Are Bruno and Rashford a problem?

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It's been a tough season, but the development of Hojlund/Garnacho/Mainoo has made it almost barrable, which is a stark contrast to the other trio of Casemiro/Bruno/Rashford who have all suffered with bad form.

But instead of seeing them as a 'problem' I just see it as a natural cycle of the team. Casemiro will be replaced 1st possible in the summer. The overreliance on Bruno should be reduced next season and Rashford should be allowed to find his form again.
 
Prodigal7 said:
Bruno is creative but my issue with him is that he’s about single passes and can’t seem to link with other players in tight areas very well. When teams make themselves compact against us (which they nearly always do) his only response is to force a long ball. Having a Bernardo Silva of our own would make us much better and get much more out of Mainoo imo.
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Exactly this! I guess that's why ten Hag was so keen to sign de Jong, and still is now. However, it begs the question as to why he went for Mount, who shares no similarities to players like Silva and De Jong.
 
Walters_19_MuFc said:
Exactly this! I guess that's why ten Hag was so keen to sign de Jong, and still is now. However, it begs the question as to why he went for Mount, who shares no similarities to players like Silva and De Jong.
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For the double 8s experiment (that failed) plus squad depth
 
miliebrowndivorceattorney said:
Bruno effort and playing even with injuries isn't the problem. But in a 3 man midfield he is absent. He does not track back. He doesn't win many 1:1's and he doesn't score many goals from the classic 10 position despite being there a lot of times. He creates chances but so does Mainoo these days, Garnacho Rashford Dalot and even Onana. The way he just looks as his direct opponents skipped by and started the move that led to LFC 1st goal last sunday was just the drop for me. If the team focus starts to drop, a captain should rally the troops and I rarely see him do that. Onana, Antony even Dalot talk a lot more to other players.

We don't have to sell him but are we expected to park him on the bench? He just made to be captain. You cannot bench a captain.

Evenso, if ETH doesn't see the need to replace him, so be it. For me at his position we need somebody more complete. More scoring too. And is it not better for every squad to have competition on every position? Is Mount going to do that? Ten Hag public talk can sometimes be a bit puzzling, see also with Ronaldo. Ideally I'd love to keep Bruno but he either needs healthy competition for his place, or sold.
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This post is nonsense. Bruno always tracks back, probably too much. He must be our best assister by a mile and he encourages the team and rallies thebtrooos, if not by effort then by words, just like he ran to rashford to keep his head up Sunday. You sound blinded by dislike
 
Oscar Bonavena said:
The question every United fan should be asking when it comes to Bruno and Marcus is this:

Forget sentiment, forget emotion, forget the odd good performances or good stretches of seasons here and there.

Do you think United will ever re-emerge as title and Champions League contenders with these two as our main men?

For me, no. They're not consistent enough, not mentally strong enough and, let's face it, not good enough.

Good players, don't get me wrong. But we either want to get back to the very top or we don't. We're just f**king around wasting time waiting for these two to bring us to the promised land. Better off selling both in the summer and starting off with a clean slate.
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Why would they need to be our main men?
 
Nicolarra90 said:
Why would they need to be our main men?
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That's a good question. It's obvious they're Erik's "main men". Bruno is undroppable and unsubbable and Marcus is pretty damn close to that status too.

I can't see that changing while Erik is manager, so the challenge for Bruno and Marcus will be if/when deficiencies in other areas of the team (defence, midfield) are "fixed", will Bruno and Marcus have that world class quality to transform a decent team into title contenders/winners?

They won't be able to fall back on the excuse of "what can they do, they're playing in a poor team" any more!
 
Arsenal lost Aubameyang, Lacazette and Ozil and got better, City lost Aguero and Sterling and improved, Liverpool sold Coutinho and went to another level, Chelsea sold Hazard then won the CL. Then you have Kane leaving Spurs and they are doing very well.

The bondage that United fans have with managers is also present with players. In Mata’s last year there were still fans who wanted him to stay on.

The team has been built to Bruno and Rashford’s strengths for the last five years and simply put they haven’t gotten it done as a team or individually for a good chunk of that period. The whole point of selling them is to look for another approach because the one with them clearly isn’t good enough. It’s not all on them obviously but they’ve been given the keys so it’s only right that people look at them.

The idea about getting better players and including them in the setup doesn’t work for me. Bruno occupies a position that is of too much importance, as long as he plays he will be central to what we do. It’s the same with Rashford, he’s too one dimensional and only contributes offensively.
 
RuudTom83 said:
It's been a tough season, but the development of Hojlund/Garnacho/Mainoo has made it almost barrable, which is a stark contrast to the other trio of Casemiro/Bruno/Rashford who have all suffered with bad form.

But instead of seeing them as a 'problem' I just see it as a natural cycle of the team. Casemiro will be replaced 1st possible in the summer. The overreliance on Bruno should be reduced next season and Rashford should be allowed to find his form again.
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Dalot deserves some flowers too.
 
Oscar Bonavena said:
That's a good question. It's obvious they're Erik's "main men". Bruno is undroppable and unsubbable and Marcus is pretty damn close to that status too.

I can't see that changing while Erik is manager, so the challenge for Bruno and Marcus will be if/when deficiencies in other areas of the team (defence, midfield) are "fixed", will Bruno and Marcus have that world class quality to transform a decent team into title contenders/winners?

They won't be able to fall back on the excuse of "what can they do, they're playing in a poor team" any more!
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Maybe last season. But this season our main men are clearly Hojlund, Garnacho and Mainoo (even if that wasn't the plan in August).

And those 3 are the ones we are using as the base for our next years to come (in terms of football, marketing and social media).

If Rashford can still turn up for every derby it's good for me. And Bruno... Let's see if Mount competition can fix him, otherwise just sell.
 
El Jefe said:
Arsenal lost Aubameyang, Lacazette and Ozil and got better, City lost Aguero and Sterling and improved, Liverpool sold Coutinho and went to another level, Chelsea sold Hazard then won the CL. Then you have Kane leaving Spurs and they are doing very well.

The bondage that United fans have with managers is also present with players. In Mata’s last year there were still fans who wanted him to stay on.

The team has been built to Bruno and Rashford’s strengths for the last five years and simply put they haven’t gotten it done as a team or individually for a good chunk of that period. The whole point of selling them is to look for another approach because the one with them clearly isn’t good enough. It’s not all on them obviously but they’ve been given the keys so it’s only right that people look at them.

The idea about getting better players and including them in the setup doesn’t work for me. Bruno occupies a position that is of too much importance, as long as he plays he will be central to what we do. It’s the same with Rashford, he’s too one dimensional and only contributes offensively.
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Rashford could be good enough if he gave consistent effort. Bruno for all his effort will never be it. Some united fans need a star player to latch on to and hopefully between Rasmus, Garnacho and Kobbie can fill that role.
 
Nobody can deny that they are good international level players who have performed at the highest levels. The issues arise when they are off form as their levels can fall dramatically. As they are key players this impacts the team more and when the team is still finding structure and fluidity it’s even worse.

I’m hoping that both can build on the momentum from the other night where both contributed to the cause in different ways. With the Euros on the horizon I’m hoping both are managed well as them starting next season better is crucial for us.
 
Rashford playing at his best is top tier, really could be up there, imagine him in a Real Madrid side where his only role is to attack, problem is if Rashford is not used in a side which supports his needs his effectivity drops off a cliff, I like Rashford, always have, he is a archetypal Utd winger, problem is football has moved on, he is good enough to at least set the team up to allow him to play to his strengths

Bruno is the most frustrating player, I am not a fan of stats, but his stats are up there both good and bad, you cannot fault his effort, desire and commitment, but man o man he can be so wasteful, and that is the bind, you see what he could be as a number 10 with a little more composure, I do not think he will ever get past this, maybe if we get a real good midfield set up and have more control in matches then maybe he is more in control too, can but hope, cannot help but think ETH wanted Mount to force Bruno out for this very reason
 
Zed 101 said:
Rashford playing at his best is top tier, really could be up there, imagine him in a Real Madrid side where his only role is to attack, problem is if Rashford is not used in a side which supports his needs his effectivity drops off a cliff, I like Rashford, always have, he is a archetypal Utd winger, problem is football has moved on, he is good enough to at least set the team up to allow him to play to his strengths

Bruno is the most frustrating player, I am not a fan of stats, but his stats are up there both good and bad, you cannot fault his effort, desire and commitment, but man o man he can be so wasteful, and that is the bind, you see what he could be as a number 10 with a little more composure, I do not think he will ever get past this, maybe if we get a real good midfield set up and have more control in matches then maybe he is more in control too, can but hope, cannot help but think ETH wanted Mount to force Bruno out for this very reason
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Yeah I think you're right there. If Mount brings his numbers and form from Chelsea here then Bruno doesn't start. At least not as a 10.
 
Zed 101 said:
Rashford playing at his best is top tier, really could be up there, imagine him in a Real Madrid side where his only role is to attack, problem is if Rashford is not used in a side which supports his needs his effectivity drops off a cliff, I like Rashford, always have, he is a archetypal Utd winger, problem is football has moved on, he is good enough to at least set the team up to allow him to play to his strengths

Bruno is the most frustrating player, I am not a fan of stats, but his stats are up there both good and bad, you cannot fault his effort, desire and commitment, but man o man he can be so wasteful, and that is the bind, you see what he could be as a number 10 with a little more composure, I do not think he will ever get past this, maybe if we get a real good midfield set up and have more control in matches then maybe he is more in control too, can but hope, cannot help but think ETH wanted Mount to force Bruno out for this very reason
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I would fully agree that at his best Rashford can provide the type of play that top class. And I also think in a function team he would be showing his best attributes more regularly. I think he can adapt his play though as he can pass and track back when needed. Just really felt he wasn’t in the most confident of places and this does have an impact. On both his trust in team mates and them in him.

With Bruno I feel he is more erratic than I’d like as my main conductor behind the number 9 but i still feel he can contribute to the team as his stats do suggest. Sometimes his poor performances are hidden behind these figures but he can win a game with a moment of quality. Maybe that pressure he had previously still has an affect too but when controlled he is good.
 
I would be trying to sell Bruno to Saudi if I was Ineos. Maybe that's why Bruno has done an interview where he mentions wanting to stay - Ineos may have told him he's up for sale in the summer.
 
Zed 101 said:
Rashford playing at his best is top tier, really could be up there, imagine him in a Real Madrid side where his only role is to attack, problem is if Rashford is not used in a side which supports his needs his effectivity drops off a cliff, I like Rashford, always have, he is a archetypal Utd winger, problem is football has moved on, he is good enough to at least set the team up to allow him to play to his strengths

Bruno is the most frustrating player, I am not a fan of stats, but his stats are up there both good and bad, you cannot fault his effort, desire and commitment, but man o man he can be so wasteful, and that is the bind, you see what he could be as a number 10 with a little more composure, I do not think he will ever get past this, maybe if we get a real good midfield set up and have more control in matches then maybe he is more in control too, can but hope, cannot help but think ETH wanted Mount to force Bruno out for this very reason
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He is nothing like an archetypal united winger, he is an inside forward. Has no interest in beating a full back on the outside or tracking back.
 
Both remain problems. One or two good games changes nothing. It's borderline beaten wife syndrome to be honest. Two events have occurred where both haven't made us regret having them and suddenly we're at 'maybe we should give him another season...' stage.

No. Bin both. Neither have anything close to the quality we need and both will always let us down far, far more often than they'll occasionally not.

Rashford has always looked brilliant in a certain light, against certain opponents, at certain times of the season, if certain events are aligning, if you squint, sometimes, maybe and if you then still ignore all the negatives in his game. That needs to stop being the standard for playing for Manchester United for crying out loud.
 
Bruno isn’t a problem. He sacrificed a lot for us against Liverpool. He never moans about where he’s asked to play and he always puts in a shift.
 
Prodigal7 said:
Yeah I think you're right there. If Mount brings his numbers and form from Chelsea here then Bruno doesn't start. At least not as a 10.
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Mount has to be fit for more than 2 games for that to happen . Bruno is fit every single game and is our most reliable player. So under appreciated on here.
 
DJ_21 said:
Mount has to be fit for more than 2 games for that to happen . Bruno is fit every single game and is our most reliable player. So under appreciated on here.
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It’s tending towards the opposite actually. He’s been incredibly unreliable this season in his job as a number 10
 
Prodigal7 said:
It’s tending towards the opposite actually. He’s been incredibly unreliable this season in his job as a number 10
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Why’s that? Yes his numbers aren’t as good as last seasons but you can’t accuse him of never putting in 100%. More than what other players do. He’s the least of our worries in my opinion.
 
DJ_21 said:
Why’s that? Yes his numbers aren’t as good as last seasons but you can’t accuse him of never putting in 100%. More than what other players do. He’s the least of our worries in my opinion.
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He’s been poor in pretty much every department other than effort and Bruno is one of those players where if he’s not making goals and assists then he’s not doing much else. He’s never been capable of orchestrating general play in the middle of the park and has never seemed to play intricate one two football to elevate other players. He’s an off the cuff player so is always on or off. When he’s off or even just in mediocre form he’s well below what is required for a team that wants to challenge for top 4.
 
Prodigal7 said:
He’s been poor in pretty much every department other than effort and Bruno is one of those players where if he’s not making goals and assists then he’s not doing much else. He’s never been capable of orchestrating general play in the middle of the park and has never seemed to play intricate one two football to elevate other players. He’s an off the cuff player so is always on or off. When he’s off or even just in mediocre form he’s well below what is required for a team that wants to challenge for top 4.
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Fair point. But could it be a case of the team not playing well so it makes other players look worse than they are? If the team plays well together then it makes everyone look great. There’s been games where Bruno’s played bad but still created and all his chances don’t always get finished. Under Solskjær is where Bruno was best when he had people running in behind in a counter attacking system. Maybe he’s not use to a possession based game.
 
DJ_21 said:
Fair point. But could it be a case of the team not playing well so it makes other players look worse than they are? If the team plays well together then it makes everyone look great. There’s been games where Bruno’s played bad but still created and all his chances don’t always get finished. Under Solskjær is where Bruno was best when he had people running in behind in a counter attacking system. Maybe he’s not use to a possession based game.
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That might be a part of it but I’d argue it’s only a small part. A number 10 at Manchester United needs to be capable of more IMO, and needs to be able to elevate others players in the way Scholes and Rooney did. That’s the level of player we need to be where we should be. Ole’s football worked for a while but was so basic and predictable that when other teams sussed out what we were doing we became a mid table club. No top club can play purely counterattacking football anymore, the game has evolved too much. Much more is asked of players now in terms of ability on/with the ball and brainpower than even 10 years ago and that’s the reason we are where we are.

I think Bruno has realised under ETH that he’s not really up to the number 10 role. That’s why he’s said he can see himself moving deeper in a recent interview. The problem is he’s not shown he can orchestrate build up play at the level required either.
 
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ThierryHenry14 said:
I watched an youtube video KDB rated Bruno higher than Odegaard as Midfielder. He praised Bruno as a creative machine and Odegaard is more of a control type midfielder. I personally don't see issue on taking risk in final third to create chance, but I am not a coach either.
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I'd take Odegaard over Bruno, every day of the week, regardless of KDB's opinion, which may have been influenced by various factors.
 
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At the top level, you can only afford so many players who are poor in possession.

It’s math. You stack probabilities of losing possession based on your players’ ball retention - touch, dribble, passing, positions, tactics. If the number is too high, it doesn’t work.

If Rashford doesn’t score, he’s a 4-5/10. If Bruno doesn’t assist, he’s a 5/10. No managers have consistently changed that, and it’s because of their fundamental strengths and weaknesses. Accumulating players like this are why we are Moments FC.

Happy with our level? They’re perfect players. Want to improve? Not so much.

One key thing - they aren’t our biggest problems. So while we need to replace them, we need to replace a few other positions first. It’ll be 1-3 seasons more with them, I bet.
 
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ThierryHenry14 said:
I watched an youtube video KDB rated Bruno higher than Odegaard as Midfielder.
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KDB was asked to give his "favorite creators to watch". Even if his answer was automatically meant to be the correct answer on best creators specifically, Odegaard is crucial in minimizing the number of opposition chances. When Arsenal leads he just runs around like a FIFA 98 player with the ball glued to his feet and making low-risk passes unless he sees a obvious key-ball opportunity. This is basically why Arsenal has had above 75% position many times this season. And why the opposition has sometimes had 0 chances in the second half. Because Arsenal usually scores in the first half and Odegaard starts doing his FIFA 98 thing because he has the ability to get away with that. It would have been Gold for United to have a creator midfielder which could also do this, but Bruno is Bruno.
 
Prodigal7 said:
He’s been poor in pretty much every department other than effort and Bruno is one of those players where if he’s not making goals and assists then he’s not doing much else. He’s never been capable of orchestrating general play in the middle of the park and has never seemed to play intricate one two football to elevate other players. He’s an off the cuff player so is always on or off. When he’s off or even just in mediocre form he’s well below what is required for a team that wants to challenge for top 4.
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Most of this is due to ETH tactics. Ole played with a double pivot, a 4-2-3-1 with both Fred and Mctominay in the pivot, or Pogba. this allowed Bruno far more freedom. With Mason, Rashford and Martial, all really pacey, he was great arriving late in the box and assisting because Fred and Scotty are decent at recycling possession as well as pressure/tackling in the opposing half.

ETH has decided to live or die (mostly die to be honest) with a single pivot, Casemiro, with Bruno and Mctominay or Mainoo further forward. This leaves massive gaps in the midfield and why we are so open on the counter. In addition, with so many bodies forward, the spacing is tight. Rashford had elite speed and is pretty damn good at timing his runs, but is mediocre at possession play in the final 3rd.

Do I completely blame Ten Hag for Rashford / Bruno’s form? No. But when you alter tactics to fit a philosophy rather than fit to your player strengths, you will undoubtedly see a decline in productivity.

I do think that with a pragmatic manager like Ole, Rashford and Bruno will deliver more frequently because tactics were built around their strengths. Ancelotti is the ultimate pragmatic manager, just look at the way he said, feck the 4-3-3, we’re going to play a diamond and rely on a front 2 is Vini and Rodrygo with Bellingham as the tip of a midfield diamond. Those are his personnel, and he altered setup and tactics to highlight their strengths, not ask them to do things they aren’t good at…
 
Some of us have been saying this for three years now and that's back when they were good. They absolutely have to go to allow for a proper rebuild.

Somehow there are people that think we'd miss them. If Spurs can lose Kane and improve, how can we be afraid to lose this brainless duo in fear of getting worse? They are easily replaceable.
 
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