[sincher]

Yeah, I see that point, but in the desperation we've had there it seems like it was clearly worth a shot from my POV.

Actually the XI picked at the weekend was the first time I actually broadly agreed with Van Gaal's selection for a game. We were lucky to win, though, fading badly at the end (and the subs were odd).

 

[The Red Thinker]

Valencia went off due to injury. Was stretchered off the pitch after everybody else left the field.

@Pogue Mahone No he didn't. He's perfectly fine.

 

[hurstafus]

@Pogue Mahone No he didn't. He's perfectly fine.

He definitely didn't walk off the pitch.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Hah! Look at Herrera in his suit. I bet he was head boy at his school.

 

[The Red Thinker]

He definitely didn't walk off the pitch.

If it was that serious, every journalist would be on the case. THere's absolutely nothing from anyone anywhere on Valencia being injured. You would think that someone would at least tweet about it but no.

And by logical thinking, if he had to be carried back to the dressing room, he's not going to be happy-smiley for a photo with Ander and the lads is he? He'll be on the treatment table, on the way to the hospital or even an ice bath.

No, I'm sorry this claim makes no sense.

 

[LeftyBlaster]

Thought he did fairly well today! The one footedness really irks me but he did well to contest the ball, passed it well at times and offered movement going forward.

 

[lem8sh]

I don’t think Fellaini won a tackle after he came on and Mata was a passenger so I would have preferred to see Valencia stay on, he did commit some fouls but he doesn’t have a track record of getting sent off so I think he would have been ok to see the game out, taking Mata off would have been a much better substitution.

Well Feillaini is as much use as a chocolate teapot so his "cameo" wasn't a surprise.

 

[soap]

I thought to myself during the game, "he's having such a good game in the centre it'd be so typical if he got the ball on the wing and put a good cross in for someone to score"... He got the ball on the wing a couple of times n did what he always does- smashed it into the defenders shins and put the second cross out for a throw

Agreed on what someone said above though, its a wonder Moyes never tried him there given his attributes, especially how poor we were in midfield

 

[Adam-Utd]

I've always said he could be a good box 2 box midfielder and got laughed at. He has every attribute needed to play there, apart from a hollywood long ball/killer through ball.

Certainly better there than as a winger though!

 

[ottosec]

He did good by his standards, but still not good enough.

I'm surprised to see so many people praise him for his performance, he has good workrate and he's strong tactically, but he can't pass or cross and has the creativity of a rock.

 

[Borys]

I've always said he could be a good box 2 box midfielder and got laughed at. He has every attribute needed to play there, apart from a hollywood long ball/killer through ball.

Certainly better there than as a winger though!

I would say the only attributes he has which are needed to play box to box role is his amazing strength and work rate. It was enough for Everton though and he was miles better than as a winger.

 

[soap]

I've always said he could be a good box 2 box midfielder and got laughed at. He has every attribute needed to play there, apart from a hollywood long ball/killer through ball.

Certainly better there than as a winger though!

I couldnt really see him working in that position in any other formation to be honest. Maybe in a 4-3-3 with the right winger being Di Maria Mata or Januzaj cutting in and Tony overlappinglike di maria... He certainly has the energy and pace for it but as we all know, he can't cross at all!

 

[bishblaize]

I've always said he could be a good box 2 box midfielder and got laughed at. He has every attribute needed to play there, apart from a hollywood long ball/killer through ball.

Certainly better there than as a winger though!

He still played very one sided though. He was just playing as an inside right rather than an outside right. He almost never got involved in central or left sided areas. I still think he'd struggle with his distribution from the left side.

 

[FromTheBench]

I would say the only attributes he has which are needed to play box to box role is his amazing strength and work rate. It was enough for Everton though and he was miles better than as a winger.

His first touch is pretty good actually on his right and ability to shield the ball and create space for himself which is actually crucial in midfield. His awareness of play around him is decent too.

Don't expect him to do anything that creative in midfield regularly as he doesn't have the passing or shooting range and his crossing has gone to shit too now as well but he'll be a good box to box player who would put himself about, intercept balls and just keep it simple. One few occasions he can carry the ball forward centrally in a Dembele/Wilshere/Toure sort of way too to speed up the attack in transition.

I couldnt really see him working in that position in any other formation to be honest. Maybe in a 4-3-3 with the right winger being Di Maria Mata or Januzaj cutting in and Tony overlappinglike di maria... He certainly has the energy and pace for it but as we all know, he can't cross at all!

He really doesn't need to cross that much as a CM tbf. I've seen him play central in few formations for Ecuador and he's done well. In the WC too against France he was playing a central role in a 3-5-2 changed to 4-3-3 IIRC and did well before getting sent off for that tackle.

 

[Getsme]

Just watched the game and kept a close eye on Valencia, he actually played really well, he took on players, passed it forward when he could and didn't shy away at all and his work rate was exceptional. I really hope LVG can get him back to playing how we know he can.

 

[soap]

He really doesn't need to cross that much as a CM tbf. I've seen him play central in few formations for Ecuador and he's done well. In the WC too against France he was playing a central role in a 3-5-2 changed to 4-3-3 IIRC and did well before getting sent off for that tackle.

Fair enough, I don't think I saw the France game. Hopefully we won't really have to worry too much about his ability in CM, the way injuries are going though...

 

[Dr Fink]

Valencia played better playing away from the wing. On the wing, he was his limited self. I was really impressed with him in the first 20 mins, when we were fizzing the ball around quickly. I think he's a standby player though, not in the best eleven.

 

[DanNistelrooy]

When he isn't required to create/provide crosses then he is fine. He does the simple things very well and is very good at keeping the ball. Well suited to the right hand side of the diamond IMO, apart from the silly freekicks. Think this change in formation could save his future at United

 

[red_7]

he was definately a lot better in that diamond, not yet good but did a job. Squad player at best but you need those as well. Won't start games without injuries any more.

 

[thepolice123]

The diamond formation is perfect for him because he have three other midfielders who can cover his major weaknesses and he can do all the scrub work which he is good at. We have never been a midfield orientated club under Fergie, playing Valencia in a two man midfield would have be pure suicidal.

I hope he can reinvent himself into a a decent midfielder for us. Like Di Maria he has the workrate and discipline to cover two different positions and he also gives us that added physical presence. Love the part when he manhandles Lukaku. Man's an animal.

His first touch is pretty good actually on his right and ability to shield the ball and create space for himself which is actually crucial in midfield. His awareness of play around him is decent too.

Don't expect him to do anything that creative in midfield regularly as he doesn't have the passing or shooting range and his crossing has gone to shit too now as well but he'll be a good box to box player who would put himself about, intercept balls and just keep it simple. One few occasions he can carry the ball forward centrally in a Dembele/Wilshere/Toure sort of way too to speed up the attack in transition.



He really doesn't need to cross that much as a CM tbf. I've seen him play central in few formations for Ecuador and he's done well. In the WC too against France he was playing a central role in a 3-5-2 changed to 4-3-3 IIRC and did well before getting sent off for that tackle.

 

[MoneyMay]

He did good by his standards, but still not good enough.

I'm surprised to see so many people praise him for his performance, he has good workrate and he's strong tactically, but he can't pass or cross and has the creativity of a rock.

Why shouldn't people praise Valencia's performances? Along with Rafael, he helped us control Everton's left flank and it was only when he went off that they looked better on said flank. It doesn't even start and stop there. He played a part in both goals - for the first goal, he holds off Pienaar which gives Rafael the space to cross the ball for our first goal. And for for our second goal, he used his body well to get past Naismith and before playing the right pass to Di María. Is his performance better than any of Herrera's in the diamond? No, but they don't need to be because as he's already shown, a 6/10 performance is what you you should expect from a squad player.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Put in a good shift. Better than I'd expect any of our other backup options in that position to play.

What I'd like to see him do is pass it quicker. Our team now is much more intelligent and quick in its passing. And he he has this ridiculous tendency of standing with it for a minute before he does whatever he ends up doing.

 

[Señor]

Thought he played well at the weekend in the diamond. It was certainly better than anything we've seen from him in recent years. Maybe we can Schweini him... On second thoughts, maybe not.

 

[caisenma]

Why shouldn't people praise Valencia's performances? Along with Rafael, he helped us control Everton's left flank and it was only when he went off that they looked better on said flank. It doesn't even start and stop there. He played a part in both goals - for the first goal, he holds off Pienaar which gives Rafael the space to cross the ball for our first goal. And for for our second goal, he used his body well to get past Naismith and before playing the right pass to Di María. Is his performance better than any of Herrera's in the diamond? No, but they don't need to be because as he's already shown, a 6/10 performance is what you you should expect from a squad player.

I honestly can't tell if that video is a joke... seriously. His "role" in the first two goals? Granted he made an average sideways pass for the second goal, but the first goal he literally did nothing. He didn't touch the ball, nor was he really anywhere near it.

 

[MoneyMay]

I honestly can't tell if that video is a joke... seriously. His "role" in the first two goals? Granted he made an average sideways pass for the second goal, but the first goal he literally did nothing. He didn't touch the ball, nor was he really anywhere near it.

The video isn't even analysis, it's just our two goals against Everton and Valencia contributed to both. I disagree that he did "nothing" for the first goal. That can only be said if you completely dismiss how we constructed our attack. He was near the ball in the build-up to our first goal, he blocked Pienaar from getting back and thus, Rafael had that extra bit of space to cross the ball in. Without that significant contribution, Rafael would have had far less space and he probably wouldn't have crossed the ball in. As for for the second goal, he made the best possible decision and this nonsense about sideways passes being given less importance (due to lack of context) needs to stop.

This is one of the few games in the last two years where he's made a positive contribution offensively and defensively, yet some are still finding a way to downplay his role. Obviously Valencia has been atrocious for two years now, but his last two performances give me hope that he can fulfil a role as a squad player for us.

Edit: I think bugmat has explained it well.

 

[bugmat]

I honestly can't tell if that video is a joke... seriously. His "role" in the first two goals? Granted he made an average sideways pass for the second goal, but the first goal he literally did nothing. He didn't touch the ball, nor was he really anywhere near it.

Fecking hell - Mata's pass to Di Maria was an "average sideways pass" also - it's when and where you make the pass that makes it "key" not just the difficulty level of executing it. The only "hard" pass in the whole game was Di Maria's mid-air reverse flick to falcao. If Valencia doesn't make that pass, ADM never gets the shooting opportunity adn Falcao's doesn't get to turn the shot in...

Haters are just so funny - anything at all will be used against the object of hate!

 

[caisenma]

Fecking hell - Mata's pass to Di Maria was an "average sideways pass" also - it's when and where you make the pass that makes it "key" not just the difficulty level of executing it. The only "hard" pass in the whole game was Di Maria's mid-air reverse flick to falcao. If Valencia doesn't make that pass, ADM never gets the shooting opportunity adn Falcao's doesn't get to turn the shot in...

Haters are just so funny - anything at all will be used against the object of hate!

Fair enough. When it comes to Valencia, I can come across as a troll. He's a United player, and despite my dismissive style, I don't hate him as much as I probably have indicated.

But regardless, I still stand by my point that it was an average performance and the main reason many people consider this to be exemplary is because he's set the bar so low in the past two years that any match where he doesn't shit the bed is considered an excellent outting. Again, that might not be fair to you, but to me it is.

 

[khoazany]

It was an average performance.Granted it's better than Valencia's normal performance but doesn't make it a good one.Good thing that we've found a better way to use him but I would still ship him out asap if there's any club interest.

 

[LeftyBlaster]

He definitely decent over the weekend but will more likely get get found out against the top teams for his one footedness and limited passing range.

 

[red_7]

no one wants to see him in the big games any more, but especially when returning to european football we all know the importance of squad players, a job he can do well. With our injury record we don't even need Europe to depend on those players and youth as well.

 

[Getsme]

I honestly can't tell if that video is a joke... seriously. His "role" in the first two goals? Granted he made an average sideways pass for the second goal, but the first goal he literally did nothing. He didn't touch the ball, nor was he really anywhere near it.

 

[caisenma]

Oh. Well that wins that then. Well played.

 

[Getsme]

Oh. Well that wins that then. Well played.

I think it summed up your post quite well.

 

[caisenma]

I think it summed up your post quite well.

This thread was titled "performances" in an extremely sarcastic manner up until a week ago because it was universally understood that Valencia simply wasn't good any more.

Forgive me for maintaining that same sentiment despite one slightly above average performance by his standards, against a team that is barely above relegation thus far.

Had Everton tied it up or even won, which they were entitled to (thanks De Gea), this thread would have read very differently after the match.

I might seem fickle, but at least I don't bounce around from one bandwagon of "he's shit" to "wow, we now have an excellent player on our hands" after every match, like many of us are prone to.

 

[Getsme]

This thread was titled "performances" in an extremely sarcastic manner up until a week ago because it was universally understood that Valencia simply wasn't good any more.

Forgive me for maintaining that same sentiment despite one slightly above average performance by his standards, against a team that is barely above relegation thus far.

Had Everton tied it up or even won, which they were entitled to (thanks De Gea), this thread would have read very differently after the match.

I might seem fickle, but at least I don't bounce around from one bandwagon of "he's shit" to "wow, we now have an excellent player on our hands" after every match, like many of us are prone to.

Ah get it now, we can't praise him for a good performance because we might be on some sort of bandwagon if we do, gotcha, Valencia is shit no matter what.
Let's just close our eyes and not observing anything positive he does, for example, if he has a good game, if he plays a part in any goal we score or indeed scores, even if plays well defensively we should just ignore it. He's shit. End off.
Everton are just above the relegation spots at the moment, however so were we only a few games ago, so you could say it was a mid table battle, thankfully for us we still managed to beat them even though we played the entire game with 10 men (obviously we can't count Valencia as a player)

 

[Dunk]

He did well against Everton and that's that.

 

[MTR]

@Pogue Mahone No he didn't. He's perfectly fine.

Someone has to tell Woodward that Rojo has still some free advertising space on his stomach and calfs.

 

[Kag]

Valencia had a good game. I've hated the player he's become over the past two seasons but let's be objective here. If Herrera gets injured and he can come in and do a job like that every game then, in most games, he'll be more than acceptable. Of course, he has no place in our line up as a winger.

 

[Dante]

Ah get it now, we can't praise him for a good performance because we might be on some sort of bandwagon if we do, gotcha, Valencia is shit no matter what.
Let's just close our eyes and not observing anything positive he does, for example, if he has a good game, if he plays a part in any goal we score or indeed scores, even if plays well defensively we should just ignore it. He's shit. End off.
Everton are just above the relegation spots at the moment, however so were we only a few games ago, so you could say it was a mid table battle, thankfully for us we still managed to beat them even though we played the entire game with 10 men (obviously we can't count Valencia as a player)

Preach on, brother!

This tendency to defend old opinions to the bitter end is the worst thing about the football forums.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Preach on, brother!

This tendency to defend old opinions to the bitter end is the worst thing about the football forums.

It's really strange.

I'm as bad as the next caftard when it comes to having some players I criticise more than others. When they play bad I'm probably quicker to make a critical post than I would be about a player who I think is usually solid but just had a bad day. However, it blows my mind the way some people insist on sticking the boot into certain players even after a game in which they've actually played reasonably well. Makes me wonder what game they've actually been watching. If nothing else, it makes them looke really clueless, so why would anyone want to do that?