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Mate mate mate mate mate mate mate mate mate mate
Ange Postecoglou | New Spurs boss on 4 year contract
- Thread starter MayosNoun
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
This is one of the laziest critiques in the English game, and it always is aimed at managers who dare to not "know their place and play 2 banks of four", because managers who do play more "pragmatically" (another cursed word signifying more cliches coming behind it) don't get the same level of flack despite the results. Look at the deference provided to Dyche for example.
Not aimed at you specifically, @SilentWitness.
Anyways, he'll most likely be forced out soon.
Not sure why people are talking about him being sacked. This has always been the level of Spurs, no?
Dyche plays far too closed. There is a balance to be met and neither manager reaches it. Ange sets up Spurs to be carved open with ease.
Mate. They haven't finished 10th or lower since 2008, mate.
In my mind, Spurs' level is being top 8 consistently and sometimes flirting with top 4.
They've conceded 35 goals in the PL. In comparison, Villa have conceded 34, Brighton have conceded 30, Brentford have conceded 39.
But let's say for the sake of argument, he plays too open and is on the opposite end of the spectrum from Dyche. Compare the rhetoric on here and in the media regarding Ange to the equivalent regarding Dyche before his sack.
Their xGA is worse than Villa and Brighton. Aside from Brentford the only teams with worse xGA are those beneath them in the league table.
Plus you just need the eye test. Yesterday they gave up so many chances to us, not only due to openness in play but the high line.
Dyche gets far too easy a ride by the media and the neutral fan.
EDIT: West Ham have a worse xGA too, didn't realise how bad Spurs have been!
You'd think more of you would have sympathy for Postecoglou because him insistently playing that high line despite it not working is spiritually the same thing as you putting 'mate' in every post about him expecting it to become funny eventually.
...mate?
I knew I was gonna walk into that one but that's my posting style and I'm not prepared to change it even if it means being embarrassed by Everton
top work.He's really been shafted by the injuries to his defenders, and in conjunction by having the lack of decent cover for them. Of course that doesn't excuse his lack of flexibility and adjustment.
My concern if I was a Spurs fan is that by the time their defenders get back, the rut might well have truly set in. Confidence will become lower, belief in the manager and tactics fall and it's difficult to pull yourself out of that negative spiral.
My concern if I was a Spurs fan is that by the time their defenders get back, the rut might well have truly set in. Confidence will become lower, belief in the manager and tactics fall and it's difficult to pull yourself out of that negative spiral.
Gosh I feel sorry for any team that ends up like that !
The concern actually is that it's just chaff and flares. We were just as shite, results-wise, when VdV and Romero were fit.
This is very similar to the end of the Pochettino era, in a way. That is, his PPG and so-on is inflated by the first few months of his reign. Over the entirety of 2024, we're still 9th in the table, equal with United who - by all means - had a significant amount of apathy towards 10H, who was expected to be sacked for most of that year. [granted Amorim also shares some of that form, but still]
I say similar to Poch - people go on about how he was "sacked after a CL final", but totally ignore that the league form was bottom-3 for like 30-odd games, split over the end of one season and the start of another.
In some positives, you could say that the football is brave and has signs of clicking - but I feel like we've seen the same thing from Kompany's Burnley or Parker/Warnock's teams in the PL - but all of them got relegated. I don't think it is suited at all to this league
I honestly can’t believe people are believing his injury excuses. They have been really bad and lost so many games for over a year now.
His setup doesn’t work at this level. Spurs have a good side with some really good young players. This mess is his doing.
His setup doesn’t work at this level. Spurs have a good side with some really good young players. This mess is his doing.
I said it in an earlier post but he's dining out on his early spell at Spurs.
It was the same when Bielsa's Leeds got promoted and everyone was queuing up to shower them with praise because of their bombastic style.
However, the light that shines the brightest fades the quickest.
Yeah, it’s strange it’s clouded peoples’ judgement for so long, now that any sort of form was so long ago.
I suppose it’s that early phase together with the desire to attack that makes people more sympathetic, but he has been genuinely terrible, and takes zero responsibility.
Over a year? They finished 5th last season.
Why isn't their injury crisis believable?
There's room for him to do better with the current squad and man management is part of that so if he's lost the dressing room he'll need to go, but the bolded is exactly what I'm talking about. What is English football's problem with football that leans more towards proactive than reactive, and why exactly does it "not work at this level"? It literally worked last season
Someone pass the bucket please
Yes but they were at the top of the table and being talked up as possible title contenders halfway through last season. Their form fell away badly post Christmas and it has now been 12 months since they have looked good with any consistency. They are basically us, flattering in big games against City and the like and being pumped by everyone else.
If you took results from January 1st 2024 until now in the league and put it into a table, Spurs would be in 13th.
They started really well but since then they really haven't been great at all and scraped that 5th place.
They started really well but since then they really haven't been great at all and scraped that 5th place.
After the 8 wins and being unbeaten in his first 10 league games last season(new manager bounce), they've only won 12 out of the remaining 28 matches. That's midtable form. They've only finished that high because us, Newcastle and Chelsea were all somehow worse than them. And you already know where they are this season.
They were top of the table at Christmas last season? Or were they 4th, literally one place above where they ended up? Which you probably shouldn't have been shocked by considering that City were the team on 5th.
Were you just as shit with them fit?
Don't get me wrong, you weren't consistent, it wasn't ever going to be title contending form, but theres form that has you 7th in the table after game week 8, and theres form that has you 15th in the table after game week 22, those aren't quite the same things.
Such expectations were silly. They over performed beginning of the season and overall, they finished close to what you'd expect of a team with their quality
Would it have been better if he underperformed beginning of that season and finished strongly?
You'd expect each and every one of those teams based on spending to finish ahead of Tottenham last season. Add Villa, Arsenal, City and Liverpool, and the reality is stark as to what they're up against.
I don't expect them to be 15th in the table (it's tight down there (phrasing) so a lot can change under him or a new coach) but what is the realistic target for Tottenham? Top 8 with an occasional top 4 finish is what I place them at with their current squad.
If you took results from January 1st 2024 until now they would be 13th in the table.
He's definitely underperformed. Quite badly after seeing that.
How are you calculating this if you don't mind me asking?
Yea, but if you take away their new manager bounce, their form for over an year isn't even top 8. It's 13th or 14th.
And it's not like Tottenham spent bobbins compared to the rest. They have highest net spend of anyone in the league since Ange joined. Any dealings this winter window might change things but they have certainly backed him the most compared to their recent managers.
https://www.transfermarkt.us/highes...hould-spurs-expectations-be-/view/news/440038
Transfermarkt has calendar tables. For the first part of 2024 and latter part of 2024 there will be different teams involved (the 3 up and 3 down) but it still indicates that Spurs have been naff.
They should ride it out and stick with him. Like us they’re a mess and need a rebuild.
You know what I mean. If you truly believe that their early performances weren't down to a new manager bounce, and that what followed in the year since those first 10 games is just a blip and not reflective of their true form under him, then fair enough I guess.And where are they if you take away all their wins as well?
Hmmm, I'm seeing 9th for calendar year 2024
https://www.transfermarkt.com/premier-league/jahrestabelle/wettbewerb/GB1/saison_id/2024
Not that it's much better than 13th. My key takeaway from this table is that in 2024, there are 4 clubs leading the pack, then there's Newcastle, then there is this group of wanna be top 4 clubs of which Tottenham is one, along with Villa and Fulham and Bournemouth. Not that horrific.
I believe that you're only as good as your last few games in this league so if he doesn't turn it around soon he's gone and he won't have any complaints.
Yeah, I said until now. Spurs have picked up 0 points so far this year (2025) but other clubs below them have which pushes them from 9th down to 13th.
Eh, I don't believe strongly in new manager bounces, but I get what you mean. He's been ok, overall.
Ah, gotcha.
Comes down to whether he can turn things around in the next few games.
Pretty much but it looks like it's getting worse rather than better!
Out of interest, what would the annual table look like just up to the point they lost Van de Ven I think up to Match day 8?
Never thought he'd survive Monday tbh!
Wouldn't be surprised if he's still got the players behind him and that being the main reason he's still in a job.
Wouldn't be surprised if he's still got the players behind him and that being the main reason he's still in a job.
Pretty much, yes. Fans had daggers out for Romero all season, and then get wistful when he's been out injured, but it's been pretty much the same story.
The form table is only relative to other teams, so you have the likes of Chelsea, Villa, and Brighton who started off just as strong, but are worse now. So it's the velocity of that form that speaks volumes IMO.
The general theme has been:
- Lose by 1 goal margin, or;
- Win by 3+ goals
It really reminds me of the 'Arry days, when I never really knew if we were going to thump Wigan 9-1, or get battered 4-2 by Burnley or Bolton. The key difference is that Redknapp knew how to fully utilise his squad. Our fans moan about the 'quality' of what we have, but the next minute - after a good game - identify 15 players in the team that are top class. Ange just doesn't seem to know how to rotate and is very much like Pochettino where he plays the same players until they are totally crocked, then blames the club staff for it.
For example:
- Barely played Spence until he had no choice - and yet he's been superb
- Will refuse to play Reguillion unless he has no other option - and yet he's been solid when called on (despite lack of matches)
- Refused to rotate Romero and Van der Ven - resulting in them being crocked straight away by being rushed back - even though Grey has been mostly solid, as an 18 year old out of position, and Dragusin was bought for that same task.
- Refused to rotate Solanke, even though there's the lines of Son, Kulusevski, Lankshear all capable of playing there - and loaned out the likes of Veliz - resulting in Solanke now being injured
Again, we have fans blaming the club for squad depth even though you can only register 25 players - and some of them (incl Spence) are not in the Europa squad because we have no room. It's just absurd that people think we can just sign 3 or 4 players that are first team quality without having 3 or 4 that are redundant because they aren't registered.
That is fickle football fans though - they blame the club for not having quality, even though you have players like Son who we know are CL final level quality, and don't think "Hmm.. why are they playing badly all of a sudden? Is it because our tactic involves every outfield player sprinting a marathon every match?"
Good response mate, made some very good points there.
So where are you personally with Ange, would you like to see a change?