Matic is a goner too, plus Mata has been reduced to 5 min cameo's. We cant tell everyone they're sh!t and wont play again, some of these guys will need to play at some point during a 10 month long season; so they need to be on-side with Ole.
Appointing Solskjaer was a mistake
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Funny how you guys repeat the same arguments even when it's answered. He took over when we were 6th, he finished 6th, won't look out of place on facebook or twitter arguments. What was the points gap to 4th place when he took over? Wasn't it around 11 points? Once Ole took over, he finished with 3rd most points.
On any other given year when things are going our way, we are top but ofcourse we need to be taking our chances.
Is that Ole's fault? not signing another player or DoF? which I don't think will happen. The board are underperfoming massively.
In my view, I think DDG needs to be dropped until his situation is clear. Will he sign a contract? where is his concentration gone?
Yeah, that's my point of view of course, which I'm adamant about.
Obviously it's not all negatives, but I'd always back someone like Poch who has proven himself more than Ole. To me experience counts a lot, because knowing you have done something before it's certainly easier and managing us is a monumental job.
Not going to lie either if we had a proven manager at helm with the same exact situation as Ole is now(results, transfer window) - I'd most probably would've backed him up. Credentials, philosophy, winner mentality and showcased ability to win is of utmost significance in our current situation.
If we had a proper structure, DoF, players were brought in based on a club profile, youth team development, etc again probably would've given him more time. Sadly we don't.
It's not about the glory - titles, cups etc. At this point I'd take us being properly run club with ambitions and clear plan on the pitch and in the board.
He asked what arguments we had since Jose was sacked
Of course those are going to be repeated...I don't consider finishing 6th a success by any means. I don't consider not winning anything a success either.
Ole was brought in as a caretaker and if we didn't ejaculate prematurely after the PSG game I doubt he would be given the perm job on the back of the run we finished the season on.
He asked what arguments we had since Jose was sacked
And that was a dishonest argument considering the point gap between 4th placed team and ManUtd. Under Ole we gained 3rd most points in the league, only behind Liverpool and City.
You and me both mate, just want attacking football with players who are not here to purchase their next yacht etc.
Agree the squad is a massive worry, looks paper thin, although I think Gomes and the boys are ready to be first team squad players, massive gambling hoping they all come good, and all have good seasons as well, especially the likes of Mason who is only 17.
Hope and pray we don't have to many injuries but with the Europa coming up, we could be struggling.
Does the point difference matter? 6th is still 6th.
We are also 3 wins in the last 15. Is that a dishonest argument as well?
Spurs were losing points in the end of the season because they prioritized CL, clearly, and they have almost assured CL place.
Mourinho was sacked for being 6th after finishing 2nd the year before after 19 games into the new season - he also qualified us for the second stage in CL.
If you look at the results he should've finished the season perhaps at the very least?
Does the point difference matter? Why should Ole be judged on the shit work done by Jose, who was competing with Bournemouth when he was sacked? Shows how good Ole did when winning 3 in last 15 games, still he ended up with 3rd most points since he took over.
Spurs shit form started from Feb, did they give up on league so early?
Spurs shit form coincided with 2 tough London derbies and visit to Anfield. After that they were done with challenging for the top spot and had 5-6 points cushion at 3rd place. Yes they lost some points on the road due to their deep CL run.
Compared to them we had no other "distractions" and lost to Soton, Everton(humiliated), Wolves, Cardiff, City(not surprising of course) and drew with Chelsea and Huddersfield at home. Apart from City - all those teams that we played with were beatable and even with City they fought on 2-3 fronts at the time.
Not exactly the same comparison is it?
Jose also prioritized EL when we were making the finals and also battling for top 4 which resulted in losing points here and there. Spurs also didn't have that much of a big squad and picked some injuries on the way.
@AshRK fair answers, I don't expect everyone to agree with every single point, just answered with my POV what could be better.
Just to reiterate on two of the points:
2. We ditched the high press when we started picking injuries last season. Yes this season we are pressing high, but who knows after couple of muscle injuries. Ole has the history if tinkering his approach when things aren't going his way but those changes rarely lead to something constructive as seen in the end of last season. Essentially it looks good when it works, but we have no plan B when it doesn't.
On 7. McT was introduced by Jose and in the first three games this season I can't really say he has improved to be honest. Rasford again has the same strengths and weaknesses like the previous two seasons and his improvement is the natural trend of getting more mature with age. Pereira I wouldn't say he has improved as well. Martial is a strange one, still long way from his debut season, moving him to CF could probably be improvement of course, who knows.
Just to reiterate on two of the points:
2. We ditched the high press when we started picking injuries last season. Yes this season we are pressing high, but who knows after couple of muscle injuries. Ole has the history if tinkering his approach when things aren't going his way but those changes rarely lead to something constructive as seen in the end of last season. Essentially it looks good when it works, but we have no plan B when it doesn't.
On 7. McT was introduced by Jose and in the first three games this season I can't really say he has improved to be honest. Rasford again has the same strengths and weaknesses like the previous two seasons and his improvement is the natural trend of getting more mature with age. Pereira I wouldn't say he has improved as well. Martial is a strange one, still long way from his debut season, moving him to CF could probably be improvement of course, who knows.
It's same comparison, they were 1 or 2 games away from losing 4th position. Only difference is you just want to make excuse for their shit form. There is a stat floating around, that in the last 15 PL games, Spurs are 18th in the table.
Also they finished 1 point ahead of Arsenal, they were always in the top 4 fight and never took it easy in the league. It's just a convenient excuse.
Same with Jose, he didn't prioritize earlier, he did when he knew we had no chance of making top 4 considering the shit form in the league.
Anyways not sure why Spurs are discussed when it should be about Ole. He got 3rd most points. We would have been top 4 if Jose was sacked earlier. It's hilarious to blame him for the 6th position.
He should have realised how poor our midfield was and should have made it his biggest priority and not the defence. Logically too. Yes our defence needed a few players too but we did not lose any defenders while he lost two midfield players who were almost regulars and did not replace them. If we had got two quality midfield players and I mean world class, even with Lindelof and Smalling at the back and with Martial and Rashford up front we would have done a lot better if the tactical set up was right.
As I’ve said the difference is one played a CL final the other didn’t. Like with Jose who won a EL final and we fell in the rankings.
If Jose was sacked earlier there is absolutely no guarantee you could know that as we were in a free fall in the end of the season and most likely be getting worse than better.
I’m not blaming him for the 6th position but getting 6th doesn’t really strike me as an improvement. It’s hilarious to pick up only on that point that we debated long before.
I guess 3 games in a row with Lingard at #10 in 4-2-3-1 with a full strength team is colossal tactical improvement for you and only positive signs for what will come?
Of course. If you can’t reinforce all positions you need you still absolutely have to have a spine. You can postpone buying another defensive player when you are skint in midfield.
I picked only that point as that was hilarious. Blaming Ole for finishing 6th, ignoring context and everything.
Re bold part, that would be the case if I was agenda poster like yourself, but no. I have already said it was a disaster and the decision will get him sacked.
But how do you know he didn't make it a priority to the board that he needs a CM to replace Herrera.
Favoritism is still one of his biggest flaws. Like his insistance on playing Lingard after time and time again being left dissapointed. He needs to grow a pair and start benching these type of guys too and let them know constant games of performing like utter crap won't cut it here.
Because if he had insisted that the first priority is a midfield player and not a defender then the Board would not have gone over his head and signed a winger, a rb and a Cb. For them it is all about money and nothing to do whether is a rb, lb, or a cb or for that matter any position.
If Lingard starts next game and we drop points then it will get very ugly. He should drop Lingard.
Van Gaal - my captain always plays.
Jose - Lukaku, Matic played no matter what
Ole - Lingard starts many games.
Not sure why these managers repeat the same mistakes but with different players.
ARe you sure the board would have gone out of their way to sign a CM, considering Jose kept on asking for a RW and CB and his demands were not fulfilled last season. WHat makes you think the same board would have agreed to Ole's demands.
It is worth adding that we also sold our best striker to compensate that fee.
Woodward is the main guy to get rid of, after that maybe another Glazer puppet could come in then get him out too, maybe the assholes might get some sort of a message.
I'm not sure you understood the point claiming it's hilarious. Ole's appointment was premature. If we ended the season the way we did and he was still interim at the time, do you honestly believe he would've got the job at the end of the season on the back of the worst run in 6 decades and also winning nothing and finishing 6th - the position he took over from?
You have your own agenda coming with excuses for all the pitfalls and would probably we have to lose all chance for top 4 this season to begin seeing those points, but at that time it will be too late and the season would be lost.
WE were at the peak then came the Glazers, that is the fact.
Woodward's bitch.
I understood the post and that's why I said it was hilarious. Whether Ole deserved the job is different argument. You keep moving the goal posts making random points. Initial argument was "he took over when we were 6th and finished 6th" fecking hell what a desperate argument.
I don't have agenda. I never said Ole will be hit and will win something. I said he deserves time to implement his ideas just like others got time. I can see the mistakes, I have pointed out too. In fact I pointed out many and didn't agree with many of his last decisions. I said playing Lingard is a mistake and will get him sacked, 4231 is not suitable for us and should switch to 4-3-3, I disagreed with his transfer window too, we should have signed few more. Also disagreed with the idea that we should send Sanchez on loan. So since the season is over I pretty much disagreed with most of his work.
Don't think everyone is like you, there are fans who wants to give him time and also can point out mistakes. May be very hard concept but not everyone is agenda driven poster.
Again hilarious you talking about excuse and even more when you keep repeating "he finished 6th" when everyone knows why we finished 6th. In case if it's too complicated for you to understand, it's because of your hero Jose.
Just like how I backed Jose and Van Gaal, I will back Ole by pointing out the positives and negatives as per me, will give time and when I don't see any improvement I will start to post that he should be gone. It's not a competition to see who shouts 'ole out' first.
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Because as we know Jose kept changing the names and no one knew what exactly he wanted. He wanted a CB so he got Bailly. He wanted a striker so he got Lukaku. He wanted a midfield player so he got Fred. He also got Zlatan and Pogba and Dalot. So if Ole had demanded that he wanted a midfield player or for that matter two instead of a winger, a rb and a cb, there is no reason to doubt that the Board would have got him a midfielder or two especially if he sold Lukaku and now they have got rid of Sanchez.
fecking hell, make up the shit just to have a go at Ole. 
What random points? If you look up my posts I've said those things over and over again. That list was just summarized all of them. It's not like it isn't true either.
The poster asked those who want him out what is their reasoning and you barged on one of the points. I'm not sure who has the agenda.
8 months are enough for me to make a judgement based on what I've seen during that time, based on his time at Cardiff and based on what is expected to happen. You can do whatever you want and have your own agenda it's a public forum and everyone has his opinion.
I barged on one point as it was laughably poor, out of context, piss taking point. Of course everyone have their opinion and this is forum where other opinions are challenged.
Funny you went on and on about how Jose wasn't backed but somehow expected miracles with same squad.
As said in the other thread, funny that LvG and Jose are blamed for the transfer business and Ole not. How does that work since the board is the same?
You either blame all of them or neither, or that doesn't suit your agenda?
Is Jose the one who calls the shots on what Sanchez would earn at the team?
Why would Ole be blamed for transfer business when he signed 3 players, 2 of them are upgrades on what we have and other championship winger has scored 2 goals in 3 games?
Don't think anyone blamed Jose for not offloading players, he was blamed for signing wrong and old players.
Not sure which player, there was report that Jose didn't want to sell him and didn't use him either, when that's the case it's obvious who should be blamed.
Which has nothing to do with wage structure and value of the said players. If you are exempting the fault in Ole in terms of transfer business, how you can put it on Jose?
Also talk about premature labeling those 3 deals as a success in 3 games into the season.
Again is Jose's fault that Sanchez was offered 500k per week? Is it his fault that he wanted Maguire an year earlier which would be 20m or so less expensive and most likely less in wages?
You keep on blabbering on how much he spent, yet when it comes to Ole he has nothing to do with transfer business and it's only the board, so how does that work and change in terms of activity over couple of months?
Ole might have been happy with the young squad and didn't want more signings or didn't have plan B on the signings that didn't work out. You don't know what happened so don't make claims like that.
You are mixing up things here, maybe 2 threads is too much to handle for you. I didn't blame Jose or anyone for the wage structure or anything, or even Sanchez. Take your argument to @Wumminator. My point was you went on and on about how Jose wasn't backed but somehow expected miracles from Ole with the same squad.
I didn't label 3 deals as success, I said why Ole is not getting criticism for his signings and transfer market.
As I've said when Jose was backed - and he was - he got us the best results since Fergie retired. 2 CL qualifications out of 2, 2 cups and a 2nd place - highest since 6 years.
Ole was an interim when he was hired - he was expected to do better with the squad he inherited - this is what interim is supposed to do.
So I take it you are happy with the transfer window and Ole has nothing to do with letting players go without replacements? He can't veto Lukaku and Sanchez deals? We're bare bones in attack and it's gameweek 3. Do you really believe that Ole wouldn't have got someone like Ben Yadder for 30-40m EUR or whatever was cited if we really wanted it and it was crucial for our season?
Jose obviously brought dud players, but again it's valid for all managers - Pep, Klopp, Fergie also had unsuccessful transfers that they moved on with time.
4th place is not a miracle considering Chelsea have had a transfer ban and lost their best player.
All I can say is, you are mixing up 2 threads and all over the place, avoided simple question and sort of made up one more argument too (that somehow interim managers are expected to get better from the squad than the manager who actually signed these players)
Good day.
You have a lot of trust on this board. The fact that one of the biggest club in the world only allows their manager to choose either a MF or RW should itself show how incompetent the board is.
Dont know about mistake him being appointed but backing off from initial plan to make a decision at the end of season, while looking for DoF in the same time was a mistake 100% for me, said it back then, nothing changed in that regard.
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