All Time Premier League Fantasy Draft: QF - MJJ/Crappy vs Stobzilla | Voting closed

With players at peaks in the teams indicated, who will win

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green_smiley

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.......................................Team MJJ/Crappy..............................................................................Team Stobzilla..............................................

TEAM MJJ/CRAPPY

Formation

Vintage PL 4-4-2/4-4-1-1

Defense

We have one of the best goal keepers of the premier league era, Shay Given, who single-handedly kept newcastle from being humiliated on a regular basis. In Southgate we have someone who appeared for England more than 50 times at international stage and was the lynchpin of Villa's and Boro's defense for the better part of the decade. Alongside him is one of the best Irish players of all time in Paul Mcgrath, who was tremendous for Villa in the early part of PL, even winning PFA player of the year once. Out wide, probably the second best english left back of all time, Stuart Pearce, and a key component of mourinho's first chelsea side who dominated all, Ferreira.

Midfield

The engine of our side. Keane and Scholes, PL's iconic MF. Together they possess everything you want in a CM duo, titled ever so slightly towards the attacking side of pendulum, they typify the score more than your opponents nature of 442. Presence of 2 of the best PL wingers of all time - Overmars and Ginola further cement the midfield's dominant nature. Both provide something different to the side. Ginola with his trickery and skill will outfox many a defenders while Overmars posses raw pace and skill to beat any full back in this draft. Both can play on either wing and switching wings during the match for either could be a valid tactic if required.

Attack

In attack, we have the silky skills and creativity of Berbatov, partnered by the absolutely lethal Fowler, still the only player to score 30 plus goals in his first three full seasons in England. Berbatov functions best when he does not have the pressure to score himself and being paired with someone like Fowler will allow him to play his natural game. Fowler was a sensation for Liverpool when he broke on the scene, his scoring record in early seasons is testament to his finishing ability when he scored against all kinds of defenders and teams.

Why we will win.

A lot depends on if Stob goes with 3 in the middle with Yaya in attacking role or 2 in the middle. If he goes with latter, it is an easy win since I don't see his midfield holding out against our 4. If he goes with 3 and plays either Rooney/Anelka up top, someone like Yaya will still come up against Keane in way of his attacking runs while I am not sure how effective Rooney/Anelka will be upfront alone.

Outwide, Babbel against Overmars seems like a mismatch. Evra will also have to deal with a wily winger like Ginola and balance his attacking game accordingly.
 
TEAM STOBZILLA

Formation: 4-2-2-2

Team Profile
  • Man. Utd. 2007-08 team style
  • Deep, compact defence with numbers and defensive solidity at the back
  • Fast, incisive, dynamic attacks
  • Front 4 do not have fixed roles; each can occupy other attacking roles with fluidity and freedom
  • If the front 4 cannot break down the opposition, Yaya and/or Evra can push up to cause more havoc
Goalkeeper: crazy Jens Lehmann
  • Part of undefeated Arsenal team of 2003/04
  • Dominant in the box and the air like van der Sar
  • Excellent shot-stopper with great reflexes, positioning, and anticipation (better than van der Sar who lost his reflexes with old age)
  • Large frame makes him an imposing figure in the box like van der Sar
  • Leader and organiser from the back; will keep the defence alert and in their toes like van der Sar did
  • With a deep, compact defensive line, he won't have to be a sweeper keeper (his main weakness)
Defence: all-rounded, leaders, and solidity
  • Leaders at the back in Radebe, Carvalho, and Evra
  • Great readers of the game in defence to ensure that defence remains organised, in shape, and compact
  • Radebe can track forwards and shut them down with his pace, marking, and tackling
  • Carvalho can cover for Radebe and suss out the danger from opposing players making runs through or getting into space
  • Carvalho-Radebe partnership like Ferdinand-Vidic
  • Babbel, like Wes Brown, will stay back and solidify the right side with his intelligent positioning and good marking but will still go forward occasionally
    • Allows Beardsley to play his natural game and not worry about the right side opening up
  • Evra can push forward knowing that Radebe and Gullit will cover for him and slow down attacks accordingly
  • Set-piece threats in Babbel, Carvalho, Evra, and Radebe
  • Every player in the back 4 are strong in the air
    • If a full back has to cover the far post, no worries as both Babbel and Evra are positionally strong and can head the ball away
Midfield: creative, dominant on the ball, yet solid off the ball
  • Yaya Toure is the main playmaker from midfield (like Scholes)
  • Gullit provides leadership and defensive assurance that allows Yaya Toure to play his natural game
  • Gullit: reading of the game, leadership, playmaking, skill, strength, technique, complete player
  • Yaya on the defence
    • Deep, compact setup allows Gullit and Carvalho to read everything in front of him and eliminates Yaya's defensive weaknesses
    • Yaya's strength and physical presence makes him a strong ball winner
  • Yaya on the attack
    • Tough to win the ball off of with his physical traits, skill, close control, and technique
    • Excellent vision to spot through passes and play players into dangerous areas
    • Can control the pace of the game
    • Great passing range allows him to play incisive long passes as well as precise short passes
  • Huge goalscoring threat from Yaya Toure (set pieces, free kicks, long shots, angled shots, in the box, etc.)
Front 4: fluid, fast, dynamic, unpredictable, and unstoppable
  • Fluidity, flair, creativity, technique, power, pace, and incisiveness
  • Can score from anywhere with anyone
  • Interchanging of roles between the front 4
  • Everyone possesses creativity and flair; Rooney and Robbie provide pace, directness, and power
  • Rooney and Robbie will provide lateral and vertical movement, causing the opposing defence and midfield confusion
  • Front 4 comfortable in the middle and out wide
  • Rooney/Robbie will drop into the hole and run at defences, take shots, and/or play the others into dangerous spaces/goalscoring opportunities
  • Wide threat still present; Robbie and Rooney's movement and positioning means that they can get on the end of crosses and score goals
Dealing with MJJ/Crappy's Team
  • Ince, Keane, and Scholes will struggle to open up our deep, compact defensive setup
  • Hardworking players in Robbie, Rooney, and Beardsley will make it tough for the opposition to start off attacks, particularly allowing Scholes to influence the game
  • Opposition team will be dragged around by the team's fluid attack, not knowing which areas to cover and who to close down
    • Front 4's all-roundedness will cause lots of problems for the opposing team
  • Full backs can limit the influence of Overmars and Ginola with their great marking and positioning.
  • Carvalho, Babbel and Gullit will prevent the opposing players from getting into dangerous spaces and opening us up
  • Radebe, Evra, and Yaya will look to win the ball and close down ball holders.
 
@Rado_N

Could you please help to put up a poll? Thanks

With players at peaks in the teams indicated, who will win?
MJJ/Crappy
Stobzilla

votes visible without voting
votes can be changed
24 hours
 
Few quick things with Stob's write up

Yaya's comparison with latter day Scholes' role is odd. Scholes as a playmaker then played 2 kind of roles, kick starting attacks from the back with his passing range; and in games where we dominated possession, dictate the lay from front of the opposition box. Yaya in counters is more of a runner than a passer, he will either run looking for someone else to pick him up with a pass or he will make a direct run with the ball from the deep. In a more possession based team, again he is more likely to get at the end of a pass rather than create something himself.

Stob's quite cleverly has opted for 4222 instead of 442 which will suit some of his other players like Pires. Mainly because he knows that he won't be able to overcome the liability that PL era Yaya can be in a 442. Even more cleverly he has tried to link his current formation with United 07/08 rather the Pellegrini's City. Not sure this resembles United much from that era but it is definitely similar to City of last few seasons. Yaya paired with a defensive midfielder, Pires sort of playing the Silva role, 3 forwards up front. Main reason being that frailties with current City set up are well known. Yaya goes AWOL often leaving the MF area exposed.

Now the issue is that then he claims that the current set up with play a deep defensive CA style set up. Pellegrini's City relies on CA a lot but they only function best or even good, when they are the dominant side in the match, when likes of Aguero and Silva are able to control the match. In this case I am not sure if his team is geared up to play a CA tactic, when he has an attack minded CM like Yaya in deep lying role of sorts. Same was true for someone like Pires, while Arsenal team was known for their devastating CAs, they did dominate most of the match. In Europe where they could not, he was a much less effective player as a result. Pires is not exactly the kind of winger you want for pure CA team IMO.

Overall, I don't think Stob's has the right set up for this particular tactic against an attacking 442. His back 6 can't seriously claim to hold fort against out front 6. Even if he does score on counter, our attacking strength should hold us good for a win by 1-2 goals
 
Last edited:
green_smiley said:
@Rado_N

Could you please help to put up a poll? Thanks

With players at peaks in the teams indicated, who will win?
MJJ/Crappy
Stobzilla

votes visible without voting
votes can be changed
24 hours
Click to expand...
Sorted, sorry for delay, I had a tonne of alerts and missed yours when I first went through them, just noticed it now.
 
green_smiley said:
TEAM STOBZILLA

Formation: 4-2-2-2

Team Profile
  • Man. Utd. 2007-08 team style- Your team is closer to a mourinho's chelsea side than the united 07/08
  • Front 4 do not have fixed roles; each can occupy other attacking roles with fluidity and freedom- Dont think this is true, the level drop for your players from their fixed position is significant.
  • If the front 4 cannot break down the opposition, Yaya and/or Evra can push up to cause more havoc- Your midfield is already weaker, if yaya is pushing forward to start attacks it will leave you woefully short in the middle of the park.

Midfield: creative, dominant on the ball, yet solid off the ball
  • Yaya Toure is the main playmaker from midfield (like Scholes)- Yaya has never been the creative playmaker for city.
  • Gullit provides leadership and defensive assurance that allows Yaya Toure to play his natural game- Yaya natural game at city has been more akin to a number 10 not a deep lying playmer.
  • Yaya on the defence
    • Deep, compact setup allows Gullit and Carvalho to read everything in front of him and eliminates Yaya's defensive weaknesses- Would say it covers for some extent for his weaknesses, it doesnt eliminate them. You also lose a huge part of yaya on attack by playing him so deep.
    • Yaya's strength and physical presence makes him a strong ball winner
  • Yaya on the attack
    • Tough to win the ball off of with his physical traits, skill, close control, and technique
    • Excellent vision to spot through passes and play players into dangerous areas
    • Can control the pace of the game- Hasnt shown this at city either
    • Great passing range allows him to play incisive long passes as well as precise short passes
    • Would say both keane and scholes are better at the role you are having yaya play her.
  • Huge goalscoring threat from Yaya Toure (set pieces, free kicks, long shots, angled shots, in the box, etc.)
Front 4: fluid, fast, dynamic, unpredictable, and unstoppable
  • Fluidity, flair, creativity, technique, power, pace, and incisiveness
  • Can score from anywhere with anyone
  • Interchanging of roles between the front 4- As mentioned before, would greatly weaken your attack if either rooney/keane move to the wing and pires/beardsley go upfront.
Dealing with MJJ/Crappy's Team
  • Hardworking players in Robbie, Rooney, and Beardsley will make it tough for the opposition to start off attacks, particularly allowing Scholes to influence the game A) Better player than those three have tried and failed and B) It will leave you short in attack if either of those three is closing scholes down.
  • Opposition team will be dragged around by the team's fluid attack, not knowing which areas to cover and who to close down
    • Front 4's all-roundedness will cause lots of problems for the opposing team See Above
  • Full backs can limit the influence of Overmars and Ginola with their great marking and positioning.
  • Carvalho, Babbel and Gullit will prevent the opposing players from getting into dangerous spaces and opening us up
  • Radebe, Evra, and Yaya will look to win the ball and close down ball holders.
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Neither Keane nor Rooney are "playing" out on the wing if they interchange, to temporarily move into spaces is not the same as playing as a winger, you know that.
 
Stobzilla said:
Neither Keane nor Rooney are "playing" out on the wing if they interchange, to temporarily move into spaces is not the same as playing as a winger, you know that.
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Yeah I know but even if they temporarily move there it weakens your attacking threat greatly. Neither pires or beardsley have the attacking skills of a ronaldo/robben to make it worth it.
crappycraperson said:
Gonna leave this to MJJ since he is here.
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Am going to be busy for the next three/four hours, so feel free to comment away. Will join when I get home.
 
Think Mjj/Crappy is stronger in the majority of positions and can't see Stob getting the best from his lads in that formation unfortunately. Voting Mjj/Crappy
 
I can see Keane and Scholes running the game. Stobzy's advantage though is the problems Pires, Beardsley and Rooney will create inbetween the lines against a fairly attacking midfield set-up.
 
Aldo said:
Almost clicked on mjj-crappy but then saw the defense, only thing holding me back.
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There is not much separating the two defense, on the face of it presence of Evra could give him an edge but that is largely negated by the fact he will have to deal with Ginola throughout the match unless Radebe/Guilt are going to cover for him full time.
 
crappycraperson said:
There is not much separating the two defense, on the face of it presence of Evra could give him an edge but that is largely negated by the fact he will have to deal with Ginola throughout the match unless Radebe/Guilt are going to cover for him full time.
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I'm a big fan of Radebe, and he's easily ahead of Southgate when talking about Prem cred. So does Carvalho gets more credit as he spent his peak in the Prem, good as Paul was in his later years his peak largely came before the Prem. Add to that Stob also has the best forward on the pitch.

Still think Keane-Scholes with the supporting cast should get you the result most times but if there's a way to beat your team if that area of the pitch.
 
Aldo said:
I'm a big fan of Radebe, and he's easily ahead of Southgate when talking about Prem cred. So does Carvalho gets more credit as he spent his peak in the Prem, good as Paul was in his later years his peak largely came before the Prem. Add to that Stob also has the best forward on the pitch.

Still think Keane-Scholes with the supporting cast should get you the result most times but if there's a way to beat your team if that area of the pitch.
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Fair enough on defense, comings down to personal preferences indeed. Also it may not be a popular opinion on here but don't think Rooney has that much over peak Fowler (going by performances over a shortened period of time 2-3 years). It is not all Rooney's fault since he was played in a multitude of positions but Fowler did what he did incredibly well in his peak seasons while Rooney would have a one very good to great season followed by another meh one. Not to mention it is still disputed if Rooney plays better as a 9 or a 10.
 
I think people need to take a hard look at Stob's midfield 2 here.

Chelsea's Guilt had a sole season for Chelsea to justify his selection in that draft and by that time 33 year old Guilt was well past his best, used as a sweeper at first even before being deployed as a midfielder. Next to him is Yaya, who at Barca did play the DM role but at City made a name for himself largely on the basis of his attacking play. They are up against 2 players being played at their absolute peaks. It is too big of a mismatch with one player being played outside his peak and other not in his best role.
 
you guys just let mjj to win this draft, he was among the last in the picking order and he got the best player in the draft, and to be even funnier, he already had Keano :lol: By far the best midfield, great partnership up front and Paul McGrath at the back. Weak points are Ferreira and Given(cant remember how good or bad was southgate). Ferreira was always a defensive minded fullback and with the talent in front of him he can concentrate only on defending and keeping it simple, one more thing in his benefit is that he doesnt have classic winger against himself.
With stobz tactics mjj weakest area - defence can tighten up and play really narrow which helps them. All 4 players like to move in similar areas for stobz and i dont like it....
 
crappycraperson said:
Fair enough on defense, comings down to personal preferences indeed. Also it may not be a popular opinion on here but don't think Rooney has that much over peak Fowler (going by performances over a shortened period of time 2-3 years). It is not all Rooney's fault since he was played in a multitude of positions but Fowler did what he did incredibly well in his peak seasons while Rooney would have a one very good to great season followed by another meh one. Not to mention it is still disputed if Rooney plays better as a 9 or a 10.
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Yeah, even at his peak he did go through hot and cold periods and also had injury problems, his best was 09-10 in terms of numbers where he played largely up front, but if we look at his peak next to Ronaldo, Saha and later Tevez, he was really devastating. Fowler's a completely different type of player though, and I agree he was class at his peak, but I do still think Rooney's all round attacking play was too hot to handle and I think that would be on show here, given he's not played up front even if that means he scores more.
 
MJJ said:
Yeah I know but even if they temporarily move there it weakens your attacking threat greatly. Neither pires or beardsley have the attacking skills of a ronaldo/robben to make it worth it.


Am going to be busy for the next three/four hours, so feel free to comment away. Will join when I get home.
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Rooney shifting out wide and Beardsley in the number 10 position would work just fine. Both have experience in those positions, even if just for a few minutes in this game it'd be okay. I'd personally try and keep Pires as the natural width in the team, because him and Evra on the left wing would be frightening.

I prefer Stobz' defence, but MJJ has a brilliant PL midfield that I think might swing it for most people. My worry with Stobz is that Yaya will have too much to do himself and I think he'll struggle to get control of the game.
 
Couldn't avoid voting for Mjj/crappy here. The midfield coupled with the wingers win it for me. Not a big fan of Gullit in regards to the criteria and Toure for me dosen't fit how he is set up. Keane and Scholes would dominate.

I also feel many undervalue Southgate (though that is based on my limited 90s memory)
 
crappycraperson said:
I think people need to take a hard look at Stob's midfield 2 here.

Chelsea's Guilt had a sole season for Chelsea to justify his selection in that draft and by that time 33 year old Guilt was well past his best, used as a sweeper at first even before being deployed as a midfielder. Next to him is Yaya, who at Barca did play the DM role but at City made a name for himself largely on the basis of his attacking play. They are up against 2 players being played at their absolute peaks. It is too big of a mismatch with one player being played outside his peak and other not in his best role.
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Aye, that's the biggest mismatch on the pitch, surely. Can't see much Stobz can do to overcome that, Butt next to Toure would have been better but he's used his United quota and can't do that which means there's no reason to wait for the vote.
 
The left wingers on both sides would have a field day here. Pires vs Ferreira is a non-starter as is Overmars vs Babbel.

Think this game would be won and lost in the middle of the park. Keane & Scholes would outmuscle Stobz' duo and as good as Evra was, think Ginola would be able to lure him into a couple of daft tackles and his presence would also prevent Evra making regular runs forward.

Defensively I prefer Radebe and Carvalho over Southgate and McGrath, plus Given isn't in the same league as Lehmann. Having said that I think MJJ/Crappy has the edge. Rooney would be forced to drop deeper to contest with Keano and Scholes which would leave a very lonely Robbie Keane up by himself.

win for MJJ/Crappy IMO
 
I can't see past MJJ. Better forwards and better midfield. Stobz does have the better defence but his midfield is so dysfunctional I can't see him getting it in places to cause any problems.

Stobz should have dropped Rooney and played Yaya, Gullit and Butt. It gets the best out of Yaya and liberates Gullit. Then he could play Arsenal Anelka up front who despite only having one season is the best out and out striker he has. If things were going badly take off Evra and Yaya for whoever he had at left back last game and put Rooney behind Anelka.

MJJ 3-0
 
Marty1968 said:
The left wingers on both sides would have a field day here. Pires vs Ferreira is a non-starter as is Overmars vs Babbel.

Think this game would be won and lost in the middle of the park. Keane & Scholes would outmuscle Stobz' duo and as good as Evra was, think Ginola would be able to lure him into a couple of daft tackles and his presence would also prevent Evra making regular runs forward.

Defensively I prefer Radebe and Carvalho over Southgate and McGrath, plus Given isn't in the same league as Lehmann. Having said that I think MJJ/Crappy has the edge. Rooney would be forced to drop deeper to contest with Keano and Scholes which would leave a very lonely Robbie Keane up by himself.

win for MJJ/Crappy IMO
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With the constraints of this draft, that's a closer battle IMO. Babbel's peak as a defensively solid full-back (or wing-back) and as a fine man-marker makes him a good choice in this draft.
 
Gio said:
With the constraints of this draft, that's a closer battle IMO. Babbel's peak as a defensively solid full-back (or wing-back) and as a fine man-marker makes him a good choice in this draft.
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Keeping the draft pool in mind, even someone like Ferreria is getting a rough deal. He was fine as part of Chelsea's and Portugal's back 4 during that time. Not saying he will keep his opposing winger in his pocket but he is not going to be a liability against the left side attack of Stob as such.
 
MJJ/Crappy got lucky they don't face a midfield that can even remotely compete with theirs, both in defence and attack Stobz is better or at least on par but Gullit/Yaya just doesn't feel right at all vs. arguably the most successful midfield partnership in the PL era.

That said, I notice three players I've never seen before: Dimitiar, Paolo Ferreria and Mcgrath. They can't possibly win with three sheep regens.
 
antohan said:
MJJ/Crappy got lucky they don't face a midfield that can even remotely compete with theirs, both in defence and attack Stobz is better or at least on par but Gullit/Yaya just doesn't feel right at all vs. arguably the most successful midfield partnership in the PL era.

That said, I notice three players I've never seen before: Dimitiar, Paolo Ferreria and Mcgrath. They can't possibly win with three sheep regens.
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Hard to believe you have never seen him before.

Glenn_McGrath_in_final_test_series.jpg
 
Evra-Pires would dominate Ginola-Ferreira on the flank on that wing, but other than that I think MJJ would be stronger.
 
VivaJanuzaj said:
Wow. Voted for MJJ/Crappy but didn't think it would be this one sided. Stobz deserves better scoreline.
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I don't think he does to be honest, it looks a one sided game on paper too.
 
Looks like most people have misinterpreted/misunderstood most of the players in our team/our team itself. When I mentioned Man. Utd. 2007/08, I meant in regards to how we didn't play with a main defensive player in our midfield. Also, most people seem to forget that we played with quite a deep defensive line with our midfield also dropping back quite deep to limit the lack of energy and aggression in Scholes and Carrick. They wouldn't push up as often as they did during 2006/07 and before. Likewise, we've done the same with our midfield, and Yaya in particular was effective in such a setup with Mancini.

Yaya Toure was, for several years, seen as one of the best midfielders in the Premier League if not the best. That was not all down to him playing as a #10. Under Mancini, he only played as a #10 once during the 2010/11 season. In the 2011/12 season onwards, he was more of a box-to-box midfielder rather than a #10, partnering Barry and encouraging Mancini to go with a front 2 quite often. In midfield, during those seasons, Mancini's deeper, more compact setup (exactly like how we described it) helped suppress Yaya's defensive weaknesses and made him a box-to-box force that most saw him as. However, once Pellegrini came in, Man. City changed to a more traditional, attacking, and open 4-4-2, and Yaya suffered as a result. Here, we've gone with the Yaya under Mancini and hence gave him a setup that limited most of his weaknesses. Yes, we do admit that he still has weaknesses, but given that we have a deep, compact setup, there will be little room for MJJ/Crappy's team to exploit. As a result, if they do get past our midfield line, there'll be Carvalho or Babbel covering up or Radebe/Evra mopping up the mess with very little space for his attacking players to exploit (something Overmars and Ginola are not used to at all as well as Berbatov and Fowler).

With regards to Evra vs. Ginola, Evra's only struggled against pacy, fast players. Since he's facing Ginola (someone who's not Lennon-fast nor Lennon-quick), Evra will have no issues closing him down. Given that they're going for a 4-4-2, their wingers are expected to create chances in the final third with one of the midfield 2 only pushing up once a winger gets on the ball in the final third and pegs us back.

With regards to Yaya Toure controlling the game, people have forgotten how he's played from midfield. Whilst most see Silva as Man. City's main playmaker, he did much of his work in the final third. Yaya, however, did all of the work from the deeper areas, giving the ball to Silva and co. in dangerous areas, and even playing through players into goalscoring opportunities. And all of this will happen if MJJ/Crappy's team slow us down. If he can't (which he won't), our team is super deadly on the counter. Pires has frequently been involved in counterattacks with Arsenal, so he's very familiar with this fast-paced game. Likewise for Beardsley under Keegan. Then, you have Rooney and Robbie who, both, have been involved in fast-paced attacks, particularly Rooney.

Also, if MJJ/Crappy were to start off attacks, they'd have a tough time getting out without a 3rd midfielder to help them. Rooney, Beardsley, and Robbie were all known for closing down players quickly, and they'd give MJJ/Crappy's team a tough time getting the ball out, particularly as there isn't a 3rd midfielder available for them to relieve the pressure. If Scholes gets the ball, Rooney would immediately snap at his heels. When this forces Keane back, then they're forced to play a diagonal out wide, and this plays into our hands as both Babbel and Evra were known as excellent man-markers in their teams.

Pearce, as good a left as he was, will struggle to contain Beardsley with his movement. Beardsley will be often able to ghost past Pearce and cause Southgate lots of problems as a result, particularly as Yaya, Rooney, and Robbie are around to play him through. If the game slows down for us, then this will play into our hands as Yaya, Pires, and co. will get control of the game with Rooney, Robbie, Pires, and Beardsley causing lots of problems for the opposition with their movement and ability on the ball.
 
People seem to forget how effective Rooney was as a second striker, particularly in setting up his teammates. Here's a reminder to that:
 
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