All-Time XI Built Around Henry

Physiocrat said:
I like the idea but I think you want someone less traditional left winger for Henry to link with and allow him space to drift leftwards. I could see Gento and him getting in each others way. Put Rivelino left with Davids instead of Rikjaard (as he can pull on to the left flank) and I think that could work really nicely
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Think i read somewhere that Gento preferred having one header and one great poacher with his feet so that he would have options both to aim for the heads and put in the lower crosses and balls in. Apparently a lot of Puskas’ goals came through Gento. Just an anecdote though I read long ago and I dont have any footage or stats as such to back it up.

Puskas wasnt your traditional ideal partner to partner with a traditional winger either.

Of course, maybe putting Czibor on the left and Figo on the right might make it more easy on the eye.

Not a fan of Rivellino for that setup. Both the Madrid and Barca setups back then had wingers whose job was to run up the wing and stretch the pitch. Considering neither team had fullbacks, it worked quite well to have such elite traditional wingers.
 
idmanager said:
Puskas wasnt your traditional ideal partner to partner with a traditional winger either.
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We'll only in the sense that he wasn't a target man. IIRC even before Madrid Puskas dropped deeper as more of a playmaker. That's perfect as a second striker. My complaint with Henry is how often he drifted leftwards, I don't remember Puskas doing that. Also I don't think Puskas began as a winger either
 
I think you need to lower the ambitions of the entire team if it is to revolve around Henry. If you don't you just have usurpers... and Henry, and that is very easily achieved when talking about 'All-time'

You can forget all of the big guns: Pelé, Di Stefano, Cruyff and so on and so forth because the team immediately becomes theirs such was their force of personality and ability. Pelé is also a reductive player to use because he's like a cheat code which defeats the purpose of the exercise.

Henry was an EPL great and did decently on the relative scale outside of the league, but we're talking about gods or kings of the game of football here who eclipse the player the thread is about.

It's a tough exercise when you strip away the true elites and try and bring it all in-line to a comparative that affords Henry the chance to be the star of the team.
 
Physiocrat said:
We'll only in the sense that he wasn't a target man. IIRC even before Madrid Puskas dropped deeper as more of a playmaker. That's perfect as a second striker. My complaint with Henry is how often he drifted leftwards, I don't remember Puskas doing that. Also I don't think Puskas began as a winger either
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More of an inside left. Henry with the advent of modern football and lesser number of players upfront probably moved a bit more wider but wasnt really a huge threat till he entered the inside left zones. Although not calling them clones, I think tactically both will fit in each other’s teams quite well.
 
Physiocrat said:
I like the idea but I think you want someone less traditional left winger for Henry to link with and allow him space to drift leftwards. I could see Gento and him getting in each others way. Put Rivelino left with Davids instead of Rikjaard (as he can pull on to the left flank) and I think that could work really nicely
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Gento worked very well with Puskas, interchanging when Puskas wanted to go out wide, which was fairly often.
 
harms said:
Gento worked very well with Puskas, interchanging when Puskas wanted to go out wide, which was fairly often.
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Did he go that wide at Madrid? I really don't remember him doing that much although most of my memory is from the 1960 EC final and I watched that I long time ago
 
Fortitude said:
I think you need to lower the ambitions of the entire team if it is to revolve around Henry. If you don't you just have usurpers... and Henry, and that is very easily achieved when talking about 'All-time'

You can forget all of the big guns: Pelé, Di Stefano, Cruyff and so on and so forth because the team immediately becomes theirs such was their force of personality and ability. Pelé is also a reductive player to use because he's like a cheat code which defeats the purpose of the exercise.

Henry was an EPL great and did decently on the relative scale outside of the league, but we're talking about gods or kings of the game of football here who eclipse the player the thread is about.

It's a tough exercise when you strip away the true elites and try and bring it all in-line to a comparative that affords Henry the chance to be the star of the team.
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Actually agree with this, half the teams here you can replace Henry with any other good striker and the team won't lose out on much.
 
MJJ said:
Actually agree with this, half the teams here you can replace Henry with any other good striker and the team won't lose out on much.
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That harms team. :lol:

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"Team revolving around Thierry Henry."
 
Physiocrat said:
Did he go that wide at Madrid? I really don't remember him doing that much although most of my memory is from the 1960 EC final and I watched that I long time ago
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Yeah, he did from time to time. For Spain as well.
 
------------Henry
--------------------Francescoli
----Finney/Nedved----------Donadoni
------------Bozsik---Schweinsteiger
Cole------------------------------Schnellinger
-----------Scirea-----Nesta
------------------Buffon

No imposing personalities that will hijack the team and all of them were used to playing with others as part of, rather than becoming the team.

Not uber names for the most part, but a recreation of Arsenal with better players. Cole is the same Cole and I guess there are arguments as to whether Francescoli is the equal of Bergkamp. Gullit came to mind, but I think he would be too domineering. If Cole's not permissible, then Krol.
 
Fortitude said:
------------Henry
--------------------Francescoli
----Finney/Nedved----------Donadoni
------------Bozsik---Schweinsteiger
Cole------------------------------Schnellinger
-----------Scirea-----Nesta
------------------Buffon

No imposing personalities that will hijack the team and all of them were used to playing with others as part of, rather than becoming the team.

Not uber names for the most part, but a recreation of Arsenal with better players. Cole is the same Cole and I guess there are arguments as to whether Francescoli is the equal of Bergkamp. Gullit came to mind, but I think he would be too domineering. If Cole's not permissible, then Krol.
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Wasn't schnellinger a left back? I wojld replace donadoni with conti but otherwise good effort. Like it better than most teams however you want somebody who can finish as well in that fransecoli position. Zola maybe?
 
MJJ said:
Wasn't schnellinger a left back? I wojld replace donadoni with conti but otherwise good effort. Like it better than most teams however you want somebody who can finish as well in that fransecoli position. Zola maybe?
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Schnellinger was both, him out, I'd put Gerets in, though.

You want someone narrow and working the inside channel of the flank to recreate Arsenal for Henry, which is why I went Donadoni. Jairzinho was a thought for the position, as was Cubillas for the Francescoli slot, but the problem with Bergkamp being recreated is you want someone tall, elegant, selfless with huge amounts of hold-up ability and patience. When you go for the better second-strikers, they're all going to take over in that position, which is why I find the pool there so difficult - you either get the goal-scorers with lesser vision, or rather, willingness to use that vision when in on goal, thus negating Henry, again, or you get play-makers, who then become conduits, and therefore take over the team by default, which again kills Henry, so it's tough to get the balance right. You need a passive player, which is so hard to find in that position.

Litmanen is another option, but I don't think he's of the regard for the thread's title.
 
---Henry---Moreno----
-----------Kopa----------
Brietner----Seedorf
----------Voronin--------
Brehme-Kohler-Nesta-Cafu

Would probably go with this or swap kopa with rui Costa if you want to un-GOATify it but he has shown to fit well with othsr world class players without dominating proceedings.
 
------------Henry
--------------------Kubala
----Overath----------Rahn
------------Coluna---Ceulemans
Lizarazu------------------------------McGrain
-----------Lucio-----Kohler
-----------------Kahn

Switch! Don't know about Kubala, but then, same issue whoever goes in there. Ceulemans for the super dynamic-action man role.
 
Donadoni was a great shout. Francescoli good option too as is Tostao.
 
Physiocrat said:
What about in a diamond or 3412? Or would you just not play him in such a system
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I'm not sure you can say that to be a front two tho.
Fortitude said:
------------Henry
--------------------Kubala
----Overath----------Rahn
------------Coluna---Ceulemans
Lizarazu------------------------------McGrain
-----------Lucio-----Kohler
-----------------Kahn

Switch! Don't know about Kubala, but then, same issue whoever goes in there. Ceulemans for the super dynamic-action man role.
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nah Kubala isn’t a good pick there. Never a playmaker or that much of a creative passer.

Tostao as mentioned would fit like a glove.
 
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Enigma_87 said:
I'm not sure you can say that to be a front two tho. Most
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Is that a reference to those systems not having a front two or fortitude's line-up not having a genuine front-two? I think it's the latter but not sure.
 
Physiocrat said:
Is that a reference to those systems not having a front two or fortitude's line-up not having a genuine front-two? I think it's the latter but not sure.
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Didn't finish my thought sorry about that.

My point is 3-4-1-2 or even a diamond is more like a front three to me with the #10 usually dominant playmaker or an attacker who doesn't really have defensive functions. In that formation you'd most likely see Henry on the left ala Barca to make room for a designated #9.

a 4-4-2 or 3-5-2/5-3-2 IMO has more room for him to operate up the pitch and probably not need to worry about clash with potential #10 playmaker type ala Zidane.

Kopa, Kaka are good #10's if you are going with a 3-4-1-2 as they are the wideish #10 playmaker type, but I'd probably have a counter attacking 4-4-2/3-5-2 to suit him best.
 
If we're looking past GOAT players in the team I think a 3-5-2 like this would really suit him well:

------------Careca
-------Henry------Tostao---------
-----------Breitner---Modric---------
Marcelo---------Sammer----------Amoros
-----------Forster-----Kohler
-----------------Kahn
 
Enigma_87 said:
If we're looking past GOAT players in the team I think a 3-5-2 like this would really suit him well:

------------Careca
-------Henry------Tostao---------
-----------Breitner---Modric---------
Marcelo---------Sammer----------Amoros
-----------Forster-----Kohler
-----------------Kahn
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Three strikers? Looks a bit odd
 
harms said:
Three strikers? Looks a bit odd
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Tostao isn't a #9 per say. His passing range and quick one two's in the final third would be a good fit. Careca also is a good all round foil to Henry and also a creator.

Would probably put Tostao as inside right. The #10 in 5-3-2 could create an issue of potential clash as most of them are pretty dominant ones. You can maybe replace Tostao with Rivelino or put Tostao as a forward and sub Careca for Rivelino.

There are few who can facilitate Henry well in that 10ish position.
 
Enigma_87 said:
I'm not sure you can say that to be a front two tho.

nah Kubala isn’t a good pick there. Never a playmaker or that much of a creative passer.

Tostao as mentioned would fit like a glove.
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You have to remember we're replacing Bergkamp here not Rivera or Riquelme or some sort of genial passer. Bergkamp's passing was good enough for what Henry required and his willness to play the foil is what you're really trying to recreate with others in a like-for-like. Kubala's not the best fit, but then again, it's hard to get all his components in another player.

Tostao has the technical acumen, but he is not going to hold up the ball in the manner of Bergkamp. It's an interesting conundrum.
 
Fortitude said:
You have to remember we're replacing Bergkamp here not Rivera or Riquelme or some sort of genial passer. Bergkamp's passing was good enough for what Henry required and his willness to play the foil is what you're really trying to recreate with others in a like-for-like. Kubala's not the best fit, but then again, it's hard to get all his components in another player.

Tostao has the technical acumen, but he is not going to hold up the ball in the manner of Bergkamp. It's an interesting conundrum.
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Depends really. Tostao can hold the ball and distribute it pretty well. In fact that's one of his best qualities - bringing others into the play in the final third.

The Bergkamp conundrum is indeed tough to work out as it's pretty much the most important position to pair Henry with.
 
Enigma_87 said:
Didn't finish my thought sorry about that.

My point is 3-4-1-2 or even a diamond is more like a front three to me with the #10 usually dominant playmaker or an attacker who doesn't really have defensive functions. In that formation you'd most likely see Henry on the left ala Barca to make room for a designated #9.

a 4-4-2 or 3-5-2/5-3-2 IMO has more room for him to operate up the pitch and probably not need to worry about clash with potential #10 playmaker type ala Zidane.

Kopa, Kaka are good #10's if you are going with a 3-4-1-2 as they are the wideish #10 playmaker type, but I'd probably have a counter attacking 4-4-2/3-5-2 to suit him best.
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Agreed with type of 10 needed in a diamond.

I reckon he'd work well in something like this-

----------Henry----Vieri-------
---------------Kaka----------
--------Nedved----Mendieta
-------------Redondo----------
Serginho-Samuel-Lucio-Sagnol-
-------------Martyn (because he was better than Seaman for ages)
 
I thought Harms team was actually a good one as far as having lots of greats in it goes. Henry is still most likely to be the goalscoring key of that side, even if you can say it's almost equally built around Laudrup or Matthaus. Maybe swap Hristo out for more of a creative focused player. It's the Pele, Cruyff, Ronaldo forward line players that would just take over imo. You want Henry to be clearly the best goalscorer in the side or there's not much reason for any manager to build around him.

Litmanen would be very good pick for the Bergkamp role. He's the one that effectively took over from Bergkamp at Ajax and he was if not always a better goalscorer, at least a more influential all-rounder that controlled a bigger area of the pitch and was a better big game player before the injuries took over his career. As good as Dennis was, he was not as decisive in the CL as Jari. The issue might be him ending up being seen as the man of the side like Zidane was for the NT, but you at least retain Henry as the main goalscoring talent.
 
Moby said:
To be honest, Henry isn't the type of player I'd choose to build a team around.
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True but I was just fed up of him been shunted wide left and wanted to see what people would do with him.
 
While I completely get the rationale behind the diluted squads to reflect the team to completely revolve around Henry, quite a few of the teams wont cross the 1st or 2nd round of an all time draft.

With some players, either these threads make little sense or they end up merely being squad building exercises with little emphasis on quality or actually being competitive against the usual all time teams. Which of course is completely okay.

Fwiw, my replacement for Bergkamp would have been Benzema.

--------Henry----Benzema--------
Nedved--Effenberg--Keane---Johnstone
Zebec---Mcgrath--Ferdinand--Thuram
 
idmanager said:
While I completely get the rationale behind the diluted squads to reflect the team to completely revolve around Henry, quite a few of the teams wont cross the 1st or 2nd round of an all time draft.
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Possibly, but it depends on how many restrictions there are
 
So there are two school of thought with this exercise:
1. How to get the best out of Henry so he can express himself to the fullest. i.e Put GOATs alongside him, that play different roles than him but similar to Arsenal's setup.
2. How to get the best out of Henry, with him as the star of the attack. Well this is a bit harder exercise to pull off. An upgrade to that Arsenal's attack, but not too much to outshine Henry.
 
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