His inability to play alongside anyone who isn't genuinely world class states otherwise.
Anelka And Alex Transfer Request Accepted
- Thread starter Drifter
- Start date
His inability to play alongside anyone who isn't genuinely world class states otherwise.
We'll never know how good King could have been, so i dunno how you can say that with such certainty.
Agree with the underrated bit. Theres no doubt Terrys a cnut but he's a class defender. You dont have the following without being one:
PFA Player of the Year: 2004–05
FIFA World Cup Team of the Tournament: 2006
FIFPro World XI: 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009
UEFA Club Football Awards Best Defender: 2005, 2008, 2009
UEFA Team of the Year: 2005, 2007, 2008, 2009
Just based on his performances when fit.
On Ledley king:
Thought that was interesting that I read the other day, from 2009.
Football academies: kicking and screaming - Telegraph
Thought that was interesting that I read the other day, from 2009.
What other players are damaged like King? I'm sure all the other English men of his generation and close to his age went through the same thing.
He barely plays these days so a sort of myth has appeared regarding him, a myth in which he is supposed to be the best defender in the world when he never really was anywhere near that level. Injuries or not, he wouldn't have spent his entire career at Tottenham if he'd been that good.
Harsh, you can't really say how good he would have been had he managed to stay injury free. He certainly has everything needed to be top class and when he does play he is very good especially when you consider the lack of training he does. As for staying at spurs well does loyalty not come in to it at all? Le Tissier could have played at a much better club but he stayed out of loyalty.
First of all we're talking about King when/if fit .... so his injury problems have zero relevance to this argument.
Secondly, being world class when fit has entirely nothing to do with playing (or not) for a top club in the CL. Otherwise we're back to the stupid PeterStorey-type argument which claims that only top-4 class players play for top 4 teams, that any player who plays for a top-4 team is by definition top-4 class, and that those who don't, aren't.
Lennon, Parker, Modric and Bale don't play for a top CL team, nor for a team that finished in the top 4 last season, but that doesn't stop them being at least as good as any midfield quartet in the Prem.
Fixed.
True but ambition or not he still stayed and you can't deny his quality. Shearer could have moved to united during his newcastle days but he didn't, again you can knock his ambition fair enough but you can't deny his quality.
I didn't. But I always found his attitude disappointing. He was happy being a big fish in a little pond. By his own admission he could cut corners in training and get away with it at Southampton. A waste of talent, IMO.
Glaston, serious question, since I've never seen you say that Spurs' players are any worse than other teams' and given how highly you rate your squad strength, why haven't you finished higher in the league over the past few seasons? Where are you lacking?
His boyhood club was Spuds. He turned down a move to them.
Was it? Fair enough, never knew that, always assumed it was southampton. Still regardless of that, if you're comfortable at a club, you can't really knock someone for staying put. We praise people like Giggs, Scholes etc for being one club men, just because someone plays at a smaller club and chooses to stay there, you can't really knock them. I take your point though that it can be a lack of ambition, but it can also be loyalty.
King's played 9 times this season - Terry, by comparison, has played 12. In the last 2 seasons King has played 21 and 29 games respectively - you should also check out the statistics showing Spurs win ratio with and without him, it makes pretty convincing reading.
Your assertion that if he was 'that good' he'd have moved on 'injuries or not' is bollocks to be fair - the situation with his knee is known to everyone and none of the clubs ranked higher than Spurs are going to consider buying someone with such a chronic injury.
With knees that bad he couldnt play any where else. Even if he had been the greatest of all time......
He'd be a top buy for them IMO. He is underrated I feel.
TBF for the last 2 season's he has deserved it.
I've always wondered why Ledley King's knees are unfix-able.
A crying shame that
It's obviously true that are many players who are better than some of their Spurs equivalents. For example, do you think I'm going to argue that Aguero is not better than Pavlyuchenko, or that Rooney is not better than Defoe?
The Spurs squad has been slowly developing and generally improving for several years now, starting more or less when Martin Jol became manager. The league finishing positions generally reflect this, and even if there has been the occasional step back it has usually been followed by two steps forward.
Now we have the strongest squad for many a long year, with a real chance to kick on further .... to finish in the top 4 again and maybe even finish higher than 4th.
What do we lack? We mostly need:
* Another top quality striker (to replace Pavlyuchenko and provide cover/competition for Adebayor).
* A quality midfielder who can play anywhere across the attacking midfield (for cover/competition for Modric, Bale and Lennon).
* A quality CB to provide cover for the Kaboul/King partnership (which IMO is pretty good) ... because King's fitness cannot be relied on, Dawson is out for some good while yet, Bassong isn't good enough and Gallas is not good enough anymore.
Adebayor isn't your player though and will most likely no longer be there next season so realistically you need to rebuild your entire frontline to have any chance.
I was talking more about this season and the January transfer window.
But you're right about probably needing to replace Adebayor for next season, because I don't see him accepting the huge pay cut needed to stay, even if CL football were to be on offer together with a regular starting spot.
So that will make two new strikers needed for next season ... but I would still like Defoe to stay on top of this, along with VdV of course.
I don't think Adebayor will stay, but am I right in thinking he has one more year on his contract after this one? Where else is he going to go, if Tottenham get Champions League football again, surely there will only be 5-7 clubs capable of competing with them in terms of reputation and the chance of trophies, unless he wants to go somewhere to get a big pay check but little else again.
The CAF has covered this numerous times - awards are sometimes voted by name-recognition and not performance. Terry was NOT better than Rio from 2007-2009 and yet his name was selected for the UEFA awards and teams over Rio. That's not saying Terry is/was not a great defender - he was great at one time for a good run of years and then Carvalho carried Terry for a couple years. He was superb from 2004-07 but the slide started from there. Not surprisingly the likes of Carvalho started to get crocked and Mourinho's fifth defender, Makelele, moved on. Rio will always be better and Vidic has been better since 2008. Terry is simply living off a recognition earned when Chelsea set defensive records in the league and his persona on and off the pitch (England's Lion, ya know). He's still a quality defender and one of the better ones in the league, no doubt.
I am sure PSG will be linked sooner rather than later and they could afford his wages. Other than that I don't see any big club who could pay him more than Tottenham and guarantee starting spot. Trouble with him is that no one really knows how badly he wants to play.
Ledley King world class ??? Has he ever played in the world stage ???
OMG... !!!
We don't really know how good King is because he has never been fit... But to assume he'd be world class if his knee's were proper is just a myth...
Not that he's not a good player but world class, Cannavaro good ? Nesta good ? Sorry mate, I really was lost.
OMG... !!!
We don't really know how good King is because he has never been fit... But to assume he'd be world class if his knee's were proper is just a myth...
Not that he's not a good player but world class, Cannavaro good ? Nesta good ? Sorry mate, I really was lost.
Actually being able to play matches regulary is a pretty big thing to miss out.
In general 99% of world class players play for the top clubs playing champions league and international games. Producing in these games is what counts. For example Berbatov looked world class at spurs but when he came here he has not reached those levels because in the bigger games its harder to produce. For me very few players are world class to start with and must have proved themselves in the bigger games consistantly.
There you go again, no offence but the way you talk about your team you should be winning the league, champions league and every cup competetion. Hopefully your not going to tell me all four of those are world class? Obviously two have the potential the other two being just decent players. Again for the two (Bale and Modric) they will have to leave Spurs to fill that potential, infact we know one (modric) knows this already and tried to force a move.
I haven't said that each of these 4 players is world class.
You dismiss them (Parker, Modric, Bale and Lennon) as merely being two "decent" players and two players "with potential". So perhaps you'd care to name a better midfield quartet in the Prem?
I must say i've been very surprised with Kaboul this year, he's played very well and been very consitient. Spurs main weakness for several years has been a lack of a genuine striker, Defoe much like Rooney scores in bursts. Adebayor imo has given Spurs a new dimension upfront, they finally have a player that will trouble CB's for the entire game.
How likely is it Glaston that you'll be able to sign him up longterm? You also need a new goalkeeper, as good as Friedel is, he's only a stopgap. Add another quality CB and I think Spurs will be looking very strong. Do you have the funds for this though?
In my opinion you'll finish 3rd this year. You'll come undone in March and thats when you'll fall away. I fancy you to get to the final of the FA Cup though this year.
How likely is it Glaston that you'll be able to sign him up longterm? You also need a new goalkeeper, as good as Friedel is, he's only a stopgap. Add another quality CB and I think Spurs will be looking very strong. Do you have the funds for this though?
In my opinion you'll finish 3rd this year. You'll come undone in March and thats when you'll fall away. I fancy you to get to the final of the FA Cup though this year.
Ignoring the fact that most top sides in the league play with a midfield three, are we?
I know I'd take de Jong-Toure-Silva over Parker-Modric-VdV. I'd probably take Ramsey-Song-Wilshere over the Spurs equivalent too.
As for your wingers, I'd take Nani/Young anyday over their Spurs counterparts.
John Terry underrated? Well now I've heard it all...
On this board, I think he might be.
At his best he was every bit as good a penalty box defender as Vidic.
Of course, he's declined the last couple of seasons, and the lack of Carvalho besides him and Makelele ahead of him has of course made him more vulnerable.
Defending with a high line, deprived of what pace he had, and David Luiz alongside him, makes it very difficult for him.
I don't think people are saying from the general public or the media. The English press have a tendancy to over rate the likes of Terry and they do it as well but from what I've read on here and other rival forums John Terry gets a lot of stick for being some average centre back when it's simply not true.
The problem I think is that people try to balance out from the over rating from the press and as a result he seems to get slated. I'd agree he's not as good as he was a few years ago but during Chelsea's dominance under Mourinho and for a couple of seasons before he was a class centre back.
As for King I'd say his main problem is his injuries, you can't expect people to give a balanced view on him with that kind of record, he's in and out of a side and whilst he looks good when he plays he doesn't really play regularly. If you gave someone a full season (like Terry does) then there's more room for mistake and balanced judgement unfortunatly King doesn't do this.
King clearly has talent, and it's evident by the fact he plays without properly training but I'd say it's unfair on the likes of Terry to compare them when he plays half as many games.
Seems hard to see the fact he needed Makelele in front of him and Carvalho beside him as a good argument for him being great. Vidic has managed to look better for years and has never had the luxury of Makelele sweeping up everything in front of him.
Vidic has largely played alongside the best central defender in the 2000's, and had Michael Carrick in front of him for large spells.
I'm sure Vidic would look slightly less brilliant if played in Terry's place in that Chelsea-side, my point is Terry's weaknesses are exploited to the full with the way Chelsea are set up now, and with his defensive partners.
what big games has he played in for spurs and England because I don't think he has played many. He might have the potential to be world class but I think he'll go down as a very good player who was blighted by injury.