And the fact he keeps going on about the SAF days does not help his cause. At most it is a gamble, it might work out, but then most often than not in this type of situations, it doesn't. Cue dalglish, inzaghi, seedorf, Tim Sherwood etc.
Whether you want to take the chance on Ole and risk wasting one or two years with him, or go outrightly to get in a top manager is a call you have to make, but until then, it might not matter what players you get or how much is thrown into the club.
Last edited by a moderator:
None of that matters if the club is run poorly. And it has and still is being run poorly. The only reason to come here right now is money. Theres no signs that we are on the upward swing yet. We've got pogba, awesome. A guy who only turns up when he feels like it. And that is showing more and more. Who is gonna want to come in and play with that? Martial, a horrible attitude that only moves when he has the ball. Rashford, under the horrible influence of a massive prick and its showing in every performance, lukaku the first touch of a wrecking ball and a terrible doctor who villain.
Players like sancho will be wanting to go to a club that will make them better. Thats not us. We cant even get lukaku to play for 25 minutes without looking like hes a four pack a day man. So if the coaching isnt there, the squad mentality isnt there, the upper management isnt there, whats left? Just money. Because we do not look like we are going to be challenging let alone winning anything as it stands. Top big name players that everyone keeps throwing around would be mad to come here under the current ownership, and squad. Up and comers would be mad to come here because its not looking like a great place to make their name. McT has been brilliant for the most part, and still get pushed aside on the back of outstanding performances for the "names".
Personally, I couldnt give two shits about big names comes here. They are more trouble than they are worth, IMO. Just give me 11 good guys that try their best and Ill be happy.
The problem with cash being United's strongest asset at the moment is it is who it's going to attract.
Cash rich and strategy poor is only going to perpetuate the wheel of drift at Old trafford, with a continued influx of players motivated by cash - that's why Alexis choose United over city & why Icardi may choose United over Spurs / Liverpool etc.
Cash rich and strategy poor is only going to perpetuate the wheel of drift at Old trafford, with a continued influx of players motivated by cash - that's why Alexis choose United over city & why Icardi may choose United over Spurs / Liverpool etc.
Last edited by a moderator:
Not actually, our position at the moment is terrible. First of all, all other teams know we are in big problems, with loads of money to solve. They know we need a lot of players, not one or two to fix something. Also, we don't have a person in charge that they respect and don't want to mess about by using it to get better offers from other clubs or increase the price.
In ideal scenario, if we need one or two players to just strengthen one or two positions, they wouldn't be in situation like this. Also, if Sir Alex calls you and tell you he wants your player, but don't want you to brag about, than you will shut up as you don't want to mess with him and you respect him. If Ed calls you, as a laughing stock, you will immediately go to press, talk about 10 other clubs calling you every day, increasing the price and waiting for final days of transfer window, while making fun of him (and our club).
So, to put us in good position, we need: A) to improve team by adding a player or two, with a few youngsters every year. B) have someone in charge who have respect of other people in the industry
In ideal scenario, if we need one or two players to just strengthen one or two positions, they wouldn't be in situation like this. Also, if Sir Alex calls you and tell you he wants your player, but don't want you to brag about, than you will shut up as you don't want to mess with him and you respect him. If Ed calls you, as a laughing stock, you will immediately go to press, talk about 10 other clubs calling you every day, increasing the price and waiting for final days of transfer window, while making fun of him (and our club).
So, to put us in good position, we need: A) to improve team by adding a player or two, with a few youngsters every year. B) have someone in charge who have respect of other people in the industry
I think more than lack of CL its the way the club has been run for last 6 years that pulls down our claim as a top destination. I would be very surprised if De Ligt or Jovic join us and again CL is one factor but any sane person can see this club is a mess right now. This is why we need to take step by step and clean the image again. We have become everything we were not say 10 years ago.
I think it says a lot about how shite Young is when a Brighton fan says he wouldn't want Young.
No.
All we have is loads of money and some history. We can only wish that the sought-after players in the world are lured by either one of them.
All we have is loads of money and some history. We can only wish that the sought-after players in the world are lured by either one of them.
I think the first signing announced this summer is the key. If it’s a ‘statement of intent’ signing that has people sit up and take notice then that may encourage other quality players to get on board the project.
If it’s ‘Jonny Punt’ a 15 year old from division 3 of the Antarctic League then we don’t send out the right message.
If the club has any brains it would leave off announcing any lesser done deals until a bit later.
If........
If it’s ‘Jonny Punt’ a 15 year old from division 3 of the Antarctic League then we don’t send out the right message.
If the club has any brains it would leave off announcing any lesser done deals until a bit later.
If........
Agreed, the last time we failed to qualify for the CL was the season Leicester won the league. We finished level on points with City and finished ahead of Chelsea and Liverpool. In general the season was weird with no team really impressing (outside of Leicester's mighty underdogs). Add the fact we had brought in Mourinho and it didn't feel like the gap back to the top was that big. All that considered it wasn't the hardest sell to get Pogba, Zlatan and Mhiki to leave a CL team for one season in the EL.
This time will be harder. Solskjaer is not a bankable name and the season petering out post-Paris will not go unnoticed, we are way behind City and Liverpool and if Arsenal win the EL there will be 5 established teams who can offer CL football ahead of us.
All that said I hope it spurs us on to look for the rough diamonds and get back playing attacking football.
First, if you were a top player, would you be thrilled at the prospect of playing with Lingard, Young, Jones and Sanchez? If the club shows it is willing to take a loss and get rid of these players, it would at least send the right signal that football is a priority. At this time, the priority seems to be JLingz Instagram and Phil Jones hairdo.
Second, Ole has allowed Rashy to play horribly for about 2 months without a consequence. We need a manager who will wield a hairdryer and who will not accept dross.
And Third, we may have the money, but how much will be spent and where? So far, the only signing that seems to be happening comes from the Championship and is totally unproven. This seems like a bargsin bin strategy, not one of a club that wants to compete with Barcelona, Madrid, Liverpool, Chelsea or even Arsenal.
Second, Ole has allowed Rashy to play horribly for about 2 months without a consequence. We need a manager who will wield a hairdryer and who will not accept dross.
And Third, we may have the money, but how much will be spent and where? So far, the only signing that seems to be happening comes from the Championship and is totally unproven. This seems like a bargsin bin strategy, not one of a club that wants to compete with Barcelona, Madrid, Liverpool, Chelsea or even Arsenal.