Are Bruno and Rashford a problem?

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Kinsella said:
Open question here - would you sell Rashford in the summer and buy Evan Ferguson?
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Yes and no.

If we can move Rashford on at a reasonable fee and get his wages off the book I absolutely would sell him. He's never going to be the player we need him to be consistently. Second question, would I buy Evan Ferguson? No, we've bought Hojlund for that role and we need to commit to his development. Assuming that Sancho can't be fixed, then from next season we should be looking for Garnacho as first choice from the left.
 
No I don't think so. We're being crap atm as a team and that affect the performance of all our players including both. Especially Rashford he has been very tightly marked and doubled/tripled down on every matches. There's basically no space for him and he needs space. As every attackers imo. That and the pressure to score also affect his confidence imo.

Bruno has been shifting all around to find a slot for Eriksen. Otherwise Bruno will have to play very deep to progress the ball as Casemiro turning crap/injured and both Shaw and Martinez injured. We basically have no ball playing and ball carrier available atm. Mount was supposed to be one but unfortunately he's been pretty crap at that as well.

The true problem here imo is our injuries and Casemiro turning crap/injured. Which makes it impossible for our system to work. We need Shaw and Martinez back asap. And Casemiro to find his form back. Last season imo one thing we could notice is Rashford usually could find quite a lot of space and that's because we could force the opponent to give him that by creating situational numerical advantage.

We've been trying to play as a system instead of relying on individual brilliance like previously. So when our system doesn't work properly we create feck all and basically all our players look like crap. Imo it's more a collective issue than individual ones. We'll look better as a team and the performance of Rashford and Bruno would also improve when we have our first choice players back I think.
 
foolsgold said:
Yes and no.

If we can move Rashford on at a reasonable fee and get his wages off the book I absolutely would sell him. He's never going to be the player we need him to be consistently. Second question, would I buy Evan Ferguson? No, we've bought Hojlund for that role and we need to commit to his development. Assuming that Sancho can't be fixed, then from next season we should be looking for Garnacho as first choice from the left.
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Agree on the first part but I'd say yes for the second. Yes we have Hojlund but that's it. Martial can't be relied on and should be moved on and we need at least two decent strikers. The only drawback is they're both kinda similar players and perhaps we'd prefer more variety in that position but in terms of profile and need , we could definitely do with Evan Ferguson.
 
Desert Eagle said:
Agree on the first part but I'd say yes for the second. Yes we have Hojlund but that's it. Martial can't be relied on and should be moved on and we need at least two decent strikers. The only drawback is they're both kinda similar players and perhaps we'd prefer more variety in that position but in terms of profile and need , we could definitely do with Evan Ferguson.
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it's the variety thing that stopped me saying yes. We absolutely need another striker, but Hojlund and Ferguson are too similar profiles. We need a different profile of striker to lead the line and give Hojlund space to grow. It's what Martial should be doing if he wasn't made of glass and devoid of pace. Wouldn't entirely surprise me if we decide to solve the problem with Greenwood next year if he does well enough in Spain.
 
Kinsella said:
Open question here - would you sell Rashford in the summer and buy Evan Ferguson?
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Evan Ferguson would be a martial upgrade, not rashford, Ferguson is a striker, not left winger

Kvaratskhelia from Napoli would be audacious and show the kind of ambition we need and is exactly who I would get if we sold rashford.
 
Kinsella said:
Open question here - would you sell Rashford in the summer and buy Evan Ferguson?
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If we had a competent board, 100% I would sell him. But I know they will waste the money on another Antony.
 
It’s embarrassing watching Rashford play after watching the intensity in play of Grealish and Foden - both offensively and in defense. We should have sold him in January or June.
 
giggslover said:
Me, I don't blame the players personally. First of all isn't Bruno playing out of position?

As far as Rashford, last year Rashford was eating up defenders when one on one. So the league adapted and what I almost always see now is 2 defenders on or in front of Rashford at all times.

In my estimation, it now becomes the managers job to find a way to bring another player in to the play to counteract or compensate for this.
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That's a good point, and he's certainly not been helped by our insanely poor luck at left back.

There's probably also an argument to be made that the one metric we've consistently improved upon - high turnovers - is actually hampering Rashford. If you're winning the ball high up the pitch, you're typically doing so with very little space behind the opposition backline. I definitely feel like we're proportionally seeing him receive the ball in front of the defence a lot more often than we were last season.

With nobody on the over/underlap to boot, he's regularly taking on 2/3 players solo, subsequently either losing possession or - when he does get by them - running out of gas/composure to pick the right shot or pass.

Obviously it would be nice to have a left back in the team, but for now we could be doing with the near side midfielder going wider to help him out a bit. That would hardly be an uncommon strategy either. Plenty of teams that have their fullbacks tucking in do it - Arsenal are a good example.
 
Yes, I think they are a problem. Bruno is mercurial and can come up with an amazing strike (like that recent volleyed goal) and an amazing pass - but half the time he plays like his boots are on the wrong feet. Rashford has reverted to having no ability to dribble past a player and his finishing has deserted him. Plus , he has been playing lazily, not putting in any lungbusting runs, slacking on tracking back. Rashford plays without any joy - it all looks like work, and work he’d rather not be doing. Bruno having a tantrum every fecking game is getting on my nerves too.
 
Building a team around them is a major problem in my opinion. Both are very flaky in terms of form and consistency, especially Rashford.

Both have been on ridiculous purple patches and both have been on ridiculous barren spells, with no inbetween a lot of the time.
 
It’s their power that’s the problem. If the manager rotated them, or even subbed them after 55-60 minutes etc and they were playing because their form warranted it then they would not be.
 
Before them it was De Gea and Fred, before him it was Ronaldo, before him it was Lingard and Pogba, and so on.

Every year we find new scapegoats, whose departure would allow for the team to really thrive.
Every year we realise they weren’t the sole problem.
 
Zed is not dead said:
Before them it was De Gea and Fred, before him it was Ronaldo, before him it was Lingard and Pogba, and so on.

Every year we find new scapegoats, whose departure would allow for the team to really thrive.
Every year we realise they weren’t the sole problem.
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I agree, although a good manager and Board would be able to better exploit what the squad already offers,

I don't have any doubt people like Guardiola or Klopp would make better use of players like Bruno, Rashford or Eriksen.
 
I would think if Rashord plays for Villa under Emery he will perform just as well if not better than Ollie Watkins.
 
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Rashford is 25 years of age. It could end up being an issue with him having so many years ahead if it proves that he cannot improve above his current station. Why? Because it would lock the LW position for any future signings, and indeed for Garnacho himself on that side.
 
The players we drop them for would perform worse. They get all the flakes because they are the ones who were carrying our attack when we weren't this bad, but aren't able to do so anymore. We've been here many times over the last 10 years.

Dropping the best players to replace them with inferior players would just be Ten Hag throwing in the towel. Would ensure there would be no way back for him. If there are any attackers in the squad capable of dragging him out of this mud, they are Bruno and Rashford. If we want to move on from them, it has to be slowly, not just to drop them.

Rangnick thought dropping players was the solution too, and found out. The whole team is currently a mess, no one is performing well. Garnacho and Mount aren't going to come in and perform better, they are inferior players. We'd just have to go back to Bruno and Rashford after a few games.

I'd say Ten Hag's shortcomings has been not subbing them off earlier when they weren't playing well. I'd continue to have them start games, let the subs actually prove they are capable of performing much better. I don't think they are, not in this team.
 
Bruno plays well approximately 30% of the time, the rest of the time he just loses possession with wasteful passes. Definitely not Captain material... WTF does Ten Hag keep playing him and Rashford every game for 90 minutes when they simply do not warrant it with their form? Drop them for a few games and see what reaction he gets. It will tell the true story of their commitment to the cause.
 
I am not sure how people can watch United regularly and see Bruno and Rashford constantly give the ball away 10-20 times a game from poor decision making, poor passing and just a lack of awareness and not see they affect the teams overall game. There’s a reason why the rest of the footballing world do not really rate them that highly, it’s not because they play for United and everyone hates United it’s because their stats never paint a true reflection of their overall performances.
 
KD6-3.7 said:
I am not sure how people can watch United regularly and see Bruno and Rashford constantly give the ball away 10-20 times a game from poor decision making, poor passing and just a lack of awareness and not see they affect the teams overall game. There’s a reason why the rest of the footballing world do not really rate them that highly, it’s not because they play for United and everyone hates United it’s because their stats never paint a true reflection of their overall performances.
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Did Rashford keep giving the ball away while he played under LVG? I wonder. Sure drop both of them then problem solved.
 
ThierryHenry14 said:
Did Rashford keep giving the ball away while he played under LVG? I wonder. Sure drop both of them then problem solved.
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Rashford wasn't the face of the club and made to feel like a superstar earning £300k a week under Van Gaal.

Also if anything you are proving Rashford has gone backwards with certain aspects of his game because his decision making is horrendous now and certainly not as bad as it was under Van Gaal.
 
They’re a massive problem but the bigger problem is ETH refusing to drop them which makes them feel like their form is irrelevant and they’re indispensable, what’s needed is for ETH to have the bollocks to drop them and the whole squad to see no one is undroppable and need to perform in order to play.
 
Our best performance this season despite the opposition came when they weren't on the pitch.
 
I would go so far to say that Rashford should only be used in certain games as an impact player,and he is not a player to build a possession based fotball team around.

Bruno should never have become Captain, because he obviously cant handle that pressure and also function as a player.
He is also a bad example with his constant whining and acting on the pitch.
Where was he against City when players like Lindeløf were ball watching and got overun time after time? I mean a decent captain would have ripped him a new one.

The fact that ETH keeps playing them every match will get him fired in the long run.
 
Rashford - yes... Bruno - no

Rashford just been so awful, and he looks like he has no interest sometimes on the pitch. Extremely worrying body language. A man whos just not bothered. Every game seems to be the same for him now, gets the ball, puts his head down and runs into a wall of players, or just blasts it off the nearest player. At any other big club, he'd would have been on the bench a long time ago.

With Bruno, I can see he's trying to create things, and his consistent stats this last few years show he'll come good. Hes playing out of position quite a bit too, always dropping really deep, or dragging out wide and staying there.. I wish he would be told to just stay put where hes at his best. What I dont like though, is his behaviour. like a spoilt child. Prob the opposite of how Rashford acts, he shows passion, but in the wrong way. Its more like Ronaldo'esq petulance, he has to do better now he's captain
 
Rashford has always been an issue, he just peaked last year and has now returned to his level.

Someone said this the other day (can't remember who or where) and I 100% - if LVG wasn't blighted by injuries and had to play him, he never would have made it out of the academy.
 
If the goal is to create a team that will be tight at the back with two destroyers screening the defence and will look to capitalize on transitional moments with Bruno's creativity and Rashford's ability to attack the open space, thus abandoning - for the most part - the notion of playing expansive football and fully embracing that we'll be a team that will be constantly fighting for top-four and get in the CL positions every 2/3 years, they are just fine. And since the Glazers care for nothing more than CL qualification and the PL will probably be getting an extra spot in the upcoming seasons... they are indeed fine. After all, the wheels came off for the last two managers when they attempted to be a tad more courageous with their plans. That's the mistake that needs to be fixed. Get the best out of the squad, secure CL football, otherwise bring in the next one.
 
Salford_Red83 said:
Rashford has always been an issue, he just peaked last year and has now returned to his level.

Someone said this the other day (can't remember who or where) and I 100% - if LVG wasn't blighted by injuries and had to play him, he never would have made it out of the academy.
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Which would've been a great shame - for Manchester United, England and the countless people who've been inspired by Rashford (on and off the pitch).
 
No worse than anyone else but they are highlighted more cos one is the captain and the other is on the highest wages at the club (if I’m not mistaken)
 
I look at Kane leaving Spurs as almost beneficial for both of them. I know there are many differences here, but I wonder if something similar could be the case, maybe particularly for Rashford.

Not sure who would pay for Rashford that he would deem worthy, it might need to be to another league - but I feel like a different environment for him could give him the push needed to try to step up his consistency. Similarly he has been such a fixture of the Man Utd team without great success that maybe trying something else would be good for the squad.
 
Gawge said:
I look at Kane leaving Spurs as almost beneficial for both of them. I know there are many differences here, but I wonder if something similar could be the case, maybe particularly for Rashford.

Not sure who would pay for Rashford that he would deem worthy, it might need to be to another league - but I feel like a different environment for him could give him the push needed to try to step up his consistency. Similarly he has been such a fixture of the Man Utd team without great success that maybe trying something else would be good for the squad.
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Only PSG, Real Madrid, City, Chelsea, Bayern and may be Newcastle can afford his salary. He is probably going no where until his contract expires. PSG may have an opening next summer if Mbappe leaves for Real Madrid.
 
Neither are remotely good enough for Man Utd but both are locked into ludicrous long-term contracts. To rebuild this squad it needs good examples; these two are anything but.
 
Sparky Rhiwabon said:
They might be but they are also our best two players
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They're doing more harm than good, and saying that they are the club's two best players is like arguing with bald guy has more hair on the back and side of his head. Rashford is an Everton-level player, at best. Nobody was in for Fernandes before he came to Man Utd, and nobody good will be on for him after, either. They are the two most overrated players in the squad.
 
TheRedDevil'sAdvocate said:
If the goal is to create a team that will be tight at the back with two destroyers screening the defence and will look to capitalize on transitional moments with Bruno's creativity and Rashford's ability to attack the open space, thus abandoning - for the most part - the notion of playing expansive football and fully embracing that we'll be a team that will be constantly fighting for top-four and get in the CL positions every 2/3 years, they are just fine. And since the Glazers care for nothing more than CL qualification and the PL will probably be getting an extra spot in the upcoming seasons... they are indeed fine. After all, the wheels came off for the last two managers when they attempted to be a tad more courageous with their plans. That's the mistake that needs to be fixed. Get the best out of the squad, secure CL football, otherwise bring in the next one.
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I agreed with you until you turned the conversation toward the Glazer's ambitions. Doing that ignores that the Glazers still fund the second-highest net transfer spend in the league.

If someone wanted to rewire our team around different players + strategy, there has been ample money and a willingness to do that. And I think EtH did want to do that, which is why he went so hard after FdJ, but it didn't work out because FdJ didn't want it and EtH didn't have a good backup plan. So he shored up our midfield with Casemiro and, as you say, looked to play to our strength - Bruno & Rashford on the counter.

This summer, encouraged by last season's results, he doubled down on making us the best transition team: Rashford's new contract, Fernandes made captain, adding Hojlund for more pace, Amrabat (to back up Casemiro), Mount (to back up Eriksen, strangely). But it's not working so far. We're a one-dimensional threat that hasn't added a ball-player capable of breaking down a low block - which gets much more exposed when our best ball-players are injured or can't play full games (Martinez, Shaw, Eriksen).

This could have gone differently. EtH could have decided last season's results were a lucky fluke: Rashford was unlikely to repeat his form and Fernandes is limited in possession. But I think it's extremely hard to blame him for that. If you were a manager who reached two cup finals and a decent league result in your first season, would you completely change the strategy that got you there? I don't think so. So he tried to make some limited upgrades on the same strategy, but it's backfired.

Maybe some injury recoveries and a little luck will save our season and EtH's job. If that happens, I think he will have learned a lesson here. I expect his transfer policy next summer will be to move us sharply away from reliance on Rashford + Bruno, and toward stronger possession players.
 
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