Andre Onana made another mistake. Ohnono.

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He's in a new country and we've seen that he is a great keeper. Every other keeper struggles in his first season at a new club, leave him alone.

Sometimes, this fan base deserves the shit that's been served to us.
 
RedRocket9908 said:
The point being despite people are calling Onana useless and saying we should have kept De Gea Onana is actually performing better than De Gea did over the same number of games last season.
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A three-goal difference after 13 games is just variance. It's an extra goal every four games.
 
Scottynaldinho said:
He's in a new country and we've seen that he is a great keeper. Every other keeper struggles in his first season at a new club, leave him alone.

Sometimes, this fan base deserves the shit that's been served to us.
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He may come good, he may not. Many, including ex pro keepers, are saying his technique is fundamentally flawed, he's a very experienced keeper and wont be able to change that much. DDG was 20 when he came to OT. We paid £50m also for Onana when he was available last summer for a free. His flaws had been well know before as well. Its a mess.
 
47 pages .. on this.. that says it all , the comparison to DDG isn't right , DDG was at OT for over 10 yrs .. this guy won't. Don't like him and I never will , he will cost utd more important games than he will get
 
Wrecking ralf said:
De Gea had a similar start if I recall. Not sure stats wise how different they have been. Be interesting to see a comparison given how De Gea turned out to be one of the best in the world at his peak.
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De Gea was a kid, so you can't compare really. But hopefully it's just a confidence issue with Onana.
 
Scottynaldinho said:
He's in a new country and we've seen that he is a great keeper. Every other keeper struggles in his first season at a new club, leave him alone.

Sometimes, this fan base deserves the shit that's been served to us.
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:lol:

You definitely deserve it for watching games with a blindfold on.
 
Denis79 said:
De Gea was a kid, so you can't compare really. But hopefully it's just a confidence issue with Onana.
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Shouldn't his confidence be pretty high after his recent upturn in form? Why is it always 'confidence issue' for every other player we have? Rashford has confidence issues, Onana has confidence issues.. basically every underperformer has confidence issue. I don't get it. And its not the first time he has had these blunders. The clips of him at Ajax tell us that he is prone to horrific errors.

His shot stopping technique as the poster said is flawed and his reactions times are horrible!

He has been a disaster and is detrimental to the confidence of other players. Imagine trying to defend knowing that you have a GK that cant save anything.
 
ayushreddevil9 said:
He has been a disaster and is detrimental to the confidence of other players. Imagine trying to defend knowing that you have a GK that cant save anything.
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Yet he was great in the league games before the last match. :wenger: But let's go to extremes just to strengthen our narrative.


ayushreddevil9 said:
:lol:

You definitely deserve it for watching games with a blindfold on.
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Blindfold? What are you on about? He never said Onana is fine and had a good game or anything like that, just that fans should do their "job" and actually support new player that just had a great season, through some tough form and getting used to new league and have just a little patience. I guess that is too much to ask for new gen of fans.
 
ti vu said:
I am wondering whether you're truly Man United fan now. Because it's easy to recall that game and Henderson appearance. After all, that result against the inexperienced weakest in the group team with already 2 defeat was the key to us crashing out of CL after winning the first two 2 games.
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I'm definitely a United fan and while I did figure out you're talking about the Basaksehir game I had no recollection of Henderson playing in that one. I only remember that ridiculous goal we conceded where we basically had everyone in the opposition half.
 
evil_geko said:
Yet he was great in the league games before the last match. :wenger: But let's go to extremes to strengthen our narrative.
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Yawn. Let's just keep our eyes shut and ignore everything in the grand scheme of things.
 
ayushreddevil9 said:
Yawn. Let's just keep our eyes shut and ignore everything in the grand scheme of things.
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I should be the one yawning because your every response is the same, you are the one ignoring all the other things that do not suit your agenda against him. Grand scheme my arse.
 
evil_geko said:
Blindfold? What are you on about? He never said Onana is fine and had a good game or anything like that, just that fans should do their "job" and actually support new player that just had a great season, through some tough form and getting used to new league and have just a little patience. I guess that is too much to ask for new gen of fans.
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No I think it suits the 'old' gen of fans who blindly support incompetency and mediocrity. Who can't really comprehend what they see on the pitch and just blindly support whatever shit thats thrown their way.

Not every GK struggles in their first season and then going on to call out fans for deserving shit, fans who can clearly see how Onana has cost us multiple games this season is basically indicating how out of touch some fans(or top reds to be precise) are with reality.
evil_geko said:
I should be the one yawning because your every response is the same, you are the one ignoring all the other things that do not suit your agenda against him. Grand scheme my arse.
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Ah was waiting for the agenda card. The only thing people have these days to counter criticism :lol:
 
ayushreddevil9 said:
No I think it suits the 'old' gen of fans who blindly support incompetency and mediocrity. Who can't really comprehend what they see on the pitch and just blindly support whatever shit thats thrown their way.

Not every GK struggles in their first season and then going on to call out fans for deserving shit, fans who can clearly see how Onana has cost us multiple games this season is basically indicating how out of touch some fans(or top reds to be precise) are with reality.

Ah was waiting for the agenda card. The only thing people have these days to counter criticism :lol:
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And you call that agenda bollocks "criticism". No wonder you have only one response prepared for everything. :lol:
 
RedDevil@84 said:
Agenda is one of the most easily thrown words on this forum. His performances in CL has directly affected our performance in CL. He has made a mess. And he is getting rightly criticized. Many appreciated him when he went to the media after his blunders cost us the match. But he kept repeating the same ones. Most of them basic goalkeeping mistakes.

Him being slightly better than the worst version of De Gea is hardly encouraging. He is not a youth player who is expected to come good in a year or two. He is expected to perform now and he is failing at it.
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Yep. Calling out a player for poor performance is now an agenda. It was the same in the Rashford thread earlier.
 
You can kiss goodbye to winning any cup trophies this year, if we thought de gea was bad at producing howlers at the worse possible periods in a season then expect no less from onana, he's going to be our undoing in any knockout Cup match
 
At the very least he should be dropped for a few games. ETH should set an example to the rest. Do your job or else risks being dropped/benched. This should be the standard at Man Utd. The bar should be high and these kind of howlers are not acceptable at all.
 
ti vu said:
Even with hindsight, Henderson is not that well thought plan. He has become injury prone which is an issue by itself. Also he had burned the bridge with the club. It would be bad to keep a player with this difficult character for a unproven talent level. What if he lost out after coming back from an injury, to a back up GK we bought, then throw a tantrum mid season?

Also he got us some money from his transfer. It's the matter of using the fund to get a decent stop gap GK if we have recruited better.
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I can’t argue with his injury problems of late, but my broader point is that it’s highly debatable that Onana was a better option for us than Henderson. Character does matter, as we’ve seen with Sancho, but my recollection of the comment that Henderson made was that he was frustrated at not getting a proper chance to play for the club. This at a time when the knives were being sharpened for De Gea.
 
Gordon Godot said:
He may come good, he may not. Many, including ex pro keepers, are saying his technique is fundamentally flawed, he's a very experienced keeper and wont be able to change that much. DDG was 20 when he came to OT. We paid £50m also for Onana when he was available last summer for a free. His flaws had been well know before as well. Its a mess.
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If his technique is fundamentaly flawed, then he is fecked and there is no way to come back from that at his age.
 
Onana clearly looks massively bad at present but Utd's Post-shot expected goals - goals allowed is one of the best in the EPL. This is seriously wierd.

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Physiocrat said:
Onana clearly looks massively bad at present but Utd's Post-shot expected goals - goals allowed is one of the best in the EPL. This is seriously wierd.
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Basically all his terrible mistakes have been in the CL, so it's no wonder that his PL stats look much better than the feeling is when you watch all games. He definitely has strong performances in him and isn't fundamentally flawed, but lacks consistency a lot. Which is always a problem with keepers because this way the defence becomes nervous.
 
stefan92 said:
Basically all his terrible mistakes have been in the CL, so it's no wonder that his PL stats look much better than the feeling is when you watch all games. He definitely has strong performances in him and isn't fundamentally flawed, but lacks consistency a lot. Which is always a problem with keepers because this way the defence becomes nervous.
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Really?

I remember the Forest forward sitting him down.
He should have conceded a pen V Wolves.
And he let one through him V Brentford.

There have been so many mistakes now, it is difficult to remember them all.
 
lex talionis said:
I can’t argue with his injury problems of late, but my broader point is that it’s highly debatable that Onana was a better option for us than Henderson. Character does matter, as we’ve seen with Sancho, but my recollection of the comment that Henderson made was that he was frustrated at not getting a proper chance to play for the club. This at a time when the knives were being sharpened for De Gea.
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Don’t bring Hendo into it, he was never going to be No.1 here. He had burned his bridges and there was no way back. He’s also no better than Onana.
 
stefan92 said:
Basically all his terrible mistakes have been in the CL, so it's no wonder that his PL stats look much better than the feeling is when you watch all games. He definitely has strong performances in him and isn't fundamentally flawed, but lacks consistency a lot. Which is always a problem with keepers because this way the defence becomes nervous.
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True, Utd are second worst in the EPL for Post Shot Expected goals - Goals conceded in the CL. We have conceded 2.4 goals than epxected. The worst is Antwerp with 3.7.
 
gaffs said:
Really?

I remember the Forest forward sitting him down.
He should have conceded a pen V Wolves.
And he let one through him V Brentford.

There have been so many mistakes now, it is difficult to remember them all.
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Of course there have been mistakes, but also quite a lot of saves. And the stats @Physiocrat looked up prove this. It's very weird that statistically United has completely different problems in EPL and CL.

In the EPL the defending is mid-table (8th in xGA) and the excellent saving (on average!) keeps them 5th on actual GA. But scoring goals is a problem (11th G/ 12th xG)

In the CL we see a completely different picture, United scores goals galore (3 in each away game!), but having the 2nd worst shot stopper in the competition (who at the same time is the 3rd best in the PL) really ruins it. Considering that Onana was excellent in last years CL he shouldn't have this big trouble due to the CL as such, so it truly puzzles me what's going on with him here.
 
gaffs said:
Really?

I remember the Forest forward sitting him down.
He should have conceded a pen V Wolves.
And he let one through him V Brentford.

There have been so many mistakes now, it is difficult to remember them all.
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A lot of the mistakes that he is making that cause discomfort also do not factor into PSxG+/-. For instance, the Wolves mistake would not factor, nor would the numerous times he parries a ball into dangerous areas that do not result in a goal or shot. It would be interesting to see how they accounted for the Nottingham Forest one because if it is truly "post shot", then Onana was on his ass when the shot was released making the xG for the shot higher and the net negative differential accounted for in this stat lower.
 


There are some good saves in there, especially the Fati one and the Harland one at close range.

I wouldn't say there where many that you wouldn't expect a Premier League keeper to make.

To make the argument that he is statistically the best keeper in the Premier League based upon these saves, is a real stretch.

To me, one thing that is very noticeable is that when Onana makes saved, he often pushes it back into dangerous areas. Our defenders have done well to clear these.

And then you look at the goals he has conceded, there are a few i feel he could have done better with....

 
gaffs said:


There are some good saves in there, especially the Fati one and the Harland one at close range.

I wouldn't say there where many that you wouldn't expect a Premier League keeper to make.

To make the argument that he is statistically the best keeper in the Premier League based upon these saves, is a real stretch.

To me, one thing that is very noticeable is that when Onana makes saved, he often pushes it back into dangerous areas. Our defenders have done well to clear these.

And then you look at the goals he has conceded, there are a few i feel he could have done better with....

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3rd best in one statistic, not the best at anything ;)

And you raise a valid point. Statistically United's problem isn't saving shots, but conceding too many shots. Wild deflections by the keeper lead to more shots, so the way he stops many shots indeed is part of the problem and could be improved upon.

Either way I think we agree that overall he isn't good, and that his CL performances have been worse than his PL performances.
 
RedDevil@84 said:
:confused:
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Your post implies that someone claimed that others claimed that Onana was at fault for all goals, and then argues against doing so. It’s probably not a stretch to say that literally no one has ever accused anyone of claiming such a thing.
 
The kind of errors he made does not look like lack of confidence. It's just incapability. I mean if you lack confidence most errors you make are like not going for a ball you should have because you are not confident to get it, or you going for a ball with hesitation. Those FK shots were just basic shot stopping skills. They werent even great FKs.
 
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