Our ex players are super delusional. All pundits are.
Alternatives to Jadon Sancho
- Thread starter Highfather_24
- Start date
Also not very good
I wholeheartedly agree
Next summer CD an CDM for the reasons stated above. Buy Sancho only if the price is under 100M we are not desperate now. And maybe we won't even need him.
Not enough assist that’s the issue.
We need creativity on the width. Having creativity in different area is important, because we rely our creativity so much through the middle from Bruno & Pogba, opposition team could anticipate it by defend narrow. We struggled to score against Sevilla because of this and their keeper easily predicted the situation from the beginning by always getting ready to coming out when through ball was on to close down the space of our forwards which is also why he managed to pull those good saves.
We're talking about an 18 year old, a spectacular talent who score and does well in a league were Dortmund 'stars' had failed miserably in but a kid nevertheless. Give him regular football on the flanks and he'll do better. Sure creativity is important. However one must ask why we've bought a FB whose basically a converted CB as RB? What's the point of having 4 defensive CBs who create almost nothing when they can barely defend either? Why Ole had spent 130m in a defence that isn't very good in either defending or attacking? What happened with Bruno and Pogba and why their performance had bombed? Why have we signed a goal poacher when maybe a false 9 would had been a better option?
Greenwood is doing fine and we also bought 2 very promising kids. If even 1 of them makes it to top level then the RW position is probably sorted. If I was Manchester United's DOF I'd rather sort that walking disaster of a defence unit. We've got two FBs who create nothing, three central players (Matic, Maguire and Lindelof) with zero pace and a goalkeeper who wouldn't leave the line even if his own life depended on it. Someone like a young Anelka would feast on that defence and things will get worse with Telles as he will leave space at the back. That's what attacking wingbacks who are a Zanetti or a Maldini do.
So I'd say, sack the genius who spent 130m on that defence, sack the people around him who are able to turn stars into tripe few months after getting their hands on them, bring experienced people who understand football in. Sell DDG, promote Henderson and then spend another 130m on a top quality DM and a quality CB with PACE. We need that more then we need yet another winger who'll put Greenwood on the bench
Greenwood Pellistri and Diallo. One of them has to negate the need to splash 100m on Sancho
What you said is clearly irrelevant to the initial our argument, the fact is that we need creative on the width area which is the reason why the manager wanted to sign a creative winger who can create chances. Someone who can beat player, cross to score easy tap in goal. We don’t have that right now especially on the right flank.
For me Sancho on the RW doesnt really wow me.
I see him coming more due to his ability to play all of LW, CAM and RW rather than just being the RW we needed all this time. He brings versatility yet quality all across our front line.
He is a player I want at United more because he looks to be one of the best young English players that have settled in a foreign league rather than anything else.
I see him coming more due to his ability to play all of LW, CAM and RW rather than just being the RW we needed all this time. He brings versatility yet quality all across our front line.
He is a player I want at United more because he looks to be one of the best young English players that have settled in a foreign league rather than anything else.
The only alternative to Sancho is Greenwood. Everyone else is a downgrade if we are talking numbers. At this point it's about finding Greenwood competition
We should still sign him. Move Mason centrally in a couple of years and you'll nearly have one of the deadliest front 3s set for the foreseeable future.
Football is a team game. We didn't struggle with having Ji Sung Park or Valencia (final years as winger) creating almost nothing because we had players compensating for that in the form of Evra, Ronaldo, Scholes, RVP etc. Greenwood is not the problem. Our lack of coaching, tactics and a stable/balanced side is.
If we had solid defensive unit instead of Matic, Lindelof and Tortoise then we wouldn't need 2 defensive FBs. We could instead opt for 2 attacking wingbacks who'll create a horde of crosses and assists from the rear flanks. Meanwhile a well coached Pogba/Bruno would create chances from the middle. Greenwood, Rashy and Martial would be waiting to convert those chances into goals. Instead we wasted 130m on a FB whose useless going forward and CB that needs CBs with brains and pace to carry him.
Valencia, Young & Nani were our creative wingers, beat man and create chances in width. And then we have Carrick & Scholes or even Giggs in his latest years to provide creativity in the middle. And let’s not pretend Rooney isn’t creative attacker.
Don’t compare them to Greenwood who is a much more natural goalscorer. Ole’s intention is to have creativity from middle & width is understandable.
Most of our players can’t do the basics correctly. Crosses for instance, when was the last time we scored from a corner? Defending corners is hopeless but I don’t see DeGea as a keeper that comes for crosses and our defenders are all flatfooted. Get the basics right before you can create anything. You can’t create anything if you lose the ball all the time or can’t pass to a colleague. Truly shocking some off the stuff dished out by these players just now.
Pellistri and Diallo have already been signed. Don't expect anyone of note for that position for the next few years.
Valencia (his last years as winger) and Young were barely creative. Hence why they were moved as full backs. Giggs was a midfielder in his later years. United kept winning because they were properly managed, they were properly coached and the team was well balanced. Rafael and Evra provided us with the lack of width, Valencia and Young did the donkey work which in turn allowed an ageing Giggs/Scholes + Carrick more time to create upfront. The chances were fewer then with previous United sides but RVP could turn them into goals.
Now with Telles we have a player that is dangerous out wide on the left. We need a right winger that provides width on the right(Sancho doesn't) because Awb can't do that. Unless we want to get a better attacking right back
You have confused yourself with creative and top class creative player. Both Valencia & Young are still considered as creative player. What’s their role, to create chances. What’s Greenwood? To score goals. Did they defend narrow to stop us? No because they know Valencia, Young & Nani were still threat to create chance.
Did Sevilla and other teams defend narrow against us last season to stop us? Yes. Because our creativity source is from central, we don’t have someone to provide the creativity in the width area. Hence why the manager wanted creative winger which understandable. I don’t give a feck whether it’s winger or attacking full back. What you need to understand is that the manager understand the problem which something he tried to fix during summer transfer window.
Valencia towards the end of his career as winger couldn't even cross the ball successfully. They weren't creative, they just fitted the system. The likes of Valencia, Young and Cleverley allowed an ageing Scholes/Giggs + Carrick to create chances. We also had wingbacks like Evra and Rafael giving us width while RVP could convert the declining chances we gave the forward line into goals.
The ability to analyse the squad and to be able to maintain its success around the limited resources given is called management. It's so easy to win games with a 200m rated defence and 500m rated midfield (Jadon and Rashy on the flanks, Bruno and Pogba in CM, Greenwood and Grealish on the bench).
There is no way Sir Alex would spend 100m to put Greenwood on the bench especially with Traore and Pellistri added to the squad.
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We don’t have creativity on width and we need one so team won’t stop us by just defending narrow. Simple we need one whether it’s attacking full back or creative winger, we need something. Sir Alex is irrelevant in this topic.
Opposition teams viewed Young & Valencia as threat who can create chance thus why opposition team don’t just defend narrow against us and instead they are trying to close them down, stretch the team out, I don’t think I can do anything better to make you understand that.
In modern football, width is provided by the wing backs with wingers acting as inside forwards. In fact, Liverpool's wingbacks have a record number of assists. To achieve that one has to have a solid central unit (GK, 2 CB and DM) as they need to cover for the space left by the wingbacks.
Ole opted for an outdated system with 4 defensive defenders. The advantage of that is that our defence leak less goals which makes the manager looks good (imagine spending 130m on a defence that still leaks goals) However it also put huge pressure in midfield who have to basically shoulder all the creativity themselves. I dare to say that what we're asking from our midfield goes beyond to what Sir Alex asked from the treble side and the 2008 side. Those teams had the likes of Irwin, Evra and Gaz in them which could go forward and create chances.
That explains why Ole wouldn't want to compromise on attacking midfielders. He wanted Sancho and Grealish as he desperately needs their assists and goals. He also can't afford weakening the defence by playing 2 attacking wingbacks because he knows that Lindelof and his beloved Maguire won't cope with that. They need the cover provided by AWB and Shaw. Scholes on the other hand think that the solution is to add a goal poacher upfront. That won't increase creativity but it would certainly increase the chances to goals conversion significantly.
In my opinion both legends are papering the cracks. United need a GK, 2 CB and a DM that they can rely upon. That would in turn allow us to utilise 2 quality attacking wingbacks. Greenwood, Rashford/Martial, VDB/Pogba and Bruno would then focus on creativity and that would lead to goals. In short Ole wasted 130m and he wants some 250m worth of talent to cover for it.
The original discussion was started with you talking about Greenwood scoring 10 league goals on flanks which I replied to you that Ole is trying to sign creative winger to provide creativity on width because we don’t have one. None of Bissaka, Greenwood & Rashford are creative winger. A defensive full backs and two goalscorer.
His plan was a Winger, wide forward and striker as his trio attackers for balance. And he also wanted one attacking full back, 2 ball playing centre back and one defensive full back for balance. Fans don’t like it that’s fan’s opinion but doesn’t mean it won’t work. Bayern who won everything last season in modern football has creative winger like Sane/Perisic, Coman & Gnabry. Can beat men and put cross in to score easy tap in.
Managers have to work with what they got, especially if the talent given is great. United have 3 top quality inside forwards in Rashy, Martial and Greenwood. Greenwood is probably the most talented of the lot and is possibly the most talented 18 year old in the world. What he did as a RW is astronomical. It would be stupid to buy a 100m rated winger and drop him. If Ole wants to manage a side like Bayern then he should send a CV with a list of all his trophies and achievements. I very much doubt it would be accepted though.
That doesn't mean that there aren't work arounds to that, something Ole should have anticipated and sorted. For example width could be provided by wingbacks. That's what many sides do after all. To achieve that you have to have 2 decent attacking wingbacks and a central defensive unit that is reliable. Instead Ole refuse to play Henderson, he ignored the DM role and he spent 130m on 2 very average defenders that do not have the characteristics to provide that to United only to ask another 200m worth of talent. That's not how football work, at least unless the club can rely on the finances provided by a state.
He is working with what he got now that transfer window closed. However, doesn’t mean he’s not allowed to build what he wants when transfer window open and the board never say it’s impossible to buy the player. It’s not his fault that the board didn’t give him the message or notice earlier that the club can’t afford the targets, if he was told earlier, the manager would have make alternative plan for it. That’s how proper football club works. Real told Zidane before transfer window open that the club won’t be buying anyone, it makes the manager’s job easier. Bayern did the same thing to his manager about Perisic which makes the manager’s job easier.
Heard that the Diallo lad could be good.
I am not suggesting that our board is operating effectively. The very fact that Ole is our manager is proof enough that it is not the case. However very few managers get what always ask especially if they constantly ask for expensive buys.
How did you arrive at this conclusion?
Telles/Reguilon, Bissaka, Sancho, Haland, Maguire and he rates Lindelof over Smalling. It should give the idea there.
I would have loved to see Sancho here and would love to see him still... but we just signed Diallo. Let's give him a chance and see if he can develop into the player we need. If Greenwood and him are going well after 18 months - if not let's revisit RW then.
I'm not sure how Canavi will pan out but we need an equivalent to Cavani or 5 years ago. We need a striker who provides a threat in the air, who can link up play, who can hold it up and has an eye for goal.
This way we have healthy competition across our attack. In order of preference...
LW Rashford/Martial/James
RW Greenwood/Diallo
ST new CF/Martial/Rashford
OIf course if Sancho was suddenly available he's the sort of talent you make room for.
I'm not sure how Canavi will pan out but we need an equivalent to Cavani or 5 years ago. We need a striker who provides a threat in the air, who can link up play, who can hold it up and has an eye for goal.
This way we have healthy competition across our attack. In order of preference...
LW Rashford/Martial/James
RW Greenwood/Diallo
ST new CF/Martial/Rashford
OIf course if Sancho was suddenly available he's the sort of talent you make room for.
How? What proof?
You said in attack Ole wants a wide forward(Rashford) striker(Martial/Haaland) and a winger, which I'm guessing is Sancho. But Sancho is more of a wide forward than a winger(I'm assuming you mean someone that stays wide). Sancho doesn't stay wide and tends to cut in. Given Awb is more of a defensive fullback, the plan for the right wing should be someone that keeps the width and Sancho isn't that.
Wow, is this your argument about. Whatever you want to call it, he’s a creative player who provides creativity on width. He knows how to beat full backs and put cross in.
In a nutshell - you're saying Sancho is a better version of Greenwood. We drop Greenwood to play Sancho. Or we could just just save £108m. Better still: spend it elsewhere - like on a CB.
This is my first time watching him I think, but Daniel Podence for Wolves looks rather decent. Like a Portuguese version of Hazard.
Calvin Stengs could be an alternative! But i think that the society that should change something! They persisted with Sancho beacause they didn't know any other solution!
Marcus Thuram remains my favourite alternative if we even bother, he can play on either wing or as a striker, he's got the pace and athleticism for the PL and I don't think Gladbach would demand a crazy fee.
Thuram is retired what are you talking about stop it
Thuram is nowhere near Sancho, I’m not even sure he’d make our starting 11
Definately.
That's £50m quid gambled on those two, there won't be any additional movement at RW for a good few years now.
I read this morning that United are interested in Adama Traore for £90m....
