The experts on here who think differently will be disappointed.
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The experts on here who think differently will be disappointed.
You do a good job if arguing with things I haven't said. If it isn't using the opinions of others posters about other players to argue with me, then it's this silly notion I have in some way argued my opinion to be fact. Strange stuff.
What do you think being 'proven' is based on? Things he hasn't experienced? And what is it that he has proven, specifically? So far, he most certainly hasn't proven he's good enough. Which is a fact, apparently...
Shoots on both feet, can head the ball, doesn't fall over with a slight breeze and his movement is more dangerous.
He has a very similar speed and a better threat 1v1.
The one thing James has on him right now is being a good presser and a dancer.
I think Elanga has a lot more potential than James but needs a loan.
James will be more useful this year, but only because how raw Elanga is.
James will be more useful this year, but only because how raw Elanga is.
To be fair you are yet to explain what Dan James is better at. It's not hard to list his better qualities for a fair and balanced debate.
Better be careful with the over hype. He had an easy 1v 1 and lost his composure.
Let’s be patient with him. He’ll make mistakes as will all youngsters but he has talent.
I've lost count of the times Rashford has done that over the years and it hasn't hurt him too much.
Elanga is playing himself into a first team spot this pre season.
Was literally his first kick of the game, obviously it was a mistake but not the biggest in the world.
The fact is though he managed to get into those positions regularly, when was the last time you saw James running clean through on goal?
I don't want to turn this into a James hate post but the limitations are very obvious. If we can get Leeds to give us anything over £20m we should snap their hands off.
It seems Ole likes Elanga a lot from his recent comments, I think he will get a chance for the first few weeks until Rashford and Sancho are up and running.
As i was saying in the Shoritere thread you just dont know who will make it. Mctominah you could argue has made it and he never really stood out. Then Ravel Morrison had everything bar the attitude.
Going by statistics, three, or four if we are lucky, will make it. I remember when Tyler Blackett was looking good and he faded into obscurity.
Going by statistics, three, or four if we are lucky, will make it. I remember when Tyler Blackett was looking good and he faded into obscurity.
I think Amad will definitely make it here. He has the x-factor.
And I think 2 out of Elanga, Shoretire, Mjebri and Pellistri will make it here. My money is on Shoretire and Mjebri. I think Pellistri would end up in Spain/Italy and Elanga would be a PL player. You never know though.
Sancho, Bruno, Haaland, Rashford, Greenwood, Amad, Mjebri and Shoretire would be a great options for our attacking positions. In a ideal world ofcourse.
And I think 2 out of Elanga, Shoretire, Mjebri and Pellistri will make it here. My money is on Shoretire and Mjebri. I think Pellistri would end up in Spain/Italy and Elanga would be a PL player. You never know though.
Sancho, Bruno, Haaland, Rashford, Greenwood, Amad, Mjebri and Shoretire would be a great options for our attacking positions. In a ideal world ofcourse.
It will be interesting for sure to see who makes it and who is let go.
See I don't understand statements like this because it implies James is some sure thing that is more polished, when in reality he's a one trick pony that runs a lot and makes awful decisions which is something I think many of our youngsters can replicate.
Ravel Morrison was very much an outlier for me. There tends to be players that look promising and those that look every bit a top level footballer (like Greenwood). Ravel Morrison is the only one that I can think of that I was sure would make it and never did. Mejbri and Diallo appear the only two definitively in the latter group, with Shoretire, Pellistri and Elanga on the cusp of it.
I dont watch them enough to know. What about that Hugill fella? Or any defenders coming through?
James is an experienced international.
He’s more polished because he’s been playing at a higher level for 2 years. Elanga is clearly more talented but isn’t there yet.
It’s also ignorant to say many of our youngsters could replicate what James does. In comparison they’d all get caught out tactically regularly.
So was Shola ameobi, Elanga could give us more than James
He can’t really give less the bar is set so low, almost a free hit for Ole to give him James’s game time
I would take what a coach says about a player with a pinch of salt or did you believe Ole when he said Donny "played really well" after one of his stinker performances?
If Ole is keeping him around with the intention of giving him proper minutes I'm all for it. I'm just a doubtful he'll play him ahead of James and Martial.
I wouldn't be suprised if he's just trying to make him feel wanted and Elanga will play in the U23s and be our injury crisis backup while others go on loan and James/Martial/Mata get the cup games.
I'd love to be wrong.
And this isnt a dig at Ole, mind. Good coaches need to do this type of stuff.
Edit: didn't Ole last season say something like he could see a midfield of Bruno Pogba and VDB?
Daniel James has a combination of top speed and stamina that is exceptional, probably best in the premier league. That’s huge for a a winger, and Elanga is nowhere near on that account. James also has better defensive positioning for a winger, and better crosses from the left. Remember that Saka, Trippier and Foden played more for the Euro finalists than Sancho, and ask Southgate if he might have picked James or Elanga as the last man in a squad.
I agreed with what you said until you mentioned Southgate - I couldn’t care less what his opinion is.
But James isn't going to be starting that many games for us, so how important can stamina really be in his case?
For the role James and/or Elanga might have this season you're looking at who gives us the biggest impact as a sub in the last 30 mins of a game.
I don't think its clear cut at this stage but I'd probably go for Elanga. Feels like he's got more goals in him.
Oh yeah, I agree here. James needs space to be effective. For that to be the case, we'd need to have a lead, effectively making him a luxury sub.
To start in a big game, I'd still go with James for now (if he's around and hasn't been sold)
Not mad at all if he stays, my favourite players from our youth. Especially now that Rashford's out for the opening months there's no harm of keeping him till Jan.
If James could in anyway capitalize on being fast and fit, then he would have more than 10 goals in his entire club career. It's all well having physical attributes, but he has played over 100 first team games and has so fast been medicre, to say the least. Besides, Elanga 'nowhere near' James in terms of pace? Preposterous.
And Southgate has been roundly criticized for his ineffective handling of the best attacking players in the entire Euros. Conversely, United had been prepared to spend £75m on Sancho while James can't hold even hold down a starting berth in the team. When it comes to the most successful team in English football and Southgate and the perennial underachievers, I know who I'd back.
There’s something extremely exciting about him. Looks a class above other kids to me. I think he will have a very bright future ahead.
Let the kid develop in the men's game and learn the trade. Dan James has been played too much because of injuries and lack of depth. Now he's permanently depth with Sancho, Martial, Greenwood, and Rashford.
He needs a loan move. 19 and getting a handful of minutes here and there isn't going to help his development because he's not going to be playing against pre season squads for minutes at a time. Has loads to learn at senior level, most importantly he has time on his side.
He needs a loan move. 19 and getting a handful of minutes here and there isn't going to help his development because he's not going to be playing against pre season squads for minutes at a time. Has loads to learn at senior level, most importantly he has time on his side.
So, 'experience' then?
Yes, he has proven he isn't good enough for us. That's abundantly clear. James has produced very little in the ~50 games he has played for the club. I'm very confident if you give his minutes to Elanga we'd see more.
I mean, it's great and all that you're having to conflate my opinion of a player with that of the caf in order to make your point, but please do try and keep it separate.
Haha...
exact response as predicted.I felt Elanga did very good. But I think we can trust the coaches on this one. Clearly Ole is a fan.
This Antho reminds me of a Swedish Kanchelskis
He's progressing and becoming a powered-up Anthony Martial 2.0!
That is high praise!
Think a loan would do well for us. James does have limitations but Bielsa could help him I believe. We should start building a relationship and loan a couple of our youngsters there imo.
Didn’t we all expect to see the same midfield? Hindsight eh?I would take what a coach says about a player with a pinch of salt or did you believe Ole when he said Donny "played really well" after one of his stinker performances?
If Ole is keeping him around with the intention of giving him proper minutes I'm all for it. I'm just a doubtful he'll play him ahead of James and Martial.
I wouldn't be suprised if he's just trying to make him feel wanted and Elanga will play in the U23s and be our injury crisis backup while others go on loan and James/Martial/Mata get the cup games.
I'd love to be wrong.
And this isnt a dig at Ole, mind. Good coaches need to do this type of stuff.
Edit: didn't Ole last season say something like he could see a midfield of Bruno Pogba and VDB?
I wasn’t weighing in on wether James or Elanga should play, I was answering a poster who could not see anything James was better at …
If you ask me who is most useful short term for United, I’d say James still, and by a margin. If you ask me who I’d go for in the squad if I had to chose, it’s harder. The upside is more exciting with Elanga.
If you read the post, you see that I answered someone who couldn’t fathom anything James was better at. My answer was that he is better (by far) at the combination of top speed and stamina. Some players have great top speed (i.e. Elanga), some have great stamina, but to be in the top percentile at both is seldom, and it’s more useful than the sum of it’s parts. For a team that wants to sometimes counter/sometimes press high, it’s like having an extra defender/extra attacker.
Calling Southgate’s England ‘ ‘underachievers’ smacks of the old English entitlement story (I don’t know if you’re English, but quite a few people also outside England seems to buy into it). That eas not the point here, though. The point was that Southgate is an example of one who would eaisily, and rightly, recognize some of the strengths James have over Elanga, and that the poster in question seemingly couldn’t recognize.
It's a pity then, that he has so far been utterly unable to put to good use this rare gift. You would think one of the fittest, fastest players in the league would be able to get in behind the defense on the odd occasion, or beat his man every so often. He took 11 players on in the league all season btw, terrible. So we have a rapid winger that can't get in behind, rarely takes his man on, doesn't score or assist very often.
No I was calling England perennial underachievers, though it would still have nothing to do with entitlement. You can willfully ignore the world class talent in the squad, or the remarkably easy draws England has got in the last two tournaments if you like. Again Southgate was, rightly criticized for his poor use of attacking players. It says a lot when England's fiercest rivals are vocal in their bafflement that he was ignore all the goal scorers and creators he had at his disposal, particularly when England were struggling to create or score. Less shots on target than North Macedonia after 3 games I think. This is also the manager who decided to select Trippier over Shaw at left back. Was he one of the managers who easily and rightly identified the strengths Trippier has over Shaw? Or was it yet another poor decision?
So he could have scored more than 1 goal, he probably should have. He had good chances to do that. But he was easily our most dangerous player, made good runs behind the defence, drew lots of fouls by running at players, had good short passing linkup play and even in the last 10-20 mins where he was being played as a leftback, he still bust his lungs to get forward and make runs behind the defence and was our most dangerous player in attack. One time being free but not found by a through pass and in the end moments of the game a run down the left wing and a ball into the box. So good stamina and workrate to go with his speed, dribbling and a good left footed goal
I’m not really interested in a discussion about Danny James’ value to Man United with you, you seem to have your mind made up and looking for someone to argue with. I’’m not a part of that discussion.
Likewise with Southgate. I made another point altogether, and you seem to use the occasion to take another round of a debate that’s been going in circles for a month, and where you seem equally decided. Be my guest, but I’m not going into that loop, least of all in an Elanga thread.
I’m very interested in his development, he’s an exciting prospect. It won’t do him any favours to be hailed as better than he is, nor to be used as a stick to beat teammates with. On wether he should go on loan or stay, I’m undecided what I hope for. I don’t expect him to be picked ahead of James too often on the occasions when Rashford, Sancho, Martial are out of contention for his place, so in that respect, maybe a loan would do him - and us - good. I like him getting at the end of chances though. If he starts nailing them more often as well, he might force his way up the ladder, and what would be better?
Jesus christ. When players are hailed as the new Xavi or Messi or something yeah that doesnt help them at all. So much pressure.
When its said that they're better than Daniel James because in the past 4 or 5 matches he's been better than Daniel James, thats not going to hurt him one bit. James hasnt proven that much. He isnt a high bar to beat
I don’t know about Jesus Christ, but I think you probably missed the context of what I was saying.
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