If you wanted Moyes to stay, then I have to assume you are a supporter of a rival club.
Either that, you are having a joke, just to get response from other posters.
Appointing Solskjaer was a mistake
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If you wanted Moyes to stay, then I have to assume you are a supporter of a rival club.
Either that, you are having a joke, just to get response from other posters.
Why do people think that things magically change if you give coaches a couple of years? Why would they suddenly come up with solutions that they couldn't find in three years?
We would because we have seen what he can do, that's why we would give him time and patience. Its not the same for Ole because in 10 years of managing he has done feck all. Molde are still champions now you know with some manager nobody knows. If Poch was available now every top club in Europe would be after him. If Ole was available now not one single club would want him as manager. Thats the difference.
I think he means, give them time AND backing both financially and with football.
The problem here is Woodward. So I don't think y'all folk need to be slapping each other balls over little nuances. No manager can be successful in the way we expect under the clown and the wretched owners.
Sacking him is just going to solve nothing. In fact, it’s just going to push us back even further. We’ve sacked and hired managers before. What difference is doing this all over again going to achieve? Glazers & Woodward are the problem. Even Pep Guardiola would struggle to work under this set up.
I wasn’t born at the time but I wonder how many folk wanted SAF sacked in his first couple of years in charge when we struggled? Probably a massive majority on here.
I wasn’t born at the time but I wonder how many folk wanted SAF sacked in his first couple of years in charge when we struggled? Probably a massive majority on here.
Whilst I agree with much of the narrative of giving Ole time to make the changes I really fear that will not happen. I am not sure who actually pulls the strings regarding managerial changes but it most be either Woody or the Glazers, either as a group or as one of them individually. Because of this I fear Ole will be very lucky to make it to the end of the season, even Christmas could be possible depending on results.
On the form so far I feel very nervous every game because we have gone from quite good against Chelsea ( but far too open ) better against Wolves ( apart from controlling the game better when winning ) to quite poor against Palace ( due to being unable to open up a side that tends to sit back and rely on a breakaway goal ) The next game against S'hampton could be very much like the Palace game but I'm hoping they come out a bit more being at home. Either way I'm not putting money on a Utd. win.
Comparing, Moyes, van Gaal, Mourinho and Ole is like comparing chalk and cheese as they were different in so many ways from style of football to success records. Unlike many on here I have seen this before in a part of my life when Utd came before everything including education, work, girls and even family at times. The things I did to get to and into matches make me shiver when I think about it now. During this period I saw the club go through 4 or 5 managers and a relegation before stumbling on Fergie. It then took him 6 to 7 years before he hit the jackpot. In that period some the football was atrocious and some of his buys were laughable.
Please don't blame Ole for everything and expect miracles. They rarely happen.
On the form so far I feel very nervous every game because we have gone from quite good against Chelsea ( but far too open ) better against Wolves ( apart from controlling the game better when winning ) to quite poor against Palace ( due to being unable to open up a side that tends to sit back and rely on a breakaway goal ) The next game against S'hampton could be very much like the Palace game but I'm hoping they come out a bit more being at home. Either way I'm not putting money on a Utd. win.
Comparing, Moyes, van Gaal, Mourinho and Ole is like comparing chalk and cheese as they were different in so many ways from style of football to success records. Unlike many on here I have seen this before in a part of my life when Utd came before everything including education, work, girls and even family at times. The things I did to get to and into matches make me shiver when I think about it now. During this period I saw the club go through 4 or 5 managers and a relegation before stumbling on Fergie. It then took him 6 to 7 years before he hit the jackpot. In that period some the football was atrocious and some of his buys were laughable.
Please don't blame Ole for everything and expect miracles. They rarely happen.
There's some people on here who would be better suited to supporting Chelsea, they have a culture of all the problems begin and end with the manager and they're pushing that agenda here.
Anyone with half a brain can see we're a work in progress, and we're naive but that's the price you pay for playing youth also. Not that I'm complaining, I'd rather have this current United team with its current set up that anything I've seen in the last 6 years.
Maguire can play tiki taka as much as Pique. The defense responsibility in such a philosophy is to remain calm while in possession and understand how to play from the back. Both Maguire and Linderlof have those traits and are more than capable of improving upon that under a stronger manager.
I disagree with the statement that quite a few of our players aren’t good enough. The main problem is our manager is not good enough. Ten Haag went to the champions league semi finals with an average team with only two real talent, Klopp and Pochettino has been challenging for the title with an average team until their management abilities made those average players into top players.
United have spent almost the same amount on players than City. Yet, some fans claims we have an average team. The only difference between us and City is that our managerial choices has been poor. If we had appointed Pep when he was available we would be winning titles by now. Pochettino and Klopp have transformed players that United fans used to mock like Milner, Sissoko, Winks, Henderson, Wildernjum, Trippier, into good team players. Whereas, they also developed decent players like Mane, Salah, Son, Ali, Kane, Firmino and so on into top talent. If Klopp or Pochettino was our manager we will see similar players develop at United with a lot of improvements to the way we play football. We have a strong depth and I m sure Liverpool and Spurs fans can name a full eleven players that they would want to take from United. The problem is not our players it is our poor manager choice.
Those managers has done more with less, so I believe they could win or at least challenge with these groups of players.
This whole scenario is sounding more contrived.
The conversion rate for penalties in the EPL is aprrox 80%. We missed 2 in 2, should have been awarded another v Palace and Cahill should have received a red. The only people arguing that are people loving to see us lose (Wright).
The probability of us missing all those penalties was low, all those penalties on the bounce, incredibly low.
Your scenario requires significantly bending the laws of probablity.
Ronaldo, Kane and Messi have a conversion rate of 14, 15 nd 17% respectively. But they take on far more chances/shots. So picking someone far more 'clinical' , Vardy and Icardi 27% and 28%.
Your asking a lot of all those chances to be converted.
In regards to Chelsea scoring 1 and sitting back. They can't keep Norwich out. They've failed to keep a clean sheet this season. They was without Rudiger and Kante who make up a huge part of their defensive stability.
So no, your scenario isn't small margins at all.
The fact that you of all people is trying to frame yourself as the sensible one in this dynamic is amazing.
I must admit some doubts were creeping in when we were 4th from bottom in February 1990, after 11 league games without a win, and more than three years into his reign. This after being heavily backed in the transfer market in 1989. You'd be a brave man to bet on Sir Alex eventually getting it right at that time.
Exactly!
We’ve hired and sacked mangers before. What difference is doing this all over again going to achieve? People need to realise that this is no damn easy fix. We’ve been in a mess for a very long time thanks to the inept Woodward who the main brunt of the criticism should be pointed at, not the manager. If anyone should be relieved of their duties, it should be this clown!
Pep Guardiola would struggle here under this setup. As I said, I wouldn’t be surprised if the vast majority on here were screaming for SAF to be sacked after his first few years at the club.
Care to elaborate?
Yes it was a mistake. He was planned as a interim manager until we made sure we'd find the right manager. Unfortunately his amazing start worked to our detriment. Poch would have been the obivious man to come here if he was interested. As it is now I don't think Poch fancies the challenge.
I get you. Your not a true fan until you've sucked dick to get a seat in the Stretford End. /s
We are where we are because:
1) We pick the wrong managers. LVG and Jose are past it, the other 2 have no idea what are they doing here.
2) We expect the managers to magically turn it around when it's clear that we are just wasting our time. Jose's contract should not have been extended, Ole should not have got a permanent job. These 2 terrible decisions from our board cost us massively.
3) Our fanbase is simply deluded when it comes to managers. They feel the need to defend the manager no matter what and it takes a good couple of years for them to open their eyes. And it's just because we had 2 guys throughout our entire history that were successful long term. They need to understand that we will not have another manager like SAF and stop this madness constantly talking BS like "He deserves at least 3 years", "I will not judge him at least until 2040/2041 season", "but but but SAF turned it around". It's plain stupid. Manager should be judged since day one. We started the season right where we left off and it's not good enough.
Seeing that our board is simply incapable of doing their job (finding a good manager), our only option is to try until we do, even if it means getting a new manager every year. This "give him 10 years to prove himself" nonsense needs to stop.
This thread 
Ahh thank the maker.. The Caf is unbearable ATM.
I very much doubt you get me. Lots of people of your era could not even begin to realise what it was like supporting a no hope team like Utd were during that period with regular beatings from Liverpool, Leeds and most of the London teams. I have a feeling you might start to learn the process very soon but wether or not you stay the distance will have a lotto say about you. By the way are you Jesse Lingard in disguise.
If only we had given Moyes 6 years he would have turned into Fergie.
Agree, that's how it works according to some of our fans
Agree, that's how it works according to some of our fans
He was a steely scott just like Fergie, so how could it not happen? He was fecking solid for Everton as well. The reason Everton finished above us in Moyes first season was because Moyes had done such bang job Everton they would do well regardless of him.
Because Fergie did. For most fans of this club there is only one way forward to success and that's the Fergie way.
The same reason people keep on discounting the first year.
Sir Alex came to us with a very impressive CV including multiple domestic titles in Scotland and one European title against Real Madrid. His impressive all around work inside Aberdeen was the reason the United board gave him extra time to implement his fresh ideas. It’s easier when results are bad to put faith in a innovative manager and a tested blueprint then to rely on trust because your manager is nice and diplomatic.
Many clubs has tried to replicate Sir Alex winning formula but failed, what’s the reason in you opinion?
I don’t want to spoil your ongoing party regarding all involved are onboard with aloe Gunnar but there is only one person who decides if the club is willing to give a failing manager extra time and that’s the chairman of the board. He also represents the majority of the owners. Is he also inside your inner circle of friends?
The reality unfortunately is that our recent results is shockingly bad. The majority of our players don’t show progress, some even show signs of regression. It’s hard to see a visible game plan except pressing high up and the players work harder. (from a low level)
I agree with you that it takes time to change a culture, to get rid of deadwood and implement new players and new ideas. We all know that but the crucial question is if Solskjær has the talent, knowledge and experience to take this club forward. There is where you and ends up with different conclusions.
My take on this is that keep him this season then find him a new role in the club, maybe as a ambassador/DoF or similar. His personality is perfect atm if our intentions is to get rid of the old and build a new core of young player, but IMO his quality as a football coach isn’t good enough if we want to compete at the highest level. So we should search for his replacement as soon as possible so we’re prepared when it’s time for him to move on.
I know my view is controversial but thankfully future results will decide who’s right or wrong.
Two points.
1. Pogba’s Conversion rate was not 80%.
2. What ifs and buts are not useful when comparing games like that. You can’t use the data from that Norwich game and transfer it to ours against Chelsea.
So, to get this straight:
-Second half of the season (when it would be wise to look for a manager and/or): It's all the player's fault, they downed tools, they're not good enough, get rid, etc.
-Pre Season (when it should be time to form the new squad): the structure is rotten, we need to get rid of the owners, let's protest, etc.
-First half of the season (when it would be logical to protest and get the most out of it): it's the manager's fault, anyone would do better, it's not getting better, let's sack him.
Rinse and repeat. Is that right?
-Second half of the season (when it would be wise to look for a manager and/or): It's all the player's fault, they downed tools, they're not good enough, get rid, etc.
-Pre Season (when it should be time to form the new squad): the structure is rotten, we need to get rid of the owners, let's protest, etc.
-First half of the season (when it would be logical to protest and get the most out of it): it's the manager's fault, anyone would do better, it's not getting better, let's sack him.
Rinse and repeat. Is that right?
As others have already pointed out Fergie was no instant success despite his record of achievement with Aberdeen. Did you know that his seasons before winning the inaugural Premier league were 11th, 2nd, 11th, 13th, 6th and 2nd ? That final First Division was won by Leeds with a certain Eric Cantona. That same Cantona joined Utd the following year ( in November, no windows then ) and we just went from strength to strength. Also, Fergie signed some real dead legs during his early years especially and many wanted him out, too many to remember actually, but that was quickly forgotten during the Golden Years. If you sign a manager and get instant success you are down right lucky.
Even City went through numerous managers before getting success but there was a plan in the background which had been clearly thought out. Only now are they reaping the real rewards of of that planning, no manager in the world would have won a title quickly after that takeover and without the planning.
Firminho was fantastic in Hoffenheim. Anyone who follows the Bundesliga would know his skills. It’s ignorant to think Klopp somehow changed him.
Also you simply cannot equate money spent with quality of signing, Sanchez is example enough.
Also that Ajax team has some of the biggest talents in Europe on almost all fronts.
People need to understand why managers like Fergie were given time. It was because of their track record and because they have proven themselves.
Giving time to a nobody is like giving Moyes 6 years - clueless.
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Because no matter how good you are - if you take over an average side, you need 2-3 years to get your players in and your ideas across. Pep didn't do great in his first season at City, Klopp didn't at Liverpool, Poch didnt at Spurs, Ferguson had one good season Before he started to rebuild the entire club and it took years...so why do people expect miracles from Solskjaer in his first year ?
I think @elnorte is referring to the fact that you pretty frequently post laughable, overly-dramatic nonsense with overtones of daft hysteria.
And yet you've got no proof again apart from your own opinion, which is a agenda driven, reactionary, emotional, knee-jerk response whenever something negative happens.
But Fergie was not a well known figure when Aberdeen appointed him. More to the point van Gaal and Mourinho were not nobodies when Utd. appointed them. Something more basic is involved with Utd's apparent inability to find a manager who hits the ground running and then stays on his feet.
If you consider Aberdeen at the time as good as United and the club being of the same stature then you can use that comparison.
Ferguson got the United job thanks to his work at Aberdeen and thanks to that track record also got himself time.
Making it at a big club is quite different proposition than making it in tin pot league. Besides even if we use the Norway league as an example how come Ole didn’t win the league again in his second stint and as soon as he is off Molde are joint top under another manager you would probably never heard his name?
Klopp made it to the EL final despite only taking over mid season, both took some time to reach their current level, but their philosophies were visible on the pitch immediately. That being said the comment I quoted was refering to LVG and Mourinho.
The managers in charge don’t cover up for the calamitous player errors & gaps in quality of the playing squad.
We lost a £70mil striker this summer [one many didn’t rate] & haven’t replaced him.
We’ve lost 2 first team midfielders in successive transfer windows & they haven’t been replaced.
It is impossible to draw a fair conclusion for OgS with this squad; where as certain players have failed under multiple managers. The playing squad is the issue, improve this & chances like yesterday are converted & errors are avoided.
No manager sends players out to lose headers to smaller players or let the ball go ‘through’ you as a GK.
We lost a £70mil striker this summer [one many didn’t rate] & haven’t replaced him.
We’ve lost 2 first team midfielders in successive transfer windows & they haven’t been replaced.
It is impossible to draw a fair conclusion for OgS with this squad; where as certain players have failed under multiple managers. The playing squad is the issue, improve this & chances like yesterday are converted & errors are avoided.
No manager sends players out to lose headers to smaller players or let the ball go ‘through’ you as a GK.
Add to that the context was very different back then. Nowadays, in the current environment, I don’t think clubs would give Fergie the same amount of time he got back then.
Pep's blueprint he was trying to implement was obvious from day 1. Klopp as well. On the lower end of that scale LVG failed but he too had a blueprint that was discernable from the get go. What takes 2 to 3 years is winning with said blueprint. With Ole I don't really see the framework or blueprint that's supposed to bear fruit after 2 years. That was what was supposed to buy him time. Show a plan and the fans would be willing to back it with patience.
You are right. There wasn't the desperation to get into the CL for a start. It is all about clubs making money and the CL is big business. The PL/Division 1 as it was not the money making machine it is now, so managers were not getting sacked by trigger happy chairman in the same way.
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