Ange Postecoglou | New Spurs boss on 4 year contract

mathrait said:
How are we defining improved? They're sitting in the same place as they were this time last year after 21 games (5th) and are only 4 points better off. Even though they lost Kane, you would still expect them to do something given they spent 270 mn in the last 6 months.

In terms of injuries, you could argue City would've been further ahead if it hadn't been for De Bruyne and Rodri missing games. You could argue Arsenal would've been better off if Partey and Timber weren't missing and we hadn't lost Odegaard, Jesus, Tomi for parts of the season. Every team has injuries, they're at least in a better position as they don't have play European football.
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Idk about the bolded bit, Arteta has spent £657.7m throughout his time at arsenal and barely has anything to show for it while it took him years for the team to actually start competing for CL places, not as easy as spending the money and seeing the results come to fruition.
 
mathrait said:
How are we defining improved? They're sitting in the same place as they were this time last year after 21 games (5th) and are only 4 points better off. Even though they lost Kane, you would still expect them to do something given they spent 270 mn in the last 6 months.

In terms of injuries, you could argue City would've been further ahead if it hadn't been for De Bruyne and Rodri missing games. You could argue Arsenal would've been better off if Partey and Timber weren't missing and we hadn't lost Odegaard, Jesus, Tomi for parts of the season. Every team has injuries, they're at least in a better position as they don't have play European football.
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They have lost Kane, the best striker in the world, and have been hit hard by injuries. Yet they are in the same spot and we are much worse than last season. Look at Richarlison last season compared to this.
You have had injuries but not more than Spurs, yet you look much worse.
I dont know why people are so affraid to give Ange some credit.
 
Ali Dia said:
With their best team they’d have turned us over.
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Disagree, we conceded possession to them as part of the game plan and they had their best defenders and we created plenty of chances. They didn't create a lot but we also had key defensive players missing in Martinez, Casemiro and Shaw. The narrative around players missing is silly
 
Josh 76 said:
With their best team, they would be top.
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They would be at best couple of points better than they are , even their best team isn't that good to be honest they simply aren't talented enough to sustain a title challenge .
 
The Corinthian said:
He’s done a good job so far in the Prem but I don’t get the fawning over him.

I don’t think Spurs were that good today - just a lot better at the basics ie having a cohesive midfield and being better at set plays. We still managed to get in and around their box with relative ease and maybe would have been more threatening if Rashers had last season’s form.
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The fawning over him is rooted in the disillusionment with our manager. Ange has them pressing better than us in a couple of months. And Spurs are playing the kind of football I expected we would be playing under Ten Hag. Instead, we are playing a worse version of Oleball, which was already bad enough.

As for Ange himself, I don't know if he will be a success, whatever that means by Spurs standards. I think his football is very demanding, so unless they invest smartly into his vision chances are they won't win anything either. I don't think they will, win anything that is, but it's still pretty impressive what he has done, because Spurs were horrific last season.
 
He’s undoubtedly had a massive effect on their play in a short space of time, but there’s something weird about his reputation seemingly increasing on the back of a draw against a team everyone agrees is shit and has a shit manager (possibly the worst in the history of the game!), where most of their dangerous attacks came from corners and with them being an awful miss in the 93rd minute away from losing.

Just goes to show that once a narrative is set by the media then there’s no stopping it.
 
Anustart89 said:
He’s undoubtedly had a massive effect on their play in a short space of time, but there’s something weird about his reputation seemingly increasing on the back of a draw against a team everyone agrees is shit and has a shit manager (possibly the worst in the history of the game!), where most of their dangerous attacks came from corners and with them being an awful miss in the 93rd minute away from losing.

Just goes to show that once a narrative is set by the media then there’s no stopping it.
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Don't forget the injuries mate, you can't forget that
 
Cassidy said:
Don't forget the injuries mate, you can't forget that
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Wierd posts. they have been great to watch this season, even with injuries. Played well in most matches they lost and several of those missed hatful of chances. They dominated the ball against us at home yesterday. What is the point here? He has transformed a notoriously weak and unpredictable team in a matter of months, having lost their best player, and playing attacking, expansive football in the process. Rather than weak snide comments about Spurs why not focus on our shortcomings
 
Gordon Godot said:
Wierd posts. they have been great to watch this season, even with injuries. Played well in most matches they lost and several of those missed hatful of chances. They dominated the ball against us at home yesterday. What is the point here? He has transformed a notoriously weak and unpredictable team in a matter of months, having lost their best player, and playing attacking, expansive football in the process. Rather than weak snide comments about Spurs why not focus on our shortcomings
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If you understand the game you would know that United setup for them to do so, in order to exploit their high line.
 
Cassidy said:
If you understand the game you would know that United setup for them to do so, in order to exploit their high line.
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No serious team would use that tactic, and that’s the issue.
 
BluesJr said:
The copium is unreal.
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Not really. I have my issues with United and ETH, but the fact is alot of top teams have used the same tactic in games so its again not true
 
Cassidy said:
If you understand the game you would know that United setup for them to do so, in order to exploit their high line.
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Hi there matey, what a sh*te post. I didn't watch the game due to a family commitment, but stats show we were dominated in possession and shots. That's what £400m and 18 months into a project gets you. Your post seemed to supporting a post having a dig at Ange. He's a million years from the answer but I would much rather he was managing United than ETH. At least we'd be entertained with good football. People seem to have forgotten what this club is about. And where exactly did setting up to take advantage of their high line get us? Ole used to be slated for that small club approach
 
Gordon Godot said:
Hi there matey, what a sh*te post. I didn't watch the game due to a family commitment, but stats show we were dominated in possession and shots. That's what £400m and 18 months into a project gets you. Your post seemed to supporting a post having a dig at Ange. He's a million years from the answer but I would much rather he was managing United than ETH. At least we'd be entertained with good football. People seem to have forgotten what this club is about. And where exactly did setting up to take advantage of their high line get us? Ole used to be slated for that small club approach
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You should not have bothered replying.
No I didn't have a dig at Ange, I'm having a dig at the narrative around the game
 
Shane88 said:
How long before he turns into a dickhead?

Because right now he is the most likeable sod in the league.
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He’s just a decent guy, you can see that as clear as day. Hard to dislike that.
 
crossy1686 said:
The 'flavour of the month' chat has all but disappeared now people have realised he's a better manager than Ten Hag.
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Ten hags cult was doing cart wheels a few weeks ago when Spurs were going through a spell. He has implemented his style and we still look like we are on day 1.
 
crossy1686 said:
The 'flavour of the month' chat has all but disappeared now people have realised he's a better manager than Ten Hag.
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The Eddie Howe crew have moved onto Ange, who will it be next season?
 
flappyjay said:
Ten hags cult was doing cart wheels a few weeks ago when Spurs were going through a spell. He has implemented his style and we still look like we are on day 1.
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My cousin was doing the same. People waited literally over 10 PL games into the season so they could say 'told you he was shit' when Spurs lost their entire defence and lost a couple of games. They've got the same amount of injuries as us yet they still look like a team that has a style of play.
 
crossy1686 said:
The 'flavour of the month' chat has all but disappeared now people have realised he's a better manager than Ten Hag.
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Yup.
First it was De Zerbi, then Howe then Ange. Gone quiet on De Zerbi though. Brighton thread doesn’t get bumped as much. I think the Howe thread will be active with Newcastle in poor form. It’s a great coping mechanism for them.
 
Ludens the Red said:
Yup.
First it was De Zerbi, then Howe then Ange. Gone quiet on De Zerbi though. Brighton thread doesn’t get bumped as much. I think the Howe thread will be active with Newcastle in poor form. It’s a great coping mechanism for them.
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This whole thing is a bit silly, Spurs will end up lower than where United were last season (whilst everyone was praising ETH by the way)
Seems to me saying other managers are better than the one we hired at lesser clubs is a coping mechanism for not seeing how badly the club is run and how countless managers have suffered under the regime at this club. You only have to look at ETHs previous clubs and see the football played and sucess to see he is a good manager.

Maybe he isn't the right manager for United but I have no doubt that De Zerbi, Ange and Howe would face similar issues at United had they been the manager for the past 18 months
 
Cassidy said:
This whole thing is a bit silly, Spurs will end up lower than where United were last season (whilst everyone was praising ETH by the way)
Seems to me saying other managers are better than the one we hired at lesser clubs is a coping mechanism for not seeing how badly the club is run and how countless managers have suffered under the regime at this club. You only have to look at ETHs previous clubs and see the football played and sucess to see he is a good manager.

Maybe he isn't the right manager for United but I have no doubt that De Zerbi, Ange and Howe would face similar issues at United had they been the manager for the past 18 months
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Maybe you’ve seen it that way because your stance is pro Ten Hag. Maybe I see it differently because mine is not pro Ten Hag. So I guess when posts are made in those threads relating to those managers our perceptions will be different. But for me the tell tell signs that those are indeed coping mechanisms for pro Ten Hag posters is that they will be ready to stick the knife in on managers who are currently outperforming Ten Hag. I mean imagine bumping the Brighton thread to go “Ha look at De Zerbi losing this match” whilst his fecking Brighton and Hove Albion team sit above Manchester United in the table. Like how can you have the temerity unless it’s part of a coping mechanism that the manager you backed has proven to be grossly incompetent.

I don’t really care what Ten Hag did at previous clubs. Been said a thousand times but what managers do at Ajax cannot be taken at face value because of the extreme balance you have in your favour being Ajax manager.
As for the bolded, that’s just rubbish, it’s false. Ten Hag finished 3rd last season at this club. You don’t need to talk about other managers facing similar issues when the one we have literally performed well last season. And nobody would be criticising Ten Hag to this degree if he had us challenging for a top four place, playing decent football and scoring some goals (see last season).
It’s clear Ten Hag is an impact/transitional manager. That’s why he was able to make the impact he made last season. It’s clear however that once he’s allowed to build a squad, develop a style, grow relationships, that he fails spectacularly in these areas and that’s why you’re seeing what you’re seeing this season.
 
Ludens the Red said:
Maybe you’ve seen it that way because your stance is pro Ten Hag. Maybe I see it differently because mine is not pro Ten Hag. So I guess when posts are made in those threads relating to those managers our perceptions will be different. But for me the tell tell signs that those are indeed coping mechanisms for pro Ten Hag posters is that they will be ready to stick the knife in on managers who are currently outperforming Ten Hag. I mean imagine bumping the Brighton thread to go “Ha look at De Zerbi losing this match” whilst his fecking Brighton and Hove Albion team sit above Manchester United in the table. Like how can you have the temerity unless it’s part of a coping mechanism that the manager you backed has proven to be grossly incompetent.

I don’t really care what Ten Hag did at previous clubs. Been said a thousand times but what managers do at Ajax cannot be taken at face value because of the extreme balance you have in your favour being Ajax manager.
As for the bolded, that’s just rubbish, it’s false. Ten Hag finished 3rd last season at this club. You don’t need to talk about other managers facing similar issues when the one we have literally performed well last season. And nobody would be criticising Ten Hag to this degree if he had us challenging for a top four place, playing decent football and scoring some goals (see last season).
It’s clear Ten Hag is an impact/transitional manager. That’s why he was able to make the impact he made last season. It’s clear however that once he’s allowed to build a squad, develop a style, grow relationships, that he fails spectacularly in these areas and that’s why you’re seeing what you’re seeing this season.
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It isn't, so you should stop with that assumption for one.
My opinion is based on seeing the same thing happen to LVG, Jose and Ole

The club do not address the obvious squad issues

ETH issues last season are well documented too, lack of away wins vs top 9 and we didn't score enough goals (for obvious reasons)

You don't care what ETH did at previous clubs but you want to talk about managers at other clubs being better... right. Unless you are being disingenuous none of the managers mentioned have achieved what ETH has achieved in their careers

Does that mean ETH is the right manager to take United forward and should not be sacked, no it doesn't
 
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Cassidy said:
It isn't, so you should stop with that assumption for one.
My opinion is based on seeing the same thing happen to LVG, Jose and Ole

The club do not address the obvious squad issues

ETH issues last season are well documented too, lack of away wins vs top 9 and we didn't score enough goals (for obvious reasons)

You don't care what ETH did at previous clubs but you want to talk about managers at other clubs being better... right. Unless you are being disingenuous none of the managers mentioned have achieved what ETH has achieved in their careers

Does that mean ETH is the right manager to take United forward and should not be sacked, no it doesn't
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You’re conflating different points and creating non existent arguments. My initial post was just to point out how United fans on here criticise other managers because Ten Hag is a failure. I never actually critiqued any of those managers.
But for arguments sake Ange has certainly achieved equal to what Ten Hag has. He has won titles in Australia and Japan. He won 6/8 trophies in Scotland including a treble. Not that I put much weight on those but it’s “disingenuous” to imply Ange hasn’t achieved what Ten Hag has.

Your opinion is based on managers being hired and then managers being fired?
This is how it works in football. Managers get hired, sometimes do well, sometimes do ok, sometimes do badly and sometimes get fired. We are not going through managers at a rate any higher than most clubs. It’s only at Man United where we make such a big song and dance about changing managers in 2024.

All of those managers were fired at different points of their reigns, everything wasn’t identical and they didn’t all have the same players.
As has been mentioned, Ten Hag vetoed against having someone above him build the squad, he wanted to do it. I absolute hate that the Glazers have continually allowed managers to do this over the years. But if you put yourself out there as a manager to take control over squad building then you damn sure better be ready to accept responsibility when it goes tits up. And apart from Ole, all our managers have put their egos before the club and have chosen that method and so any resulting squad issues are down to them I’m afraid.
 
Rooney in Paris said:
This is silly - lots of managers would do this, and will carry on doing this against this Spurs side. It's very reasonable tactics.
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Very reasonable for sides in the lower half of the table sure. You'd expect Manchester United at home to take the initiative, especially considering the players missing for them.
 
Everyone is now saying that they could see what Klopp was building in his first couple of years at Liverpool and how their football evolved. Maybe. I remember people spending more time talking about how he couldn't set a defence up and that they'll get nowhere like that.

So It's not surprising that some people have been doing the same for just about every manager who's been doing well, Postecoglou Included. Maybe it's just jealousy.
 
RVN1991 said:
Very reasonable for sides in the lower half of the table sure. You'd expect Manchester United at home to take the initiative, especially considering the players missing for them.
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Very reasonable for any side, if they are in the mood of maximising their chances. You lot have to got to stop pretending that top coaches don't revert to counter attacking strategies at times if it means they're more likely to win. Even Pep has done it at times, and he's one of the most dogmatic managers out there.
 
Cassidy said:
It isn't, so you should stop with that assumption for one.
My opinion is based on seeing the same thing happen to LVG, Jose and Ole

The club do not address the obvious squad issues

ETH issues last season are well documented too, lack of away wins vs top 9 and we didn't score enough goals (for obvious reasons)

You don't care what ETH did at previous clubs but you want to talk about managers at other clubs being better... right. Unless you are being disingenuous none of the managers mentioned have achieved what ETH has achieved in their careers

Does that mean ETH is the right manager to take United forward and should not be sacked, no it doesn't
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ETH got it horribly wrong with the Mount and Onana purchases in the context of the available resources. Keep De Gea, use the funds committed to Onana to buy a more robust CM who can defend and play then maybe look to buy a top CB to compete with/complement Varane and this team is more solid and doesn't concede soft goals.
 
AneRu said:
ETH got it horribly wrong with the Mount and Onana purchases in the context of the available resources. Keep De Gea, use the funds committed to Onana to buy a more robust CM who can defend and play then maybe look to buy a top CB to compete with/complement Varane and this team is more solid and doesn't concede soft goals.
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Or don't sign mount and sign a better striker
 
Rooney in Paris said:
Very reasonable for any side, if they are in the mood of maximising their chances. You lot have to got to stop pretending that top coaches don't revert to counter attacking strategies at times if it means they're more likely to win. Even Pep has done it at times, and he's one of the most dogmatic managers out there.
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When has Pep ever had 36% possession in a home match?

Did the set up yesterday maximise your chances? You had 0.92 xg and more than half of that came from a header in the 95th minute.
 
He's certainly made them a much better team than they were and the fans must be over the moon watching the football they play compared to Conte, Nuno and Mourinho. The problem I have with these type managers though, is that they are dogmatic to a philosophy that they believe given if they just stick to it, it will eventually get them a trophy. Or maybe they just hope they'll win enough and it's a bi-product, I don't know.

I do lament football these days that the objective appears to be philosophy focused and not actually focused on how to win trophies. Pep at least does specific tactical things in specific games to try and gain the advantage. The new managers just come out and say "we stick to our philosophy and it will get results". I still rate Mourinho higher than a lot of these newfangled managers for that very reason, his main focus at least is always about winning.

The fact we got outplayed most of the game and McTominay really should have won it for us in the last minute of the match, says a lot about the frailties of this philosophy.
 
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