Antony: why the concern - use the player performance thread

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ClassAct147 said:
I would love to know what he's like in training regarding whether he tries to go past the full back on the outside. If he's not having much joy there how is he going to do it in a match?
The Reading full back showed him outside every time and I can't remember Antony going for it even once.
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Yeah and does he use that right foot
 
Kind of interesting to compare Antony with Mudryk. Both are 22 y/o.

In the first half against Fulham, Mudryk did nothing. The notion is that he is still ‘really young’. Antony in comparison is always a presence on the right side for us. A handful for a defender.

I’ve never heard the ‘really young’ excuse for Antony, albeit many calls for him to be given time to adjust to the PL.
 
I think Antony drew attention to himself with the posturing on his debut. His price tag is not his doing. Let's see where he is end of season.
 
Because we overpaid by 70 million. He's a gamble type of signing. Talented, but far the final product in a shit league. He should've had a price tag similar to Bergwijn and Dan James.
 
I just wish I could see some successful take ons then I’d feel really confident about him.
 
Messier1994 said:
Kind of interesting to compare Antony with Mudryk. Both are 22 y/o.

In the first half against Fulham, Mudryk did nothing. The notion is that he is still ‘really young’. Antony in comparison is always a presence on the right side for us. A handful for a defender.

I’ve never heard the ‘really young’ excuse for Antony, albeit many calls for him to be given time to adjust to the PL.
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He has been a presence on the right side as Erik is picking him for the starting 11 in nearly every game but he has not been a handful for a defender from what I have seen, if he had been then he would not get all this criticism.
 
I think a lot of it also comes from understanding the winger’s role in ETHs system. Especially when we have a LW that is more of a forward.

ETHs goal is to get the team really high up the pitch, more or less only stay back with three players, which forced the opponents to defend with 7-8 players. From there you play a really high defense and you have every chance to win back possession directly after you have lost the ball.

To get there, it’s essential to have a winger that can lick the line, take a pass despite being pressured, and maintain possession high up pitch while the rest of the team moves up. I can guarantee that ETH don’t mind Antony getting a pass high up on the right side, showboat a bit, then turn out against the side line and pass to a CM.

Antony is really strong on the ball in those situations. They have different styles, but that is what Bernado Silva does for City.

In addition, the winger are the most dangerous in 1 on 1 situation in more counter attack style of situations, in more up and down the pitch style of play.

I 100% agree with the notion that there are room for improvement in Antony’s game. But a lot of the things he does — that he is called out for — is more or less by design. ETH will always prefer a winger who maintains possession of the ball and gets the team up field over a winger who lose possession 9 of 10 times, to get by his guy and get a shot off the 10th time.
 
Anthony is doing something right when the team keeps winning.
 
Its got nothing to do with the players themselves. The longer we go without winning silverware esp the PL, the shorter the patience it is for our own players from the fans.
 
sglowrider said:
Its got nothing to do with the players themselves. The longer we go without winning silverware esp the PL, the shorter the patience it is for our own players from the fans.
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And winning silverware is everything to do with the players is it not?
 
Red in STL said:
And winning silverware is everything to do with the players is it not?
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It seems new players are given a shorter and shorter rope nowadays. There was always the proverbial year to settle in -- new to the league etc for both players and managers. But now they are all expected to kick on immediately when most don't. There will always be an adjustment period -- and someone like Antony who clearly knows what an ETH system looks like is being slotted into a team that's developing into an ETH system.
I bet he has been instructed to keep things simple for now while the team is evolving.
 
sglowrider said:
It seems new players are given a shorter and shorter rope nowadays. There was always the proverbial year to settle in -- new to the league etc for both players and managers. But now they are all expected to kick on immediately when most don't. There will always be an adjustment period -- and someone like Antony who clearly knows what an ETH system looks like is being slotted into a team that's developing into an ETH system.
I bet he has been instructed to keep things simple for now while the team is evolving.
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re: Antony and ETH you're not wrong IMO, expectations are ludicrous, especially amongst younger fans who seem to base them on how much a player costs
 
Red in STL said:
re: Antony and ETH you're not wrong IMO, expectations are ludicrous, especially amongst younger fans who seem to base them on how much a player costs
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Younger fans in general have such short attention spans. This forum isn't twitter where messages are either written to seek attention or affirmation. Then you have FIFA Manager which then makes everyone a desktop expert.

It's changed a lot over the years and not for the better.
 
sglowrider said:
Younger fans in general have such short attention spans. This forum isn't twitter where messages are either written to seek attention or affirmation. Then you have FIFA Manager which then makes everyone a desktop expert.

It's changed a lot over the years and not for the better.
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Instant gratification and xG this and xG that, does my bleedin' head in!
 
I am worried for him, it looks like we have grossly overpaid, and he is very lucky that we are having an amazing season and all other signings have been resounding success, otherwise he would have been criticized heavily.

You look at Garnacho who is an 18 year old but plays fearlessly and take his player on, and then there is Amad who is also doing well, I won’t even talk about Rashford who has been outclass this season.

His biggest downside is he does not have pace and funnily enough we have a similar player like him on Sancho who looks even slower than him. Did we not know that we already have a winger who would not work premier league because he is slow?

for an 80m signing you expect a player who can actually create chances and score goals every other match, whereas him scoring or creating chances seem like an anomaly rather than the norm.

The only thing going for him is he works hard and tracks back, plus he is good at keeping possession on his best days and 1 in 10 games his curling shot may hit the corner.
 
simplyared said:
A month on since I started the thread on our Brazilian "wonder" and sorry to say, which contradicts the thread title and OP, I'm worried.
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Be worried when we start losing games. There's a bigger picture to see here.

He's definitely got things to work on but we're winning games, we're generally playing well and he's getting into good positions - his issue is decision making and crossing/passing instead of shooting. There's a lot of scope for improvement with him. Is he the best RW in the league, no, is he a crucial player for ETH's system, I'd say yes.
 
I'll be honest, I'm really not sure about him at all. That being said, I'd be interested to see how it works if he had a really attacking overlapping sort of right back to dovetail with.

As people say, he comes inside nearly 100 percent of the time and is completely one footed which makes it sort of predictable.

But nobody should be kidding themselves to thinking we are playing the football ETH wants 100 percent at the moment. For me at least, ETH is using what he has knowing he's a few first teamers short to really take advantage of how he wants to play.

Antony is in his first season. I am happy to give him the benefit of the doubt and hope he improves and develops. Get the feeling he has some adapting to do but...would ETH be so keen on him if he thought he wasn't capable of doing so?
 
He doesn't concern me. He's young and in a new league, but he is always a handful, he works hard tracking back, and he scores some important goals. It could take a couple of years before it clicks for him.

Potentially a bit more upper body strength would be good over summer but the talent is there.
 
I see people still don't see what he brings to the game, bloody hell. I am more than happy with him, and he will only get better. Then again, I am not price tag merchant, that might be helping.
 
Can't believe anyone would pay attention to anything Lee fecking Dixon has to say
 
He's still our best option at RW. When he was absent from the team we were doing very little from the right unless Fernandes was being forced on to that side. Since he's been back he's been getting into good positions, puts a shift in defensively and has the kind of attitude that Ten Hag wants from his players when we're chasing a goal.
 
Not concerned at all.

Like Rashford needed last summer to get match fit and start firing, Antony will need a full pre-season this summer and he'll then kick on next season.

Nobody mentions how little football he played in the 2022 calendar year due to a lengthy injury at Ajax and then several injuries at United
 
He’s decent and is part of our best XI, but he doesn’t look anywhere near an £80m player. No doubt he’ll improve further but I don’t get the impression he’ll ever reach the level to justify that pricetag. I think he’s got the right application and mentality, which is why Ten Hag likes him. That attitude will always serve you well at a top club.
 
evil_geko said:
I see people still don't see what he brings to the game, bloody hell. I am more than happy with him, and he will only get better. Then again, I am not price tag merchant, that might be helping.
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We see it, it's just not enough.
 
11101 said:
He doesn't concern me. He's young and in a new league, but he is always a handful, he works hard tracking back, and he scores some important goals. It could take a couple of years before it clicks for him.

Potentially a bit more upper body strength would be good over summer but the talent is there.
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I think that he is the compete opposite of a handful to be honest. A PL standard left back could defend him smoking a pipe and wearing slippers- his unwillingness to test them on the outside means that they just have to position themselves a foot closer to their CB's than they would against a dangerous winger/wide forward and suddenly a confused Anto is turning and passing the ball back where it came from.

He might yet function much better on the right once the team becomes more cohesive but at present Bruno is the superior option (albeit out of position).
 
LawCharltonBest said:
Not concerned at all.

Like Rashford needed last summer to get match fit and start firing, Antony will need a full pre-season this summer and he'll then kick on next season.

Nobody mentions how little football he played in the 2022 calendar year due to a lengthy injury at Ajax and then several injuries at United
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Rashford's numbers when playing poorly were better than his though. There's just no consistency with our fanbase and new signings always seem to walk on water for quite a while for many.

To have only registered one assist in all competitions by first week of March is just nowhere near good enough. That's not to say he can't get better but so far he's looking a very poor purchase.

Thankfully the form of others is masking it a bit though. If Rashford wasn't firing Antony would be coming under far more scrutiny.
 
He's never anonymous, I'll give him that. Always gets on the ball and wins it a few times too tracking back.

I'd like to see him just take one touch, look up and find Rashford or Garnacho with a diagonal pass. Then bust a gut towards goals for return pass
 
He’s been getting better. Not a great game last night but still our best RW
 
I'm sick of people obsessing over price tags. It's not your fecking money and the Glazers overpaying for players has basically forced them to sell the club which is a win in my book.
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
Rashford's numbers when playing poorly were better than his though. There's just no consistency with our fanbase and new signings always seem to walk on water for quite a while for many.

To have only registered one assist in all competitions by first week of March is just nowhere near good enough. That's not to say he can't get better but so far he's looking a very poor purchase.

Thankfully the form of others is masking it a bit though. If Rashford wasn't firing Antony would be coming under far more scrutiny.
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Don't agree

He works hard down the flank, tracks back, makes loads of interceptions, fights for the team and tackles and scores important goals.

it's no wonder ETH likes him. People just expect a Brazilian attacker to be a different mould of player

Absolutely he has working points - strength, right foot, decision making in the final third and fitness. But they're all things that will be highlighted and will be worked on ahead of next season. there's no major concerns and he's not a "poor purchase"
 
What's the point in editing the thread title? You would have thought the OP might have learnt after spending ages slagging off Fred.
 
We are more solid defensively with him on the RW. This in itself gives room for players like Shaw/Malacia, Casemiro/Fred/Sabitzer and Wan Bissaka/Dalot to contribute in attack, and for Rashford/Garnacho to cheat a bit in defense to preserve more danger for the counter.
He is also one of the few attacking players we have who is able to retain the ball under pressure and get it out through the middle third fairly consistently. This protects us against being countered or sieged.

I think this is why Ten Hag seems to prefer him whenever he is fit to play.
 
Blood Mage said:
I'm sick of people obsessing over price tags. It's not your fecking money and the Glazers overpaying for players has basically forced them to sell the club which is a win in my book.
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Well price tags do matter whether you like or not. By most accounts United don’t have unlimited budgets to spend anymore and so when you spend premium amount on a player you want to get good value for it
 
londonredmaniac said:
I'll be honest, I'm really not sure about him at all. That being said, I'd be interested to see how it works if he had a really attacking overlapping sort of right back to dovetail with.

As people say, he comes inside nearly 100 percent of the time and is completely one footed which makes it sort of predictable.

But nobody should be kidding themselves to thinking we are playing the football ETH wants 100 percent at the moment. For me at least, ETH is using what he has knowing he's a few first teamers short to really take advantage of how he wants to play.

Antony is in his first season. I am happy to give him the benefit of the doubt and hope he improves and develops. Get the feeling he has some adapting to do but...would ETH be so keen on him if he thought he wasn't capable of doing so?
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Alot of wingers who cuts inside and shoot are fairly one footed. I hope he develops some decision and learn to pick his moments when to cut in and when you just keep it wide and simple.
 
Ayush_reddevil said:
Well price tags do matter whether you like or not. By most accounts United don’t have unlimited budgets to spend anymore and so when you spend premium amount on a player you want to get good value for it
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Ok but the manager wanted him so as always it falls on him if it doesn’t work out. Let’s give it another 12 months before we come to any real conclusions. He won’t get another wad to upgrade on that side and rightly so.
 
The thing with Antony is that – so far, at least – his main strengths are things like ball retention in the middle of the field; providing a good outlet on the right side of the field for the perspective of balance; a diligent presser who tracks back etc… Which is great for squad balance and he’s doing a lot in that sense.

I don’t think he’ll ever be a great carrier of the ball in the final third nor will he be able to blitz a defender, which we’re going to have to accept, and nor will he ever grow a working right foot.

Where we will need to see him improve the most dramatically is from a creative perspective – statistically he’s down in the bottom percentile on the creative stuff and even on the eye test do you barely ever see him create a well worked chance or put in an amazing cross.

Will all of this ever level out to a player worth the large amount of money we paid for him? Eh maybe not. But there’s enough of a foundation to see what we signed him for.
 
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