Antony | Here we go! €100mill, contract until June 2027, option 'til 2028.

Status
Not open for further replies.
VP89 said:
National squads will pick in form players often, and when Raphina hasn't played its tough for him to be considered.

Its not about tracking every single team, rather it is about seeing if there is a big enough sample size to consider a player's worth. He is nowhere near established enough to command near 70m. Half that and it's still some sort of risk, but palatable.
Click to expand...
Don't think so, that means that national teams would switch up everything every single international break. They tend to quite persist with players unless there is freak loss of form / players not having minutes. See England with the likes of Shaw, Maguire, Kane, Sterling.

He's been one of the best players in the Eredivisie for 1.5 seasons, he did struggle with some injuries. There is private data that shows him also to be one of the top performers in the Eredivisie, other than just goals + assists. Unfortunately I can't share, so that's dismissable.

I find 70 million to be very steep, but there is no way in hell that he costs less than 50 million. It is completely unimaginable unless his contract runs down, in his age group and position, he is one of the top prospects and already at a very high level where he has performed at international level.
 
Who do Brazil tend to start more out of Antony, Richarlison and Raphinha? (I'm assuming Neymar is a constant in their team).
 
Kaos said:
Who do Brazil tend to start more out of Antony, Richarlison and Raphinha? (I'm assuming Neymar is a constant in their team).
Click to expand...

Raphinha, then Antony, then Richarlison from what I can tell.

Raphinha and Antony both have made a big impression since joining the national squad though, as said by Thiago Silva



(Quoting the tweet because it was the first result I found about this quote)

And when asked about the Leeds talisman and fellow newcomer Antony, Thiago Silva insisted that he was extremely impressed.

“If we had managed to win, we would be talking more about them,” he told UOL.

“The boys showed a quality that I have hardly seen in more than ten years with the Brazilian national team [of newcomers]. It’s really cool to see Raphinha and Antony showing personality. In terms of rapport, it’s a little lacking, but the individual is at a high level.”
Click to expand...

https://tbrfootball.com/thiago-silva-reacts-to-raphinha-display-in-brazil-draw/
 
Ajaxsuarez said:
Raphinha, then Antony, then Richarlison from what I can tell.

Raphinha and Antony both have made a big impression since joining the national squad though, as said by Thiago Silva



(Quoting the tweet because it was the first result I found about this quote)
Click to expand...

Ahh interesting. No surprise then that Barca are interested in those two.
 
I don't think we will move for a player like Antony having spent significant cash on Sancho who is a similar player.
Looking at ETH last two teams at Ajax he had inverted wingers with the full backs overlapping to take advantage of the space and a singular no.9.

I can see Bruno taking a wide left or right position and Jadon on the other side with Ronaldo/Striker down the middle.
We already have enough players if we took that approach.
 
TrebleChamp99 said:
I don't think we will move for a player like Antony having spent significant cash on Sancho who is a similar player.
Looking at ETH last two teams at Ajax he had inverted wingers with the full backs overlapping to take advantage of the space and a singular no.9.

I can see Bruno taking a wide left or right position and Jadon on the other side with Ronaldo/Striker down the middle.
We already have enough players if we took that approach.
Click to expand...

There's no reason Bruno wouldn't play on 10 the same way Berghuis does this season.

Also Blind and Mazraoui do sometimes overlap, but equally (if not more) often play on the inside, in the halfspaces, with then a Gravenberch overlapping on the outside from the LCM position, and Berghuis doing that on the right coming from 10 position

Edit: and also in the buildup they come inside as well, to either draw their winger with them and open up the passing line (from say Timber to Antony, if Mazraoui has come inside), or for Timber to carry the ball forward, or otherwise, if the winger doesn't follow Mazraoui to create an additional passing option on the midfield for Timber, who can then receive the ball on the halfturn and open the play up forward (which is why it's so important that both Blind and Mazraoui are technical midfielders converted into (now) fullbacks. Especially when you play with a DM, Alvarez, who is not capable of receiving a pass in that way
 
Last edited:
Ajaxsuarez said:
There's no reason Bruno wouldn't play on 10 the same way Berghuis does this season.

Also Blind and Mazraoui do sometimes overlap, but equally (if not more) often play on the inside, in the halfspaces, with then a Gravenberch overlapping on the outside from the LCM position, and Berghuis doing that on the right coming from 10 position
Click to expand...
Interesting, but isn't Bruno more of a natural finisher than Berghuis essentially a second striker? wed have DVB returning and Id assume he would be one of the 8s, alongside someone else? Id imagine DVB being more of a disciplined build up player than Bruno which would suit the outside overlapping system you mention coming from the 10 position. In terms of fullbacks I don't think either AWB or Shaw possess the needed technical ability at the moment to fit the system. Dalot absolutely not as he is more of a wing back.

Either way I think we are covered in the wide positions.
 
TrebleChamp99 said:
Interesting, but isn't Bruno more of a natural finisher than Berghuis essentially a second striker? wed have DVB returning and Id assume he would be one of the 8s, alongside someone else? Id imagine DVB being more of a disciplined build up player than Bruno which would suit the outside overlapping system you mention coming from the 10 position. In terms of fullbacks I don't think either AWB or Shaw possess the needed technical ability at the moment to fit the system. Dalot absolutely not as he is more of a wing back.

Either way I think we are covered in the wide positions.
Click to expand...

Yeah so Donny mostly played as a 10 who overlapped, I believe, largely on the left. Though the system has changed quite a bit with each season since the 18/19 season where Donny most prominently played that role.
 
That price tag is just insane. 50M at most, and that's already pushing it. Sell Rashford and we got it. But not 70M. We should look at Raphinha and Diaby if that's the case.
 
Kaos said:
Who do Brazil tend to start more out of Antony, Richarlison and Raphinha? (I'm assuming Neymar is a constant in their team).
Click to expand...

In Copa America last year, Richarlison was regular like Neymar, Casemiro, and Fred. But Raphinha wasn’t in the squad and I don’t think Antony was also in the Copa America squad.

This season, Raphinha and Antony got the call in the squad for world cup qualifiers and i think they both are above Richarlison in pecking order. In their recent international games, Antony started in both games while Richarlison was dropped on the bench in one of them (keep in mind their last international games were without Raphinha due to covid). It seems Richarlison is downgraded to their 2nd choice of striker behind Neymar now (based on their recent international games).

I think based on recent international the pecking order for right winger now is Raphinha, Antony, and Richarlison. I’m putting Raphinha above because before his covid, he started more than Antony.
 
Ali Dia said:
He looks a much better all round footballer than Rashford or Greenwood
Click to expand...

They all do until they join us dont they? Greenwood definitely has more to his game though, better with both feet and more polished finisher
 
UNITED ACADEMY said:
In Copa America last year, Richarlison was regular like Neymar, Casemiro, and Fred. But Raphinha wasn’t in the squad and I don’t think Antony was also in the Copa America squad.

This season, Raphinha and Antony got the call in the squad for world cup qualifiers and i think they both are above Richarlison in pecking order. In their recent international games, Antony started in both games while Richarlison was dropped on the bench in one of them (keep in mind their last international games were without Raphinha due to covid). It seems Richarlison is downgraded to their 2nd choice of striker behind Neymar now (based on their recent international games).

I think based on recent international the pecking order for right winger now is Raphinha, Antony, and Richarlison. I’m putting Raphinha above because before his covid, he started more than Antony.
Click to expand...

I thought Antony was brilliant throughout the tournament in their Olympics squad last summer too. Was taking the piss at times.
 
Rozay said:
I thought Antony was brilliant throughout the tournament in their Olympics squad last summer too. Was taking the piss at times.
Click to expand...
I don’t really count the Olympics since it wasn’t full of their first team choice players.
 
Ajax will use 1% of the money to sign Giovani from Palmeiras, who is younger, taller, faster, stronger and tend to be better in the future.
 
One of those where it’s impossible to tell how it’ll go. I’d look for alternatives if Ajax were really asking for £70-90m, but we should go for anyone ETH wants really, and also sell who he doesn’t like.
 
MalaysianRed7 said:
One of those where it’s impossible to tell how it’ll go. I’d look for alternatives if Ajax were really asking for £70-90m, but we should go for anyone ETH wants really, and also sell who he doesn’t like.
Click to expand...

If Ajax were looking for that, we'd be better off going for Jarrod Bowen instead.
 
MalaysianRed7 said:
One of those where it’s impossible to tell how it’ll go. I’d look for alternatives if Ajax were really asking for £70-90m, but we should go for anyone ETH wants really, and also sell who he doesn’t like.
Click to expand...

This summer we really need to avoid any player in that kind of price range let alone a risky winger.
 
Raees said:
Click to expand...


Really impressed at how accurately this video captures Antony as a player, down to even his high-energy but overly physical defensive contribution.

He compared him to Salah a couple times, and one thing he does have in common with Salah is that quick shot with little backlift on his left, which is why he sometimes seems to beat goalies with "saveable" shots.

I'm not sure I agree with him needing to bulk up though. If there were one characteristic I would most attribute to him it would be agility, and I don't know if it's worth sacrificing that for mass, especially considering his weird bent knees running style that gives him such a low centre of gravity already.
 
Is this the first piece of deadwood for whichever manager follows ten Hag?
 
Ajaxsuarez said:
Really impressed at how accurately this video captures Antony as a player, down to even his high-energy but overly physical defensive contribution.

He compared him to Salah a couple times, and one thing he does have in common with Salah is that quick shot with little backlift on his left, which is why he sometimes seems to beat goalies with "saveable" shots.

I'm not sure I agree with him needing to bulk up though. If there were one characteristic I would most attribute to him it would be agility, and I don't know if it's worth sacrificing that for mass, especially considering his weird bent knees running style that gives him such a low centre of gravity already.
Click to expand...

Ideally a winger shouldn't bulk up unless necessary. For example Ronaldo over did it for a while once he left United, but initially he added just enough to power past full backs.

It has to be added on very carefully, Antony at the moment is a tad weak when up against higher quality full backs and if he wants to reach his potential it will be necessary - but of course I agree, we do not want him turning into Shaqiri!
 
Every time I watched him play he looked raw, even for Eredevise. He does have the occasional amazing performance, but I still think he is about 2 years away before he can become part of our first team.

Even ETH said in one of his interviews that Antony needs to work on his consistency especially against weaker teams.
 
We'll be linked to half of the Ajax team now that ten Hag is a likely future manager for us.
 
Caesar2290 said:
Every time I watched him play he looked raw, even for Eredevise. He does have the occasional amazing performance, but I still think he is about 2 years away before he can become part of our first team.

Even ETH said in one of his interviews that Antony needs to work on his consistency especially against weaker teams.
Click to expand...

There's a rawness to the amount of output in terms of things he tries, and the danger he creates, vs the actual result in terms of goals, I agree.

But I think that since clearly the technique, physical attributes, mental attributes (particularly his eye for the right pass), etc. are all there, that's only a matter of time.

I think even without that final clicking into place, he's still more or less unique as an engine of constant danger as a single player. The fact that this engine knows so well how to operate within a system is what makes him so good, and why he immediately overtook Neres, and was instantly one of our best players the second he landed in Amsterdam.

I think you could put him in United right now and he would create an immense amount difficulty for almost any opponent, and I think that has a lot of value in itself even without the complete translation to goals
 
Raphinha will be cheaper and is almost an identical player.
 
Ajaxsuarez said:
Really impressed at how accurately this video captures Antony as a player, down to even his high-energy but overly physical defensive contribution.

He compared him to Salah a couple times, and one thing he does have in common with Salah is that quick shot with little backlift on his left, which is why he sometimes seems to beat goalies with "saveable" shots.

I'm not sure I agree with him needing to bulk up though. If there were one characteristic I would most attribute to him it would be agility, and I don't know if it's worth sacrificing that for mass, especially considering his weird bent knees running style that gives him such a low centre of gravity already.
Click to expand...

I read this just before watching the video and now I can't unsee this :lol:

I'd worry if it will affect him in the future as it looks like it may put a lot of strain on his joints. If he presses on, grows and gets more physical/athletic, this could be a concern. What's his injury record like?
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Raphinha is twice the price. Anthony won't cost above 30m
Click to expand...
Martial surely won’t, but Antony will :D

In all seriousness, Ajax are asking for £70-90m for him according to reports, and if Leeds go down, Raphinha’s £12m relegation release clause will be triggered. Would be a steal if he chooses us, obviously providing Leeds go down.
 
Charles Miller said:
Ajax will use 1% of the money to sign Giovani from Palmeiras, who is younger, taller, faster, stronger and tend to be better in the future.
Click to expand...

Good call. I remember around 2 years ago seeing a YouTube clip on redcafe on Antony and thinking we should've signed him then. We rarely go and sign a player at that stage but we should instead of paying 70m two years later.

Giovani looks like he has dribbling, composure and crossing too.

Only thing to confirm would be whether he's strong enough. But Raphinha doesn't look physically strong but that hasn't stopped him or Mahrez having success in the league.

Hopefully having Rangnick and Ten Hag means we'll sign Anthony then and now Anthony now.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.