Andre Onana made another mistake. Ohnono.

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Kostov said:
I haven't seen anyone talking about how DDG was still in his prime or ideal. People are just frustrated that while not being our biggest priority last summer, we managed to spend 50m on a new GK and downgrade to a worse GK. You obviously struggle to admit that, and that's where we disagree.
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It depends on what you're suggesting the other poster is "struggling to admit".

A decent GK who was comfortable on the ball was definitely a high priority, we'll never be a team that's comfortable in possession without one, and DDG was in a very steep decline. In this case it's looking like the right idea with the wrong execution, in that really needed a replacement keeper, but we chose the wrong one.
 
At the time, my major complaint with signing Onana was that the money would have been better spent invested in an attacking player or a midfielder, because my main concern going into the season was the prospect of not being able to score enough goals.

In hindsight, things turned out even worse than I had expected they would. You invest a lot of money in a new GK because you want to change the style of play, but at the end of the season, all that really matters are the results. Did Onana help us perform better? Absolutely not.

We wouldn't have been any worse off if we had kept De Gea.

100 million on Onana and Mount, money that could've been spent on Declan Rice...sigh.
 
I would feck Onana off with immediate effect and instil DDG on a temp contract until someone solid is available. Then give him the backup keeper role if he wants it as a token of our appreciation for his long and sterling service. He's clearly waiting for something.
 
NiceGuyEddie said:
I would feck Onana off with immediate effect and instil DDG on a temp contract until someone solid is available. Then give him the backup keeper role if he wants it as a token of our appreciation for his long and sterling service. He's clearly waiting for something.
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As much as I agree that Onana was the wrong move, we're likely stuck with him. I can see the next manager buying a promising new keeper this summer to press Onana, and potentially replace him if he continues to flounder.
 
The Hilton said:
It depends on what you're suggesting the other poster is "struggling to admit".

A decent GK who was comfortable on the ball was definitely a high priority, we'll never be a team that's comfortable in possession without one, and DDG was in a very steep decline. In this case it's looking like the right idea with the wrong execution, in that really needed a replacement keeper, but we chose the wrong one.
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It also depends whether someone wanted to be realistic or have his head in the send about our true level last year.
We were struggling to create and score last season also, CDM was a problem despite Casemiro and we needed a replacement for Eriksen. Add to that the Martinez injury and Varane being in decline and evidently. Shaw being a crook and our non existent right midfielder personnel. Yeah l feel GK was not the biggest problem for the team to play possession based football.
 
Gavinb33 said:
I mean Olise 2nd was in the middle of the goal, Mateta's whilst hit well was in his near post, Edouard would have scored near post again with the GK nowhere near

If you want to score past this clown his near post is always open
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His far post is always open too, the man can't dive properly.
 
Todd said:
At the time, my major complaint with signing Onana was that the money would have been better spent invested in an attacking player or a midfielder, because my main concern going into the season was the prospect of not being able to score enough goals.

In hindsight, things turned out even worse than I had expected they would. You invest a lot of money in a new GK because you want to change the style of play, but at the end of the season, all that really matters are the results. Did Onana help us perform better? Absolutely not.

We wouldn't have been any worse off if we had kept De Gea.

100 million on Onana and Mount, money that could've been spent on Declan Rice...sigh.
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And 90m on Antony the summer before.
 
I wouldn't want De Gea back, unless he is a short stop-gap. He is better than Onana overall, but he is not a United-keeper anymore. I was fascinated by the idea that De Gea was at the root of our problems cause he is not a ball-playing keeper, while completely ignoring that actually the thing you need most from the keeper is saving shots, and at the end of the day, any ball playing keeper won't make the team control the play while the manager decides that the midfield is superfluous in the sport of football.

It is criminal though the money we wasted on Onana. We probably could have got Martinez for that money instead. And we could have gotten Raya for quite a bit cheaper, both EPL proven keepers. But yet again, we obeyed the manager and brought to him the player he wants.
 
Hughes35 said:
I'm no fan of Onana but was he that bad yesterday? Didn't look much he could do about the goals?

Talk of bringing back De Gea is just mental. Lets move forwards, not back.

Next season needs to have a completely new look and feel.
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That's the problem. It didn't look like he could have done much about the goals but a better keeper has a better starting position. At least 2 if not 3 of those goals were saveable.
 
Kostov said:
It also depends whether someone wanted to be realistic or have his head in the send about our true level last year.
We were struggling to create and score last season also, CDM was a problem despite Casemiro and we needed a replacement for Eriksen. Add to that the Martinez injury and Varane being in decline and evidently. Shaw being a crook and our non existent right midfielder personnel. Yeah l feel GK was not the biggest problem for the team to play possession based football.
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I think we disagree really that "realistic" means "have the exact same opinion as Kostov".

Don't get me wrong, we had a huge number of problems, but without a keeper who is comfortable on the ball you simply can't play out from the back reliably. Considering that DDG was one of the worst around on the ball even in his pomp, was regularly making errors, and was no longer making the miracle saves he made for years to make up for that (and really he wasn't making saves he should be expected to make anymore either), our need for a new keeper was very strong. Not only that, his contract was expiring, so we couldn't hold on to him for just another season, we'd have to have been paying him for another multiple year contract. He was offered one on a much lower wage, he chose not to sign.
 
Just to reiterate the oft made point, we did need to move on from De Gea. It just looks like we signed the wrong replacement. I've been patient as long as I could be, but he's not cutting it.
 
Well, he obviously hasn't worked out.

That doesn't mean it was wrong to replace De Gea.

And it doesn't mean we should bring De Gea back (among the many ridiculous ideas floating around this place at the moment, that one is pretty high on the scale).
 
I thought United treated DDG appallingly and Onana was not a signing that needed to be made.
 
No, we did not need to move on from De Gea last season. What we needed to do was to develop Henderson into the starting role, perhaps as early as this season and have Dave as the backup. Overall defensively we were better last season than we have been this season although the downgrade from Dave to Onana only partly explains the deterioration in our defensive record it's still a part of the explanation. The 47m we wasted on Onana, who is no better than Henderson, and of course not Dave's level last (which was definitely not a peak season for him), could have been applied to a central midfielder, which we needed vastly more than we needed to buy a keeper.

But there's no going back to Dave now. We're stuck with Onana for what will probably be a 3-4 year transition as we cycle out senior players into a squad that can compete for the PL trophy, hopefully by the end of this decade.

The Glazer/Woodward fixation with big names whose best days are behind them fukked us over this last decade. Once Onana had that big game against City it was game on for United management to bring him in.
 
The Hilton said:
It depends on what you're suggesting the other poster is "struggling to admit".

A decent GK who was comfortable on the ball was definitely a high priority, we'll never be a team that's comfortable in possession without one, and DDG was in a very steep decline. In this case it's looking like the right idea with the wrong execution, in that really needed a replacement keeper, but we chose the wrong one.
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I don’t fully buy into that just because pep has made it recently trendy to do so. There were many great teams in the past who dominated possession without having a “sweeper keeper”: why outfield players cannot find passing angles without a ball playing keeper is crazy.
 
I believe that 1) the team mentality is causing issues and 2) the number of shots he's facing has to get at you at some point.

I don't think this season is a good judge of him, as he's had good and bad spells.
 
there are your usual opinions about tactics/style/players you agree or disagree with and then there are those that make you shake your head even couple of years after. we used to have posters on here actually convincing themselves they were watching two equally talented players in Messi and Ronaldo. but those convincing themselves that saving goals is secondary to (Onana's) ball playing ability actually tops that :lol:

honorable mention to "everything will be fine when Martinez returns". yikez.
 
I can understand wanting to move a different direction from Onana but I can't take seriously anyone suggesting we bring back De Gea. "De Gea saves that" yeah like he's saving loads for his new club right now or for his country. We were right to move on from De Gea but in hindsight, seemed better to have persisted with Dean Henderson. Who else is out there that can be signed? Do we try out Bayandir?
 
pcaming said:
I believe that 1) the team mentality is causing issues and 2) the number of shots he's facing has to get at you at some point.

I don't think this season is a good judge of him, as he's had good and bad spells.
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Everyone is fecking up this season so it's hard to judge. He's made some godawful blunders though well before the environment became this toxic. Because of the other priorities, we may have to roll with him for another season.
 
UnofficialDevil said:
Massive ego, just like his bald mate. Both think they are amazing even though they are shit
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I've been saying this for a while too, it's apparent he has a belief in himself that far outweighs his ability. The alarm bells were ringing when he started with that OTT berating Maguire for a mistake in the preseason friendly. Then the debacle over the AFCON and turning up late as though he was so important he could do what he wanted. Then in the brief appearance he made before being replaced by some lower league French player he was running out of the box to tell his teammates how to take an attacking free kick. Real big time Charlie stuff in my opinion.

Robbie Boy said:
I don't follow Serie A that much, but was he not pretty decent for Inter?
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From the clips I've seen of him last season he still managed to squeeze in a couple of his trademark howlers and letting tame efforts along the ground under his body. Same with his Ajax days for that matter.
 
The Hilton said:
I think we disagree really that "realistic" means "have the exact same opinion as Kostov".

Don't get me wrong, we had a huge number of problems, but without a keeper who is comfortable on the ball you simply can't play out from the back reliably. Considering that DDG was one of the worst around on the ball even in his pomp, was regularly making errors, and was no longer making the miracle saves he made for years to make up for that (and really he wasn't making saves he should be expected to make anymore either), our need for a new keeper was very strong. Not only that, his contract was expiring, so we couldn't hold on to him for just another season, we'd have to have been paying him for another multiple year contract. He was offered one on a much lower wage, he chose not to sign.
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One if the worst around on the ball is such an exaggeration almost as big as “you can’t play out from the back without the GK being Ederson”. The same over exaggeration was used last may. Ramsdale didn’t stop Arsenal last season and Madrid just got into the CL semis with Lunin while Kepa is on the bench.
And as far as it was reported DDG was being offered a contract on much lower wages and on short term, that was the only reasonable thing to do with him, than ETH changed his mind.
 
pcaming said:
I believe that 1) the team mentality is causing issues and 2) the number of shots he's facing has to get at you at some point.

I don't think this season is a good judge of him, as he's had good and bad spells.
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Number of shots faced will never explain how Olise managed to score his second. That was just appalling positioning.
 
Robbie Boy said:
How is he this bad?
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Well, how bad is he?

He isn't as bad as some now have concluded. But he has serious flaws as a player, and when those flaws are mercilessly exposed - he looks like shit.

I dunno. To me, having seen him regularly over a full season, he's just not up to scratch technically and tactically as a defensive keeper (kinda important, that defensive part).

You can argue that we haven't seen the best of him as an offensive keeper (his passing, his ability to initiate attacks) because we've been disjointed and generally not very good - and, yes, I won't dismiss that argument.

You can also say that we've been setting up in a near suicidal manner (allowing the opponent to get at us for fun), which has put him under much more pressure than he should have faced in a well-functioning system (for a supposed top team). And I can sort of buy that too.

But that doesn't really explain what seems like a basic lack of technical (and tactical) prowess as a...goalkeeper (on the highest level).

It's obvious enough that he would've looked infinitely better for a hypothetical team that was very dominant in possession and allowed very few direct chances (shots), and - again - you could argue that United should be that team. But - nah, on the whole he looks a bit like a busted flush. Much like the man who recruited him.
 
pcaming said:
I believe that 1) the team mentality is causing issues and 2) the number of shots he's facing has to get at you at some point.

I don't think this season is a good judge of him, as he's had good and bad spells.
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While the criticism of Onana is fair, it's definitely also important to acknowledge that he has been a victim of circumstance because he's facing more shots than most keepers, especially in the second half of the season. It's a pretty simple mathematical inevitability that the more shots you face, on average the more goals you're going to concede.

So a lot of the blame shouldn't fall on Onana's shoulders. The back line has been really bad this season, and that obviously comes down to an unreasonable amount of injuries, and in an alternate reality in which our preferred defenders were mostly healthy and available all season Onana probably would've conceded 10-15 fewer goals this season.

The thing I'm worried about is that the club will be dumb enough to make the same mistake for a second summer in a row.

We desperately need a striker, a box-to-box mid, a holding mid, and a center back this summer, at the very least, and we absolutely cannot afford to blow money on trying to replace Onana one summer after we incorrectly prioritized upgrading the position when we desperately needed other things.

Onana has shown at times that he's capable of playing very well, and needs to be given at least one more season to prove his mettle.

If he's still underperforming after next season, then hopefully there will be room in the budget to look at replacing him, because at that point we will have hopefully already replaced 3 or 4 players in the first eleven.
 
He looks like he's terrified of playing football. Reactions are so slow and I'm not sure he's ever been this bad for Inter but maybe he has, maybe they've got a much better defence and much worse opponents and he hasn't been exposed there.

Why is our recruitment so hopelessly bad? It's like everyone at the club goes out of their way to make sure the wrong decision is being made. We're in constant state of harakiri.
 
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