All Time Premier League Fantasy Draft: QF - Gio vs bleezy | Penalties

With players at peaks in the teams indicated, who will win?

  • Total voters
    28
  • Poll closed .
@bleezy sorry my bad then, i thought he was at spurs the season earlier also...but i stand by everything else, watched almost every game of Spurs back then and he was bang average but he was a "big name"...

And i dont agree that he is perfect for your side, you need a team player in there, someone who would keep it simple, offer good movement and make sacrificing runs for others, in other words Malouda would be perfect and Vdv as the "classic" goalscoring number 10 is the opposite of what you need. Creative wise you dont need him as you have Cesc and Eden creating chances, with Alexis on the side he wouldnt see much of the ball and goalscoring wise you are sorted with Kun and Alexis.
 
Two very even teams. That wonderful midfield from Gio would dominate centrally and Gerrard looks like he'd be at home here. His defensive work is often a bit underrated but next to Makelele and Vieira there is no doubt they'd do an excellent job.

But up front I think it is a lot easier to see Hazard orchestrating and carrying the ball for Bleezy with Aguero and Sanchez having world class off the ball movement. I don't think Vidic and Kompany are the best centre back pairing to handle the dribbling from Aguero and Hazard and the pure pace that Sanchez provides.

I think they'd both to a better job next to someone who complemented them better in that regard. With Makelele there as well it wouldn't be bad with one who was more of a ball player as well unless the team setup primarily on the counter.

Impossible to predict this game so it has to be a draw for me. I can see it go either way and whoever got the first goal would have a hefty advantage for being able to play on the counter. Gio's defense would look very solid then and Bleezy's attack would be a nightmare if they got to play on the counter too.
 
bleezy said:
I don't know how good of a tactic tucking in is, when there's nobody to cover the rest of the wing. Robben will be waiting upfield rather than tracking back, and Vertonghen trying to tuck in and make it tight leaves a lot of open space on the wing. Sanchez won't cut in every minute of the 90 - he's a clever player and if there's space to exploit, he'll stay out wide to do so
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That's a good point. If you have a full back tucking in and a winger that doesn't track back you want a wide midfielder who is comfortable outside. In this case, though it's not a great option given the EPL criteria, Davids would be much better than Vieria as he's much better out wide.

This is close though. Gio lacks creativity despite having much of the ball so is reliant on magic from Robben and Gerrard- that said Arbeloa on Robben is a good route to goal. Beezy though will score on the counter with those forwards against an unbalanced back line. Big error going for Vidic and not Stam.

Going Bleezy 2-1
 
Very evenly matched all over the pitch. Gio probably has the edge in midfield.
 
While acknowledging that Aguero is the type of striker that would cause problems, sometimes we forget that Vidic won all these awards:

PFA Premier League Team of the Year (4): 2006–07, 2007–08, 2008–09, 2010–11
Premier League Player of the Season (2): 2008–09, 2010–11
Manchester United Players' Player of the Year (1): 2008–09
ESM Team of the Year (3): 2006–07, 2008–09, 2010–11
FIFA FIFPro World XI (2): 2008–09, 2010–11
Premier League 20 Seasons Awards (1992–93 to 2011–12)

That's probably the strongest individual CV of any of the defenders in the pool.

The Torres thing can be overblown like an albatross he has to hang over his neck for the rest of his career. It's like remembering Lillian Thuram but qualifying it by saying "yeah top player but he couldn't handle Pedro Munitis". All of the greats have had shockers - Paolo Maldini struggled badly with Chris Waddle, Brian Laudrup and Andrei Kanchelskis; Nesta got rinsed by Ronaldo, Totti, Craig Bellamy and Kenny Miller; Tony Adams was embarrassed by Marco Van Basten and Adrian Illie; Carles Puyol got spunked on by Aiden McGeady; Roberto Ayala couldn't live with Michael Owen; etc.

What's important is how rare the greats had those shockers. Vidic didn't routinely struggle with pace, like some lower-table penalty-box battler, otherwise he'd never have coped with United's fairly high line. What matters here is that he's got a left-centre-back by his side, Vincent Kompany alongside him, Claude Makelele in front of him, and Edwin Van der Sar - a proven connection - mopping up behind him. It's a solid space-reducing core.
 
As I said at the start, very tough and very close to call this one. Although Bleezy definitely has the edge in attack, I think he also has the weakest links in Toure, Arbeloa and VdV. Not bad players any of them, but the weakest on this pitch. For that reason I'm picking Gio, narrowly.
 
Gio for me.

I can't trust Van der Vaart, Robben can ignore Arbeloa, Cesc will have it all to do and the set piece disparity looks massive to me with 5 or 6 aerial threats for Gio vs 2 for Bleezy.

By contrast, Gio's flaws look nowhere near as bad. Adebayor was inconsistent but a creative 9 who went 34 in 62 his final two years at Arsenal, Tevez is the United one instead of the Citeh one for reasons I don't follow (still good, less lethal) and Vertonghen is not Cole or Evra out there but is at least big and athletic and did play well for Spurs there most of the time.
 
A couple of key points:
  • Presuming our midfield runs the game (a fair assumption to make given the calibre of Vieira, Gerrard and Makelele), the key question is how good is Bleezy's team off the ball? Beyond the defence and Mascherano, I am struggling to think of anyone who is going to make a genuine contribution there. Fabregas is questionable in a double-pivot, his defensive positioning isn't brilliant and you'd generally want his creative bounty as the 1 in a 4-2-1-3. Van der Vaart is very gifted, had considerable potential at a young age, but is frankly weak, lazy and a passenger off the ball.
  • The difference for us when we don't have the ball is that we have an all-round midfield that will work relentlessly to support the defence and recover possession. Even someone like Tevez in our front three knows his defensive responsibilities and is likely to put in a good shift. We don't just leave the back four to get on with it which, Mascherano apart, seems to be the case for the opposition.
 
Gio said:
A couple of key points:
  • Presuming our midfield runs the game (a fair assumption to make given the calibre of Vieira, Gerrard and Makelele), the key question is how good is Bleezy's team off the ball? Beyond the defence and Mascherano, I am struggling to think of anyone who is going to make a genuine contribution there. Fabregas is questionable in a double-pivot, his defensive positioning isn't brilliant and you'd generally want his creative bounty as the 1 in a 4-2-1-3. Van der Vaart is very gifted, had considerable potential at a young age, but is frankly weak, lazy and a passenger off the ball.
  • The difference for us when we don't have the ball is that we have an all-round midfield that will work relentlessly to support the defence and recover possession. Even someone like Tevez in our front three knows his defensive responsibilities and is likely to put in a good shift. We don't just leave the back four to get on with it which, Mascherano apart, seems to be the case for the opposition.
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Fabregas is playing the same role as he does for Chelsea, alongside a defensively minded midfielder like Matic. This was a title winning side, and Fabregas was quite clearly in the 2 rather than the tip of that midfield and was a pivotal player for Chelsea. If Tevez is aware of his defensive responsibilities, then so is Sanchez. The difference being that Arbeloa is stronger defensively and less inclined to go forward than Petrescu, which might leave you exposed to Hazard taking up that space.

I'd question who in your midfield is going to control possession since yours will supposedly run the game. You have legs to get the ball, but then I don't see a fluidity that can keep the ball and work together. Instead it seems quite focused on Makelele/Vieira win the ball and turn it over to a player who can come up with an individual moment of brilliance. My team is capable of keeping the ball, Cesc, VDV, Hazard and Sanchez are all very good under pressure and can keep the ball moving.
 
Vieira played his best football alongside grafter types like Gilberto and Petit. He doesn't need a playmaker next to him because he's an excellent and efficient passer, recognised for his early balls into the feet of strikers.

Ian Wright said:
“It's been a while since we've had a midfield player who looks at the front man's run first and then looks at other options. He makes dream passes forward and he's already put me in several times”
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In Makelele and Gerrard his partners are considerably upgraded here.

Basically our midfield is a man-for-man upgrade on Mourinho's 4-3-3 Chelsea trio that achieved record points in the Premier League.
 
Aguero hits the last minute goal (I can't bring myself to put a video up of the QPR goal...) to tie it all up. 14-14. Penalties again :wenger:
 
Gio said:
Vieira played his best football alongside grafter types like Gilberto and Petit. He doesn't need a playmaker next to him because he's an excellent and efficient passer, recognised for his early balls into the feet of strikers
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But he had Bergkamp in front of him. You are really lacking creativity
 
Had i seen this earlier i would have voted Gio. Sry :wenger:
 
antohan said:
I was leaning towards @bleezy last night and decided to (over)sleep on it.
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Draw was written in the stars. Penalties, eh? Two amaaaaaaazing keepers. If someone has a better keeper (or penalty saver) that should really count for something when it goes to penalties. Maybe + 0,5 advantage. What's been discussed?

Slippy skys it and bleezy wins i reckon.
 
The Stain said:
Draw was written in the stars. Penalties, eh? Two amaaaaaaazing keepers. If someone has a better keeper (or penalty saver) that should really count for something when it goes to penalties. Maybe + 0,5 advantage. What's been discussed?

Slippy skys it and bleezy wins i reckon.
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I have an idea for that. It involves having three tiers of keeper quality: awesome, solid, wtf?

It would still rely on randomness, but mathematically (roughly off the top of my head):

- Awesome would have an additional 100% chance of saving at least one penalty and 50% chance of saving at least two
- Solid would have an additional 50% chance of saving at least one penalty
- Wtf? would rely entirely on what his manager and rival picks are

We've seen wtf? keepers save 2-3 ppenos before, that could still happen, you would just give those with better keepers higher probabilities.

Of course, penos would take ages to execute because you will need to be a rocket scientist to run them. Not really, well, sort of...
 
I'd like to remind you that there used to be a time when a tie was decided by a common voter's opinion, this is a decent enough method, let's not get greedy. :D
 
Ah we were in front for 89 minutes of that match. Some comeback. Sent my penalties to GS.
 
antohan said:
I have an idea for that. It involves having three tiers of keeper quality: awesome, solid, wtf?

It would still rely on randomness, but mathematically (roughly off the top of my head):

- Awesome would have an additional 100% chance of saving at least one penalty and 50% chance of saving at least two
- Solid would have an additional 50% chance of saving at least one penalty
- Wtf? would rely entirely on what his manager and rival picks are

We've seen wtf? keepers save 2-3 ppenos before, that could still happen, you would just give those with better keepers higher probabilities.

Of course, penos would take ages to execute because you will need to be a rocket scientist to run them. Not really, well, sort of...
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Easy enough to sort out. Get a draft committee up and running and then agree keeper rankings once the 16 have been chosen.
 
@Gio make sure you post your 10k post in this thread. If you win you get the celebratory tag "Slippy won it for me". If you lose it'll be "The slipster strikes again".
 
Physiocrat said:
But he had Bergkamp in front of him. You are really lacking creativity
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That's a fair point. But Bergkamp started barely half of the games for the Invincibles in 2003/04. There's an underestimation of how good on the ball the likes of Keane, Vieira and Gerrard were because their physical and defensive attributes were so compelling.

MJJ said:
Dont like Gio's attack, adebayor upfront and tevez as a winger/inside forward despite him having an edge in midfield
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Tevez wide as part of a front three worked really well for United's last great team.
 
Gio said:
Tevez wide as part of a front three worked really well for United's last great team.
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For some reason I got stuck watching youtube videos of the 3 of them for ages last night. Whatever they achieved before or went on to achieve after, I don't think any of them ever played in a setup that saw better football than that 2007/08 spell.

Ronaldo may have gone on to be a better player, but he has never played with 2 guys who just all got each other so well. It was beautiful football to watch.
 
Gio said:
That's a fair point. But Bergkamp started barely half of the games for the Invincibles in 2003/04. There's an underestimation of how good on the ball the likes of Keane, Vieira and Gerrard were because their physical and defensive attributes were so compelling.


Tevez wide as part of a front three worked really well for United's last great team.
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Our attack was more of a lopsided 4-4-2 though, with park/hargreaves playing wider then gerrard here so he wasnt that responsible for width as he would be here.
 
MJJ said:
Our attack was more of a lopsided 4-4-2 though, with park/hargreaves playing wider then gerrard here so he wasnt that responsible for width as he would be here.
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Granted. But most 4-3-3s and 4-2-3-1s are pretty lopsided (I've been banging that drum for a long time @antohan).

As Michael Cox puts it:

"The reasons Ferguson could afford such a loose shape in the final third were that (a) Ronaldo, Rooney and Tevez were all highly versatile, happy to play either on the wing or through the middle, (b) The three had a wonderful understanding in and around the penalty area, meaning Ferguson could effectively hand out three ‘free roles’ and sit back and witness the results and, crucially (c) All three understood their defensive responsibilities."
 
Gio said:
Tevez wide as part of a front three worked really well for United's last great team.
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You are off on this one. More often than not, Rooney and Ronaldo veered wide while Tevez attacked through the middle.
 
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