American sports

[Ayush_reddevil]

American football is such an elite sport, I can understand that it is hard to get into but if you actually start paying attention for a while you will realise how it's a great combination of tactics plus skill. This obsession that football (soccer) fans have with the sport being non stop is pretty bizzarre considering even though football games have no official breaks the actual ball in play time is pretty low .

Also American sports have a salary cap which makes them much more fun to follow imo as everyone has a chance to win the biggest prize which doesn't really happen in football . I can't remember the last time I watched a Serie a or la Liga not featuring one of the big boys .

 

[ivaldo]

So the answer is yes, you ignored the parts of the statement dealing with the sport.

Just after the grass, the beer, the hotdogs and the clay. Directly after that one reference to the sound of the bat is the breeze and the sun. You sure you weren't watching Ghost at an outdoor cinema?

 

[WeePat]

American football is such an elite sport, I can understand that it is hard to get into but if you actually start paying attention for a while you will realise how it's a great combination of tactics plus skill. This obsession that football (soccer) fans have with the sport being non stop is pretty bizzarre considering even though football games have no official breaks the actual ball in play time is pretty low .

Also American sports have a salary cap which makes them much more fun to follow imo as everyone has a chance to win the biggest prize which doesn't really happen in football . I can't remember the last time I watched a Serie a or la Liga not featuring one of the big boys .

The stop start thing was definitely my main complaint about the NFL in the past but I was also one of those people who never really gave it a chance and only watched the Super Bowl so I could bitch about it and make stupid Tony Pulis jokes with my mates.

Bizarrely I was a huge basketball fan from a young age and even though it is less stop start than the NFL, the constant timeouts and commercial breaks just faded into the background I stopped noticing them.

 

[giorno]

Baseball is best learned and appreciated by playing. And you don't have to an athlete or athletic to excel at it, it's an acquired skill.

Yeah, this is just wrong. Of fecking course you need to be an elite athlete to excel in baseball. Athleticism doesn't just mean speed or jumping ability. Batters/defenders need exceptional hand-eye coordination, power and reflexes, as well as more general coordination, outfield players also need speed and jumping ability and pitchers need exceptional arm strength and feel

 

[edcunited1878]

Yeah, this is just wrong. Of fecking course you need to be an elite athlete to excel in baseball. Athleticism doesn't just mean speed or jumping ability. Batters/defenders need exceptional hand-eye coordination, power and reflexes, as well as more general coordination, outfield players also need speed and jumping ability and pitchers need exceptional arm strength and feel

Those are all technical skills that baseball players acquire throughout their life. Some just do it way better than others.. Baseball is a highly technical game and strategy dominant game. Yes some people will be stronger and faster and are built differently, which is to their advantage.

Golf is a sport but many pro golfers aren't necessarily athletes nor can be deemed athletic, quite similar to baseball, hockey, and soccer. But they are elite sportsman in their respective sport.

Baseball is a game that you have to play as a kid through your teenage years to see how good you can be. Football and basketball isn't always the case because those sports take less training depending on your physical stature and raw athletic ability.

Hitting is about timing, weight distribution, angles, and recognition. Outfielders need good footwork, recognition, and understand how to get to balls quickly...speed isn't great if your path to a ball is wrong. Exceptional arm strength for a pitcher isn't down to being an athlete or athletic, it's really down to mechanics, ability to have ball movement, mental capacity, and ability to throw strikes and miss bats.

Baseball is a highly specialized and specific skill set that doesn't always require being an elite athlete. More and more players are in better shape because of modern sports performance and science, but being in great shape doesn't mean your a good overall athlete or athletic.

 

[giorno]

Those are all technical skills that baseball players acquire throughout their life.

No, they are fecking not and no, you don't acquire them throughout your life anymore than you can acquire strength, speed, etc through training. Otherwise we'd all be MLB players ffs

Athleticism =/= explosiveness/speed/power

 

[WI_Red]

The hardest skill in sports is hitting a baseball. Dont believe me? Go to a batting cage and go to the 80 MPH (which is not even close to how hard a MLB pitcher throws) cage. See how long it takes you to even make contact. Once you make contact jump over to the 60 MPH cage and watch as you fall on your ass swinging. And those are ball coming right down the middle. A professional players has to, in a fraction of a second, identify location, speed, and rotation and then decide if they are going to commit to swinging.

I played baseball for 20 years and could barely make contact when I faced a guy who was eventually drafted by the Dodgers. I grounded out to second. Proudest at bat of my life (he struck out 15 guys and 1-hit us that day).

 

[edcunited1878]

No, they are fecking not and no, you don't acquire them throughout your life anymore than you can acquire strength, speed, etc through training. Otherwise we'd all be MLB players ffs

Athleticism =/= explosiveness/speed/power

You're completely wrong about the technical skills and mechanics of baseball. You have to have a good baseline going into high school. Your physical development in terms of how much taller and general body frame is a big unknown through your early 20s until you're 24. So the more you focus on your mechanics and understanding, the better off you'll be once your physical traits mature and your strength develops. It is a highly specialized sport. Pitchers don't need speed or athleticism. Catchers don't need to be 6 foot 6 and 265.

 

[giorno]

You're completely wrong about the technical skills and mechanics of baseball. You have to have a good baseline going into high school. Your physical development in terms of how much taller and general body frame is a big unknown through your early 20s until you're 24. So the more you focus on your mechanics and understanding, the better off you'll be once your physical traits mature and your strength develops. It is a highly specialized sport. Pitchers don't need speed or athleticism. Catchers don't need to be 6 foot 6 and 265.

You don't understand what athleticism means

 

[edcunited1878]

You don't understand what athleticism means

the physical qualities that are characteristic of athletes, such as strength, fitness, and agility.

And I'm saying for baseball, it's not the primary thing to be athletic. Knowing how to throw a ball properly, having the elasticity, and learning the details of the game and mechanics is much more important then just relying on athleticism.

 

[giorno]

the physical qualities that are characteristic of athletes, such as strength, fitness, and agility.

You seem to be under the impression that physical qualities = strength, agility, speed. All the things i mentioned in the first post are very much physical qualities. They very much fall under the definition of athleticism

And I'm saying for baseball, it's not the primary thing to be athletic. Knowing how to throw a ball properly, having the elasticity, and learning the details of the game and mechanics is much more important then just relying on athleticism.

What is the difference between an MLB player and you or me? Natural athleticism. That is what allows them to master the skills needed to play the game at that level

 

[edcunited1878]

You seem to be under the impression that physical qualities = strength, agility, speed. All the things i mentioned in the first post are very much physical qualities. They very much fall under the definition of athleticism


What is the difference between an MLB player and you or me? Natural athleticism. That is what allows them to master the skills needed to play the game at that level

Elasticity of your arm and shoulder is based on knowing how to throw a ball for many years as a kid and teenager. And good mechanics or mechanics that work for your body and throwing motion.That's not natural athleticism it's acquiring and practicing and honing a skill.

Baseball is an American sport that is unique and has a totally different skill set and mental capacity. If you're stronger and more physically built plus your skill level is very high, then yes you have the chance to be elite at whatever sport.

But the reason why baseball is such an American sport is because of the unique skill set and mental capacity needed to be a professional baseball player. So playing it when you're young and knowing the game makes it so much a love for people who watch games, especially in person.

 

[Organic Potatoes]

It’s funny to think of now in the context of the discussion above, but MLB players used to not take weight training seriously. It wasn’t until the 90’s (...?, someone might fact check me on that) that they did. Then steroids came into the picture and things got wild. They were using uppers before, but that was a whole new ballgame.

 

[giorno]

Elasticity of your arm and shoulder is based on knowing how to throw a ball for many years as a kid and teenager. And good mechanics or mechanics that work for your body and throwing motion.That's not natural athleticism it's acquiring and practicing and honing a skill.

It is both, ffs. Otherwise every single american would have had a chance to play in the MLB. But they don't. Less than 1% of them do. Less than 1% have the natural athleticism to do it

 

[WI_Red]

It’s funny to think of now in the context of the discussion above, but MLB players used to not take weight training seriously. It wasn’t until the 90’s (...?, someone might fact check me on that) that they did. Then steroids came into the picture and things got wild. They were using uppers before, but that was a whole new ballgame.

Bash Bros were the 80’s, so at least since then

 

[VorZakone]

It is both, ffs. Otherwise every single american would have had a chance to play in the MLB. But they don't. Less than 1% of them do. Less than 1% have the natural athleticism to do it

Agreed with you. I'm genuinely not understanding the counterpoints they're throwing at you.

I may have the correct technique when throwing but I sure as hell don't have the athleticism to throw it as hard as these MLB guys.

 

[giorno]

Agreed with you. I'm genuinely not understanding the counterpoints they're throwing at you.

I may have the correct technique when throwing but I sure as hell don't have the athleticism to throw it as hard as these MLB guys.

Not even just that. Even being able to master the correct technique, and repeating it thousands of times, requires natural athleticism only a very small group of people possess

 

[VorZakone]

Not even just that. Even being able to master the correct technique, and repeating it thousands of times, requires natural athleticism only a very small group of people possess

Even the batters probably have far more reaction speed than 99% of us.

 

[WI_Red]

Not even just that. Even being able to master the correct technique, and repeating it thousands of times, requires natural athleticism only a very small group of people possess

True, studies have also shown that the ability to throw hard (90+) can be corelated with distribution of muscle types in the arm, so there is definitely a genetic component. In HS I worked my ass off and could never get above 80. I doubt anything could have gotten me there. Beyond that, there are hundreds of guys in the minor leagues who throw 90+ but never get to the major leagues. Beyond speed, the innate ability to provide movement is also important. For example, I only threw 80, but my fb moved like a son of a bitch, so I had more K's than a teammate who threw 90+.

 

[giorno]

Even the batters probably have far more reaction speed than 99% of us.

For sure. The reflexes, reactions and hand-eye coordination required are off the charts. And that's just the stuff you need to see the ball and react to it and being able to make contact. Swinging and making contact with power requires both significant arm strength, full body coordination, elasticity and explosiveness

As @WI_Red said, hitting a baseball is incredibly difficult

 

[WI_Red]

Even the batters probably have far more reaction speed than 99% of us.

This is absolutely true. Barry Bonds, who, steroids aside, was the greatest hitter since Ted Williams, was able to read the logo on a baseball as it left the pitchers hand. Insane.

 

[Carolina Red]

As @WI_Red said, hitting a baseball is incredibly difficult

Indeed. The greatest to ever do it only got hits about 36% of the time.

Barry Bonds, who, steroids aside, was the greatest hitter since Ted Williams, was able to read the logo on a baseball as it left the pitchers hand.

This is massive in hitting. I wasn’t able to pick up the logo, but I was able to pick up the spin of the laces as they left the pitchers hand, and that set me up for way more success at the plate than my teammates who couldn’t. But even then, it took me taking 150-200 focused swings per day and changing positions from catcher to 1B (to save my legs) to really see consistent success at the plate.

Hitting is hard. Getting a hit is even harder. You can crack a frozen rope and it be right at someone and it just counts as an out. You can hit a dribbler that doesn’t go 20 feet from the plate and get a hit.

 

[Cascarino]

The hardest skill in sports is hitting a baseball. Dont believe me? Go to a batting cage and go to the 80 MPH (which is not even close to how hard a MLB pitcher throws) cage. See how long it takes you to even make contact. Once you make contact jump over to the 60 MPH cage and watch as you fall on your ass swinging. And those are ball coming right down the middle. A professional players has to, in a fraction of a second, identify location, speed, and rotation and then decide if they are going to commit to swinging.

I played baseball for 20 years and could barely make contact when I faced a guy who was eventually drafted by the Dodgers. I grounded out to second. Proudest at bat of my life (he struck out 15 guys and 1-hit us that day).

I disagree with this. Not that I don't respect baseball or how hard it is, but at the elite level every sport is incredibly hard. Everything you've described here is not unique to baseball. It'd be like me telling you to go bat in a cricket match against Mitchell Starc, you'd be destroyed, as would anyone who isn't an elite level cricketer.

Edit: Thinking about it more I understand what you mean when you describe hitting the baseball as the hardest skill in sports. It is an incredibly hard thing to do. I still disagree with that statement, is it possible to compare skills over different sports? Is it harder than spending 6 hours in protective equipment in blistering heat trying to hit a ball coming at you at insane speeds? I'm always weary with such claims.

 

[lsd]

I will gladly watch an An American Football game between two teams i do not support and enjoy it a lot.

I would very very rarely watch a ( soccer ) football game unless United were playing and if i did turn on a game i know i would spend most of the time on my phone instead and be bored.

Baseball i don't get and have tried but it just doesn't do anything for me and basketball is boring to me as well though if i had to i could watch a game

Nascar and NHL seem to be things white people came up with to keep themselves busy and feel important

 

[Cascarino]

I will gladly watch an An American Football game between two teams i do not support and enjoy it a lot.

I would very very rarely watch a ( soccer ) football game unless United were playing and if i did turn on a game i know i would spend most of the time on my phone instead and be bored.

Baseball i don't get and have tried but it just doesn't do anything for me and basketball is boring to me as well though if i had to i could watch a game

Nascar and NHL seem to be things white people came up with to keep themselves busy and feel important

I love watching football, I watch every Swansea game (home games I'd watch at the liberty but damn covid ) and I'll at the very least watch a few others game every week. Premiership, championship, La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga games, I watch a lot of them. I guess because other than documentaries I don't watch normal tv and I don't watch much else sport, and being able to watch footie in work means I've got plenty of time for it. I think some people solely like to watch their team play whereas others as well as enjoying their team play like to watch football in general.

If Swansea were away I'd also go watch my old team Aberystwyth play, but again covid has put paid to that. I'm worried about the future of Welsh football, it's already been massively affected.

 

[WI_Red]

I disagree with this. Not that I don't respect baseball or how hard it is, but at the elite level every sport is incredibly hard. Everything you've described here is not unique to baseball. It'd be like me telling you to go bat in a cricket match against Mitchell Starc, you'd be destroyed, as would anyone who isn't an elite level cricketer.

Edit: Thinking about it more I understand what you mean when you describe hitting the baseball as the hardest skill in sports. It is an incredibly hard thing to do. I still disagree with that statement, is it possible to compare skills over different sports? Is it harder than spending 6 hours in protective equipment in blistering heat trying to hit a ball coming at you at insane speeds? I'm always weary with such claims.

I have never attempted to bat in a cricket match, so I will refrain from commenting. The only thing I will add is that Ted Williams, the greatest hitter in the "modern" era (WWII and after, although Williams' career spanned the war), only hit safely in 35% of his at bats over his career, and in his best year it was 40%. I am not sure how that compares to a cricket battsman.

 

[Zen]

I have never attempted to bat in a cricket match, so I will refrain from commenting. The only thing I will add is that Ted Williams, the greatest hitter in the "modern" era (WWII and after, although Williams' career spanned the war), only hit safely in 35% of his at bats over his career, and in his best year it was 40%. I am not sure how that compares to a cricket battsman.

Hitting a baseball is harder - there's no real comparison if you go by that minimalist look at the two. You can defend for your life in Cricket, you couldn't just bunt in Baseball, you actually have to attempt to hit on some kind of heavy regularity to move the game forward.

Going for a 4 or a 6(in cricket) is probably a finer comparison... I'd say a Baseball player would adapt quicker, albeit to the short form and more aggressive Cricket than a Cricketer would to Baseball. Test(Long form) cricket is a different ball game....

 

[Luke1995]

American sports in general have a pretty good system for young people to breakthrough.

Those who have been playing Baseball, Basketball or american football in school can try or get a scholarship in college, and try to turn pro from there.

I don't know if many countries have a system like that. Perhaps british universities.

 

[RooneyLegend]

Basketball is really great and it was amazing in the 2000's when it was really competitive. Football is good but Baseball is trash. They can't hit the damn thing.

 

[Bilbo]

I find myself getting bored very quickly watching American sports on TV, but going to the games is something else entirely. Always catch a baseball game when I'm in the US.