It's all right. The way people talk about Valencia here, you would think he plays for Liverpool!
25
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 43
- Clean sheets
- 19
- Goals
- 1
- Assists
- 6
- Yellow cards
- 7
- Status
It's all right. The way people talk about Valencia here, you would think he plays for Liverpool!
This. He kept Dembele absolutely quiet. Dembele found joy when he switched to left.
Was good today. I still want another right back to replace Darmian but Valencia deserves a chance and will be a very useful squad player.
Played superbly against Galatasaray. When he is positive he can create a real cutting edge on the right side. His play for the second goal was what he does best.
I still don't think he is good enough defensively to be a first choice right back but he can do a really good job there as an attacking option.
I still don't think he is good enough defensively to be a first choice right back but he can do a really good job there as an attacking option.
He's solid and dependable 90% of the time. I still have some concerns about his positioning and concentration when we are defending but he deserves to be the starting RB. Great to see him providing something in attack too.
couldn't have said it better myself. Hopefully he gets some more respect in this place so when I mention him on my line ups people stop questioning it
Valencia is a good crosser but before Zlatan we had few to convert his crosses
Valencia has been an abysmal crosser for about 3 years now. Hopefully that's a thing of the past but there's no need for revisionism.
Agree. First assist cross for Zlatan was not ideal for other striker. It's Zlatan's sheer brilliance that makes it work. Cross for Fellaini's goal I can argue it's defendable with a tall defender with good aerial ability to pressure Fellaini.
Any cross is defendable if the defender is positioned so and so and has a better jump than the attacker or is bigger and stronger or reacts quicker. What a silly argument. It's a good cross if it results in a goal. Sometimes a striker has to work for it.
As long as the the cross is hung up in the air and gives attackers a chance, I'm fine with it. Valencia was never someone who picked out a man even at his best in any case. As long he does not go back to breaking full backs' ankles again it's all good.
I think it's more the case of a top finisher making average crosses look great, van Persie and Hernandez did the same in 2012-13 when they pounced on any half decent ball in the box by Evra and Valencia.
It will happen right before he makes a silly winger-like mistake such as losing his man or being out of position when we concede a goal.
You mean like every defender does from time to time? Just like any midfielder doesn't see all the perfectly timed runs to put an attacker in one on one with the goalie or how strikers miss obvious chances. Everyone makes mistakes.
So if and more if. Xavi cross for Messi goal in CL gave no chance for Rio to recover. In this case, the defender is clearly terrible anticipating the cross but still very close to Fellaini (not close enough). A slightly better defender can pressure and force error from Fellaini (not out right win the duel). That's within the concept of defending.
Of course forward had to work, but how often forwards be able to pull off similar goal like Zlatan's opening one? I don't see that while often. Still maintain my opinion it's less than ideal and more like half chance being converted by the brilliance of forward (Zlatan).
You do know that a striker runs into the box and the winger/fullback crosses the ball into the box, so if the ball arrives behind the striker the odds of the striker mistiming his run ever so slightly is just as big as the winger crossing it behind him?
So when our strikers or attackers receive a cross from Valencia or Shaw they win because the defenders are inept? Whereas when Lewandowski or Suarez win headers inside the box it's because of their sheer brilliance?
Every goal could have been dealt differently, and for every good cross there are quite a few more bad ones. However, you also fail to mention all the dangerous crosses guys like Valencia put in that the attackers bottle. Therefore, I don't mind it when Ibrahimovic has to work a little harder to make a great goal out of an average cross. The cross was still there for a top striker to score, and guess what, we now have a great striker. There will be times when Valencia or any other wide attacker crosses the ball and Ibra flops it.
There must be an ideal fullback in an ideal world who puts all his crosses right on the feet of the striker, well away from interference from defenders. As Annie Lennox sang -Sweet dreams are made of this.
What's with this post?What did Shaw have to do with this?
Suarez: You meant these
Yes very good cross in my book (better than those for Fellaini and Zlatan). Defense got disorganized by the cross and Suarez was brilliant too.
Talked about these 2 specifically please. Yes Valencia had one of the best crossing show this game for like a very LNG time now. He can put in some good cross from time to time, but not as consistent in the last few years. Yet 2 of these were not quite high quality (my point).
No one is perfect. You're exaggerating.
Watch this
It shows Alves putting good cross in for fun and not necessarily result in goal. It also shows my point: good cross gives attacker an edge in duel despite the defender is taller and originally in better position (Alexis at 0:30).
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What did Shaw have to do with this?
Suarez: You meant these
Yes very good cross in my book (better than those for Fellaini and Zlatan). Defense got disorganized by the cross and Suarez was brilliant too.
Talked about these 2 specifically please. Yes Valencia had one of the best crossing show this game for like a very LNG time now. He can put in some good cross from time to time, but not as consistent in the last few years. Yet 2 of these were not quite high quality (my point).
No one is perfect. You're exaggerating.
Watch this
It shows Alves putting good cross in for fun and not necessarily result in goal. It also shows my point: good cross gives attacker an edge in duel despite the defender is taller and originally in better position (Alexis at 0:30).
Yes, show a Youtube compilation of any players' best moments and show them as proof of what they do on a regular basis.
My post only said that a cross into a dangerous area is something good attackers can score from.
Also, most importantly, why not praise the lad when he does well instead of complaining about the assists even.
Valencia's crosses were quite good. People need to realize that bulk of the crosses put in are simply put in an area that allows players to attack them. IF Valencia can keep this up he'll have loads of assists this season. He always has had lots of space down the right and I don't expect that to change with Mkhitaryan playing as a winger now. The Rooney to Valencia ball might actually be great and if Valencia can re-discover his crossing ability.
I hope we see more of the crossing of yesterday and less of the "I'm going to feck up your ankles by smacking the ball into them as hard as possible repeatedly" we've been subjected to for the last four seasons.
Consistently dangerous balls into the box would be a big improvement over what we've seen over the last several seasons. I wouldn't get too carried away on demanding perfection. No, he didn't put then on a dime, but those crosses obviously worked.
That's clearly a mistake by Rio, just before xavi crossed it, messi was fully marked by rio, then he left messi unmarked because he thought messi (who rarely score with his head) couldn't headed and messi might control it first. That was difficult finish from difficult angel by messi though.
I don't see any diffrence with valencia's cross to zlatan or fellaini, xavi saw messi was unmarked then he crossed, so did valencia. Every attacker has to produce brilliance finish when there are still any defender and goalie in front of him, unless it is an open goal.
He's a right back. He is no longer a winger. He should not be judged on how many assists he gets. If he gets some, then brilliant (and he should get some based on the positions he is taking up) but he is a defender first and foremost (and also as an attacking outlet - providing width, getting up and down the right flank, linking up play e.t.c.)
Think it's safe to say he's gonna be starting RB. Jose must like him, gave him the armband and he still doesn't speak a word of English.....
He can say 50-50I said he had the best game with his crosses for a long time. That's a praise. I am not bashing or undermine anyone here.
We was discuss about someone call Valencia is a good crosser which for quite few years he is not = different topic. He had been hitting full back's shin for years with very few a good cross. Now if he keeps this kind of performance up, he can be even back as right winger in occasion we need to keep width pin lace of Mickhi who often drift inside.
I don't disagree. Follow he chain quote I was discussing a different (sub)topic.
I can actually add that since someone like Zlatan can pull some amazing finish off a half chance, then full back/ defender will will find it harder to defend Valencia cross since now Valencia not necessarily cross in front of the first full back, he can cross behind them. Since Valencia crossing technique doesn't consistent produce deadly curve, after he lost that bit of acceleration he found it hard to cross in front of the first defender and often went for the shin killing drill.
It was Rio's marking error. My take was about the quality of the cross that "don't let Rio back in the duel at all" vs Valencia cross for Fellaini which the defender was still very close and a better one can of make up the ground and press Fellaini to force error.
Messi did brilliant to covert that cross, so did Fellaini (he failed some easier heading chance in other games while being out pressed). Messi's one is rated higher due to the importance, how short he is compared to the defenders and how rarely he scores a fantastic heading goal... Still this kind of heading technique is hard to pull off, so I would also give Fellaini some credit here.
So my original is within the discussion of someone say Valencia is a good crosser, which I disagree (in agreement with another poster). An average crosser in a good team, which can help brings out his best attributes can still deadly as attacking outlet. So if one doesn't use prime winger Valencia, one can use Uncle Paddy as example: he can put in good cross from time to time, but his best attributes are dribbling, coordinating with winger to overlap... so Evra could find enough space to square the ball for forward. Thing turned shit for him when Moyes asked him to consistently put in cross (including early cross) the way Baines does. If we play like second half of yesterday game often, then I won't be bothered to discuss about quality of cross since the game is entertaining and there are many positive to
about.
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Yes. It will be blamed on the fact that he isn't a fullback.
What a weird retort.
That is not simply not necessarily the case anymore. Of course there are teams who ask their full backs first and foremost to defend but there are plenty of others, successful ones, who look for attacking value from their full backs. Defending in the modern game is becoming more and more about the group. It is no longer a separate unit to many teams. We have to wait and see how Mourinho intends to play and sets us up and then we can judge if Valencia offers that.
He gets found out against teams with good attacking players. Home games where we dominate he's decent enough, acts as a good outlet on the right, almost like having a second winger, and allows whoever is playing RW to drift inside.
But against good attacking teams his lack of positional sense gets exploited.
But against good attacking teams his lack of positional sense gets exploited.
Do you have any examples of this. I seem to remember him completely shutting down City and Sterling, shutting down Arsenal and Sanchez, shoring up the defence everytime Darmian had to be yanked off at halftime. In fact, I can´t really remember one winger who has given him real problems, or when, like Darmian, he´s had to be pulled off because he was being exploited. So what are these times he´s been exploited by good attacking sides?
Off the top of my head there was the Wolfsburg game last year where I'm pretty sure he played everyone onside for one of the goals.
When we lost to Arsenal in the FA Cup in 2015 (I think) he didn't exactly cover himself in glory during both of Arsenal's goals, in fact wasn't one of them a back pass straight to Danny Welbeck? I'm sure others can think of more examples.
I like Valencia, don't get me wrong, he's been a great servant for the club, and he definitely has his moments as a RB, but you can't overlook the fact he's limited, especially defensively.
Also, Sterling and and Sanchez were a bit erratic form wise last season so that's maybe not the best marker to judge him by.
Agreed.
I think you're spot on. He gets exposed way too often and it helped that we played rather defensive under LVG. In addition to that, he was not good enough going forward to compensate for his defensive weaknesses. I think we either appreciate his game or we play someone else. Valencia will keep playing like that but I'd keep him in the squad for sure
A momentary lapse on a defensive trap (Darmian as well) hardly is evidence of being found out by good offensive sides. The match also against Arsenal with the poor back pass - LVG had called him our best player until then. It just seems posters pull these judgements out that really have no evidence. Have you ever seen him dominated by anyone, or any team? Seriously?
This is the thing for me... I've lost count of the number of times I have been hoping for the manager to haul the likes of Rojo or Darmian off at half-time because they've been struggling and are getting dominated by players from other teams. I cannot recall ever thinking that about Valencia.
Perhaps he's never been dominated as you say. He's an incredibly athletic and physically strong individual which certainly gives him an advantage in 1v1 situations.
It's more his ability to defend as part of a unit that worries me, or getting caught out by clever movement off the ball. I mean I know I'm being harsh, especially as he's spent most of his career as a winger, but these things could cost us at important moments in matches.
Maybe if Jose can finally get the defense settled then he'll be okay, we'll have to wait and see.
I've watched pretty much every game he's played some part in the last few seasons, and I wouldn't have developed this perspective of Valencia out of nowhere. I'm sure there are plenty who share it, and for the same reasons.
Reckon Jose will sort out his defensive deficiencies given how detailed his approach is in terms of organization. I'm honestly expecting him to have a big season at right back. In 1 v 1's he's as good as the come. He's too strong and quick to be done easily however he seems to get lost at times. Seemed like he hadn't gone through proper preparation for him to have his position switched like that. Offensively he always gives us good width, just needs to go back to what he was doing before he lost the plot these last few years. He's always strong on the ball so that isn't much of a problem. Him and shaw as our fullbacks is good enough imo, we not finding to many better right backs than him in the market at the moment anyways.
I just wish these arguments came with substance, direct evidence, video, or exact examples instead of the typical "I´ve watched and I know" generalities. Four managers have also "watched" him and keep insisting on him as well. He´s our third longest serving player and it´s for reason, and not because he´s a defensive liability or he has poor positioning or is dominated by attacking sides.
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