Toure's Premier League credentials are very good. Especially here up against a two. It's against nippy Euroball teams that swamp the middle of the park that he often looks overwhelmed. And his positioning is absolutely fine, he does create a lot from deep and he's an under-rated passer. Gullit was 33 at Chelsea and, despite performing well, had slowed up after a load of injuries through the 1990s. It's a pity Stobz didn't have an energetic runner to round off that midfield.
All Time Premier League Fantasy Draft: QF - MJJ/Crappy vs Stobzilla | Voting closed
- Thread starter green_smiley
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I will also add on that Yaya was very tough to win the ball from with his close control and physical attributes. Scholes was well-known as not being strong defensively unless we're talking the older, deep-lying-playmaker Scholes. Keane was quite an aggressive player and preferred playing on the front foot. With that in mind, and keeping in mind that MJJ/Crappy's front 4 won't do much work in closing us down quickly, we'll easily be able to build up and take control of the game if we're slowed down or we can't counter. It's not like we are counterattacking/able to counterattack all of the time.
People are making too much of a big deal out of Keane-Scholes. Whilst that midfield was amazing and dominant in most matches, it was only when they were on the front foot. They frequently left too much space in between them and their defence, and as a results, opponents of many kinds were able to beat Man. Utd., some with large scorelines. Here, we're exploiting that space left behind, and by not trying to take their midfield 2 head-on, we're set to be at an advantage.
People are making too much of a big deal out of Keane-Scholes. Whilst that midfield was amazing and dominant in most matches, it was only when they were on the front foot. They frequently left too much space in between them and their defence, and as a results, opponents of many kinds were able to beat Man. Utd., some with large scorelines. Here, we're exploiting that space left behind, and by not trying to take their midfield 2 head-on, we're set to be at an advantage.
Hence why we have gone for a deeper, more Queiroz-like setup. Without the energy and bite from midfield, what we will do is close down the dangerous spaces in our third and force MJJ/Crappy's players to play a cross in, play a long ball in, or take a shot from afar. Also, if the opponent does try to overload the box, with Carvalho, Gullit, and Radebe in the middle as well as one of the full backs, there's no way any one from the opponent's team would ever get into space to take a shot on goal.
Finally, with regards to Evra pushing up, we have Gullit dropping back and Radebe pushing out to the left to cover for Evra's forays forward, so that's not an issue at all, either.
What? He scored 24 goals in his first season under Pellegrini. I agree with your general point though, Mancini's setup did try to protect Yaya's vulnerabilities more so than Pellegrini, but Mancini's side lacked a partner for Yaya with Fernandinho's pace and energy to adequately cover for Toure.
I meant defensively. Yes, on the attack, it was typical Yaya, but Man. City still suffered from going with a open 4-4-2 particularly due to Yaya. Fernandinho did have pace and energy, but he didn't have the discipline, reading of the game, and positioning that Barry and even de Jong had, and it's not like Barry was a slouch in midfield. He was still quite good at closing down players particularly if Mancini decided to push his team up against the minnows.
Well, it seems like everyone got turned away by Yaya Toure in a midfield 2. Good game @MJJ @crappycraperson.
You made a very good case for it I feel, although with Gullit being slowed down by injuries and playing at a much more sedate pace than in his prime I still feel he's the wrong partner for Yaya. If you'd been able to play the more energetic Butt it could have made a difference. Its a shame as you shade it in defence and attack imo.
You had a one up on their defense, but fwiw, Scholes and Keane would have a field day against Yaya and Gullit. And that turned the match.
I think Butt would have been a better option just to add more energy and tenacity into the side.
Good game, was a good write up but ultimately I think you went for wrong reinforcements in the last round, I will elaborate more tomorrow.
What? Toure is nowhere near the best midfielder of the PL era.
I get your points, but you are against an uphill battle against Scholes/Keane, more so because this is a United forum. I've faced this midfield in Manager's draft and you need a 3 man midfield to have a hope. Against a 4-4-2, not many would vote against that duo and rightly so.
United's 4-4-2 for all their dynamism never actually dominated matches and you have to exploit that. Do you have a 3rd midfielder in your team? If yes, time to trot him out.
you guys are being anal about the g being lowercased?wow.
and blame crappy, I was too busy to do anything.
It's a long-standing pet peeve of mine: you research the players, pick them, sing their praises... but can't spell their bloody names. I mean FFS Paolo Ferreria? Seriously?
I 100% expected Butt to start alongside Yaya, that's how highly I rate the EPL Gullit.
Jettison Keane and build a midfield that will outnumber and compete with Keane and Scholes.
So a 433 with Toure in front of Butt and Gullit?
He would need to either drop Evra for Riise or drop Rooney for Anelka/Keane.
I'd buy that (Evra out). But right enough. Pity your midfield watercarrier wasn't from some bottom-feeder.
I probably underrated Riise, somewhat. Oh well, I didn't think Gullit would be this lowly rated.
Not necessarily a question of that. Stick an extra body in the middle and it's a completely different story. But what people see here is the pair of Gullit/Yaya being - directly - up against Keane/Scholes in a 4-4-2. It's suicide in terms of draft tactics, no two ways about it.
27 to 2 ?
Joke, it isn't worth playing against players from our 90's side.
Joke, it isn't worth playing against players from our 90's side.
I'd agree about the tactical switch. Too late now, but Yaya would cause all sorts of trouble, far more than Keane is. I'm not even sure what he is doing at all.
Agreed. As I said, I think he deserves the win but from comments it seems people only think about Scholes-Keane vs Yaya-Gullit.
Anyway, I think Yaya was misused here, but he is massively underrated in draft matches here and seems like a lazy liability wherever he's positioned and with whoever. People seem to forget how he was a torture for us to play against, and not only because we had Anderson in midfield.
Its his nickname cos he is as good as maldini while defending.
We didn't have anyone to stop him/match him physically, and that's why he trumped against us and in the PL. Right now he is facing Keane and Scholes. World of difference. In terms of draft, he just needs a 2 man midfield behind him to mop up the midfield.
on the yaya discussion, he hasnt really faced any wc mid in his time here. The closest is probably Chelsea with matic and fab. and even they are a few standards below Keane scholes.
How many world class central midfields did Keane and Scholes face week in week out in the prem ? Arsenal I will give you but after that ?
That's the wrong way to look at it, though. We're not playing an old-school 4-4-2 formation here. The game wouldn't be like Arsenal-Man. Utd. matches of the 1990's/early 21st century.
Plus, I'm quite disappointed at how most saw this as two traditional 4-4-2's against each other. Of course, in a traditional 4-4-2, we'd lose. That's why we went with a 4-2-2-2 where the front 2 aren't proper strikers. I thought that describing it as our 2007/08 team would let people understand, but I guess they didn't bother to do so. Oh well.
His surname is wrong as well.
Thats cos he is as fast as a ferrari!
Godo point, I would say young gerrard but even that is a bit of stretch. They did prove himself in europe as well tho, and that arsenal side is far better than any of today.
True, but we aren't talking about europe
Thats why I said godo(good) point
and should be themselves, stupid autocorrect
That's a wrong way of analysing it in my opinion. Just because no defender in the Messi's era in has been a GOAT doesn't mean he won't be good against GOAT defenders, or that he will be stopped.
As big and strong as Keane was, Yaya is stronger when he's fit. He's massive! don't get me wrong, it won't make this Yaya beating Keane often but thinking that because he hasn't faced any CMs at Keane's level meaning he won't be good against Keane is just a wrong way of looking at it.
Difference is Keane is mentally a different level, he won't give up till he has your arse on a plate.
Yeah I'm not arguing against Keano in this matchup, but I hate this draft conception that "Keane was a better player than Yaya, so Yaya doesn't stand a chance". That's bollocks. In reality Yaya will force Keane to play his A Game in order to keep tabs with him and deny him space.
To be fair it was Yaya's partner in this game, who was the problem. Plus if we are assuming Yaya is bringing his A game, then so should Keano which makes it an easy call.
Yeah of course we need to assume they both bring their top game, and that's why I ended up voting for MJJ/Crappy, but if Yaya is playing his top game I wouldn't see him not having any influence at all at the game(like some posters suggested or like the scoreline does). In his prime Yaya was very hard to stop, and it will take a big chunk of Keane's attention for doing such. The difference is, when MJJ/Crappy goes to the attack, prime Keane's hard work will be the key factor in the matchup between these two. Again, not the "Yaya is lazy so he won't defend" argument, because it's bollocks, I'm talking about Yaya just not fast or fit enough to cope with Keane.
He's great on the ball, so just don't let the ball reach him and a lot of his threat is reduced! Of course if you let him get the ball and run at you and then try to chase him anyone would have a hard time, but that's a shit tactic against him.
Jose did it with Willian a couple of years back, had his players get the ball before it ever reached the big fella.
I'm not disputing that. I'm merely pointing out that this is a draft. On a United forum. You can't set up like that and expect anything but a slaughter, it's just the way it is.
another indicator that we should have a dedicated forum for drafts, with people being allowed to vote on the scoreline.
this is a farce. i was going to vote for mjj/crappy, then saw the scoreline which is grossly unfair.
maybe you could have the voting on an invite only-basis or ensure voting is only on the basis of at least a 1-line comment
this is a farce. i was going to vote for mjj/crappy, then saw the scoreline which is grossly unfair.
maybe you could have the voting on an invite only-basis or ensure voting is only on the basis of at least a 1-line comment