Alvaro Fernandez (Out)

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lex talionis said:
Is Malacia so outstanding that Alvaro shouldn’t even be given a chance?

I like Malacia as a decent squad man, but Alvaro in the limited amount of time we’ve seen him looks a far better prospect.
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I’m sorry but that is a wild statement. I’m not saying that Fernandez couldn’t have been given a go instead of Regulion, but Malacia has 100 appearances in the Dutch league, 10 caps for Holland and was fairly solid in his first season for us. Fernandez hasn’t played a single minute of premier league football and did okay at wing back in the championship.

I understand the age difference but people seem to be mad when we let youth players hang around too long and then mad because we aren’t able to sell them for a profit. We’ve got another extremely talented left back in the academy, the best long term move is to make the profit now.

He isn’t getting in the first 11 for a team that’s probably getting relegated in La Liga. I’d be amazed if he is ready to be a back up left back for a top Champions League team in the next two years, and that’s where we need to be aiming.
 
lex talionis said:
I'm sure it's right in front of me but I don't see it...what's the amount on the buyback clause?

Opinions only, but this kid looks to me to have much more potential than Malacia and when he sheds the baby fat has the body for the PL.
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Exactly. I have no idea how much the buyback amount is. But this kid looks like Alonso mk II in the making. I do think in Manutd he probably will never have critical playing time for his development. Benfica can really give him that platform. Hope people here can keep posting his development.
 
Paul778 said:
We are clearly trying to clear some FFP headroom for INEOS to work with. There would be nothing worse then hiring Mitchell and hamstringing him with a miniscule budget due to FFP. Not that i want him to spend big individually but there is so much to fix.
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The first thing to do is to fire and/or demote a bunch of people who are responsible for the last two summer transfer window.
 
Dan_F said:
I’m sorry but that is a wild statement. I’m not saying that Fernandez couldn’t have been given a go instead of Regulion, but Malacia has 100 appearances in the Dutch league, 10 caps for Holland and was fairly solid in his first season for us. Fernandez hasn’t played a single minute of premier league football and did okay at wing back in the championship.

I understand the age difference but people seem to be mad when we let youth players hang around too long and then mad because we aren’t able to sell them for a profit. We’ve got another extremely talented left back in the academy, the best long term move is to make the profit now.

He isn’t getting in the first 11 for a team that’s probably getting relegated in La Liga. I’d be amazed if he is ready to be a back up left back for a top Champions League team in the next two years, and that’s where we need to be aiming.
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Don't get me wrong as I'm not here to suggest that Malacia is shite, but neither has he really shown us that much either, and by all accounts had a few atrocious performances for us last season. After our experiences with other stars in the Dutch I really don't want to hear how the Dutch league prepares anyone, except Ruud, for the Premier League.

Shaw is 28 and has at least four seasons of top level performances left in him. Malacia is 24 and at best he's "solid", as you say, but he's going to stagnate behind Shaw during his peak years 24-28. Alvaro Fernandez is only 20 -- yes, he obviously has a learning curve to work through -- and by the time Shaw is done Fernandez will be ready to step in full time. Or may, we just don't know. But the Malacia you see at 24 is the Malacia will see at 28. The Fernandez you see 20 will be a very different footballer at 24.

If the buyback clause is a modest 10m or so then fair play. We let Alvaro develop in a lesser league and if he lights it up we buy him back at the 10m and if he flops we dodged a bullet. But the idea that we don't need Alvaro because we're already stocked with Malacia is based on the questionable assumption that Malacia will ever have the physical presence requires of a PL LB as he certainly doesn't have it yet.
 
If there's a buyback then this is a good deal, otherwise it's terrible. I watched him for a few games for Granada this and he looked very good. The fact that he often plays in LW/midfield is usually a good sign that a player is better than just being asked to stay back.
 
RedDevilQuebecois said:
And I see no reason why he even should. Malacia was noticeably worse than Alvaro during preseason prior to the injury.
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I didn't think Malacia played any minutes this pre-season?

Edit: Also weird to see a lot of crying for a lad who can't get a starting spot for a team in the relegation zone of la Liga. Hope he does well and moving him on will be good for his development and our finances.
 
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lex talionis said:
Don't get me wrong as I'm not here to suggest that Malacia is shite, but neither has he really shown us that much either, and by all accounts had a few atrocious performances for us last season. After our experiences with other stars in the Dutch I really don't want to hear how the Dutch league prepares anyone, except Ruud, for the Premier League.

Shaw is 28 and has at least four seasons of top level performances left in him. Malacia is 24 and at best he's "solid", as you say, but he's going to stagnate behind Shaw during his peak years 24-28. Alvaro Fernandez is only 20 -- yes, he obviously has a learning curve to work through -- and by the time Shaw is done Fernandez will be ready to step in full time. Or may, we just don't know. But the Malacia you see at 24 is the Malacia will see at 28. The Fernandez you see 20 will be a very different footballer at 24.

If the buyback clause is a modest 10m or so then fair play. We let Alvaro develop in a lesser league and if he lights it up we buy him back at the 10m and if he flops we dodged a bullet. But the idea that we don't need Alvaro because we're already stocked with Malacia is based on the questionable assumption that Malacia will ever have the physical presence requires of a PL LB as he certainly doesn't have it yet.
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Oh aye. So we’ve never seen a 24 year old have an average stint in the premier league and be a lot better by the time they’re 28? Salah joined Chelsea at 22, left at 24. KDB left Chelsea at 23. You’re acting like this is football manager and development only happens between 16 and 24.

For what is worth, I think Shaw’s on borrowed time at United and the club would do well to move him on, or make him a centre back, and find another left back now - if we had the money. I have zero faith that Shaw will be able to find his best form again at 28 for a whole host of reasons that I won’t derail the thread with.

You’ve also not mentioned the really highly rated left back in the academy. Proper squad planning means we’re getting the money for Fernandez now because we don’t think he’s good enough and we see a gap for Amass in the next two years.
 
Dan_F said:
Oh aye. So we’ve never seen a 24 year old have an average stint in the premier league and be a lot better by the time they’re 28? Salah joined Chelsea at 22, left at 24. KDB left Chelsea at 23. You’re acting like this is football manager and development only happens between 16 and 24.

For what is worth, I think Shaw’s on borrowed time at United and the club would do well to move him on, or make him a centre back, and find another left back now - if we had the money. I have zero faith that Shaw will be able to find his best form again at 28 for a whole host of reasons that I won’t derail the thread with.

You’ve also not mentioned the really highly rated left back in the academy. Proper squad planning means we’re getting the money for Fernandez now because we don’t think he’s good enough and we see a gap for Amass in the next two years.
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You may wish to reconsider your comparison of Tyrell Malacia to Mo Salah and Kevin DeBryune. I'm all for bigging up our own players, comparing our backup B to of the top five players on the planet is a bit over the top.
 
Cloudface said:
I didn't think Malacia played any minutes this pre-season?

Edit: Also weird to see a lot of crying for a lad who can't get a starting spot for a team in the relegation zone of la Liga. Hope he does well and moving him on will be good for his development and our finances.
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Tbf the likes of Elanga, Mengi and Chong did need to move on to develop. Garner I think should've stayed since midfield is a hard position and he started and was promoted with Nottingham at the age of 20. Didn't get much for him and Perreira another we didn't get much for.

For Alvaro I see a lot of people mention him not starting for Granada or playing for Preston, but I think it's better to watch him and judge. I caught him live twice this season and he looked really good. He started the last game and they won that. That he hasn't started most of their losses is probably a plus in his favour. I think it was the Barca-Granada game I watched where he started and they drew 2-2, defensively he was a rock. Since then he's had about 2 or so other starts, both weirdly in the LW forward position (not even midfield), both losses. For Preston if I recall a lot of Preston supporters rated him highly, and they were close to a play off spot last season.

I can't judge him fully as my sample size is quite small but I'd be wary of letting our coaches and scouts judge player ability, given they're regularly spending £70m a pop on the likes of Mount and Antony. If there's no buyback in place this could end up being a pretty poor deal for us. £10m isn't really all that much when we spent more on Malacia who's very likely not as good as Alvaro.
 
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lex talionis said:
You may wish to reconsider your comparison of Tyrell Malacia to Mo Salah and Kevin DeBryune. I'm all for bigging up our own players, comparing our backup B to of the top five players on the planet is a bit over the top.
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I’m quite clearly not saying that Malacia is as good as KDB and Salah now, or even as good as when they got let go from Chelsea. I’m using them as an example of a player that can improve significantly after they are 24 years old.

I’m sure you knew that, but couldn’t be bothered to think of a counter argument.
 
Dan_F said:
I’m quite clearly not saying that Malacia is as good as KDB and Salah now, or even as good as when they got let go from Chelsea. I’m using them as an example of a player that can improve significantly after they are 24 years old.

I’m sure you knew that, but couldn’t be bothered to think of a counter argument.
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Then why compare Malacia in the same sentence to Salah and DeBruyne? It’s absurd to put Malacia into any context with Salah and DeBruyne other than the fact that they are all professional footballers. There is zero chance that Malacia will ever develop into a world class footballer, as Salah and DeBruyne have.

This would be a good time to take the tin foil hat off and come up with another argument.
 
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lex talionis said:
Then why compare Malacia in the same sentence to Salah and DeBruyne? It’s absurd to put Malacia into any context with Salah and DeBruyne other than the fact that they are all professional footballers. There is zero chance that Malacia will ever develop into a world class footballer, as Salah and DeBruyne have.

This would be a good time to take the tin foil hat off and come up with another argument.
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My argument is simply that footballers can develop between the ages of 24 and 28 to become better players. Do you agree or disagree?
 
Based Adnan said:
Benfica don't do buybacks. At best we'll get a sell on clause imo and/or maybe first refusal.
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A sell on is fine. If he’s any good Benfica will sell for a big profit like they always do.
José Mateus said:
10M€ apparently

Is he any good?
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My impression has always been that he’s a little on the slower side but a real weapon going forward. Marcos Alonso was a comparison I remember being made a few times. I have no idea if that’s translated at top level football — he’s barely played much for Malaga this season.
 
RedDevilQuebecois said:
And I see no reason why he even should. Malacia was noticeably worse than Alvaro during preseason prior to the injury.
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Malacia is not a very good player and I'd wager he'll never make it at a top team. He's like Amrabat in that he can receive the ball well enough and is half decent technically (controlling and passing on) but he's physically subpar and shits himself when he's in the final third. Don't think I've ever seen him put in a good cross. Always looks like he's running fast but because of his small stature he's eating up no ground. He was cheap and maybe he's worth keeping around as Rashford's football friend but I would be keeping Fernandez all day ahead of him.
 


We've had Malacia, Shaw and Reguilon all out. He would have featured this season! Should have been given a chance, especially with Shaw's injury record.
 
Not a bad price for a player that’s not really shown any sign of playing much for us, and we need to raise funds for FFP
 
Interested in seeing how he does in a team playing on the front foot. Think he'll be class, and linked with a big money move to PSG in a few years.
 
Malacia is shite enough. Hopefully armass will put some pressure on shaw shaw bings.
 
Dan_F said:
My argument is simply that footballers can develop between the ages of 24 and 28 to become better players. Do you agree or disagree?
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Using Salah and DeBruyne to make a point about the future of Malacia is, shall we say, open to question.

But can Malacia develop between the ages of 24 and 28 in any way like the way Salah and DeBruyne did? I'm no prophet, but I would say no. Those two were exceptional footballers already by the age of 24. Malacia is a decent squad man for a struggling club but it cannot be said of Malacia that he is in any way an exceptional footballer. At the age of 25 Salah was starting for Liverpool and at the age of 24 DeBruyne was starting for City and both were by every possible metric imaginable substantially superior footballers to Tyrell Malacia. Both were exceptional at 24 and both are world class today.

(I can't believe this is even a conversation...what's next, comparing Hojlund to Messi?)

No one on the planet would argue that Tyrell Malacia is on track to becoming one of the greatest LBs in the world. Maybe that's exactly what will happen when he turns 28, but there's nothing about his ability or athleticism that screams destined to be world class. We also don't know what Fernandez's destiny may be, but what is undeniable is that the development of most professional footballers is much greater between 20 and 24 than between 24 and 28. Fernandez is already better on the ball than Malacia, but he obviously has less top level experience than Malacia -- probably because he's four years younger. But there's very little doubt that the development we'll see in Fernandez between the ages of 20 and 24 will be substantially greater than the development for Malacia between the ages of 24 and 28. When a player hits 24, 25, 26 he is who he is as a footballer. The Malacia you see now (last season of course) is the Malacia you're going to see next season and the season after that. Maybe some marginal improvement, but nothing close to world class. There's no guarantee that Fernandez will be world class, but he looks more likely to reach near-world class level when he's 24, the same time Malacia turns 28. But it's even more likely that neither will, but in terms of what United need from a LB when Shaw is out with injury is a threat going forward and Fernandez already has more game going forward than Malacia.
 
Players that are as slow as a wet week are not suited to England.
Hopefully the kid has a good future in Portugal and Benfica always seem to make huge money on average players when they sell on so we may as well jump on the bandwagon.
 
Stop talking sense @Dan_F

Any reason to slag off United MUST be taken! We can’t have you posting common sense like that!
 
3KDré said:


We've had Malacia, Shaw and Reguilon all out. He would have featured this season! Should have been given a chance, especially with Shaw's injury record.
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He isn't good enough at the moment, end of. He doesn't have the right defensive skillset yet for a club like United and may never have it. Best for all parties he gets a move away where they will look at developing him with a long term outlook.
 
lex talionis said:
Using Salah and DeBruyne to make a point about the future of Malacia is, shall we say, open to question.

But can Malacia develop between the ages of 24 and 28 in any way like the way Salah and DeBruyne did? I'm no prophet, but I would say no. Those two were exceptional footballers already by the age of 24. Malacia is a decent squad man for a struggling club but it cannot be said of Malacia that he is in any way an exceptional footballer. At the age of 25 Salah was starting for Liverpool and at the age of 24 DeBruyne was starting for City and both were by every possible metric imaginable substantially superior footballers to Tyrell Malacia. Both were exceptional at 24 and both are world class today.

(I can't believe this is even a conversation...what's next, comparing Hojlund to Messi?)

No one on the planet would argue that Tyrell Malacia is on track to becoming one of the greatest LBs in the world. Maybe that's exactly what will happen when he turns 28, but there's nothing about his ability or athleticism that screams destined to be world class. We also don't know what Fernandez's destiny may be, but what is undeniable is that the development of most professional footballers is much greater between 20 and 24 than between 24 and 28. Fernandez is already better on the ball than Malacia, but he obviously has less top level experience than Malacia -- probably because he's four years younger. But there's very little doubt that the development we'll see in Fernandez between the ages of 20 and 24 will be substantially greater than the development for Malacia between the ages of 24 and 28. When a player hits 24, 25, 26 he is who he is as a footballer. The Malacia you see now (last season of course) is the Malacia you're going to see next season and the season after that. Maybe some marginal improvement, but nothing close to world class. There's no guarantee that Fernandez will be world class, but he looks more likely to reach near-world class level when he's 24, the same time Malacia turns 28. But it's even more likely that neither will, but in terms of what United need from a LB when Shaw is out with injury is a threat going forward and Fernandez already has more game going forward than Malacia.
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Shall I give you a recap of this conversation.

You’d said Fernandez is a better prospect because Malacia won’t get any better. I tell you 24 year olds can improve, with two rather obvious examples. You then spend a whole page telling me Malacia isn’t KDB or Salah, even though I’ve explained three times that I’m only using them to show player development doesn’t stop at 24. Absolute weirdo :lol:

For what it’s worth, I don’t think Malacia is good enough either.
 
pascell said:
He isn't good enough at the moment, end of. He doesn't have the right defensive skillset yet for a club like United and may never have it. Best for all parties he gets a move away where they will look at developing him with a long term outlook.
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I remember the same said of Mengi, Garner, Elanga and Gomes. I understand they need games to find their level, but I would argue we could have given all of Garner's minutes to McTominay this season and been a better team for it. Same with Mengi/Evans, Elanga/Antony.
 
Dan_F said:
Shall I give you a recap of this conversation.

You’d said Fernandez is a better prospect because Malacia won’t get any better. I tell you 24 year olds can improve, with two rather obvious examples. You then spend a whole page telling me Malacia isn’t KDB or Salah, even though I’ve explained three times that I’m only using them to show player development doesn’t stop at 24. Absolute weirdo :lol:

For what it’s worth, I don’t think Malacia is good enough either.
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What's "weird" -- more like absurd-- is using the examples Salah and DeBruyne, two of the greatest players in PL history, to make any kind of point about a squad man for Manchester United. Salah and DeBruyne were already exceptional footballers at the age Malacia is right now.

The better argument is that Malacia is already good enough now to succeed Shaw, should Shaw go down with a season-ending injury. I don't think Malacia is good enough right now to hold the LB position for us for a season, whereas I do know Fernandez is NOT good enough, right now, to hold down that position. But the good news is that Shaw is coming back soon and that we have a capable stand-in player in Dalot so we've muddled along well enough at the LB position in what has become a wretched season. Malacia should be given a chance to show what he's got if he comes back this season, but based on what we saw from him last he has a long way to go to be the kind of LB we really need. He's tidy, but not much more than that. The kind of improvement you hope from him as a 24 year old already just isn't going to happen. Malacia doesn't have world class potential whereas everyone could see when Salah and DeBruyne were 24 that that they had world class potential. No guarantee that they would get there -- that's the nature of potential -- but there's no denying they had the potential and there's no denying that Malacia does not have potential. Fernandez is still just a 20 year old and it's impossible to say where he''ll be with his development at 24, let alone 28.
 
marktan said:
Tbf the likes of Elanga, Mengi and Chong did need to move on to develop. Garner I think should've stayed since midfield is a hard position and he started and was promoted with Nottingham at the age of 20. Didn't get much for him and Perreira another we didn't get much for.
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I agree with Elanga, Mengi, Chong, Garner etc needing to go for their development, and Fernandez looks set to join that list. We got half decent fees for Elanga and Garner, certainly by our usual standards. On one hand it's good to see us being more decisive, cashing in, rather than players wasting away in the reserves and/or running their contracts down which we have tended to do previously. I certainly would have kept Garner, his attributes and positional sense would have been more useful for the first team than McTominay or Amrabat in my opinion.

My reservation with this trend in general is that I have doubts whether the decisions are truly being made for footballing reasons, or if its pressure to balance the books. Of course there's always an element of both, but given that first team players generally cost in the region of £40-80m these days, statistically its likely one or more of these sales will look bad in a few years. I suppose if we sell 10 youth players for 5-15 million, and 1 turns out to be a top quality player on a few years, it would make business sense. I just hope the decisions are being made by footballing people who know what they're doing and have made reasoned assessments, rather than being made by money men seeking to offload assets for the balance sheet. If over the next few years 3 or 4 of these players become top quality players then we will have egg on our face.

Only time will tell how the strategy works for us. Also re: Chelsea selling Salah and KDB, its also worth noting that these were two of literally dozens, maybe 100+ young players Chelsea bought and sold over a few years. They regularly had something insane like 40 odd players out on loan. If you're doing it on that scale you're going to have some that don't look like good sales in hindsight, but if we're only selling a small number per season and a few become top players, then the decisions will face tough scrutiny.
 
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