Lampard will start deeper and advance forward, he won't occupy the 10 area as default, this is far different than playing with Berkamp in the middle or a front two of Wiltord and Henry. As such I expect Ljungberg's starting position to be further forward and have more expected of him in these other systems. I suppose the reason why I'm focusing on him is that he has such a huge responsibility for creating in this side so him not being in optimal position hurts the Stain.
All Time Premier League Fantasy Draft: R1 - The Stain vs coolredwine
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Lampard will start deeper and advance forward, he won't occupy the 10 area as default, this is far different than playing with Berkamp in the middle or a front two of Wiltord and Henry. As such I expect Ljungberg's starting position to be further forward and have more expected of him in these other systems. I suppose the reason why I'm focusing on him is that he has such a huge responsibility for creating in this side so him not being in optimal position hurts the Stain.
Not sure what the deal is regarding Ljungberg? He almost always played as a right/left midfielder and here he's playing that exact same role again. He also used to play in more or less a free role and often left his side to provide runs behind the defensive line, which lead to his great goalscoring statistics.
It's a 4-4-2. There's no #10. Scholes will dictate from deep and Lampard will make the forward runs. Two classic wide midfielders shuttling the flanks. Infact Ljungberg will have freedom to roam the middle and support Lampard which he is perfectly capable of.
Wide forward, I usually associate with 4-3-3 only.
Ummm, can we change teams in the middle of a game?
Even if Ljungberg were to play further forward that wouldn't be a negative by any mean. For Arsenal even when he played as a winger he'd find his way to the box and act almost as a striker as well. He'll do the same things whether he is played as a 4-3-3/4-2-3-1/4-4-1-1 and it is more important to look at whether the Stain has the creativity and passing to take advantage of his runs.
Drogba scored 37 goals in 44 games in his peak season, which is how we seem to rate players by for this round at least and then he's absolutely world class in that regard as well. But he'll also provide plenty of hold-up play where he looks for Ljungberg behind the line. And then we have Scholes who at his younger age still had great playmaking and a good range of passing together with Lampard who was a very good passer himself.
Drogba-Lampard connection in their peak is a huge threat on its own and the main act here, Ljungberg making runs behind the defense is the second act.
Drogba scored 37 goals in 44 games in his peak season, which is how we seem to rate players by for this round at least and then he's absolutely world class in that regard as well. But he'll also provide plenty of hold-up play where he looks for Ljungberg behind the line. And then we have Scholes who at his younger age still had great playmaking and a good range of passing together with Lampard who was a very good passer himself.
Drogba-Lampard connection in their peak is a huge threat on its own and the main act here, Ljungberg making runs behind the defense is the second act.
Didn't specify whether manager can change it during the match, but to be safe, let assume this is the only optionSkizzo said:
I will change it back
There are even fewer fullbacks who could pull off a diamond. The fullback pool is pretty average, more of a reason not to go for a diamond. Wingers and wide players? Plenty of tasty ones.
Both Irwin and Dixon were used to support their respective wingers. Plenty of times they have made runs while attacking. Not as established as a typical attacking fullback maybe, but the ability to go up and down the flank is still there.
I don't really see what the issue is with Scholes-Lampard. It's not like this is 1995 Scholes paired with him. Scholes the central midfielder (whether box-to-box or deep-lying playmaker) always wanted to get into the midfield, get the ball, and dictate play. He was one who wanted to run the show, always making himself available for the ball and playmaking accordingly. Lampard is someone who'll be more attacking than Scholes in that respect, looking to play more in the final third and playing a more supporting role to Scholes rather than trying to take control of the match. Fernandinho, on the attack, is quite reserved and simple with his game, so there's no way Scholes will be restricted in his natural game.
In a sense, this midfield is similar in structure to Makelele-Tiago-Lampard, though Fernandinho is nowhere near Makelele in ability.
Also, I don't see how Ljungberg won't be influential. He'll be getting a supply from Scholes and Lampard through the middle, and Ljungberg himself was also dangerous with his deliveries from out wide. Lampard and Drogba both would have a good time getting some nice through passes/deliveries from Ljungberg as well. His runs will cause opponents problems, especially since he's adept at both ends and through the middle as well.
With regards to Young, if we're going by his Aston Villa days, then I do think that he could be effective here. The Villa Young was someone who always looked to put deliveries into the box or cut inside. If he's putting deliveries into the box, then he can put in decent crosses, and Drogba's the perfect man to meet them as well as Lampard. Cutting inside, though, I don't think he can be that effective as CRW's defence is quite a wall. The same goes for Ljungberg, who'll have to deal with Irwin. If his movement fools Irwin, though, Hyypia should take care of him seeing that he wouldn't have to deal with much else given CRW's very defensive midfield setup.
However, having said this, Stain's midfield is quite light and weak, defensively. Both Lampard and Scholes were more supporting players in defence and couldn't contribute too much, defensively (the deep-lying Scholes did demonstrate good defensive positioning, though, but I don't think he's referring to that Scholes). Plus, Fernandinho's vulnerable to being attracted to a ball-holder, and I can see Okocha cause lots of issues here for him in that sense and open up spaces for others to exploit. It's irks me, though, that I don't see CRW's team have enough of an attacking threat to exploit the defensive weaknesses.
In the end, I think CRW wins this one with a low-scoring yet controlled performance.
In a sense, this midfield is similar in structure to Makelele-Tiago-Lampard, though Fernandinho is nowhere near Makelele in ability.
Also, I don't see how Ljungberg won't be influential. He'll be getting a supply from Scholes and Lampard through the middle, and Ljungberg himself was also dangerous with his deliveries from out wide. Lampard and Drogba both would have a good time getting some nice through passes/deliveries from Ljungberg as well. His runs will cause opponents problems, especially since he's adept at both ends and through the middle as well.
With regards to Young, if we're going by his Aston Villa days, then I do think that he could be effective here. The Villa Young was someone who always looked to put deliveries into the box or cut inside. If he's putting deliveries into the box, then he can put in decent crosses, and Drogba's the perfect man to meet them as well as Lampard. Cutting inside, though, I don't think he can be that effective as CRW's defence is quite a wall. The same goes for Ljungberg, who'll have to deal with Irwin. If his movement fools Irwin, though, Hyypia should take care of him seeing that he wouldn't have to deal with much else given CRW's very defensive midfield setup.
However, having said this, Stain's midfield is quite light and weak, defensively. Both Lampard and Scholes were more supporting players in defence and couldn't contribute too much, defensively (the deep-lying Scholes did demonstrate good defensive positioning, though, but I don't think he's referring to that Scholes). Plus, Fernandinho's vulnerable to being attracted to a ball-holder, and I can see Okocha cause lots of issues here for him in that sense and open up spaces for others to exploit. It's irks me, though, that I don't see CRW's team have enough of an attacking threat to exploit the defensive weaknesses.
In the end, I think CRW wins this one with a low-scoring yet controlled performance.
Still, though, I don't think they can hold their own as the wing backs of your team. Yes, both Dixon and Irwin did well going forward, but that was because of their supporting runs forward and their deliveries from out wide (they normally wouldn't be in the final third unless someone was to play them in there). Full backs in the diamond, however, need to do more than just that. They need to be able to take on their markers and be very good dribblers. Neither Irwin nor Dixon are good wingers.
Taking our diamond under Sir Alex and Chelsea's diamonds under Mourinho and Ancelotti as examples, both teams struggled when the full backs weren't able to stretch the opposition. I don't think Dixon and Irwin can stretch the opposition. The sort of full backs who I can see do this are the likes of Alves, Alba, Zabaleta, Evra, etc.
Stain's back 6 is one big pile of meh. Even coolredwine's strange attack will have a field day.
crw for me.
crw for me.
So Lampard is the striker? I buy that as much as Kevin Nolan as a striker
On a more positive note The Stain's midfield three is a more lightweight version of Gio's Makalele. Veron and Gerrard. A holder, a expansive passer (I assume it's DLP Scholes) and a goalscoring midfielder; it could work well but it would be better if they had a proper outball like a Robben.
Also if is though quite a direct setup so the lack of physicality could come unstuck against Speed, Wise and Hamman.
As I said before though Okotcha, Cantona and Viduka as a front three is really odd and needs a quicker more mobile player there to make it work.
I reckon it'll be a draw
Also if is though quite a direct setup so the lack of physicality could come unstuck against Speed, Wise and Hamman.
As I said before though Okotcha, Cantona and Viduka as a front three is really odd and needs a quicker more mobile player there to make it work.
I reckon it'll be a draw
There's no issue with Scholes-Lampard per se (I actually think Gio should go for Scholes next, Scholes-Gerrard!).
The "problem" that results from that pair is if you get that you'd better get a great Makelele type, and he got Fernandinho.
Gio with Scholes, Gerrard and Makalele will be fearsome indeed.
Lampard and Drogba scored 64 goals together in 09/10 and with a one season peak in mind I think they're absolutely world class. Ljungberg will be the second act providing run for Drogbas hold up play and Lampard/Scholes through balls while Young will provide crosses towards Drogba/Ljungberg with Lampard and Scholes lurking around too.
Even then I think it would be a draw 6-7 times out of 10 as I can't see Cantona/Viduka/Okocha play great football together and I really like the back 7 for CRW here. But as a draw option isn't available I will go with The Stain.
The Stain has a horribly boring side here, I dislike Young/Ljungberg and Lampard/Drogba were also the effective type rather than the entertaining ones. On the other hand CRW has a really entertaining side that I can't see being effective at all with that front trio looking weird.
Even then I think it would be a draw 6-7 times out of 10 as I can't see Cantona/Viduka/Okocha play great football together and I really like the back 7 for CRW here. But as a draw option isn't available I will go with The Stain.
The Stain has a horribly boring side here, I dislike Young/Ljungberg and Lampard/Drogba were also the effective type rather than the entertaining ones. On the other hand CRW has a really entertaining side that I can't see being effective at all with that front trio looking weird.
Yeah.. I am surprised at the score. I do think Stain would have been better off with Scholes version 06-09. Gives Lampard the freedom to play his best role while Scholes controls the game from the back. Add a better winger than Young to that and it would be a very good attacking unit IMO. On the other side, I just don't see how crw's front 6 is supposed to function. 3 midfielders who are workhorses and then Okocha and Cantona both trying to control the game.
Yeah, I think so too.
It's been suggested for ages now. Needs to be tried out. If it doesn't work, fair enough - but we should at least give it a proper go.
Yeah, I've abstained from voting on the presumption it's a 0-0. It would need a bit of work though as lots of games ending in penalties is an even worse situation.
That isn't a bad shout, Fernandinho and Lampard in the box to box role with Scholes as the deep lying playmaker maybe? I like Fernandinho in his defensive role for Brazil a lot as well, but he's probably a slight edge better in a defensive box to box role.
I still like the midfield though. I think it would play out more as Fernandinho and Scholes playing as box to box midfielders while Lampard would look to primarily get further forward to link-up with Drogba who in that one season were monsters together.
It will be interesting to see how the peak thing is looked at in the coming rounds as some players like Drogba has had a surreal season while over a three year peak he'd be lesser of a player.
Judging him on that one 37 goals in 44 games in a season, when the season before and after were poor and he scored 13 and 14 goals feels a bit odd as we go forward.
I suspect that, as the standards rise, the leeway for one-season wonders will diminish somewhat.
Aye - it has to be properly thought-out.
Might start the discussion again in the "ideas" thread.
What's the difference between 0-0 or any draw result, and not voting?
Good game & good luck, @coolredwine ! Not really happy with my team so fine with going out. Better planning for the next draft!
Feck all. Although voting for a draw increases the chances of it reaching penalties, on the proviso it went for example:
Stain - 10
Draw - 11
CRW - 8
The big question is with scores is do we round the average scores or round them. Rounding increases the chances of penalties but would allow actual score lines to be given rather than 1.73-1.98.
With penalties though we could use this as a chance to make keepers important. We could do the left right centre option but then also use a randomiser and on a certain number it's saved even if you said your keeper to go left and the penalty taker hit it right. An independent poster (or committee) could assign the quality of the keeper (overall and not just on penalties otherwise Tim Krul will be overrated) at the end of drafting which will decide how easy it is to save for that keeper.
I'm informed that polls can have up to 25 options so we could easily have the option of up to 3 goals and a draw as it would only require 13 options
Results-wise, none. Gameflow-wise, significant. One problem with the "not voting" is you sit around all the day waiting for certain votes to come in or regulars to pronounce themselves. What the draw option does is pile up the fence-sitters and potentially prompt action/subs to make them switch to a win for one team.
Imagine
Stain: 4
CRW: 6
Draw: 10
Whoever convinces the draw chaps wins it, clearly. Now remove the 10 and they are both just sat there waiting for votes to materialise. There's no clear call for action.
We will always have a next time.
I can understand the criticism with Viduka. He wasn't the best pick and I had to make do with what I was left with, but I don't see anything wrong with Cantona and Okocha here. Or with Speed-Wise midfield.
Does n't matter now.. you won
I'd still want to know.Does n't matter now.. you won
Okocha was hit and miss, well capable on his day of producing a world class performance, but could be absolutely wank as well. Your diamond isn't suited for the players you have, think you underestimated the players available.
We will always have a next time.
Are you the Karateka?
I don't have that much problem with Viduka. He will score if you create for him if not against a very good defense. Okocha would want to run the game, I am not sure how effective he will be just to play second fiddle to Cantona and being asked to provide some width to the attack, you would start him out wide and then bring him in field.
Wise, Hamman and Speed are a bit pedestrian for diamond IMO. You need at least one in there who has the creativity to justify the diamond.
Dennis Wise. Cockbiscotti.
I cannot think of many PL players, and specially going by the PL careers, who would be great in a diamond. Even for the likes of Keane and Scholes, I wouldn't buy them in a diamond as much in a 4-4-2 or something similar, it's an entirely different proposition to play there.
"Could start a fight in an empty room" - Fergie.
This being a fantasy draft, what fun is it to play the players in the usual positions and formations. Might as well try something new while we are at it.I cannot think of many PL players, and specially going by the PL careers, who would be great in a diamond. Even for the likes of Keane and Scholes, I wouldn't buy them in a diamond as much in a 4-4-2 or something similar, it's an entirely different proposition to play there.
"Could start a fight in an empty room" - Fergie.
I agree, as long as the players have the required skill set. The two wide CMs in a diamond require to provide width, both offensively and defensively, for example. Which is why the likes of Gattuso, Seedorf etc excelled at it, I don't see someone like Keane doing that for example, despite him being superior individually.
Okocha?
In the purest sense of the diamond (I've only ever seen Milan's one properly), no - of course. but in a functional way, why not? There's a DM and 2 CM's (both decent goalscorers in their own right) and AM sitting in front of them. I worked with the limitation that the strikers and Okocha will not go wide and that effect is negated. However, I have already mentioned in the write up that this formation is just a effective one and not expansive in terms of general play, and this set of players are the ones who will get the job done.