Except he was played as a winger, and he was shite.
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Except he was played as a winger, and he was shite.
In my opinion he's a better defender than he is a winger now.
I'm more than happy to go with one of the greatest football managers ever (SAF) decision to play him more often than not at right wing. He also plays right wing for his country (Ecuador). Where are these 2 managers currently you speak of? If Valencia was the solution to our right back issue why would we have signed Darmian?
We'll have to agree to disagree as I think had he been kept as a winger we would have had more attacking opportunities especially with his crosses. Unfortunately we'll never know.
The rest can be debated, but these 2 based on last season are no where near being good enough
Please point another one out
How about the biggest game of last season when 2-1 up at West Ham and he let Antonio go for a free header to change the game? That game cost United a place in the champions league. The Everton away game in LVG's first season was a disaster. The third goal was embarrassing.
I really like Valencia. He is a whole hearted player and can do a really good job as an offensive option at right back or a defensive option on the right wing. But I can only assume that anyone who thinks he is good enough defensively at full back either doesn't understand what a full back does defensively or genuinely believes that "every other full back is rubbish defensively too".
He just doesn't have the defensive instincts and is a weak link that will and has cost United in big games against the better teams. He's a really good option as second choice but United needs a better first choice full back. Darmian playing poorly doesn't make Valencia a better player.
Most of them seem to be attracted to defenders bodily parts.....
Because we needed 2 RBs?
Said nobody ever.
Correct. Darmian was actually bought to be hopefully the solution to our right back issue.
Yes and Valencia was to be the back up RB. Even now No one sees him as the solution to RB problem or whatever but the point is he was mostly excellent whenever he played at RB.
He had bad games but that's not any different to every other RB in the league.
Lol. I remember saying this in high school many years ago.
How? Every one and their mum expected Johnstone to hold on to that powder puff of a free kick. He pushed it back past his defence leaving them all in no man's land and then did the same on the first rebound shot - Valencia even got a block in on the 2nd shot and no CB was even moving to cut off the third that went in.Thats hardly saying much though, he's been shocking on the wings for years.
Fellaini's probably a better defender than Valencia is a winger.
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I like Valencia but i agree don't know what a lot of people are seeing in his RB performances that i'm not. He's a decent option there but he is clearly not a natural defender, his pace and physicality help him out but i don't see Mourinho liking him there long term.
Having said that if Darmian is as bad this year as last (let's hope he isn't) then i'd happily see us start Tony at RB most games, at least he tries to help out in attack. Even if the majority of that effort entails the patented stop, turn back and pass infield and the famous shin smash to win a corner.
Aye Steve, I personally believe that Darmian was Vangled. You are correct that Valencia is a "decent option" and his place in the squad isn't in need of an urgent upgrade. There are several players who can all deputize at fullback with the squad all fit. He is, in my eyes, just another one who can deputize and I don't really see the need to force him into the starting position over a young player doing his defensive apprenticeship at fullback (TFM or Tuanzebe etc etc) or starting with Darmian as a base first team player and giving him a fresh start.
I mean, I understand that if people want to defend him as I don't think he's a crap player that needs the boot, but I don't really understand what some are really swinging swords back about him being one of the best in the league or that he must start for us. Personally I think that is a bit mental, but every fan sees it differently and it is all a game of opinions at the end of the day. It is a position, I again trust Mourinho to handle.
Dembele was completely unmarked in the penalty area. He should have been Valencia's man. That's amateur level stuff.
I really, really, really, really don't wanna see this guy as our starting RB this season...
Nobody was marked in the penalty box, Dembele, the goal scorer, Kagawa all were unmarked because it was a free kick and everyone and their mum expected Johnstone to hold it , or at worst push it into touch.. not push it right back past his defence to the attackers behind them. It was as choolboy error for the keeper that wrongfooted the entire defence.
I'm still waiting for a logical explanation on how Valencia (the only defender who got in a block in that sequence) was as culpable as Johnstone, or even Bailly who was ballwatching the whole time while the man closest to him finally put it in the net.
This
If there is anything hing better than a natural defender is an Italian defender. They may not be the physical specimen but they are tactically sound. If he hadn't been messed around by LvG I reckon he would have played more at the Euros. Even then, the coaching he has received under Conte is more influential than a player being shoehorned.
How could he have been Vangled if we had the 2nd best defensive record in the league and Darmian still couldn't defend properly?
What does Vangled even mean? Was Smalling Vangled? Was Blind? Was De Gea? Was Valencia? Was Martial? Was Rooney? Was Herrera? Was Schweini?
Was Rashford Vangled as well? And Lindgard? Tofu? Bojack? Varela?
Was Luke Shaw Vangled before his injury?
What is it about the special Darmian that made the poor lad get Vangled?
And was Pedro, Mourinho´d? And Fabregas too? And Hazard? What about Cuadrado? Was the entire Chelsea side Mourinho´d the past season?
Will Rashford be Mourinho´d with his starting spot being immediately taken away?
Yeah, Fabinho and Darmian are so much better than Valencia
Is there a stat for letting your immediate opponent score a goal? Or letting your immediate opponent assist a goal?
I like Valencia but he often still looks out of place at the back and you don't need stats to tell you that.
I like Valencia but he often still looks out of place at the back and you don't need stats to tell you that.
Unmarked? It was a free kick rebound, you don't mark. You try desperately to get the ball away if the keeper fecks up which Valencia did. You've got a very biased view if you think that goal was Valencias fault.
Precisely.
Valencia is the RB GOAT
Yeah, Fabinho and Darmian are so much better than Valencia
I not a big fan of stats to prove a point. Good or bad, football isn't best described by stats. I do however believe valencia is a very good right back
He is.
Oh, but stats don't mean anything when they disagree with you
How else are you supposed to go about it on a forum?
Till someone comes in and prove he is a better RB(easier said than done), he is the best we have for now.
@dichinero dont think we've seen many great Italian defenders outside of Italy and especially in the premiership. The last country I'd look forward to United buying a defender from is Italy. Not saying at some point there wont be one well suited to the English but for now I'll pass(though Chiellini looks a guy that could've been alright). Darmian might have been brilliant in Serie A but his natural game needs to change to adapt, anyway, time is on his side. In fact I believe if the two players were competing for the same spot in Italy/Spain Darmian will be ahead but quick recovery is a biggie for FB in the Prem. Here FBs have to defend in isolation a lot more.
@dichinero dont think we've seen many great Italian defenders outside of Italy and especially in the premiership. The last country I'd look forward to United buying a defender from is Italy. Not saying at some point there wont be one well suited to the English but for now I'll pass(though Chiellini looks a guy that could've been alright). Darmian might have been brilliant in Serie A but his natural game needs to change to adapt, anyway, time is on his side. In fact I believe if the two players were competing for the same spot in Italy/Spain Darmian will be ahead but quick recovery is a biggie for FB in the Prem. Here FBs have to defend in isolation a lot more.
Of course you mark at a free kick. Even 5 mins of amateur football tells you that. It was Johnstones fault, but Valencia definitely takes some blame.
No way can you mark from a free kick someone's shooting from because you don't know where the balls going to go. That has to be your main focus. I played plenty of amateur football as a right back, you defend the same way you would a penalty rebound. Each take an area and get there before the opponent does. No way can you mark a man like you would from a cross or corner, he will just run straight past you.
It can mean a couple of things. Where you come in and play your natural game and hit the ground running and just play. You eventually get coached to play like Van Gaal wants you to play (usually super conservative and perfect) or you are dropped and have to fight back into the squad while being coached to play properly (like LVG wants you to). So basically trying to play a certain way instead of playing instinctively and shitting yourself hoping you don't get dropped. Schniederlin I think copped this type of Herrera/Darmian style vangling a lot also. The best example is Herrera though, quite adventurous all round midfielder who was very good on the ball and using the press to beat players and bring it forward at Bilbao who was essentially "re-coached" (in his words) to play the way Van Gaal wanted him to play.
So who was supposed to be marking the right side of the penalty area? The right back!
Haha touche. It's not as clear cut as it was Valencias man is what in saying. He was covering the right area but the ball fell to their player, pretty hard to avoid in my opinion.
Man Utd 5:2 Galatasaray (Pre-season)
His crosses are never accurate
Looks good so far - much more agile than before he removed the screws in his foot.
OP must be a troll, nobody can legitimately believe Valencia is this good a RB nor have such a hilarious hard-on for Squawka mathematics.
His crosses are never accurate
One semi-accurate cross in a dozen, an easy clip in to the area in a general viccinity that goes BEHIND the player he might actually have been aiming for and suddenly he's Beckham.
Keep up the good baiting mate.
I'm not a troll. I've gave my opinion with stats and without it (if you read the whole post)
You haven't even given your argument, all you are saying is I must be a troll because I disagree with you. That's not a way to win an argument
One semi-accurate cross in a dozen, an easy clip in to the area in a general viccinity that goes BEHIND the player he might actually have been aiming for and suddenly he's Beckham.
Keep up the good baiting mate.
Did I say he was Beckham? I said the people who are saying he can't cross are obviously over exaggerating
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