They have the tenure. Doesnt mean they're good. Scary thing is nobody at the club is qualified to even say they're good or bad. For all we know they could have been clueless
Amateur hour? The 12 key Man Utd figures from execs to coaches who learn on the job
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They have the tenure. Doesnt mean they're good. Scary thing is nobody at the club is qualified to even say they're good or bad. For all we know they could have been clueless
It's not pretty reading. To be fair, a few of the guys have fairly standard career paths, and seem qualified. Richard Hawkins, Eric Ramsey, Martyn Pert, and Mike Phelan. Jim Lawlor might not look qualified based on experience, but he's certainly earned respect amongst his peers. Compare this to Bayern Munich, a team I believe we should look to compare ourselves to given historical performance and position in their respective countries and similar fundamental ideology of how a football club should be run (not in practice mind you).
Name | Role | Previous Experience in football | Appointed | Years of experience (in football) |
Julian Nagelsmann | Manager |
| July. 2021 | 13 |
Xaver Zembrod | Assistant Manager |
| July. 2021 | 21 |
Dino Toppmöller | Assistant Manager |
| July. 2021 | 11 |
Benjamin Glück | Assistant Manager |
| July. 2021 | 9 |
Toni Tapalovic | Goalkeeper Coach | None | July 2011 | 10 |
Holger Broich | Conditioning Coach |
| July. 2014 | 18 |
Simon Martinello | Conditioning Coach | Internal Athletics Department | Aug 2016/July. 2019 | 5 |
Michael Niemeyer | Chief Analyst |
| Apr. 2011 | 13 |
Thomas Wilhelmi | Rehab Coach |
| July. 2007 | 20 |
Peter Schlösser | Rehab Coach | None | July. 2017 | 4 |
Maximilian Schwab | Match Analyst | FC Bayern II Analyst | July. 2012 | 9 |
Vitus Angerer | Match Analyst |
| July 2012 | 11 |
Michael Cuper | Match Analyst | Analytics Department | July. 2015 | 6 |
Now as we can see the majority of the staff listed on Transfermarkt has previous experience in their roles in some capacity, either proving themselves at youth level or within the club performing well in the same role further down the system. The exception is the medical staff and staff tasked with fitness, but that is not entirely surprising as they can have tons of experience elsewhere for all we know.
The thing is though, coaching staffs can be replaced fairly easily, there's a bigger problem with replacing upper management, so let's take a look at that.
Man Utd
Role | Name | Previous Experience in football | Appointed | Years of experience (in football) |
Football Director | John Murtough |
| 2021 | 23 |
Head of Academy | Nick Cox |
| July, 2020 | 20 |
Technical Director | Darren Fletcher | Internal coaching roles | 2021 | 1 |
Director of Negotiations | Matt Judge | None that I could find | 2012 | 9 |
Honestly, I'm not sure why Murtough gets criticized at all, seems like the most competent person possible for that position. That the guy negotiating is a professional negotiator isn't exactly bad either - although it's a fair point that he probably had to learn that job early on - but now he ought to be good enough at it after 9 years of experience with it.
Except for our coaching staff, we seem to have plenty of experience and are in fact hiring based on experience. If that professionalism was applied to the coaching staff as well I think we'd be in good stead.
What on Earth are all these coaches doing? Because it isn’t evident on the pitch for 90 minutes
Well, a DoF generally is responsible for player recruitment and ensuring the first-team has the operational support required, Mortough has been doing that for years, he helped in setting up the recruitment dept that modernized and led by experienced people.
Remember our current structure is new and Ole was already the head coach, once he's gone, Mortough and his team's new task will be to find a new head coach that can take this squad forward. of course this is assuming the Glazers don't interfere here.
Good post and I agree that our coaching staff isn't experienced enough at the level we aspire to be at. But I've been saying that for several years now on this forum. So it doesn't surprise me that things have gone wrong, which I personally thought was a strong possibility. But having said that, the level of talent in all age groups has increased exponentially, which is gonna help the next man in. So some people must be doing something right.
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Fletcher is (was?) a part-time coach also. With astonishing 3 months experience at academy level when Ole recruited him. Lots of fans lighted up firecrackers when he was hired as a coach.
Is it feasible that Ole could save himself by replacing his coaching staff with quality and experience?
I personally think Ole is done because he has lost the dressing room, but from the noises coming out of the media this is largely down to a lack of respect for and trust in Carrick & McKenna.
If he was to move and replace these guys it would show a statement of intent from him and the club which potentially renews faith shown by the squad, as well as actually improving our football.
It will never happen, and who is to say there is anyone even available - but I honestly think this is the one way he could turn everything around.
I personally think Ole is done because he has lost the dressing room, but from the noises coming out of the media this is largely down to a lack of respect for and trust in Carrick & McKenna.
If he was to move and replace these guys it would show a statement of intent from him and the club which potentially renews faith shown by the squad, as well as actually improving our football.
It will never happen, and who is to say there is anyone even available - but I honestly think this is the one way he could turn everything around.
Do you reckon Manchester United's recruitment strategy in recent years had been a success? Was it worth spending 145m on Maguire, AWB and James? Was it a good idea getting VDB, Diallo and Pellistri in the second year especially since the manager wouldn't play them?
i get your frustration, but you have to realize one thing, SAF's departure was disastrous to the club, there was virtually no football structure, LvG and JM were given free reign to do whatever they wanted. Ole at the very least worked with the people within the club and now we do have structure with clear roles and responsibilities, any new manager now will have to work with the structure that's now in place.
Managers being given free rein isn’t a bad thing if we get right manager. Despite last few years I still don’t want to move away from the manager being in complete control of the football side of the club
You should have just posted the clip from the athletic that you lifted all that from, it was much more eloquent.
Lots of good questions raised here.
The process for signing players you assume seems to be a wholly logical one. Why then do we end up with players the manager seems not to fancy? It seems to me that we ended up with Donny thanks to Ajax being short of cash and Edwin giving his good mate Ed a call. And why, when Ole announced soon after he started that his aim was to get United playing high intensity, high pressing football, did the club buy Maguire and AWB? Both good defenders, they would have been ideal for Jose.
The continuing role of Sir Alex Is an interesting one. While he clearly played a part in the employment of Moyes, I’d be very surprised if it was left to him to make the formal job offer; if it was, then it’s a massive dereliction of duty by either Gill or Woodward. While I agree with you that it’s not altogether helpful, his recent reinvolvement seems to have been at the club’s request, rather than machinations on his part.
Our only hope is that the new manager possesses the tact to be able to get the trust of the Glazers and point out a better way of doing things. Not a yes man, but also not anyone too blunt who will just end up scaring them.
No transfer is guaranteed to be a success, but you gotta try and sign players, and though i agree Maguire (a player Pep wanted) and AWB were expensive, i still think they are good players, James was a punt, and we made a profit so no issues.
As for VdB, Amad & Pellistri, 2 are very young, one is either a flop or misused, that is ultimately on Ole, another manager might use VdB or be more decisive and let him go
No they were not. They didn't get players they wanted. Mou would've fecked off Martial, Pogba, and possibly Shaw if he's given free reign.for LvG, i think the club was unable to sign some of his targets, iirc, the club tried but couldn't for what ever reasons.
as for JM, he had 2 summers where he got most of what he asked for, in his 3rd summer, he was vetoed to bring the likes of Willian, Boateng & Alderwild, which was sensible from the club.
so that's not the definition of "free reign". Mou wanted Maguire, and Fred was definitely not his signing.
Lvg and jose werent tasked with creating structure. That's not their problem. So does Ole.
His input on whether the whole structure is good or bad is as moot as asking direction from a tourist.
Ole worked with the team, we have the structure but are they good? Having bodies on the job doesnt mean they're good.
And considering ole is a lousy manager i think he's a shit judge of coaching. He wont be in this situation 3 years and 500m after if he had a keen eye on coaching talent.
I'd sack them all and hire quality if i were the glazer.
Shrewbury coach? You gotta be kidding me.
What you're essentially suggesting is that a man who appears not to know what he's doing, bring in people better qualified and/or better at the job that he is, below him, to actually do the job.
Some managers will no doubt be highly active on the training ground and will directly impart what they want to the players. Others, I suspect, are not, but surely even those managers who leave the detail to their coaching staff have to have communicated very clearly the tactics and the system they want to instil in the players, in order that the coaches are able to coach it? If the manager is reliant on his coaches to decide how the team plays, why is he in the job? What's the point in him being there?
You can have the best coaches in the world. If they don't know what they're supposed to be coaching, or the system they are coaching is flawed then it doesn't matter how good they are. It'll be obvious on the pitch.
It's become obvious that Solskjaer has neither the force of personality, or the tactical nous to manage a club of this size. He looked completely lost on Sunday and the players did likewise because they have no idea what they're supposed to be doing. It really is that simple. I agree that he's lost the players and frankly, it's only a matter of time before he's sacked. In my view, delaying it only makes it more painful for all concerned.
My fear here is that the club only want to appoint "yes men", rather than someone who'll challenge the order of things right up to the top. The question that should be asked is how Solskjaer (and probably a number of others) actually found themselves in the positions they are at one of the biggest clubs in the world. That's the root of the problem.
So in your own words... nothing is a success? And thats 500m spent by the way.
I dont think finding a yes men are the clubs intention. Lvg and jose arent exactly a yes man. I think the intention to find the best man is all there, also the monetary backing. Alas they're just clueless.
Ole is seen as cheap yes man pick 3 years ago but he surely arent cheap, infact he's the most expensive manager post saf. And it doesnt look like he's holding back on comment once the chips are down
Spurs, where we got him from as well as Jose Mourinho who promoted him.
IMO the OP is well thought and something that most could agree to, in full or in part, if you look at the club from a negative perspective.
Maybe you do have the wrong people in role at every level (I don’t think it’s a top to bottom problem) but my point is that you don’t necessarily need to have massive experience in the game to be good at your job in football, and anyway, would you care about who did what if you were getting the perfect results you wanted?
IMO if you have a problem then the problem’s at the top and anything wrong below the top is due to the top because that’s where the shit comes down from and that’s where the buck stops.
The Glazers aren’t experienced in football but they‘re very capable of getting what they want out of Utd as they really have proven success at making money from the commercial sports industry.
They bought the Tampa Bay Bucs for $192M in 1995 and 26 years later it’s worth $1.2B (if you think they’re idiots then this should convince you otherwise).
Furthermore, they used a leveraged buy out (managed by investment banker Ed Woodward) to take control of Utd for $1.4B in 2006 and it’s now worth an eye watering $3.1B.
Added to this they’re currently diversifying their sports commerce portfolio by buying a professional cricket club in India.
The Glazers and their man Woodward are not football men but nobody can say that they don’t know how to run a sports business for profit.
IMO, therein lies the problem as their focus is on making money rather than winning pots.
They‘ll care about the profile of the club as a brand, so they’ll always put in enough to have you there or thereabouts, but their absolute focus is on making money, not on winning prizes and, in football as in all sports, there’s a model of diminishing returns whereby the cost of making the extra financial push to be the very best isn’t repaid by the rewards of actually being the best.
I think that if there is a problem it’s at the top, but that it’s not because the Glazers can’t run a football business, they’ve proven that they can do that very well indeed. The problem is that maximising your profit from a football club is counter to maximising your success on the field.
In short; Utd has the wrong focus.
PS. But that’s not all bad as you still play in Europe every year, you have a star studded squad (almost a football version of the Harlem Globetrotters with Varane, Ronaldo, Pogba, Cavani et al), you have an ex-player hero as manager and it seems that when you play against City, you generally pull a rabbit out of the hat and take 3 points.
Maybe you do have the wrong people in role at every level (I don’t think it’s a top to bottom problem) but my point is that you don’t necessarily need to have massive experience in the game to be good at your job in football, and anyway, would you care about who did what if you were getting the perfect results you wanted?
IMO if you have a problem then the problem’s at the top and anything wrong below the top is due to the top because that’s where the shit comes down from and that’s where the buck stops.
The Glazers aren’t experienced in football but they‘re very capable of getting what they want out of Utd as they really have proven success at making money from the commercial sports industry.
They bought the Tampa Bay Bucs for $192M in 1995 and 26 years later it’s worth $1.2B (if you think they’re idiots then this should convince you otherwise).
Furthermore, they used a leveraged buy out (managed by investment banker Ed Woodward) to take control of Utd for $1.4B in 2006 and it’s now worth an eye watering $3.1B.
Added to this they’re currently diversifying their sports commerce portfolio by buying a professional cricket club in India.
The Glazers and their man Woodward are not football men but nobody can say that they don’t know how to run a sports business for profit.
IMO, therein lies the problem as their focus is on making money rather than winning pots.
They‘ll care about the profile of the club as a brand, so they’ll always put in enough to have you there or thereabouts, but their absolute focus is on making money, not on winning prizes and, in football as in all sports, there’s a model of diminishing returns whereby the cost of making the extra financial push to be the very best isn’t repaid by the rewards of actually being the best.
I think that if there is a problem it’s at the top, but that it’s not because the Glazers can’t run a football business, they’ve proven that they can do that very well indeed. The problem is that maximising your profit from a football club is counter to maximising your success on the field.
In short; Utd has the wrong focus.
PS. But that’s not all bad as you still play in Europe every year, you have a star studded squad (almost a football version of the Harlem Globetrotters with Varane, Ronaldo, Pogba, Cavani et al), you have an ex-player hero as manager and it seems that when you play against City, you generally pull a rabbit out of the hat and take 3 points.
As I said, post SAF, there was no football structure, and of course it's not the manager's job to create/implement a structure, but not having one is also problematic in itself, and our incompetent board never took initiative to do anything about it after SAF left.
But then, you will need to start from somewhere, and that happened with the appointment of John Mortough, and the current setup, granted it didn't much yet, but nothing can be achieved overnight and they had to start at some point.
Ole & his coaching staff where there already before the structure, but once Ole is gone, it will be the first test of Mortough and his team to select the next head coach.
Btw, nothing wrong with hiring a new and young coach, if you already have a setup that has experienced and successful coaches, if Pep today hires Ramsey, i think its ok because Ramsey will work with and learn from Pep and his experienced coaches, Ole shouldn't hire someone with no experience like Ramsey to begin with, so you are actually right, Ole, a lousy manager himself would not be a good judge of coaches.
Will never tire of the same old crap posts on here.
fecking joke
So basically your praise about Murtough is based on fluff and not on tangible results.
Its one thing being good players and its another spending 145m over 3 players who are nowhere near as good as their price tag suggest. Van Gouw, Park and Heinze were good players but if SAF spent 145m on those three then that would be considered a massive mistake. Now lets have a look at these 3 players. Maguire was always as slow as a tanker ship which was a massive problem in modern football especially with a manager who play a high line. It might have been a decent punt at half the price but not at 80m which is why City bailed out of that deal. AWB is an old fashioned RB (I am talking the 80s here) were FB were assessed based on solely their defensive abilities. I wasn't against that signing itself but 50m on him was indeed ridiculous. I agree on James though.
As for VDB, Amad and Pellistri a DOF needs to make sure that the manager is on the same page else he ends up spending tens of millions only for players to rot on the bench. If the manager is inflexible and takes a my way or the highway approach then its up to the DOF to make sure to warn the board that this manager is not good enough. Instead we have a scenario were the club was caught completely unprepared to the eventuality of having to sack Ole despite United haven't been playing well for months. How stupid is that?
Murtough has been here since Moyes. He's had a finger in the pie in every failed administration and yet instead of being sacked he was promoted. Its the same tactic we used with the likes of Mckenna, Carrick and co.
What are you talking about? who said nothing is a success? I said success cannot be guaranteed for every signing the club makes, that is normal and expected, Pep signed Bravo, who he binned the next season for Ederson, Klopp signed few flops too, and I'm not saying Maguire & AWB flopped, they've been a permanent fixture in the side since they joined, my only gripe is we paid way too much for both of them, but they are good players, Bruno is an excellent signing, Cavani is another good signing, Varane is also an excellent signing, Sancho is a talented young player, you can't say the money spent during Ole's time all went to waste in terms of players quality, just because Ole is a shit manager, another manager can get this squad to perform much better.
That's a fair point, but I suspect neither were shy in pointing out where they saw failings in the club. The shambolic way in which transfers were handled, especially during Mourinho's time is a good example.
Ole is never going to challenge the club and will work within the system because he knows he's lucky to be there, being completely unqualified for the job. No manager in history has evert been plucked from a league which is almost part-time in comparison, to manage one of the biggest clubs in the world.
The issue sits above the manager. There's a culture of inexperience and promoting from within, despite the club lacking the proper structure that other clubs have. Are any of these people fit for the job? What qualifications do they have other than being "United men".
The DoF issue highlights it for me. United could have had their pick of practically anyone in the world given the resources at hand. And they employed (it seems, although I'm not sure how the role equates) Darren Fletcher, who has no experience at all. By comparison (and for example), Newcastle are, if you believe the rumours, going to poach Marc Overmars from Ajax. He'll probably bring their manager and other staff with him. That, to me seems like a much better bet - take what is working well elsewhere.
My point is that a top DoF, or other football administrator is likely to come in to the club and start pointing fingers and making it clear exactly where the problems lie. And that doesn't suit a number of individuals at the top, making decisions and being paid handsomely to do it.
I've said this above, but the "United way" nonsense is being used to justify mediocrity, which (if you want to get romantic) neither Busby nor Sir Alex would accept. This high handed idea that United have to do it a different way than all the other top clubs do it is rubbish. The people running the club are not football people and it's clear and obvious that this is the case. The same mistakes are made again and again and the club has been left behind as the game has moved on.
Liverpool stagnated for years with the old "boot room" philosophy and only moved on when they realised it doesn't work anymore and that times had changed. United are stuck there now.
Well said. It's "failing upwards" and it's standard at any badly ran organisation. You see it frequently in business, and especially organisations run on the public purse. People get managed up, instead of managed out.
This simply wouldn't be accepted at any other club.
What is urgently needed can only be described as a cull of epic proportion... Unfortunately this will not happen any time soon until we have new owners at our club 
Murtough who was brought to the club in January 2014 to undertake the biggest revamp in the clubs modern history had diddly squat to do with the first team. He also worked in the academy and was later appointed in a development role to bridge the gap between the first team and youth/reserves. And this info is easily verifiable via a online search.
Couldn’t agree more. Ole himself had only managed Molde and Cardiff, who he got relegated in the one time he managed in the Premier League previously. Carrick went straight into the coaching staff simply by virtue of being able to pass the ball well for a decade, without any prior education in the lower leagues. McKenna hadn’t even coached a senior team before. Only Phelan had any experience of being in a title winning team (or even any decent team for that matter), although I definitely wouldn’t keep him on as this continuity thing we’ve done where we stick an old boy into the new manager’s team has failed drastically. Conte or not, let the man bring his own coaching staff in and start again from a clean slate.
Then you have the less noticeable people in the coaching staff. Mark Dempsey has managed many an illustrious club, in Haugesund, Djurgarden and Start, and has been Ole’s assistant at Molde. Essentially, he got the job from being Ole’s mate. The most laughable one though, is Eric Ramsey. Hyped up as this super set piece coach from Chelsea after his appointment in the summer, with no one mentioning that it was indeed, Chelsea u-23’s. And that after coaching at Shrewsbury and Swansea. Lo and behold, we’re still conceding loads of goals from corners.
This is why I believe we’ll never get out of this rut with this coaching team - they’ve never done it before. Essentially, they’re past coaching experience has either been in obscure countries or youth teams. How can we trust them, especially when managers and coaching teams who have won title after title are available?
Outside the coaching team, we have Darren Fletcher as the technical director, once again only hired because he played for us with no experience elsewhere, and John Murtough as Director of Football. Seriously, who is John Murtough? He doesn’t even have a Wikipedia page.
Then you have the less noticeable people in the coaching staff. Mark Dempsey has managed many an illustrious club, in Haugesund, Djurgarden and Start, and has been Ole’s assistant at Molde. Essentially, he got the job from being Ole’s mate. The most laughable one though, is Eric Ramsey. Hyped up as this super set piece coach from Chelsea after his appointment in the summer, with no one mentioning that it was indeed, Chelsea u-23’s. And that after coaching at Shrewsbury and Swansea. Lo and behold, we’re still conceding loads of goals from corners.
This is why I believe we’ll never get out of this rut with this coaching team - they’ve never done it before. Essentially, they’re past coaching experience has either been in obscure countries or youth teams. How can we trust them, especially when managers and coaching teams who have won title after title are available?
Outside the coaching team, we have Darren Fletcher as the technical director, once again only hired because he played for us with no experience elsewhere, and John Murtough as Director of Football. Seriously, who is John Murtough? He doesn’t even have a Wikipedia page.
It is utterly extraordinary.
Who is Chris Chiang and what his remit is at the club, is explained below by the guys at TGG, who are known to have the very best people from within the football fraternity to pass judgement on the likes of Chiang and Murtough, who they also speak about. I urge you to read the below piece and educate yourself on Chiang's role at the club.
One colleague told TGG: “Chris is a very impressive guy. He pieces together big projects for us, ranging from huge detail to the granular stuff.”
"Recently, the Warwick University graduate (pictured) has played a leading role in developing the club's data science strategy, with the ultimate objective of creating the best department of its kind in world football"
https://trainingground.guru/articles/why-young-strategy-executive-is-so-important-to-man-utd
One colleague told TGG: “Chris is a very impressive guy. He pieces together big projects for us, ranging from huge detail to the granular stuff.”
"Recently, the Warwick University graduate (pictured) has played a leading role in developing the club's data science strategy, with the ultimate objective of creating the best department of its kind in world football"
https://trainingground.guru/articles/why-young-strategy-executive-is-so-important-to-man-utd
I say this 'til I'm blue in the face when everyone talks about "sacking Ole". We need to get rid of the decision makers at the club as they're not football people. We should have started with whoever signed off on Moyes. These people have no idea how to run a successful football club and are employing people who may not either. And even worse, eve since SAF left and Moyes came in we've shed people who might have actually had more idea, at every level of the club.
We're doomed to repeat this cycle of 2 or 3 years managerial merry-go-round. With maybe the odd trophy, if we're lucky
Controversially, I'd say keep Ole, get better coaches! I've always thought that Ole is probably a decent motivator & man manager. You might even look at how we've often played on emotion, needing to come back and win so many games as evidence.
Did anyone else remember, even under SAF, that the football was better over all when Quieroz was in post rather than Phelan? Not a pop at Phelan, just that coaches play a bigger part than is given credit for. Especially when there gets to be so much noise over sacking the manager
Did anyone else remember, even under SAF, that the football was better over all when Quieroz was in post rather than Phelan? Not a pop at Phelan, just that coaches play a bigger part than is given credit for. Especially when there gets to be so much noise over sacking the manager
Yup. This is the bigger picture. The changes at the club really needed are off the pitch and involves major surgery
I wonder what Pep's first coaching job was after he stopped playing????
Why would OGS want to bin off his mates though? Phelan, Carrick and McKenna have all been noted to get new deals. He seems happy with them and wants to work with them longer.
Are we going to force a coach on him? How long before this hypothetical super talented coach wonders he could do OGS’ job? It wouldn’t work well anyway. Rodgers got forced McAllister and O’Driscoll on him and that didn’t last long.
It reeks of when Liverpool brought in Houllier to co-manage with Evans, who they desperately didn’t want to bin ‘cos boot room nostalgia and all that. That didn’t last long and Houllier took over completely and Liverpool actually looked more threatening in the league to us and they actually won stuff.
When we had Phelan as the assistant manager for SAF we never played amazing football. Honestly, we never actually destroyed teams as we did prior. The best was in 07/08 season and I don't think Phelan was involved with the coaching.
We need a total revamp with the coaches and manager of this club.
We need a total revamp with the coaches and manager of this club.
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