Are English players overrated or is it Southgate ?

romufc said:
Don't tell me I am only looking at 1 season, when Sancho, Sterling, Rashford have all been putting up numbers for 3 seasons.
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Wait are you now trying to say Rashford is better than Gnabry and Sane?

You claimed Sancho was better than both so why are you bringing in Sterling's stats? WOW! :lol:

Do research? What nonsense are you going on about here? If someone takes 3 penalties in a season and the other 0, it gives them more chances to up their goal account. It's not rocket science or hard to grasp. So what are you slabbering about 3 years?
 
Mark_Barca said:
Wait are you now trying to say Rashford is better than Gnabry and Sane?

You claimed Sancho was better than both so why are you bringing in Sterling's stats? WOW! :lol:

Do research? What nonsense are you going on about here? If someone takes 3 penalties in a season and the other 0, it gives them more chances to up their goal account. It's not rocket science or hard to grasp. So what are you slabbering about 3 years?
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Go and look at my posts, I said the English options are better than the German ones. That includes Rashford, Sterling, Foden, Grealish, Sancho.

The reason I brought Sterling is because you said Sane has done it in the PL and Sancho hasn't, so I compared an English player who has done it in the same team as Sane.

Oh because you chose Gnabry's one and only season he done well he is better, tell me I am using 1 season but when I give you players that have been consistent for 3 I am slabbering? :lol: :lol:

Also, you mention I missed key factors, what are they? that if you play for Bayern its a higher level than any other team?
 
krentz said:
Nonsense as shown by Mourinho, LvG. These 2 spent big money only to ended up in worse condition where their replacements needed another big money to fix things.
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Mourinho finished 2nd and won Europa, which Ole failed to win. LVG won FA cup which again Ole failed to win. We will need something big to splash if Ole is sacked next year. We do not have a proven goal scorer, we would need Pogba's replacement and might as well need a new goalkeeper.
 
Let's see what happens. If England reach semis like they did previous tournament, there will be absolutely no basis for calling anyone overrated... even Southgate.
 
England playing at home with fans vs. a stuttering Germany is a nice opportunity to test and dispel some myths.
 
They have very good attackers and a solid defense but what is going to let down England is Rice and Phillips in holding positions. There not exactly World Class players and when they come in against a good midfield they are going to get absolutely dominated.

I'm not a fan of this 4-2-3-1 formation whatsoever and if Southgate sticks with Rice and Phillips and this formation I can't see us beating the Germans. We all know how lackluster it is from watching United play.
 
One thing is clear from this bashing of Southgate and england players that whoever got the opportunity to play especially attacking midfield and midfield were underrated and whoever didn't get opportunity were overrated. :lol:
 
honirelandboy said:
They have very good attackers and a solid defense but what is going to let down England is Rice and Phillips in holding positions. There not exactly World Class players and when they come in against a good midfield they are going to get absolutely dominated.

I'm not a fan of this 4-2-3-1 formation whatsoever and if Southgate sticks with Rice and Phillips and this formation I can't see us beating the Germans. We all know how lackluster it is from watching United play.
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This is my major concern. Rice and Phillips in against the intelligence and ability of players like Gundogan, Kroos etc has to be a massive worry.

It's all very well comparing forwards or pointing at the suspect areas of the defence and it's true, Hummels, Stones etc could be weak areas, but if we don't a grip of the game it's our forwards that will be starved and our backline doing the defending.

Then what does it matter how many goals and assists our forwards got last year - it will be a moot point.
 
Jibbs said:
Mourinho finished 2nd and won Europa, which Ole failed to win. LVG won FA cup which again Ole failed to win. We will need something big to splash if Ole is sacked next year. We do not have a proven goal scorer, we would need Pogba's replacement and might as well need a new goalkeeper.
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And that isnt going to be Ole's fault unlike LvG or Mourinho.
 
Obviously for the sake of our English players - the likes of Rashy, Maguire, Greenwood I hope they do well - however like all Utd fans I wouldn’t mind seeing England fall.
 
wattsy7 said:
Don’t get me wrong we have a good talent pool of attacking options but no team with central midfield options of Rice, Phillips, Henderson and a 17 year old Bellingham is winning a tournament.

This lack of quality midfield options stops us playing fast, attacking football which everybody wants to see, every great attacking team throughout history has had a brilliant midfield to begin and sustain attacks, attacking players can only do so much without that, no matter how talented they are, Messi & his fellow Argentine forwards over the last 10/15 years will tell you the same thing.

Southgate is getting stick for playing 2 ‘defensive’ midfielders but if you take one out and put Foden/Grealish/Mount in there a top team would go through us, therefore this pragmatic approach we are currently seeing is the only way we go deep into this tournament. Southgate has it absolutely spot on.

Do not compare the 2006 world cup players with this bunch, it’s not even remotely close.
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Was with you up until the bolded, lest you forget these are the players Southgate opted to bring from a pool of the entire nation. He made this rod for his back because he wanted to, so there is no plaudits in then executing a plan he clearly had in mind from the outset.
 
Does anyone feel that we should have taken James Ward Prowse to the Euros?

It gives us an extra midfielder that can help us be creative once in a while.
 
In response to the OP, the latter. Southgate is a dreadful manager who's CV wouldn't earn him a championship job but England standards are in the toilet so the FA are more than happy with the bare minimum since he doesn't ever rock the boat and is media friendly. They both, FA and press, fawn over the slightest/most basic things that he does in return.

A manager like Wenger or a brave tactician would be able to win major trophies with the assortment of talent England currently have instead of slogging along playing uninspired football despite a squad full of strong technical and creative players.

Absolutely cannot see this current crop winning anything with him at the helm
 
Rolaholic said:
In response to the OP, the latter. Southgate is a dreadful manager but England standards are in the toilet so the FA are more than happy with the bare minimum since he doesn't ever rock the boat.

A manager like Wenger or a creative tactician would be able to win major trophies with the assortment of talent England currently have instead of slogging along playing uninspired football despite a squad of strong technical players.

Absolutely cannot see this current crop winning anything with him at the helm
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I agree.

I personally think Italy on paper has looked much weaker than their previous years but are playing stronger due to Mancini’s tactical ability.

Wenger would be a lovely choice to get the best out of so many young players.
 
Bebestation said:
I agree.

I personally think Italy on paper has looked much weaker than their previous years but are playing stronger due to Mancini’s tactical ability.

Wenger would be a lovely choice to get the best out of so many young players.
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100%, Italy don't have anything near a 'golden generation' yet haven't lost a match in 3 years while playing beautiful football because of Mancini.

I get the sick feeling that keeping Southgate long term will have this generation end up like Belgium, having a top 5 talented squad in the world perennially only to piss it all away with terrible managers like Wilmots and Martinez.

I've always loved the idea of AW running the 3 Lions given his pedigree in the English game and what he'd be able to do with all that young attacking talent.
 
Rolaholic said:
100%, Italy don't have anything near a 'golden generation' yet haven't lost a match in 3 years while playing beautiful football because of Mancini.

I get the sick feeling that keeping Southgate long term will have this generation end up like Belgium, having a top 5 talented squad in the world perennially only to piss it all away with terrible managers like Wilmots and Martinez.

I've always loved the idea of AW running the 3 Lions given his pedigree in the English game and what he'd be able to do with all that young attacking talent.
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Yeah I’ve always wondered about Belgium too.

If it wasn’t Wenger is there anyone else you think as good potential managers for the NT?
 
Bebestation said:
Yeah I’ve always wondered about Belgium too.

If it wasn’t Wenger is there anyone else you think as good potential managers for the NT?
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If not Wenger, someone I'd like to to see get a shot and would probably be more realistic with the FA, would be Graham Potter.

Feel like he'd be a much better fit with this squad than Southgate and actually has a coherent attacking philosophy that follows many of the same patters that Pep does.

He'd have them playing some good expansive/progressive stuff I'm sure of it and make much better use of all that forward and midfield talent.
 
Can't wait for this thread to be bumped when England gets inevitably knocked out by Germany. That poster who keeps claiming England has better players than Germany is so deluded that I can't be bothered to argue with him anymore
 
There's definitely a tendency for the English press and media to overrate an English player. This is probably something that happens the world over though - the national press over hype a player of the same nationality. I couldn't say for sure only ever having lived in the UK.
England winning this tournament- or any - is the last thing I want to see. Looking at the England squad, I think it could realistically win the Euros. Maybe not quite the best team, but if they played to their best, had a touch of luck, and had a manager with nous, who would set the team up correctly... thank God for Southgate.
 
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