Alternative midfield targets

Bastian

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So we're at an impasse with PSG over Ugarte, who will not by himself fix our midfield issues but as far as a defensive midfield role is concerned he's ticking almost all the boxes and he's not sloppy with his passing either, the drawbacks are aerial ability and passing range. There's been absolutely nothing on Zubimendi for a while and that seemed quite unlikely anyway, if Arsenal failed to entice him with a PL challenging side and playing in the CL, it's a big ask to get him on board. Neves has unfortunately gone to PSG for much less than what every report out of Portugal kept stating, and we've seen recent reports of Barca wanting to offload astronomically high earner de Jong, with no serious links to United.

I admit that I was getting all muppety over the potential of Zubimendi and Ugarte both joining, and then only today I started dreaming for a while of getting Ugarte and de Jong, allowing some major tactical flexibility in midfield and upfront.

There have been tentative links to Sander Berge of the mighty Burnley, and we're stuck with past it players Eriksen (on 150K a week) and Casemiro (on 350K a week, maybe less with no CL) with the latter having two years left on his deal. McTominay can't play midfield, and we're somehow hoping Collyer is more than just an engine and physicality, but actual technical ability. Mejbri is completely out of the picture it seems and he's in his last year of contract so the club should do the only sensible thing for the club and player, and sell him with a sell-on and buy-back clauses included. Mount has looked sharp (albeit not in front of goal) this pre-season and wonderkid Mainoo is obviously back from a well deserved time off. Donny has finally gone, which was maybe the second best piece of business by the club this summer I guess.

Have we been linked with anyone else - are the Caf scouts dreaming of alternative targets yet? Oh, and Amrabat, he's obviously not the answer, but I'd rather have him as a shield in front of the back four than Casemiro, which is a very very low bar.
 
We've been mentioned as being interested in Andre (fluminese) at £30mil and joao gomes (wolves) at £60mil in a tweet about 30 minutes ago as alternatives to Ugarte.

 
I'm so tired of this club when it comes to midfield. Almost a decade and a half it's needed a proper build, and we bring in a guy from Ajax just for him to decide he doesn't care about it anymore.

It's they main reason we have fallen behind, and the club can't be arsed to invest in it. I don't understand how we are so blind for the need to strengthen it significantly.
 
Rabiot would be the ultimate underwhelming short-gap signing. I wouldn't be against some young talent or maybe Ederson.
 
Get Ederson from Atalanta.

Judging from stats he's not the same defensive animal Ugarte is, but better in the air and more progressive with his passing, but lower pass completion rate. Seems to be linked quite a bit to Liverpool as well. At least we have good relations with Atalanta (shame about Scalvini's injury, would have been a wonderful centre back target).

We've been mentioned as being interested in Andre (fluminese) at £30mil and joao gomes (wolves) at £60mil in a tweet about 30 minutes ago as alternatives to Ugarte.



Just saw that. The price for Gomes bandied about seems to be 40m. Fairly steep, no? How good is Andre?
 
Andre would be great but he's not tested in Europe but he certainly has the skill set. As mentioned above, Alan Varela at Porto is a good call too, he's a beast but technically not as good as Andre.
 
Andre would be great but he's not tested in Europe but he certainly has the skill set. As mentioned above, Alan Varela at Porto is a good call too, he's a beast but technically not as good as Andre.

Varela doesn't seem to have very high defensive numbers going by fbref, but 70 attempted passes per game (95th percentile), 87,7% success rate (87th percentile), 7,13 progressive (87th percentile). Reads more like a deep lying playmaker. I know @Adnan likes him, which I take as a good sign (and it is better than Zubimendi's numbers there too, but he plays in a worse side in a better league in fairness, and he's a bit of an allrounder).
 
Youssouf Fofana, Guido Rodríguez and Martín Zubimendi are the names battered about.
 
Why haven't we been linked with Fabian Ruiz - seems Arsenal are linked with him and he's not lived up to expectations at PSG. What a player.
 
Varela doesn't seem to have very high defensive numbers going by fbref, but 70 attempted passes per game (95th percentile), 87,7% success rate (87th percentile), 7,13 progressive (87th percentile). Reads more like a deep lying playmaker. I know @Adnan likes him, which I take as a good sign (and it is better than Zubimendi's numbers there too, but he plays in a worse side in a better league in fairness, and he's a bit of an allrounder).
His Boca version where he did a lot of heavy lifting shows how he's a beast defensively but at Porto he has been used differently. He definitely can play hybrid roles. Andre's potential is just higher, he has it all, Fred's engine with great passing and positioning. He knows where to be to receive the ball and combines all the good parts of Ugartes game with great ball playing. Lack of European experience is an issue but ability wise, he'd be a great addition.
 
With Ugarte out of the picture, very disappointing, from those mentioned I'd give priority to Zubimendi. Good defensive midfielder that is also good on the ball, and compliments Mainoo better than the others. It would be a competent combo.

Fofana is more of a box-to-box midfielder and this team definitely doesn't need yet another one of those. He also isn't good enough, I don't think.

João Gomes shouldn't even be considered.
 
Hopefully the club are further down the line with any of these alternatives than has been reported.

But my gut feeling is that Ugarte is the only one we'll spend 'big' on this window - if we can reach agreement with PSG; and otherwise it'll be a cheap alternative for now - Amrabat or Rabiot - and a bigger fee paid for someone next summer.

Hopefully we either get Ugarte, or my gut feeling is wrong and we do bring in a similar level player instead. But my hopes / confidence of addressing the area with a top addition this window (like Ugarte) have been dwindling the last few weeks as things seemed to have stalled, and tonight's reports has me thinking we're more likely looking at Amrabat and / or Rabiot rather than the level of addition I was hoping for.
 
I'm still not convinced we won't be back in for Ugarte later in the window. It seems fairly obvious PSG plan on letting him go, it doesn't feel like a "we might sell him, we might keep him" scenario. He's barely been linked to any other big clubs as far as I'm aware, it would require a club who's richer than us to pay PSG's asking fee.

It's just frustrating how much posturing goes on and the length of time it takes to get these deals over the line.

When we inevitably buy him on 31st August, surely these clubs must think "you know, this deal we're agreeing on 31st August could have been the same deal we agreed 2 months ago if we hadn't been playing silly games wasting our own time and everyone's time."
 


I like the look of this guy


Ha, that move on 1:07 was slick.

I'm still not convinced we won't be back in for Ugarte later in the window. It seems fairly obvious PSG plan on letting him go, it doesn't feel like a "we might sell him, we might keep him" scenario. He's barely been linked to any other big clubs as far as I'm aware, it would require a club who's richer than us to pay PSG's asking fee.

It's just frustrating how much posturing goes on and the length of time it takes to get these deals over the line.

When we inevitably buy him on 31st August, surely these clubs must think "you know, this deal we're agreeing on 31st August could have been the same deal we agreed 2 months ago if we hadn't been playing silly games wasting our own time and everyone's time."

I think we're also trying to negotiate a few deals simultaneously so we don't want to be perceived as easy money in any of the ongoing negotiations. If the club can move swiftly to close the deals for de Ligt and Mazraoui and get them over the line this week I'd be more confident that we'll get a move on to bring in a quality DM. I guess I'm a bit of a brat, because I do not think a single midfielder is sufficient, as I don't consider Eriksen or Casemiro of anywhere close to the standard we need, especially not if we want to play a high line with serious intensity.

I certainly wouldn't mind it if the club brought in two young midfielders from South America or Eastern Europe, i.e. not from top European leagues, but there's been very little information going around. I guess Andre is the only one mentioned, so far. There was that Colombian during the Copa, but that was also tentative.
 
I guess I'm a bit of a brat, because I do not think a single midfielder is sufficient, as I don't consider Eriksen or Casemiro of anywhere close to the standard we need, especially not if we want to play a high line with serious intensity.

I certainly wouldn't mind it if the club brought in two young midfielders from South America or Eastern Europe, i.e. not from top European leagues, but there's been very little information going around. I guess Andre is the only one mentioned, so far. There was that Colombian during the Copa, but that was also tentative.
I agree, I wanted 3 midfielders at the start of the window.

However it doesn't look feasible to move on Casemiro, no one will pay us a significant fee and no one will pay his wages. Lack of Saudi interest screwed us.

However we can still get 2 CM's. Mctominay should be sold and we can force Eriksen out the door if we're ruthless to free up a spot.
 
I agree, I wanted 3 midfielders at the start of the window.

However it doesn't look feasible to move on Casemiro, no one will pay us a significant fee and no one will pay his wages. Lack of Saudi interest screwed us.

However we can still get 2 CM's. Mctominay should be sold and we can force Eriksen out the door if we're ruthless to free up a spot.

Yeah, I'm still hoping Eriksen will be moved on. But those recent quotes lead me to believe neither him nor Maguire have been told anything about the club wanting to move them on.

He’s a Mainoo type 8. Not remotely what we need (or at least not a priority). But solid player I agree. He’ll be good for them if they get it done b

It's a bit similar to signing de Jong. I'd sign either of them in a heartbeat. And also a defensive midfielder. Having three midfielders who are all top class for two slots, or if we are playing Bruno - at times - in a false nine, going with all four. Ruiz is also more physical and robust than Mainoo, so not exactly the same sort of player really. Certainly don't want him at Arsenal.
 


I like the look of this guy

Looks very interesting. Could be cheaper than the other targets, too. Haven't heard of him before tbh, but he seems to be rated highly by La Liga followers.

Pepelu is another player I like. Just had a great season with Valencia and reminds me a bit of Rodri.

Hugo Larsson at Frankfurt is another hidden gem. Is a profile that would fit us very well: https://totalfootballanalysis.com/a...023-24-scout-report-tactical-analysis-tactics

Lastly, Lucas-Gourna Douath (19) would be a talent I'd sign additionally as he would cost less than 20m.
 
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Ha, that move on 1:07 was slick.



I think we're also trying to negotiate a few deals simultaneously so we don't want to be perceived as easy money in any of the ongoing negotiations. If the club can move swiftly to close the deals for de Ligt and Mazraoui and get them over the line this week I'd be more confident that we'll get a move on to bring in a quality DM. I guess I'm a bit of a brat, because I do not think a single midfielder is sufficient, as I don't consider Eriksen or Casemiro of anywhere close to the standard we need, especially not if we want to play a high line with serious intensity.

I certainly wouldn't mind it if the club brought in two young midfielders from South America or Eastern Europe, i.e. not from top European leagues, but there's been very little information going around. I guess Andre is the only one mentioned, so far. There was that Colombian during the Copa, but that was also tentative.

Yeah, we need 2 midfielders that can play deeper.

Assuming we can shift Casemiro to Saudi and McTominay to Fulham, the obvious move is to bring in someone who can play #8 or #6, even if they're a bit of a punt, along with the proper #6 we need.

Mainoo can't play every game (and shouldn't at his age) and we'd have a proper backup for our #6, along with the odd game of Mount or Eriksen at #8.

Say it's Fofana and Ugarte, just because they're the ones we've been linked to a lot and seem likely to move (hard for PSG to turn down good money for their 5th CM, and they've got Moscardo in now as another DM, also seems like Neves might end up playing as a #6 under Lucho).

#10 - Bruno - Mount - Eriksen
#8 - Mainoo - Fofana - Mount/Eriksen/Collyer
#6 - Ugarte - Fofana - Collyer

I really do think McTominay should be sold because we've got Mount and McTominay is only useful as an attacking midfielder really, and those minutes can go to Mount now that he's healthy. And getting 20-25M for him pays for a passable DM/CM type assuming we don't screw it up. That's not a bad amount for that position. Fulham got a well known quantity in Joao Palhinha for that amount just 2 years ago. Wharton went for similar.
 
We were also linked to cheaper and talented players to get numbers in, what happened to that?
 
Mikel Merino for 30 mill is a bargain. Heading for Arsenal but we should keep at least try