I don't get it. He doesn't provide anything going forward (infact you know the attack is dead when he's gets on the ball) and he's defensively suspect, his positioning is all over the place and he seems to panic when he's put under pressure, why is the man getting is much plaudits here? Rafael has his weaknesses (that of an atypical full back) but he also has strengths that far surpass that of Valencia.
25
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 35
- Clean sheets
- 12
- Goals
- 0
- Assists
- 5
- Yellow cards
- 4
I'm all for Valencia to carry on at right back. May not be a world class one, but he's effective and consistent. Seems to be working well on that right side with Mata and Herrera.
Fits into LvG gameplan of possession football. Always available for the ball on the right side. Looking at the way we played in the last two games, he seemed comfortable to let Herrera and Mata do all the work while providing options for them to play the one-two layoff.
still needs to work on his positioning to be considered a full-back. Taking on players has been improved a little recently but must use his pace more regular to beat defenders.
I consider him a valuable squad player and wouldn't sell him but I prefer Rafael as RB. Rafa's injury record means Tony will still play a lot.
I consider him a valuable squad player and wouldn't sell him but I prefer Rafael as RB. Rafa's injury record means Tony will still play a lot.
Even though he hasn't had the same spectacular improvement as Young has had under Van Gaal, i am really pleased with Valencia this season. He still might be the most one footed player in the world, but has been very solid at RB this season.
Although i sort of agree on your other points especially him not providing much going forward, i have to disagree with that bolded part.
He's actually really good in possession these days and rarely ever loses the ball, its probably why Van Gaal likes him so much. Granted he doesn't do anything spectacular with the ball when he gets it, he usually just plays it short back or inside.
But for all his limitations as a player these days i think we should give him credit for the things he does well, and keeping possession is probably his biggest strength.
Having a good season, his last few games he has been solid. I think the high pressing tactics and having players more creative in front of him have helped him make this position his own. Not to mention he's rarely injured.
But that's just it, a massive problem for us this season is possession for the sake of possession correct? Valencia does nothing with it and reverts to a short backwards/sideways pass almost every time he gets it. The team will be moving the ball and themselves to create a space and as soon as it goes to Valencia he takes his standard 17 touches, dwells on the ball and knocks it 4 yards, killing all prior work to create space for a chance.
Well yeah i'll be honest i haven't been as impressed with Valencia at RB this season as some seem to be, and when we were playing badly as a team he frustrated me with his attacking play.
But none of that changes the fact he is really good at keeping the ball and rarely ever panics and loses it. On sunday his ball retention proved useful when Liverpool were trying to press us, he was a good out ball for Smalling.
I'll give you that but he still isn't what I'd call composed on the ball, he freezes.
He is effective and consistent, rarely injured and links up well with whoever he is with on the right.
I still think we should get Coleman/Danilo as a starting RB next season but Valencia is a great backup for both RW and RB.
Well yeah sometimes he doesn't look that composed but that may be just his style he isn't the most graceful of players, which is probably at least in part down to his complete unwillingness to use his left foot for anything other than standing on.
I always laugh when I see posters saying Valencia is a percentage player who always looks for the safest option as if it was a bad thing. The truth is, those are two of the most important traits any good defender should possess. It's almost like talking footie with a young un who only looks for the compilation material bits of action and adores Kyle Walker because he scored a couple of screamers.
He does tend to be caught out defensively but nowhere near as often as he's made out to be. For example his positional awareness against Liverpool was considerably better than Blind's who's much more of a nominal full-back. My only qualm with his performance was that there were a couple of times where he should have take their defender and get the cross in when the intricate passing between him, Mata and Herrera created the space and cleared the double-marking.
He does tend to be caught out defensively but nowhere near as often as he's made out to be. For example his positional awareness against Liverpool was considerably better than Blind's who's much more of a nominal full-back. My only qualm with his performance was that there were a couple of times where he should have take their defender and get the cross in when the intricate passing between him, Mata and Herrera created the space and cleared the double-marking.
You'd be absolutely right if football was still being played in 1987. A full back is now as responsible (arguably more so) to contribute to attacks as he is at defending. Its the modern game.
You can contribute to the attack massively while still being a solid full-back in a Gary Neville mould and tbf Valencia doesn't take any credit for his one-twos and keeping possession. He's a good offensive outlet without the final ball but he now has others to do that. If he can improve his crossing, and it has somewhat improved which obviously wasn't hard, he will make a very good full-back.
He's been one of our most consistent performers this season and he has chipped in with 5 assists already and if he can get 2 or 3 till the end of the season it would have to be seen as a decent attacking output for a full-back.
I'm warming to Valencia remaining in his current role. He seems adaptable enough to settle in and become very good at this.
Exactly the point. There is a reason why different United managers tend to play him and are happy with his contribution.
No one in our squad, apart from possibly De Gea, who is a consistent as Valencia. I really wouldn't mind if he was our first choice right back next season.
Agreed. Having him and Rafa (if he stays) would be more than sufficient and would provide a bit of needed continuity.
You must be watching his play with a mindset that's he's an awful player, maybe that's why your insights of him are so way off?
I get that when he gets the ball he might stall a bit too much but saying he doesn't provide nothing going forward is plain wrong.
He's got plenty of assists this season, going past Moreno (nutmeg!) and pass to Rooney's goal at Old Trafford comes to mind.
Also it's notable that recently as he's got the ball in an attacking position, instead of running into a wall as the opposition floods the right flank, he has started cutting inside or trying a 1-2 pass with the other wide player.
And I think you should reconsider playing Mata or Di Maria with Rafael on the right flank, that'd be squeaky bum time x 2.
Yes, I will buy his shirt from the WBA home game
This especially for some of the football "experts" on here. I think I'll stickw ith Fergie, Moyes & Van Gaal's judgement (and my own) over theirs!
Model pro, is Valencia.
He's one of those consistent players. You know what you're going to get from him.
The question isn't about his contribution because no one can deny that. The question for me is whether we're happy with someone of his ability to be first choice right back for us? Valencia is never going to be world class at RB, IMO, which is understandable.
Personally, I'd prefer to have Valencia as a back up RB. But maybe he will be "van-Gaal'd" and prove me wrong by becoming a top RB.
He's one of those consistent players. You know what you're going to get from him.
The question isn't about his contribution because no one can deny that. The question for me is whether we're happy with someone of his ability to be first choice right back for us? Valencia is never going to be world class at RB, IMO, which is understandable.
Personally, I'd prefer to have Valencia as a back up RB. But maybe he will be "van-Gaal'd" and prove me wrong by becoming a top RB.
Absolutely. Without any doubt whatsoever.
Say Valencia is a new Van Gaal's full-back signing and has performed the way he has this season, would the general opinion be different on him? I believe it would. The fact that he had those 2 massacres of seasons and is a winger people tend to seek any unfull-back bits of play and even the slightest mistakes that in their eyes prove he's never a good idea to play there.
Blind (while still having a decent game) showed that cultured full-backs make mistakes as well and he made more positional mistakes against Liverpool than Valencia does in 5 games. Accept that. Times when we had the best players for each positions in the league are gone for the time-being but if you are to replace a couple of those with solid 7/10 players it's not the end of the world.
Blind (while still having a decent game) showed that cultured full-backs make mistakes as well and he made more positional mistakes against Liverpool than Valencia does in 5 games. Accept that. Times when we had the best players for each positions in the league are gone for the time-being but if you are to replace a couple of those with solid 7/10 players it's not the end of the world.
You can and should do both, Valencia doesn't. He's not a fullback and plays like a player who doesn't know how to play fullback. It appears after the last 2 average performances everyone has entirely forgotten how a fullback should play and how dire he had been all season. When did we start celebrating mediocrity? The fact he doesn't have the capacity to play great passes doesn't mean its a talent that he plays the simple pass, EVERYTIME. We might as well play another CB there and have done with it.
He isn't capable of doing anything other than what he is being asked, theres a big difference.
So what is this stuff about him being poor defensively? If somebody can be help me out with stats, I believe a bare minimum of attacks have come from his side of the pitch. Yes, offensively he'll not contribute as much as Rafael but defensive wise he is much better. Does not dive into rash tackles and haven't seen anybody beat him for speed. And assured in possession (barring the screw up against Arsenal).
He's doing a good job but Rafael is better in every way bar pace and strength and actually Rafael is quicker in shirt bursts. Although Rafael is very short and is targeted for headers at the far post which is a concern even though Rafael is good in the air for a little guy.
The amount if times Valencia links up nicely with his winger is usually 0. That's unacceptable.
Everything seems rosy now but for most of the season we hardly create anything and I think a big reason is that our fullbacks don't link well with our forwards, don't dribble enough and don't get in any crosses.
Young has been the best of the lot and Rafael has barely played despite being the most technically gifted fullback at the club by some distance.
It's a real shame about him being injury prone but that's a boring discussion now.
The amount if times Valencia links up nicely with his winger is usually 0. That's unacceptable.
Everything seems rosy now but for most of the season we hardly create anything and I think a big reason is that our fullbacks don't link well with our forwards, don't dribble enough and don't get in any crosses.
Young has been the best of the lot and Rafael has barely played despite being the most technically gifted fullback at the club by some distance.
It's a real shame about him being injury prone but that's a boring discussion now.
Rafael is an aggressive tackler but actually wins them and you rarely see him get dribbled past and he has shut down some of the world's top wingers.
Doesn't Valencia have good record of winning headers (both offensive and defensive)? His built gives him the added advantage. LvG must have seen something and thus not playing Rafael even while he is fit. If this continues, he may well be sold and United may get into the market for a new RB.
Oh and also looks like Valencia shall now be played as a RB only and not a winger anymore. His time as a winger may as well be over.
Only for LvG to play him as one in the next game.
Oh and also looks like Valencia shall now be played as a RB only and not a winger anymore. His time as a winger may as well be over.
Only for LvG to play him as one in the next game.
If he's fit, I think Rafael-Herrera-Mata would be a terror to deal with on the right. Their passing and movement would be beautiful.
Valencia is great. I really think he is one of our better players this season. He is a tank, fast, can mix it up, improves defensively. I dont see what people are expecting of him. It is unfair to say he offers nothing. He doesnt play as a RW, he is a RB and does his job defensively. Offensively he is always available and keeps posession. With a better defensive line next year and more confidence in the position, i can see him developing even better.
Absolutely agree with this. I don't mind him at RB at all.
I just wish he would learn to cross. He would become a very good right back.
Because of his bloody one footedness. All his markers do is show him on the right and he has to make a 180 turn just to get the ball on his favoured foot. This aspect of his game irritates me the most. There was a shining (not really) example of this during the Liverpool game when he got boxed in and he held it for ages before telling Rooney he should've come for the ball. The time he takes on the ball allows the opposition to reset and cover our other players moving off the ball.
There is no point it discussing it really.
clearly.Its simple, if Blind used the ball in the same manner as Valencia you'd crucify him for it because you know he's capable of more. Just because Valencia can't seem to pass more than 4 yards in a forward direction it doesn't mean doing nothing with the ball is acceptable. It also doesn't mean handing the ball to Welbeck or being woefully out of position and directly giving away 2 goals is acceptable either.
Mate you're fighting a lost cause on here and I do have a bit of sympathy for you because of that. Clearly, though, if 99% of posters on here, good portion of which were Valencia's ardent critics in the past, have the polar opposite of your opinion then perhaps it's the high time you think it over?
Its simple, if Blind used the ball in the same manner as Valencia you'd crucify him for it because you know he's capable of more. Just because Valencia can't seem to pass more than 4 yards in a forward direction it doesn't mean doing nothing with the ball is acceptable. It also doesn't mean handing the ball to Welbeck or being woefully out of position and directly giving away 2 goals is acceptable either.
And your argument that he 'doesn't do MORE than Van Gaal asks him to do' is laughable at best. He does what his managers want him to and they're happy with him. More importantly, Van Gaal is happy with him this season which counts for a little bit more than your irrational hatred towards Valencia and is a perfectly fine proof for the fact he's been having a decent season. Unless, of course, you think Van Gaal is a moron which I naively don't think you do.