Not just for a couple of good months though. Matic was really good until the latter stages of the season. de gea was good also. I would still say Matic, de gea, Lukaku were the reason we came 2nd in the league last season.
21
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 28
- Goals
- 3
- Assists
- 3
- Yellow cards
- 7
- Status
Not just for a couple of good months though. Matic was really good until the latter stages of the season. de gea was good also. I would still say Matic, de gea, Lukaku were the reason we came 2nd in the league last season.
Our recruitment is a shambles. Herrera leaves on a free but Smalling, Jones and Young get new contracts.
Herrera has in my opinion been a massive miss since he was last fully fit.
The ability to play between the lines, link midfield and attack, coupled with the desire to close down and press and play forward probing passes is a skillset that our other midfield players have not got. To get even one international cap for Spain is a massive achievement given the talent they have had.
I hope we manage to keep him.
The ability to play between the lines, link midfield and attack, coupled with the desire to close down and press and play forward probing passes is a skillset that our other midfield players have not got. To get even one international cap for Spain is a massive achievement given the talent they have had.
I hope we manage to keep him.
No he literally tapered off in the first half of the season. Nowhere near one of our best
Ander on the ball Vs. premier league players talked about as replacements
http://stats.squawka.com/en/compari...423&s=101,103,104,105,106,108,109,117,111,113
Most passes, most forward passes by a large margin, most through balls, most assists, highest average pass length. Also 2nd highest goals behind Neves
Ander's contribution going forward is severely underrated.
http://stats.squawka.com/en/compari...423&s=101,103,104,105,106,108,109,117,111,113
Most passes, most forward passes by a large margin, most through balls, most assists, highest average pass length. Also 2nd highest goals behind Neves
Ander's contribution going forward is severely underrated.
Ander on the ball Vs. premier league players talked about as replacements
http://stats.squawka.com/en/compari...423&s=101,103,104,105,106,108,109,117,111,113
Most passes, most forward passes by a large margin, most through balls, most assists, highest average pass length. Also 2nd highest goals behind Neves
Ander's contribution going forward is severely underrated.
Stats don't tell the full story. For instance, the other players such as Matic, Neves, Declan and Ndidi operates in a much more withdrawn role than Herrera who was often utilised as a facilitator in a 3-man midfield, hence would tend to make more forward passes than the aforementioned who would likely pass to the defence everytime they got pressed or there was lack of options.
Secondly, no opponent thinks Herrera is a threat compared to Neves or Matic. Many of them would rather leave Herrera to wander around in open space but he hardly exploit it enough because he's neither technical nor visionary enough. We all know Herrera is a hardworker, there's no use bigging him up more than what he is.
Ander is not someone who will properl us to the next level but he is a experienced veteran who could be a good back up player.
Ander and Matic play in a duo. Pogba plays much further forward
He has created more and found more forward passes than the other players, fact
Matic operates deeper than Herrera regardless.
You cant only watch stats and judge a player ability based on that.
Do you watch Cristiano Ronaldo stats and see for example how many shots he makes and how many goals does he score and he is considered one of the best ever and some average forwards have better conversion rate.
Another example I have read in Meunier thread when someone posted that Young is better going forward than someone like Meunier by those same stats which is laughable.
Herrera is a player of no risk at all,thats why he has those stats.Every pass,shot he makes is a safe one which can do many midfielders in Premier league.
He is a limited player in some way but he is not a bad player.
He can do a job on squad player basis but nothing more.He is a smart player who understands football and does basics very good but simply is missing ability to be a first team player for a club of United size.He can be a first team player for West ham or Bilbao but not top clubs.
He is also 30 and relies on his running too much which is also another sign why club is not giving him those numbers he wants.
It is a mistake club didnt give him new contract season or two ago but it is not the end of the world if he leaves.
We need better players if we want to progress to higher level and he is not that important,even he stays we need to upgrade him,too much overrating now because of PSG interest,who want him only because of his availability for free.
Their average position is very close. I look
If Ander is a player of no risk why does he have the most through balls? Those are by definition the most risky
If forward passes are not a risk, why do all the other players there have around half as many as Ander? If they are no risk but move the ball forward everyone should be doing it
Its funny to see people make these desperate suggestions that have no logic behind them whatsoever.
Ander on the ball Vs. premier league players talked about as replacements
http://stats.squawka.com/en/compari...423&s=101,103,104,105,106,108,109,117,111,113
Most passes, most forward passes by a large margin, most through balls, most assists, highest average pass length. Also 2nd highest goals behind Neves
Ander's contribution going forward is severely underrated.
Ndidi, Rice and Matic are all pure DM's. Herrera isn't. The majority of United fans want Matic gone too. Rice is also 20 and Neves is 22 both with their first full seasons in the premier league and with room to improve. Herrera is what he is.
If you want to do a comparison with pure DM's then put their defensive numbers and see how he compares.
I want him replaced by someone like Eriksen or Ndombele/Fernandes in CM to partner Pogba in a 4-3-3. Compare his numbers going forward to those guys.
Ander is part of a DM duo. He plays next to Matic within 2 yards on his average position when they play together.
Ndidi for example has played further forward this season with Mendy being Leicester's lone DM until the last couple of months, where Leicester are trying to fit in Ashley Barnes as well as Maddison. So they took out Mendy who hadnt played that well and put Ndidi in his, deepest spot. Until that point he was playing further forward than Ander.
And yes obviously Rice and Neves are young and will hopefully improve. But in terms of this season/next season its very clear who looks to move the ball forward or put the ball in behind for an attacker to try and get on the end of. Thats Ander.
I am still in denial that Herrera is actually going to leave. We are going to have to fork out what £40m?, £50m? to replace him.
I would still rather he was in the team any day and against any opposition compared to say, Fred or Matic.
Yet another screw up by Mr Ed.
I would still rather he was in the team any day and against any opposition compared to say, Fred or Matic.
Yet another screw up by Mr Ed.
Based on the Fred purchase I think you might be undervaluing a replacement. Ndidi and Rice we might get for £50 million or a little lower but as you can see they don't immediately, instantly replace Ander. So a player that does would be very expensive even if we find one.
Ander is not playing in a DM duo. We play mainly a 4-3-3.
He didn't play in either of the first 2 games of the season. He was then used in centre back against Spurs and was subbed off after 50mins when we where getting pumped at home. He barely kicked a ball for the next 10 games, getting a total of just over 100mins.
He came back into the team when Mourinho made Matic a centre back vs Southampton, again not in a defensive duo. Then vs Arsenal at home Pogba was dropped all together,as he was for the following games vs Fulham and Liverpool. Games that were so bad Mourinho got sacked.
Herrera has averaged 36mins per game this season. He's barely featured and when he has featured there's been far more bad than good. The idea that he's had some partnership with Matic which merits comparison is flawed to say the least.
If PSG will offer him 200k pw then good luck to them. He's incredibly average and should be moved on.
Also for the record Jones/Smalling/Young shouldn't have seen new contracts either as they seem to be the comparison for Ander fans.
Ander is playing next to Matic. I do research after our matches to see where the average position of our players are. Do you? Or are you just making stuff up because you would rather it be the case as it suits your agenda and what you have already decided about Ander and nothing will ever change it?
I know, but I dont think you do.
Regardless of their position at the time the match start, Matic often drops deeper and most times, just a little in front of the defence.
I still don't think he's worth 200k contract. We're trying to bring the wage bill under control after making a mess of everything hence, it would be stupid to give Herrera the kind of wages he wants.
I would like Lemina who I think is a much better all rounder than Herrera as replacement. He's definitely not going to demand for 200k contract.
The Southampton guy?
Yes.
I dont think hes worth 200k either but I have no reason to believe thats what it would take to keep him. However if its True that PSG want him and are offering 200k, then there's a good reason why they rate him and want him.
What I have said is that you cant only look stats and judge players ability on only stats.Do you even watch games?If Ander is a player of no risk why does he have the most through balls? Those are by definition the most risky
If forward passes are not a risk, why do all the other players there have around half as many as Ander? If they are no risk but move the ball forward everyone should be doing it
Its funny to see people make these desperate suggestions that have no logic behind them whatsoever.
Also,you compared him to DM(Matic,Rice really)He does not play DM.
He does not play with Matic in a 2 but in 433 with him needing to be a box to box player but because of his inability going forward,because of his inability to run with the ball at his feet or take shot from distance or do anything in attacking sense,he then drops deeper with Matic and we defend because we cant attack(I must say extraordinary ability of that player Herrera,Matic as well) and then we play counter.
Have you ever watched a game or do you need to look at the stats again.
Why we played bad in his absence?
Because we played tougher opponents(Less rest between games and players who normally never play together,dont feel each other movements as we have seen against City,so many displaced passes) and Matic and Fred are not better than him,same story.
Conclusion is our squad is full of average players and Herrera is no different.
Glad we didn't give into his demands.
But we got a problem now that we are losing our second best CM. So we now need two CMs this summer.
If we lose Pogba we need 3. None of our others are good enough to be starters.
So if Pogba goes we need 3CMs RB CB RW and ideally swap Lukaku for soeones.
It is just too much to do. Wasting last summer has fecked us even more.
Shame matic isn't the one leaving over gerrerH.
But we got a problem now that we are losing our second best CM. So we now need two CMs this summer.
If we lose Pogba we need 3. None of our others are good enough to be starters.
So if Pogba goes we need 3CMs RB CB RW and ideally swap Lukaku for soeones.
It is just too much to do. Wasting last summer has fecked us even more.
Shame matic isn't the one leaving over gerrerH.
Ander plays as a DM, occasionally he gets forward a bit more like against Chelsea where he scored.
Our 3 most recent games with Ander playing :
Liverpool
5 yards or so in front of McTominay and Smalling
Wolves
Watford
How about the 2 before that?
Chelsea
Against PSG he played a bit further forward in a match where our midfield didnt work
Now stop lying to me and go do some research.
I doubt if PSG would pay him more than Verratti. I think it could be the length of contracts as well as the wage offered.
Maybe so. Until we get some legit concrete info we just dont know who is offering what
You are lying to yourself.
Listen,read my post again.I said we cant attack properly and because of that inability then Herrera drops deep in a 2 with Matic because they are useless in possesion and creating something with their magical feet and after that we counter sometimes even against relagation teams but in a lets say attacking mode against easier oppponents we play 433.
All the matches you posted are against better teams and like I said we drop deep(Herrera in a 2 with Matic,with Herrera being one more attacking) and play safe,counter attacking football because like Watford for example we are playing like mid table team.
Of course its not all fault on midfield but most of the fault.
Complete and utter nonsense. We play 2 DMs because Matic isnt good defending and Pogba is more of an attacker than a midfielder. We need that balance because Pogba and Matic do an appauling job defensively. Ander gives the legs, mobility and hard work that they lack. Thats why he can get forward to help attack at times and still be back to help defend. Because he's mobile.
What was made up?
I just gave you a rundown of the games this season. He didn't start the first two games, the 3rd he was in defence and taken off when we where getting destroyed by Spurs at home.Hhe barely kicked a ball for the next 10. So we're 13 games into a season before he ever lines up again with Matic in the team and this time Matic is in a 3 man defence. That's all facts.
Your research seems to be a heat map with zero context. Not exactly a multi layered analysis.
Its not a heat map. Its average position over the course of the game. None of what you just said makes any difference to the fact that when we played Matic, Ander and Pogba together and had our very good run this season, Ander was playing more ore less right next to Matic. He just has a lot more effort and energy so he can join into attacks and still get back to help the defense more than Matic does.
Occasionally he has played further forward and helped the defense less. But those are the rare exceptions. The norm is that he's right next to Matic with them both doing a DM job, because Matic doing a DM job isnt anywhere near good enough and he needs help.
Ander on the ball Vs. premier league players talked about as replacements
http://stats.squawka.com/en/compari...423&s=101,103,104,105,106,108,109,117,111,113
Most passes, most forward passes by a large margin, most through balls, most assists, highest average pass length. Also 2nd highest goals behind Neves
Ander's contribution going forward is severely underrated.
Usually, players playing deeper make more forward passes, so if one argue that he plays higher up you would not expect him to make more forward passes. But average pass lenght really does not make sense?
I agree. The further up the pitch the harder it probably is to play a forward pass.
But yeah the average pass length is just showing that his floor passes tend to be a bit longer than most of those players. But they have more of a tendency to mix it up from very short passing to long balls (he has less long passes than they do). So I guess he's consistent with his floor passes being a bit longer than the short passes the others play.
If Herrera is considered average then what are most of the rest of our players?
If we lose him, it would be a big failure by the club's management for allowing his deal to almost expire before starting contract negotiations. This probably happened because he wasn't in Mourinho's plans but still the club should have acted.
He is one of our only players who gives his all to the club every game.
If we lose him, it would be a big failure by the club's management for allowing his deal to almost expire before starting contract negotiations. This probably happened because he wasn't in Mourinho's plans but still the club should have acted.
He is one of our only players who gives his all to the club every game.
We should be going all out to keep Ander, it's obscene how we've let the situation get to this state.
He was not playing next to Matic. As I already pointed out with the stats on his minutes per game, positions he played in those games and the line ups in said games. By the time Mourinho got sacked 17 games into the season they hadn't had 1 single game as a CM pair expect for City away where Pogba was injured.
You're entire stats argument is based on him playing in a position he doesn't play. And the reason you wouldn't compare him to guys like Eriksen is because he'd look mediocre, which he is.
If he can get us into the top four then whatever he does next season he's earned enough respect from moi,imo.
Wrong. He had 6 league starts by the time Mourinho was fired on 18th of December.
Ole took over on the 19th of December, Ander has now started 9 league games under Ole since that date, most of those I already showed you where he played with average position.
Just as an extra here's his first two games under Ole :
Within 5-6 yards of Matic on average despite running up and down the pitch a lot more. We play 2 defensive midfielders behind the half way line and 1 Pogba who has more offensive freedom than almost any other midfielder in the world.
Wrong. He had 6 league starts by the time Mourinho was fired on 18th of December.
Ole took over on the 19th of December, Ander has now started 9 league games under Ole since that date, most of those I already showed you where he played with average position.
Just as an extra here's his first two games under Ole :
Within 5-6 yards of Matic on average despite running up and down the pitch a lot more. We play 2 defensive midfielders behind the half way line and 1 Pogba who has more offensive freedom than almost any other midfielder in the world.
He missed the first 2 games.
He started the spurs game in defence.
He then played 100 or so minutes in the next 10 games.
He played CM vs City because Pogba was out injured.
After the City game he was dropped
Against Southampton he played in CM while Matic was in defence.
Vs Arsenal at home we played 5 at the back.
Then Mourinho got fired.
What part of this is Herrera playing in a CM duo with Matic?
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