[BrianMcClair'sBarnet]

He's always been dealt a poor hand has Herrera.
Good in his first year here under LVG and yet ditched for a over-the-hill Schweinsteiger and a out his depth Schneiderlin in the following year and similar circumstances seem to be applied again under Jose.And yet both managers eventually end up doing a complete u-turn.

We all know he's not the best midfielder about but he has clear attributes which our club has lacked in recent times.He's dogged and can set the tempo due to this,plus his connection to Mata rewards us with a glimmer of cohesion which is a rarity in this team.

 

[11101]

I don't think so.
Matic 2 tackles , 0 interceptions
Herrera 5 tackles, 10 interceptions

There's a lot more to being a defensive midfielder than tackles and interceptions. Herrera was excellent but Matic was pretty good too, in a different way.

 

[ForestRGoinUp]

Like who? Agree on the quality part but we don't have a lot of players playing for the badge. Only Ander, DDG and Mata springs to my mind

Rashford, Lingard, Young, Valencia, Smalling, Jones, Rojo, Fellaini, McTom. Think they all have a similar spirit but none are top class.

 

[Beachryan]

Tell you what, if he had some composure he could easily get us 10 goals a season from midfield. Almost every match he has an absolute crystal clear chance because his movement is so good. Sadly, he's not particularly good at the shooting part.

At the moment our best midfielder.

 

[BrianMcClair'sBarnet]

He's like our modern day version of Nicky Butt.

 

[Ekeke]

No we’ve got plenty of them. Need more quality. Much much more.

We have 1.

 

[Paul778]

Herrera was really, really poor at the start of last season. He was woeful against Real in Super Cup and it continued into the league. Conversely, Matic was brilliant during the first few months hence why Herrera was dropped for the first few league games. The tables have now turned however, I think both are clearly very good.

Kinda makes you think that Andre struggled with the situation when after being one of the players of the previous season Jose chose to bench him for Matic.

 

[Foxbatt]

Herrera was really, really poor at the start of last season. He was woeful against Real in Super Cup and it continued into the league. Conversely, Matic was brilliant during the first few months hence why Herrera was dropped for the first few league games. The tables have now turned however, I think both are clearly very good.

Matic good? I do not think even Matic would agree to this. He has been poor all season. Yesterday everyone looked good.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Matic good? I do not think even Matic would agree to this. He has been poor all season. Yesterday everyone looked good.

I mean a good player. Not this season.

 

[Red Dreams]

LVG and Mourinho never appreciated Herrera.
He is an AM.
But he has rarely been played there.
But he can be a very good box to box midfielder.
He may not be a Roy Keane. But then who is.
Beyond his football abilities he cares about the club.
I go on about local players. But he understand what the supporters feel. More than one long time supporter has said he should be the captain.
If Mourinho leaves and a manager who appreciates him, we will have a great asset in the team.
He could very well move into a coaching role after his playing days.

Lets hope he stays.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

LVG and Mourinho never appreciated Herrera.
He is an AM.
But he has rarely been played there.
But he can be a very good box to box midfielder.
He may not be a Roy Keane. But then who is.
Beyond his football abilities he cares about the club.
I go on about local players. But he understand what the supporters feel. More than one long time supporter has said he should be the captain.
If Mourinho leaves and a manager who appreciates him, we will have a great asset in the team.
He could very well move into a coaching role after his playing days.

Lets hope he stays.

He offers too little in attack to be an AM.

 

[ForestRGoinUp]

If he was more than a poor man’s Arturo Vidal and Matic was within a couple levels of peak Pirlo, we would’ve had a decent midfield around Pogba. Sadly they are quite a ways off of those players.

No doubt he’s got the professional attitude you want to see in players, but for a guy who hasn’t played consistently, no one has exactly been breaking down our doors to sign him either.

 

[Ekeke]

If he was more than a poor man’s Arturo Vidal and Matic was within a couple levels of peak Pirlo, we would’ve had a decent midfield around Pogba. Sadly they are quite a ways off of those players.

No doubt he’s got the professional attitude you want to see in players, but for a guy who hasn’t played consistently, no one has exactly been breaking down our doors to sign him either.

So we measure our players on who they are linked with not the performances they put in?

 

[ForestRGoinUp]

So we measure our players on who they are linked with not the performances they put in?

It doesn’t paint the entire picture, but it can give you a sense.

 

[finneh]

If he was more than a poor man’s Arturo Vidal and Matic was within a couple levels of peak Pirlo, we would’ve had a decent midfield around Pogba. Sadly they are quite a ways off of those players.

No doubt he’s got the professional attitude you want to see in players, but for a guy who hasn’t played consistently, no one has exactly been breaking down our doors to sign him either.

What is it with the constant excuses with Pogba

Good players elevate those around them. Herrera for example has had two really good games against Arsenal and Fulham and guess what? Matic has also looked much better because he has a midfield partner who actually does the job of a midfielder. He can go back to competently doing the job of one midfielder, rather than failing miserably at doing the job of both.

I've seen Fergie win numerous titles with teams including the likes of Park and Fletcher. I've never seen him won a title with someone like Pogba. That should tell us all we need to know.

 

[MadDogg]

Good players elevate those around them. Herrera for example has had two really good games against Arsenal and Fulham and guess what? Matic has also looked much better because he has a midfield partner who actually does the job of a midfielder. He can go back to competently doing the job of one midfielder, rather than failing miserably at doing the job of both.

Matic has been far worse than Pogba this season. What was his excuse at the times where Pogba was playing very well while Matic was bumbling around doing nothing?

I wonder how Pogba would go with an actual midfield partner who does his job?

 

[tieunhilang]

I've seen Fergie win numerous titles with teams including the likes of Park and Fletcher. I've never seen him won a title with someone like Pogba. That should tell us all we need to know.

Take Fergie's last two titles for examples:
+ In 2013 he won the league with many average players, but with a red, hot Van Persie leading the line (Rooney sometimes sharing the burden).
+ In 2011 he won the league with a red, hot Rooney leading the line.
+ In 2016-2019: Freaking Ronaldo. The rest of the squad are stacked with stars too.

Fergie is a miracle worker. But even he needs at least one world class player leading those average group of players. And to people, Pogba is that only world class player among our outfielders right now. Take Van Persie or Rooney out of Fergie's squad in 2013 or 2011 and suddenly it would look unlikely United could make top 4 in those years.

 

[Ban]

Matic has been far worse than Pogba this season. What was his excuse at the times where Pogba was playing very well while Matic was bumbling around doing nothing?

I wonder how Pogba would go with an actual midfield partner who does his job?

So that's the problem, players around him?
Cause he played with Herrera too, I guess he was the problem too.

 

[finneh]

Matic has been far worse than Pogba this season. What was his excuse at the times where Pogba was playing very well while Matic was bumbling around doing nothing?

I wonder how Pogba would go with an actual midfield partner who does his job?

Pogba plays well when he has the ball. When he doesn't have the ball he's an absolute liability. If I were Matic I'd be absolutely dreading player with Pogna unless Herrera was playing as well.

It's no surprise Matic looked physically shot by around January last year... He was doing the job of two midfielders (very well) for the first half of last season.

Pogba has had numerous midfield partners in both a two and a three. The only common theme has been his neglect of any responsibility when he doesn't have the ball.

 

[MadDogg]

Pogba plays well when he has the ball. When he doesn't have the ball he's an absolute liability. If I were Matic I'd be absolutely dreading player with Pogna unless Herrera was playing as well.

It's no surprise Matic looked physically shot by around January last year... He was doing the job of two midfielders (very well) for the first half of last season.

Pogba has had numerous midfield partners in both a two and a three. The only common theme has been his neglect of any responsibility when he doesn't have the ball.

I'm not excusing Pobga of his failures. My problem is that that's basically what you were doing in your post about Matic. Laid his failures at the feet of Pogba, despite the fact that Pogba has been far better than Matic has been. Matic has consistently watched the man that he's supposed to be watching just run off him which has resulted in numerous goals conceded. When Pogba does that he gets accused of laziness and being a liability in defence (which he absolutely can be), so why aren't you putting those exact same labels on Matic? He's been just about as bad this season defensively while obviously being far worse offensively.

Matic's improvement has come when he's been partnered with someone who does more of Matic's work than Matic himself does. Not to mention the rest of the team line-up being a much more aggressive setup that gets us on the front foot more than the immobile lineup that we've used the rest of the season (and yes, Pogba is one of those players participating in that, as is Matic himself). Do a straight swap between Matic and Pogba in those two games and there is a very high chance Pogba will also play better (both than he has been the last month and better than Matic did).

 

[finneh]

I'm not excusing Pobga of his failures. My problem is that that's basically what you were doing in your post about Matic. Laid his failures at the feet of Pogba, despite the fact that Pogba has been far better than Matic has been. Matic has consistently watched the man that he's supposed to be watching just run off him which has resulted in numerous goals conceded. When Pogba does that he gets accused of laziness and being a liability in defence (which he absolutely can be), so why aren't you putting those exact same labels on Matic? He's been just about as bad this season defensively while obviously being far worse offensively.

Matic's improvement has come when he's been partnered with someone who does more of Matic's work than Matic himself does. Not to mention the rest of the team line-up being a much more aggressive setup that gets us on the front foot more than the immobile lineup that we've used the rest of the season (and yes, Pogba is one of those players participating in that, as is Matic himself). Do a straight swap between Matic and Pogba in those two games and there is a very high chance Pogba will also play better (both than he has been the last month and better than Matic did).

Matic absolutely needs to do more and in truth I think he has these last two games, which is reflected in the ratings he's been given.

The difference with Pogba in my view is that it isn't talent that's holding him back, it's a basic lack of effort. When Pogba has the ball he's as dynamic and mobile as they come, but he has such an apathy for putting the same work in without the ball that he's become a liability.

I disagree in terms of how Pogba would perform if he replaced Matic. Herrera would then have the same fundamental problem that Matic has in that he'd be expected to do the defensive work of two players. I believe if Herrera were partnered with Pogba we'd currently be slating him for being a headless chicken as has been the case in the past on here.

 

[MadDogg]

I believe if Herrera were partnered with Pogba we'd currently be slating him for being a headless chicken as has been the case in the past on here.

Herrera won our player of the year when that was the partnership we used all season.

 

[VorZakone]

Herrera also put in excellent performances at home against Chelsea and away against Liverpool. I have no idea why Mourinho didn't use him much this season.

 

[ivaldo]

Matic absolutely needs to do more and in truth I think he has these last two games, which is reflected in the ratings he's been given.

The difference with Pogba in my view is that it isn't talent that's holding him back, it's a basic lack of effort. When Pogba has the ball he's as dynamic and mobile as they come, but he has such an apathy for putting the same work in without the ball that he's become a liability.

I disagree in terms of how Pogba would perform if he replaced Matic. Herrera would then have the same fundamental problem that Matic has in that he'd be expected to do the defensive work of two players. I believe if Herrera were partnered with Pogba we'd currently be slating him for being a headless chicken as has been the case in the past on here.

He hasn't done more. Herrera has been doing most of his job, so he hadn't been exposed as often. That's the only difference. Herrera was running more, tackling more, intercepting more, creating more, and he was even picking the ball up from the defence more often.

It's telling that when Herrera was played as a two with Pogba he won player of the season, and in that season he won the ball back more often than even Kante managed per 90 minutes. Yet when Matic plays in a two with Pogba it's Pogbas fault. Even when Pogba has been woeful, and there's plenty of times that has happened this season, it shouldn't excuse Matic for capitulating. Honestly, I still have absolutely no idea what Matic gives to this team.

 

[finneh]

He hasn't done more. Herrera has been doing most of his job, so he hadn't been exposed as often. That's the only difference. Herrera was running more, tackling more, intercepting more, creating more, and he was even picking the ball up from the defence more often.

It's telling that when Herrera was played as a two with Pogba he won player of the season, and in that season he won the ball back more often than even Kante managed per 90 minutes. Yet when Matic plays in a two with Pogba it's Pogbas fault. Even when Pogba has been woeful, and there's plenty of times that has happened this season, it shouldn't excuse Matic for capitulating. Honestly, I still have absolutely no idea what Matic gives to this team.

Truthfully we need to be finding a partner for Herrera... Not Pogba or Matic.

 

[ForestRGoinUp]

Truthfully we need to be finding a partner for Herrera... Not Pogba or Matic.

Truthfully Pogba was a 90M pound midfielder from playing w much better versions of Herrera and Matic. It should be no surprise that as the quality around him has declined so has his output.

 

[finneh]

Truthfully Pogba was a 90M pound midfielder from playing w much better versions of Herrera and Matic. It should be no surprise that as the quality around him has declined so has his output.

Again this is nonsense. Pogba wasn't our best midfielder when he was in the team with Herrera and him and Matic are a useless partnership that have us 8th this season.

Of course we could buy world class players to mask his inadaquacies... But unfortunately we're in a competitive league whereby carrying lazy players won't win you titles. Man City don't carry any lazy lamp posts so we're not going to surpass them whilst doing so.

Therefore we have two options - replace Pogba with someone who actually works for the team or motivate him into putting in the hard graft. Mourinho's seems to be going down the second route by dropping him and hoping for a response.

I don't see any response though as we've tried it before... He seems to be the kind of player that believes he's bigger than the team. Unfortunately for him his performances far from reflect that.

 

[Red Dreams]

Herrera also put in excellent performances at home against Chelsea and away against Liverpool. I have no idea why Mourinho didn't use him much this season.

probably kicked Mourinho's water bottle.

 

[breakout67]

I don't think Pogba has ever put in a level of performance that could match Herrera's 2-0 Chelsea performance. I would also say that Herrera was better in 16/17 than Pogba.

I agree with those that say Herrera has been given the short end of the stick because of players with more talent, namely Pogba. The tactics, formation and personnel have been changed so much to try to accomodate Pogba and none of them have turned him into a world class player. Meanwhile Herrera plays well more often than not in most tactics and formations.

 

[Ekeke]

I don't think Pogba has ever put in a level of performance that could match Herrera's 2-0 Chelsea performance. I would also say that Herrera was better in 16/17 than Pogba.

I agree with those that say Herrera has been given the short end of the stick because of players with more talent, namely Pogba. The tactics, formation and personnel have been changed so much to try to accomodate Pogba and none of them have turned him into a world class player. Meanwhile Herrera plays well more often than not in most tactics and formations.

I dont agree with that because Pogba was fine with Ander. Its not like Pogba was crap and Ander was great, then Matic came in to make Pogba better. That didnt happen. Pogba did worse with Matic. So all we did was accomodate Matic, it was not to Pogba's benefit to move away from Ander.

 

[Patrick08]

He looks best when he's allowed to press the opponents up the pitch and defend proactively, like his first season under mourinho. The arsenal highlights reminded me of that. When he's asked to sit in front and hold the play, he looks a shadow of himself.

 

[MadDogg]

He looks best when he's allowed to press the opponents up the pitch and defend proactively, like his first season under mourinho. The arsenal highlights reminded me of that. When he's asked to sit in front and hold the play, he looks a shadow of himself.

Which is why, in theory, we should be trying Pogba-Pereira-Herrera.

Herrera gets to be a mad dog and press the opposition to death, Pereira sits deep and controls us around and looks to cut off what gets past Herrera, and Pogba gets to do his thing without having all the responsibility purely on him.

 

[Eric's Seagull]

Which is why, in theory, we should be trying Pogba-Pereira-Herrera.

Herrera gets to be a mad dog and press the opposition to death, Pereira sits deep and controls us around and looks to cut off what gets past Herrera, and Pogba gets to do his thing without having all the responsibility purely on him.

Could see this working and would like to see Jose try but. Although I fear if Pereira doesn't start getting some game time that he will be off at the end of the season, which I think is a shame as I think he has potential to develop into a decent player.

 

[Danillaco]

Which is why, in theory, we should be trying Pogba-Pereira-Herrera.

Herrera gets to be a mad dog and press the opposition to death, Pereira sits deep and controls us around and looks to cut off what gets past Herrera, and Pogba gets to do his thing without having all the responsibility purely on him.

Would absolutely love to see something like this. It's ridiculous get to see the midfields we have been going on about, especially having Fellaini as a starter, or Matic on a bad run.

 

[Patrick08]

Which is why, in theory, we should be trying Pogba-Pereira-Herrera.

Herrera gets to be a mad dog and press the opposition to death, Pereira sits deep and controls us around and looks to cut off what gets past Herrera, and Pogba gets to do his thing without having all the responsibility purely on him.

Squad resources wasted by Mourinho, and people think we just need to spend loads to catch up.

 

[Trophy Room]

I would start him every game. Player with the biggest heart. He's the captain on the pitch.

 

[shamans]

What is it with the constant excuses with Pogba

Good players elevate those around them. Herrera for example has had two really good games against Arsenal and Fulham and guess what? Matic has also looked much better because he has a midfield partner who actually does the job of a midfielder. He can go back to competently doing the job of one midfielder, rather than failing miserably at doing the job of both.

I've seen Fergie win numerous titles with teams including the likes of Park and Fletcher. I've never seen him won a title with someone like Pogba. That should tell us all we need to know.

And Pogba hasn't won us games on his own?

 

[No11]

overrated, absolutely awful.
dives in all the time, cant pass, yes he works his arse off that's it.

 

[Loublaze]

overrated, absolutely awful.
dives in all the time, cant pass, yes he works his arse off that's it.

He's overrated but he gets away with a lot because he's likeable, 'plays with heart' and 'gets what to be a United player'.

 

[Ekeke]

Cant be our best player in all our big matches. Nobody can