American Sports

RedPed said:
Just because it works, it doesn't mean it can't be improved?

Yeah the football league worked just fine up until the early 90s but then they changed it and the Premier League was born...we haven't looked back since!

The European Cup was a great competition but it was massively overhauled and now we have the Champions League. Now every team wants to play in it.

Now they're mooting the idea of a European Super league, who knows where that will go...things change all the time.

Americans seem to be very defensive about their sports.
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Our sports change all the time. I even said in a previous post things can always be improved.

Not sure where you really are going with this, do you want to know how sports work in North America and accept that it is different from how other parts of the world do things? Or do you want to just keep going on about how we don't have relegation and promotion so it must be boring?

I'll say it again, the phrase "Not better, just different" is what applies here. It is unlikely to change given the money the owner of the teams have invested and the immense mess changing how the entire sports system works. So coming in as a stranger, you just have to accept that our league set ups are different (again not better, just different).
 
RDCR07 said:
You are talking about too many games in basketball. Then think about baseball where the games are almost twice as long. And they play twice the games NBA does and in around 6 months. Thats almost a game a day since I think the season is 162 games.
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Yeah but in baseball they sit around or stand still for 99% of the time
 
JustAFan said:
As can Europeans or Asians or South Americans. All depends on how things are approached. If an American comes onto this forum and starts with the "Why don't you do things like we do it in the States" well they would probably find the conversation quite different from if they just asked a few questions about how things works.

Think of how a European might react to the once typical American comment "Oh soccer is soooo boring." or "Don't you get bored with all the 0-0 or 1-0 games?" or "Isn't it boring not having some exciting playoffs at the end of your regular season, like we do it the States?"

It's all in how things are approached.
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If an American did ask questions of that nature, I wouldn't mind at all. I would welcome the debate. There's nothing wrong in challenging why something is done...kids do that all the time cause they really want to find out stuff. But I'm hoping that you'll have noticed that I've never once knocked your sports in my posts and if I have come across in that way then apologies for that but I am learning a great deal.
 
RedPed said:
If an American did ask questions of that nature, I wouldn't mind at all. I would welcome the debate. There's nothing wrong in challenging why something is done...kids do that all the time cause they really want to find out stuff. But I'm hoping that you'll have noticed that I've never once knocked your sports in my posts and if I have come across in that way then apologies for that but I am learning a great deal.
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Fair enough.
 
RedPed said:
The 14 NFL winners are probably more to do with the schedules rather than the competitiveness because if the 32 teams don't play each other every season, a team may just get a break and a good run of games avoiding a form team till the latter stages.
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This is almost impossible because the schedule is determined on a divisional basis and almost every division has at least one good team. Added to that, 2 matchups are against teams within your conference which ended in the same place in their division as you did last season (#1 plays #1 of other two divisions, #4 against #4, ...) which means better teams normally have tougher competition. Yeah, you can get lucky one year if you get drawn against a division which kind of sucks (for example the NFC East last year), but then it'll even out the year after that when you get a tough division (NFC West for example).

So it's really not about the schedules, it's just that teams can quickly go from very good to very bad and vica versa (see Panthers last year as already mentioned). If you scrape your way to the playoffs, you'll most likely meet the two or three best teams from your entire Conference and even if you survive that, you'll have to play the best team of the other Conference in the Super Bowl so there's almost no way you can fluke your way to a championship.
 
VP said:
My gripe with American sports, and particularly the NFL, is that it often feels that the sports seem to only exist to make money. Is American Football even played recreationally? Can't imagine a casual pickup game even happening.
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Yup, you can play touch football like we play touch rugby.
 
JPRouve said:
Yup, you can play touch football like we play touch rugby.
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Baseball is also very easy to play as a pick up game, just need a ball, a bat something to use as bases and a bit of space. Even playing in the street.

Basketball can be played as there are basketball courts (outdoor ones) all over the place, plus some people have hoops attacked to their garage or a pole set up next to their drive way. You can also play all sorts of version using a garbage can and a wadded up piece of paper inside your room or office.

Even Ice Hockey can be played on any piece of open pavement, on roller skates or just running. All you need is something to use as a goal (two soda cans marking the two posts will do) and some people with hockey sticks
 
RedPed said:
The 14 NFL winners are probably more to do with the schedules rather than the competitiveness because if the 32 teams don't play each other every season, a team may just get a break and a good run of games avoiding a form team till the latter stages.

I'm not really referring to the competitiveness of the sport anyway but more so the variety within it. Would the Denver Broncos, or the Golden State Warriors ever face a team of part-timers or a lower league team in a competitive match?? But then again that's all hypothetical because you don't have lower leagues anyway.
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:lol: That first paragraph made me laugh. That just suggests a fundamental lack of understanding and knowledge of the sport and I see no value in discussing it further. Primarily because it's not really a discussion. You seem insistent on finding an issue with no regard to whether your comments are of value or logical.

Bottom line - whilst there is room for improvement like there is in any sport, I enjoy it just fine. If you don't, that is your perogative.
 
RedPed said:
Just because it works, it doesn't mean it can't be improved?

Yeah the football league worked just fine up until the early 90s but then they changed it and the Premier League was born...we haven't looked back since!

The European Cup was a great competition but it was massively overhauled and now we have the Champions League. Now every team wants to play in it.

Now they're mooting the idea of a European Super league, who knows where that will go...things change all the time.

Americans seem to be very defensive about their sports.
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Change will come when the fans and $$$$ demand it and not a day before. It really is as simple as that. If revenue was down and teams were broke, I'm sure radical change would come. But, that's not the case.

All the major sports continue to sign bigger and more lucrative TV deals and the players salaries continue to increase.

Why mess with a good thing?
 
VP said:
My gripe with American sports, and particularly the NFL, is that it often feels that the sports seem to only exist to make money. Is American Football even played recreationally? Can't imagine a casual pickup game even happening.
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whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?

Look up flag football. They have flag football leagues that anyone can play in.

Of course touch football as JP and others have mentioned.

That's without even mentioning how front yards/backyards/car park and every neighborhood field becomes a football field where everyone goes out and pretends to be the next whoever....Coming home with muddied knees and bruises as it gets dark outside in the middle of winter is as American as Apple Pie.
 
In my time, as a kid, in the UK.....I played or at least a mild version of NFL, Hockey, Baseball and Basketball the street of our little cul de sac or the field down the bottom when we randomly decided to have days off playing football. Helped that we did genuinely have an ice rink like 2 minutes away so plenty of hockey sticks were available.

I do love Americans anti-tie/draw stance though, and that footballs clock doesn't stop, at least when you watch 90% of football games, you know how long you can prepare for........my gripe with American sports is the endless start stopping for ad revenue, timeouts, the use of the word "play", amongst other things, but I have problems with any sport. If the perfect sport had been invented, it'd be the only one I'd watch.
 
rpitroda said:
:lol: That first paragraph made me laugh. That just suggests a fundamental lack of understanding and knowledge of the sport and I see no value in discussing it further. Primarily because it's not really a discussion. You seem insistent on finding an issue with no regard to whether your comments are of value or logical.

Bottom line - whilst there is room for improvement like there is in any sport, I enjoy it just fine. If you don't, that is your perogative.
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I already said I don't really know much about the sports in US. I follow NBA a bit but that's as far as it goes. I'm not trying to be contentious or anything but just commenting as an outsider looking in. I'm not trying to find an issue with anything at all....I just genuinely wanted to know, that's all. I would ask the same questions about cricket, rugby or tennis, of which I know little of too.

Some people are getting very defensive and precious about their American sports, ffs!
 
RedPed said:
I already said I don't really know much about the sports in US. I follow NBA a bit but that's as far as it goes. I'm not trying to be contentious or anything but just commenting as an outsider looking in. I'm not trying to find an issue with anything at all....I just genuinely wanted to know, that's all. I would ask the same questions about cricket, rugby or tennis, of which I know little of too.

Some people are getting very defensive and precious about their American sports, ffs!
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It's not about being defensive. It's your reluctance to listen to reason. I have absolutely no problem at all someone criticising a sport, what's it got to do with me?
 
rpitroda said:
It's not about being defensive. It's your reluctance to listen to reason. I have absolutely no problem at all someone criticising a sport, what's it got to do with me?
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When have I been reluctant to listen to reason? I've never said that anybody was wrong or what they said was stupid. I'm just talking it through with people who obviously know more about it than me...that's what forums like this are for. But it's gonna take a while to sink in. If you don't have the patience, I'm not asking you to contribute.
 
RedPed said:
When have I been reluctant to listen to reason? I've never said that anybody was wrong or what they said was stupid. I'm just talking it through with people who obviously know more about it than me...that's what forums like this are for. But it's gonna take a while to sink in. If you don't have the patience, I'm not asking you to contribute.
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The problem is that you can't really make comment on the NFL as an "outsider", it's a world in itsefl. If you have questions ask them and we will try to answer.
 
I find it funny that the idea of defending is basically either bulldozing someone or flinging the stick wildly with what looks like absolutely no purpose at all. Is this sport followed much in the U.S.?
 
rpitroda said:
I find it funny that the idea of defending is basically either bulldozing someone or flinging the stick wildly with what looks like absolutely no purpose at all. Is this sport followed much in the U.S.?
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Not a huge sport but growing. Expanding at the school and college level.

Invented by the native Americans.
 
rpitroda said:
I find it funny that the idea of defending is basically either bulldozing someone or flinging the stick wildly with what looks like absolutely no purpose at all. Is this sport followed much in the U.S.?
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I grew up in the region of the US where it is the most popular Long Island, New York. I was a Defenseman for my high school team. Lot of similar concepts to Soccer. Former USA national team coach Bruce Arena was an All American Lacrosse player at Cornell and was a Lacrosse coach before he was a Soccer coach. It is definitely growing but, it is a sport that is only really popular in the aforementioned Long Island, suburbs of Maryland, rural Canada and private/prep schools in the Northeast of the US. And like Ice Hockey the expense of the equipment needed limits the amount of kids whose parents can afford their kids playing the sport.
 
Keeps It tidy said:
I grew up in the region of the US where it is the most popular Long Island, New York. I was a Defenseman for my high school team. Lot of similar concepts to Soccer. Former USA national team coach Bruce Arena was an All American Lacrosse player at Cornell and was a Lacrosse coach before he was a Soccer coach. It is definitely growing but, it is a sport that is only really popular in the aforementioned Long Island, suburbs of Maryland, rural Canada and private/prep schools in the Northeast of the US. And like Ice Hockey the expense of the equipment needed limits the amount of kids whose parents can afford their kids playing the sport.
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Fair point. Compared to the major US sports which are pretty much pick up and play, this does need a lot more.
 
Ok my gripe about American football was a bit misguided but this next one isn't. Why are NBA fans so boring? All I hear every game, across the league, is this painful 'deefense' chant. College basketball seem to have a better atmosphere - why doesn't this translate to the professional league?
 
VP said:
Ok my gripe about American football was a bit misguided but this next one isn't. Why are NBA fans so boring? All I hear every game, across the league, is this painful 'deefense' chant. College basketball seem to have a better atmosphere - why doesn't this translate to the professional league?
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American sports fans don't really do the singing and chanting that is almost synonymous with European sports.

College fans are more fanatical because they are exactly that...college students! And things like in state rivalries add something special to the mix.

See, half the crowds that attend NBA crowds? Look at the age and demographic...you'll find your answer.

There are a handful of NBA/NFL/NHL fanbases and stadiums that have a reputation for being intimidating or imposing.

But....you also have to remember college basketball teams play how many games in a season? Half of that at home...

Then compare with 41 regular season NBA games...there is something to be said for exclusivity. There is a reason the atmosphere for the playoffs goes through the roof...more at stake.
 
JustAFan said:
Should note also that Baseball is a sport that lends itself to being played everyday. Starts around April 4th usually, ends a couple of days into October. Essentially 6 months so on average 27 games a month.
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162 games over 182 days (or somewhere near that number) which includes the three days off for that exhibition thingy aka the All-Star Game. It also must take into consideration postponements. It really is a long season coupled with half the time on the road in hotels and aboard flights and during the hottest and most humid months. Yuck.
 
Neutral said:
American sports fans don't really do the singing and chanting that is almost synonymous with European sports.

College fans are more fanatical because they are exactly that...college students! And things like in state rivalries add something special to the mix.

See, half the crowds that attend NBA crowds? Look at the age and demographic...you'll find your answer.

There are a handful of NBA/NFL/NHL fanbases and stadiums that have a reputation for being intimidating or imposing.

But....you also have to remember college basketball teams play how many games in a season? Half of that at home...

Then compare with 41 regular season NBA games...there is something to be said for exclusivity. There is a reason the atmosphere for the playoffs goes through the roof...more at stake.
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IIRC a lot of Americans consider the college level to be the big dog too, and the pro levels to be less important, although that may be mostly in American football.
 
Earthquake said:
IIRC a lot of Americans consider the college level to be the big dog too, and the pro levels to be less important, although that may be mostly in American football.
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I wouldn't say a LOT, but definitely true in some specific places. For example the SEC is the dominant conference in College Football and for a lot of people in around those institutions...those midday and afternoon games on Saturday mean a hell of a lot more than the Sunday afternoon NFL games. :lol:
 
MrMarcello said:
162 games over 182 days (or somewhere near that number) which includes the three days off for that exhibition thingy aka the All-Star Game. It also must take into consideration postponements. It really is a long season coupled with half the time on the road in hotels and aboard flights and during the hottest and most humid months. Yuck.
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Imagine when the primary means of transportation were trains and they were not air conditioned. :eek:
 
JustAFan said:
Imagine when the primary means of transportation were trains and they were not air conditioned. :eek:
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True, but most of the clubs were located in the northeast so travel was fairly within a half-day's reach or less. I imagine there was no central air on those trains. Bleh. Today's athletes have it made when it comes to travel and accommodations.
 
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